Jimmer Fredette

Discussion in 'NBA' started by JReb1, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. JReb1

    JReb1 Mentor

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    <h2 ="title">Jazz coveting BYU's Fredette?</h2>BYU's Jimmer Fredette has worked out for the Indiana Pacers already, but it seems unlikely he'll still be available when Indy has its pick at No. 15. The Utah Jazz, however, have the No. 3 and No. 12 picks and ESPN has it that there is a chance Fredette could be selected with that second pick.

    "The
    Jazz are seriously looking at Kentucky's Brandon Knight and UConn's
    Kemba Walker with the No. 3 pick in the draft," ESPN reports. "If they
    take either player, it's highly unlikely they'd draft Fredette at No.
    12. If they decide to go with someone like Enes Kanter or Jan Vesely at
    No. 3, then Fredette will be in play at No. 12, according to sources."

    ESPN
    notes that a lot depends on a two-day visit by Jazz officials to
    Chicago that starts June 3 with Kanter. If all goes smoothly, Kanter
    will then slot in for the first selection and Fredette in at No 12. If
    it doesn't, the site reports that the Jazz will likely be picking two
    other players.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Jazz-coveting-BYU-s-Fredette-?urn=nba-359237&amp;active_dimension=carousel_ept_sports_rumors&amp;ysp_frm_woah=1

    I would love to see Jimmer end up in Indiana or Utah.
     
  2. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    You beat me to it, JReb. I'd love to see him end up on the Jazz. They will give him an opportunity.
    This is a quote from NBAdraft.net. Apparently Jimmer is one of the most athletic guards in this draft class.

    Still, with their impressive numbers aside, Jimmer Fredette was a star amongst athletic tests. His 10.42 agility was third fastest in the combine. Jimmer also posted a beastly 14 reps, showed nice speed and while his jumping numbers were slightly below average, Jimmer fans were ecstatic with his combine showing. Edited by: whiteathlete33
     
  3. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    I would be happy if Fredette fell to the Pacers at 15. It would be awesome to see him fit in on that team, and join Hansbrough, McRoberts, Dunleavy, and Foster.
     
  4. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    I remember when Gordon Hayward got drafted by Utah. Some scouting sites and DWF's were making it sound as if the Jazz only draft white guys. If they draft Jimmer I expect to hear a lot of that.
     
  5. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    I want to see him in Utah. They are one of the only teams that would allow him to become a superstar. They would give him the control of the team and he would get to be one of their leading scorers on the team.
     
  6. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    I absolutely love this comment from someone on NBAdraft.net. Obviously not a DWF. Maybe a castefootball member?




    The stigma of the unathletic white american basketball player is alive and well. It doesn't matter if you're only 6'2" and lead the country in scoring, break ankles with your crossover, cut through double teams like butter constantly, or finish over the bigs with circus shots in the lane, or win player of the year. You'll never hear a sports announcer say the white american athletes are fast or athletic. What you'll hear instead is mind boggling nonsense like, "he's not fast, but he's quick." Or "he makes up for his lack of athleticism (whiteness) by being crafty". Just listen for it the next time you watch someone like Aaron Craft at OSU play. He's lightning quick but he's a white american, so you'll get to hear every excuse in the book from the announcers as to why he's effective on the court despite his white-american-ness. Sure, there are some white american ballers that fit the slow-white-guy-with-no-hops stereotype perfectly, but it can't be so blindly applied to all.
    <DIV =vote-up-down-widget>0 points
     
  7. bigunreal

    bigunreal Mentor

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    Why is Kemba Walker projected to go #3 overall, while Fredette might possibly go at #12? If both players were black, I think we know who'd be drafted first. Fredette is superior in every way to this overblown media creation. And if Walker were white, I think we'd be hearing quite a bit about his limitations. It's doubtful he'd even be a first round pick. It's even possible that his white skin would cause the jock sniffers and DWFs to worry, as they worry about seemingly every other white player, that he wouldn't be able to "create his own shot" in the NBA.

