Bigger, Faster, Stronger, but less durable?

[Carolina Speed]

The subject of the durability and stamina of today's football players/ athletes came up on the NFL thread, so I will begin by saying as I did on the NFL thread that there is no doubt that today's athlete's are bigger, faster, and stronger. However, they seem to be more prone to injury and lack of stamina. Why is this?

I'm not quite sure, but there is no doubt a wide variety opinions on the subject. Having been around and witnessed the professional training of a lot of young athletes, I've seen many a young kids train in a way I wasn't familiar with when I was a young athlete. I know kids who are serious are working and training harder today than they did in my day. Maybe children today are starting earlier, too early. Maybe because kids are bigger and stronger today, it puts more stress on the joints and ligaments that don't get any stronger. I don't think there's a way to make ligaments stronger if there is, it's not working, because kids are tearing ACL's doing layups before basketball games.

One prominent surgeon told me it's just bad luck when an athlete tears an ACL. It's not early or overtraining. It just happens. It's just a part of participating in athletics.

I have my own thoughts but, I'd be interested in your opinions.

 

[Awake in America]

Great topic! I don't know that there is one answer that will completely satisfy the question. I agree that today's athletes seem to get injured more often, and sit out longer. This is against the other fact that modern medicine fixes in a year or less what used to be career ending injuries. Personally, I think it has to do with training, drugs, and money.

1) Money

Professional athletes make so much money that they are cautious about their futures. This seems like a bigger issue in baseball, where missing 10 games is not a big deal. They are also less worried about being cut, have a lot more rights than the players of old, and are just more pampered in general. I have to admit that I might sit out to make sure my next performance was good if that much money was on the line. There is also a cultural difference between now and several decades ago: toughing it out isn't valued as much. That might not be a bad thing. I'd rather have a healthy Gerhart in the game than a hobbled Peterson.

2) Drugs

At the college and professional levels a huge percentage are juiced, not to mention chock-full of painkillers. The North Dallas Forty blew the lid off of drugs in the NFL 4 decades ago, and I can't imagine it's gotten better since then. Steroids and HGH make muscles bigger and stronger, but their effect on connective tissue is minimal at best. A guy who would naturally weigh 215 roids up to 255, and maybe his tiny little ankles and knees can't handle the extra weight when it's accelerating. I can tell a difference when running at 222 vs. 212.

3) Training

In my humble opinion a good number of players use training paradigms that hurt them in the long and short runs. Olympic-type lifts like power cleans, snatches, and other fast movements are thought to "build explosiveness" or "power" or something. Players do explosive movements against resistance in the weight room, in an attempt to emulate movements on the field. It's just asking for injuries. Backs and shoulders take a huge beating in this idiocy. Power is a function of strength, which is what you go to the weight room to develop. Explosive or functional training is about as logical as voodoo. Moving a weight fast will not make you more "explosive", but it will get you hurt, or set up a nice injury for later. Also, most players are horribly overtrained, which is another great way to get hurt. They are training up to 5 days per week, sometimes more. Even with steroids and HGH, that is way too much time in the weight room. That time should be spent on skill training, which might actually help prevent injuries by doing the actual movements one does on the football field (not kinda sorta but not really the same movements against resistance). One weight room injury should be enough to get somebody fired. The Atlanta Falcons implemented "functional training" this year. Looks like that hasn't really paid off.

The last point I will make on the subject concerns race. More pure anecdote, but it certainly looks to me like blacks are a little different from us in a structural sense. Their ankles and knees seem to be far more narrow on average, and I say this as a white guy with fairly skinny knees. The lower leg differences are striking. It's one of the reasons for their more apparent muscular "definition" on average. Smaller joints make the muscles look bigger, but maybe those joints don't absorb impact as well. It's also worth noting that dark skin and narrow joints make an individual look stronger than he really is.

Another racial point is one of bone strength. I know blacks are supposed to have somewhat greater bone density, but I wonder about brittleness, especially at those narrow joints. A huge number of blacks are lactose intolerant, their race having only recently been taught to domesticate animals. I wonder about calcium intake. Just food for thought, since blacks make up such a greater percentage of pro athletes than they used to.

