grandmaster
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Chet Holmgren strong favorite for NBA Defensive Player of the Year
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Carolina Speed
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Thanks grandmaster. I don't feel like we've discussed Holmgren as much as we should. I would say Austin Reaves when healthy is the third best white player, but it's certainly close and open to debate. Also, the 7'2 Portland Trailblazer Donovan Clingan is coming on. He scored 24 and had 12 boards last night. He's leading the league in offensive rebounds. Almost 5 per game. Clingan certainly not a top 5 white player yet, but he's another in a list of American born white players playing well in the NBA.
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Don't forget Lauri Markannen who is averaging 28 points per game and he made the NBA All Star Game just two years ago.
Carolina Speed
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I did. TY for reminding me. He had 35 last night!
Phall
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It's inadvertently now a more interesting conversation topic. Who are the best white players in the league?
Jokic and Doncic are pretty clearly in their own class.
I'd also put Austin Reaves as the top player in the tier below them. Ask this another way: in a very black league, is there a player you would sit down just to watch specifically? Would you pay for tickets to an inconsequential regular season game? I think Reaves is pretty close to this threshold.
Lauri Markannen, Josh Giddey, and perhaps Domantas Sabonis are a half-tier below, in my opinion, as are the rookies Cooper Flagg and Kon Knueppel. Tyler Herro was at this level, but he hasn't been healthy or in-form for awhile.
Where do you slot in Chet Holmgren? He's currently 47th in scoring average, 21st in rebounds, 5th in blocks per game, and has elite secondary metrics (like opposing FG%) for a strong DPoY candidacy. He's also a pretty clear "2A" or "2B" offensive option on a very good team. If Gilgeous-Alexander is sitting out, would you tune in expecting to see Holmgren fill up the stat sheet? I'm not sure I would.
Anyway, a fun, banal little thought experiment. Also worth noting that Chet is so high in the DPoY betting odds because Wembanyama is having another Mr. Glass season (second in three years).
Jokic and Doncic are pretty clearly in their own class.
I'd also put Austin Reaves as the top player in the tier below them. Ask this another way: in a very black league, is there a player you would sit down just to watch specifically? Would you pay for tickets to an inconsequential regular season game? I think Reaves is pretty close to this threshold.
Lauri Markannen, Josh Giddey, and perhaps Domantas Sabonis are a half-tier below, in my opinion, as are the rookies Cooper Flagg and Kon Knueppel. Tyler Herro was at this level, but he hasn't been healthy or in-form for awhile.
Where do you slot in Chet Holmgren? He's currently 47th in scoring average, 21st in rebounds, 5th in blocks per game, and has elite secondary metrics (like opposing FG%) for a strong DPoY candidacy. He's also a pretty clear "2A" or "2B" offensive option on a very good team. If Gilgeous-Alexander is sitting out, would you tune in expecting to see Holmgren fill up the stat sheet? I'm not sure I would.
Anyway, a fun, banal little thought experiment. Also worth noting that Chet is so high in the DPoY betting odds because Wembanyama is having another Mr. Glass season (second in three years).
grandmaster
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I'd say Chet is already the best white American since Kevin Love, but he's still only 23, so more likely than not he overtakes Love, which would make him the best white American since Stockton. Will he ever overtake Stockton? Probably not, but you never know!
Freethinker
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I like Chet but I don’t agree with that. You could argue that Cooper Flagg is already better as a recently turned 19 year old rookie. This will become more apparent by the end of the season and Flagg is getting more comfortable at this level by the week. Chet is in his 3rd year and basically at Flagg’s stats. I’d also put Austin Reaves ahead too. He’s been great as Luka’s 1B and shows his superstar potential when Luka missed time. He’s got 51, 44 and 41 point games under his belt this year.
So my ranking of American born NBA guys:
Flagg
Reaves
Holmgren
Knueppel
After that big 4 it gets murky. Sabonis (Portland born)? Pritchard? Herro? Buzelis (Chicago born)? Kessler? Gillespie (breakout player)? Shepard (upside)?
Phall
Master
Glad you mentioned Gillespie, as I was thinking of tacking him onto my list. Tons of collegiate accolades, but like Reaves, his NBA racial apprenticeship started with going undrafted (along with missing a year to injury). He's now a starting point guard, averaging 14-4-5 on a Suns team that's firmly above the playoff line. He will need another leap to get any all-star consideration, but he's technically ahead of schedule already.
Mentioning the best white Americans, we should include long-range savant Duncan Robinson, who has a laundy list of records to his name already. As much as Holmgren is a defensive specialist, Robinson is that same superlative class in terms of shooting. He's added enough to the rest of his game be a starter on championship-caliber teams. No All-White team could possibly omit him!