    But then again, Walker did accomplish something not even the great Dr. J, "Michael," or "Magic" ever did, during the last NCAA tournament. It's quite a feat to take FIVE full steps TWICE in one game, and make it so noticeable that even the fawning, jock sniffing "journalists" have to acknowledge it with a chuckle.
     
  8. pistol pete

    pistol pete Guru

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    Jimmer would fit in well with either the Jazz or the Pacers. He would also be good on the Rockets and on the Kings with Tyreke Evans. I really don't see the hype behind Kyrie Irving. Jimmer is the real deal. I think he would go higher in the draft but the Bucks, Warriors, and Wizards already have young point guards.

    Jimmer has a great shot and actually had about the same amount of assists as Steve Nash did in his last year in college. Jimmer's college stats match up very closely to Nash's college stats.

    I think a Kanter/Jimmer combo would be great for the Cavs. Kanter is a great inside guy and Jimmer is a deep threat. The Jazz can put those guys with Hayward, Devin Harris, and their good power forwards.
     
  9. Vanilla_Sky

    Vanilla_Sky Mentor

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    Actually that sounds a lot like the Bleacher Reporter Andy Bailey. Her'es a link to his profile:
    http://bleacherreport.com/users/347058-andy-bailey

    He's one of the few non-anti white writers on there.
     
  10. Deadlift

    Deadlift Hall of Famer

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    Looking at this Draft, I just get the feeling that the "top" White international players will fall somewhat.


    1 -- I don't consider Kanter as White.. When I saw him on Rivals, I thought he was some kind of South American mix.

    2 -- With the huge "push" that Tristan Thompson is getting, I think that will push a White man OUT of the Top 7 picks. I really think he could be selected as high as 3 or 4, and probably no later than 6th. He's getting the "can't miss" Derrick Favors-vibe from the MSM..

    3 -- Will Valenciunas go in the Top 5? Right now, I have my doubts. If Cleveland keeps the 4th pick, I think there would be a possibility there, as they had Big Z for several years, but I do think that Valenciunas will slip out of the Top 5.

    4 -- Looking at the blacks that are pretty much guaranteed to go at the Top of the Draft.. you got Kyrie, Derrick Williams, Tristan Thompson, probably Brandon Knight. The question is, will "Kemba" be a huge reach, thus preventing a White big from being selected higher?

    On paper, the MSM will sometimes say that you have to take the big, as not everyone has great size, athleticism and skillset-potential.. but knowing the Caste System NBA, they'll treat Kemba as a "Top Bell Curve" phenom.
     
  11. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Jazz dilemma: Is Jimmer worth the gamble?






    <DIV id=byline>
    By LYNN DEBRUIN
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    <DIV id=updated>Posted: Jun. 22, 2011 | 2:00 a.m.
    Updated: Jun. 22, 2011 | 7:57 a.m.
    <DIV id=>


    SALT LAKE CITY -- Jimmer Fredette has his own reality show, a song that's amassed nearly a million YouTube views and a legion of followers.


    He also has a legion of detractors, making him possibly the most polarizing player in this year's NBA Draft.


    Caught in the middle are the Utah Jazz, who with two first-round picks might be in position to pull the trigger at No. 12 and draft the Brigham Young shooter-turned-national sensation.


    Should they? And will they?


    "I don't envy Kevin O'Connor on this one," Steve Kerr, a former NBA player and Phoenix Suns executive, said of the Jazz general manager. "If they don't take him and he blows up and is really good, that's a problem. Now they're the team that screwed up and didn't take Jimmer when he was right in their backyard.


    "If (O'Connor) does take him and Jimmer doesn't pan out, then it's the opposite. You have to follow your gut. If you like him, take him. Either way it's a lot of pressure."


    O'Connor gets to make the final decision Thursday on draft night. It won't be without input from Walt Perrin, the team's vice president of player personnel.