Again, great topic. I don't know the answer(s), but it sure does seem like today's players get hurt more often.

 

[davidholly]

Blue star syndrome.

 

[Toby Hillis]

It's a mix of drugs/steroids/modern food, more focused training, and the fact that these bigger faster athletes are hitting you ie a 250 lb kid with 4.6 speed running into you vs a 180 lb kid with 5.1 speed. That, at least in my opinion, is the crux.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Blue star syndrome.

Blue star syndrome, what?

 

[davidholly]

Blue star syndrome, what?

Blue stars burn brighter than any other star but die out quicker in proportion to their brightness.

 

[Don Wassall]

Are NFL Combine results improving in the last decade or so? I haven't noticed it.

The crappy hormone and drug ingested food and water is a factor, along with the deliberate taking of drugs, in accounting for the larger size of Americans generally. Americans used to have a natural strength gained from growing up doing outdoor work and playing outdoors. Men were leaner and tougher and ate much more nutritious food. Stamina and durability are important elements when measuring overall strength. Mickey Mantle and Jimmie Foxx would be considered smallish now, but can anyone doubt their strength?

And Americans of previous generations were just as fast or faster than all but today's juiced up Jamaicans and black Americans. A subjective observation, yes, but are White Americans in particular faster now than when they were often on Olympic teams and otherwise recognized for their speed?

Bigger, faster, stronger? I'd say fatter for sure, but even the size has leveled off over the past 20 years; the NFL is never going to have lots of 400 pound linemen in the way that 300 pounders were once considered freakish.

With the decline in all aspects of what was once "the American Way," sports is no exception. Football, baseball and basketball players from the past would more than hold their own against the best from today's artificial Caste System dominated sports.

 

[Awake in America]

Another factor that might be worth mentioning is the schedule. They play more regular season, post season, and preseason games now than they did 40 years ago. Also, there are more teams, so that means more total injuries. This might be weighed against less total practice time spent hitting, but more overall training. I'm not sure how that would balance out.

As for players, particularly linemen, ballooning up, Art Donovan used to say that he and others could easily have weighed 300 lbs, but they wouldn't let them eat. Making weight was once a big deal, with fines and other discipline.

 

[white is right]

Another factor that might be worth mentioning is the schedule. They play more regular season, post season, and preseason games now than they did 40 years ago. Also, there are more teams, so that means more total injuries. This might be weighed against less total practice time spent hitting, but more overall training. I'm not sure how that would balance out.

As for players, particularly linemen, ballooning up, Art Donovan used to say that he and others could easily have weighed 300 lbs, but they wouldn't let them eat. Making weight was once a big deal, with fines and other discipline.

Yes coaches used to chide fat player during training camp for being fat. Except for rare instances these days it virtually never happens. Obviously Shanny's butting heads with obese oaf Albert Haynesworth is a recent famous example. Back 20+ years ago Ditka had a daily soap opera with the Fridge when he entered training camp at 350+ pounds.

 

[Carolina Speed]

Are NFL Combine results improving in the last decade or so? I haven't noticed it.

The crappy hormone and drug ingested food and water is a factor, along with the deliberate taking of drugs, in accounting for the larger size of Americans generally. Americans used to have a natural strength gained from growing up doing outdoor work and playing outdoors. Men were leaner and tougher and ate much more nutritious food. Stamina and durability are important elements when measuring overall strength. Mickey Mantle and Jimmie Foxx would be considered smallish now, but can anyone doubt their strength?

And Americans of previous generations were just as fast or faster than all but today's juiced up Jamaicans and black Americans. A subjective observation, yes, but are White Americans in particular faster now than when they were often on Olympic teams and otherwise recognized for their speed?

Bigger, faster, stronger? I'd say fatter for sure, but even the size has leveled off over the past 20 years; the NFL is never going to have lots of 400 pound linemen in the way that 300 pounders were once considered freakish.

With the decline in all aspects of what was once "the American Way," sports is no exception. Football, baseball and basketball players from the past would more than hold their own against the best from today's artificial Caste System dominated sports.

