Respect foir Jim Jeffries

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Guest, Dec 26, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Guest Newbie

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    Whenever I hear people talking about the great white champions of the past, just about all the attention goes to Marciano and Dempsey. I honestly think the great Jeffries belongs right up there with those two.


    Its kind of sad that the only recollection we have of Jeffries is him being Ko'd by Jack Johnson, almost no one in the mediatakes into account the unfair circumstances of this fight. Jeffries loss to Johnson was his first fight in the six years after he retired. He was way past his prime and had to lose over 100 pounds to make weight(he had gluttonned to over 300 while in retirement).


    It is absolutely no different from the massacre that an overweight, 39 yeard old Muhammad Ali took from Larry Holmes, yet no one would dare say Holmes was better than Ali. Some people wont even give Marciano credit for destroying an older Joe Louis, yet Johnson'svictory over Jeffriesis hailed by all to be the defining momentof Johnson's career. Complete media bias imo. In truth Jeffries may have been among the greatest ever and with his exceptional size I reckon he would still be a force in todays division.


    Check out this link to see the truelegend of the Boilermaker, Jim Jeffries including his initial challenge to fight Jack Johnson in a "cellar match", which Johnsonsmartly refused(this was back when Jeffries was still in his prime).


    http://coxscorner.tripod.com/jeffries.htmlEdited by: Guest
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Newbie

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  3. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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    Yeah, Johnson beat an old guy who wasn't in decent fighting shape to be the first black champion. Big deal! Heavyweight boxing was in a slump when "the smiling Negro" won the title. It was in a slump until Johnson got the smile wiped off his face by Jess Willard, the first real heavyweight to fight Johnson during his "reign." Johnson made a living fighting middleweights during between 1909-1914. Willard's win led to the Jack Dempsey era, which was a great one as far as heavyweights went. Johnson was in the right place at the right time, and nothing more. The fact that he was black is of little importance. Edited by: Colonel_Reb
     
  4. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

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    From the first link posted above.


    In 1904, when Jeffries was in his prime, Jack Johnson met with him trying to pressure Big Jeff into a title shot. Jeff, knowing the politics of the time, drew the color line. But he told Johnson in dead seriousness, "There's a cellar in the place. 'Tell you what I'll do. I won't meet you in the ring because you got no name and we wouldn't draw flies. But I'll go downstairs with you and lock the door on the inside. The one who comes out with the key will be the champ." Johnson refused and walked out (see McCallum p 12). That's the kind of rugged man Jeffries was though, a real fighter. A boxer, a wrestler, a street-fighter. He could do it all.


    In a survey of old-timers, conducted by John McCallum, Jeffries was ranked as the #1 All-Time Heavyweight (McCallum 1975 p 322). Nat Fleischer ranked Jeffries at #2. Charley Rose ranked him at #5. Historian Tracy Callis rates him # 1 on his all time heavyweight list. Cox's Corner rates him at # 8.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Newbie

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    Too true, Jeffries was the epitome of brawler, however,I disagree with those who say hed be world champion if he boxed today, because if he were alive today he would be in the UFC or PRIDE. He wanted to get the ultimate fighting experience.


    Another article of interesting reading regarding Murry Woroner's computer simulated fights which pitted the best heavyweights from 1900-1969 in a tournament based on their styles. Think you'd be intersted to know who defeats Ali and who went on to face each other in the finals.Im not agreeing with this, it is just a simulation and not realitybut its a damn good interesting read.


    http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/3107/ali-marci ano-computer-fight-live-dvd/
     
  6. bigman

    bigman Guru

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    Dont know how Jeffries does not make any and every top 5 list of heavyweight greats of the gloved era... it is a no brainer... I usually like Bert Sugars analysis but in his top 10 list recently he really displayed horible judgement in leaving Jeffries off that list... to think that he had Ezzard Charles and Gene Tunney and no Jeffries ... that is a total shame....
     
  7. White_Savage

    White_Savage Mentor

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    Yes, Jeffries was a true great, in every sense of the word. Like you guys say, with his toughness, strength, and wrestling ability, he'd probably kill every other boxing champion who ever lived in NHB fighting, if not in regular boxing.

    Interestingly, Jeffries could run 100 yards in about 10.5 seconds. Isn't that interesting? White men are naturally slow and just physically can't go below sub 10, that is the "official explanation". Yet this 217 lbs. built like a bull HW boxer ran it in 10.5 secs in the 1890s.
     
  8. Colonel Callan

    Colonel Callan Guru

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    Jeffries ran fast back in the days when whites weren't told they couldn't
    run.

    I agree that if he were to come along today, he'd be in the UFC, Pride,
    King of the Cage, some form of NHB fighting to truly find out where he
    stood. Some of the praise heaped on Johnson in "documentaries" is
    appalling. His win over an old and rusty Jeffries is not one for the annals.
    Jeffries did in fact make a career of fighting small men (middleweights)
    and had trouble any time he fought a man his size - btw some people
    claim Victor McLaglen (the actor) gave him a horrible time in an
    exhibition. Stanley Ketchel, the middleweight champ, sat Johnson down.
    Yes, Johnson came back and crunched him, but that was with Johnson
    being almost 50 lbs heavier. Johnson claimed there was an agreement
    between the two not to hurt each other, but Ketchel surprised him, blah
    blah blah. Blacks always have an excuse - and are let use it without
    question. Look at the baloney about Johnson "tossing" the fight to
    Willard. Johnson had trouble with big men, period. But he was the first
    black champ in quite a while (not the first ever) and as the bolshevists
    gained in power in the US, his stature in history rose accordingly.
     

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