I'm not sure that answered my question but,

Yes Don it seems a lot kids these days are fatter than 20-30 years ago and NFL studies show the average football player at most positions aren't much taller, but at most positions such as DL, OL, TE, QB, and RB they are on average about 20-40 pounds heavier than 20-30 years ago depending on the position. QB's are about 1 inch taller and 20 pounds heavier. RB's aren't much taller in fact in some cases RB' are shorter, but are about 20 pounds heavier. Linemen are obviously heavier to the tune of about 40-50 pounds!

However, when I talk to friends and acquaintances, they all say their children are bigger and better/faster athletes than they were in most cases. I was a pretty decent athlete in school, but both my sons were much better. Bigger and faster and both made all-state in their prospective sports, One a wrestler, the other in football. The best I did was all-conference.

However, my question was do we see more injuries today because of the kids being heavier/stronger? I'm always stronger in my weight lifting when I'm heavier, when I lose weight I get weaker.

Some people say, here at CF, that if a player gains weight, he will lose some speed, yes maybe at the pro level and maybe college, but that's not necessarily true for kids who train to be fast and strong. I've observed kids training from 12 years old to 16, adding 10-15lbs. to their frame each year while taking a tenth off their forty time each year.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, is the type of training coupled with the food, supplements, better training, etc. making kids heavier/stronger hurting their joints and ligaments thus causing more ligament/joint damage?. Are we seeing more ligament injuries without contact than we used to? Wes Welker was just making a cut and tore his ACL/MCL. One trainer told me that the ligaments/joints haven't kept pace with the size and strength of the kids muscle development. Or is it as one doctor said it's just bad luck? Some athletes will escape injury, while others won't.

 

[Lew]

bigger faster stronger is just a media myth used to diminish white athletes of the past and to promote the idea of black athletic supremacy. Speed, strength, and size are all mostly about genetics. As far as I'm aware we haven't gone though any evolutionary changes in the last 40 years in order for that to happen. If players weigh more today it's extra fat. Even quarterbacks are carrying a lot of extra fat. Most of them would be under 200 if not for their mid sections.

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

It is possible that, due to more advanced nutrition and training methods, athletes may grow physically larger than athletes of maybe fifty years ago, but there's probably a stereotype that today's athletes are giants, where as athletes of the past [cough, Whites, cough] must have been some kind of dwarf species.

NO.

The average height of a man today is what, five feet nine? What was it in 1940? Exactly. Between feet seven and five feet nine. Big whoop. In other words, there is very little statistical difference.

Then there's the idiotic claim that Blacks grow taller than Whites, which is just stupid. Average White heights are actually greater than the heights of other races.

People act like there's been some kind of genetic revolution in sports when really it's just people pumping more iron and horking down more PEDs.

People act like today's NFL team would somehow slaughter a team from, say, the 1960s (when the roster might have been more than 80% White).

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the team.

BUT—One thing's certain. A White defensive back from the 1960s would basically break a modern Quarterback's neck and would be like WTF? when the quarterback (White or Black) starts whining like a pussy.

And, A White running back or Fullback (or, Black, whatever) from the 1960s would stiff arm a defender and would act like the world had gone mad if he gets called for some kind of a foul.

And boxing? Forget it.

Put your life savings on Dempsey versus some ****** like David Haye. Dempsey would eat his soul. Which is another way of saying, he would murder him.

 

[Awake in America]

Butkus was plenty big at 245 to patrol the middle today. I think at 6'8", 275 lbs. (at least) that Doug Atkins would hold his own these days at DE. Lambert and Ham might be a bit light for OLB at 225, assuming that was accurate. Nitschke at 235 wouldn't be small in the middle. Ray Oldham at 6'0, 200 would be a big corner, or a normal safety. Pretty much all of the good QBs of the 70s were at least 6'2". Tarkenton was an exception, much like Brees and Wilson are. Starr, Unitas, and Griese were all 6'1".

It's the linemen that are so much bigger. The skill position players aren't much different in terms of height and weight. Tight end is an exception. There are some monsters playing that position today. I can't really find a Gronk in the past. He's three inches taller and at least 30 lbs. heavier than Ditka was in his prime. Bavaro is the closest I get get, and he was playing less than 20 years ago, and Gronk is still a good bit bigger.