    Perrin knows what it's like to draft a hometown hero.


    He was director of scouting with the Detroit Pistons in 2000 when they held the No. 14 pick. They used it on a guy who grew up in Flint, Mich., and starred at Michigan State, leading the Spartans to the NCAA title a few months earlier.


    But Mateen Cleaves hardly would become the all-everything player that LeBron James was in Cleveland and Derrick Rose is in Chicago. Cleaves lasted one year in Detroit, averaging 5.4 points and 2.7 assists, before bouncing around and out of the league.


    "It didn't work out that well," Perrin said. "There was not that pressure with the team in Detroit as there is right now with Jimmer."


    Perrin doesn't live in Salt Lake City, so he doesn't hear what coach Tyrone Corbin and O'Connor must deal with on a daily basis. But he saw the throng of media that flocked to Fredette's workout last week and hears the endless speculation.


    If the Jazz go big with the No. 3 pick, a guard figures to be a top priority with the No. 12 pick. The guards most often mentioned for picks 10 to 15 are Fredette, Colorado sophomore Alec Burks and Washington State junior Klay Thompson.


    Fredette's squeaky-clean image gives him an advantage over Thompson, who has a black mark on his resume following a March incident in which he was cited for marijuana possession and suspended for Washington State's regular-season finale.


    Burks could be the perfect fit for the Jazz if they want an aggressive scorer with great court vision.


    Neither Burks nor Thompson, both of whom worked out Monday for the Jazz, put up the kind of numbers Fredette did in leading the NCAA in scoring (28.9) and earning national player of the year honors. As for marketing, Fredette has plenty of appeal.


    "Short-term, Jimmer no doubt would sell some tickets and create excitement and intrigue in Utah," said Jeff Robbins, president of the Utah Sports Commission. "But when the day is done, his long-term impact will be based on performance, just like with any business, and whether or not he helps his team win."


    Jazz president Randy Rigby said Fredette has impressed the community.


    On the court are where the concerns are -- with Fredette's defense, his athleticism and ability to play the point.


    Player-turned-analyst Charles Barkley said size hurts Fredette as he can't match up with most shooting guards at 6 feet 2 inches.


    "The big question is (whether) they are going to try to make him into a point or bring him out to add some instant offense," said Barkley, a Fredette fan.


    Ryan Blake, who helps scout players for NBA teams, also is a fan. He said playing with a bull's-eye on his back for so long and in so many important games helped Fredette, as did his workouts.


    "This game is 75 percent mental, and he knows how to do it," Blake said. "Look at (Jason) Kidd and (Steve) Nash. Their IQs are off the charts, and their fundamentals with the ball are so good, they have the ability to continue to play into their years. They never had great speed, jumping ability or explosiveness."


    Fredette is expected to go as high as No. 7 or as low as No. 20. The Jazz aren't about to tip their hand but gave Fredette credit for his accomplishments.


    "He showed us the ability we always have seen in him -- to knock down shots," Perrin said. "He's a good passer, and I think he showed us an ability to initially play defense. ... We've just got to see if he can sustain that in a 24-second time frame and how he can be incorporated into our defense with our teammates if we pick him."


    And what of skeptics who say Fredette won't be a starter?


    "I don't know how many guys in the draft are starters right now," Perrin said. "Can they eventually be? It depends how hard they work, the team makeup and how they get along."


    Kerr laughed thinking that there would be less pressure on Fredette, a New York native, if the Knicks were to select him at No. 17 and he ended up in the big fishbowl that is New York City.


    "One thing I like about him is he's fearless," said Kerr, who compares Fredette to Mark Price and, to some extent, Nash. "As a human being, he seems like the kind of guy who will do whatever it takes to succeed."
    http://www.lvrj.com/sports/jazz-dilemma-is-jimmer-worth-the-gamble-124337874.html
     
  12. foobar75

    foobar75 Master

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    I'm fully rooting for Fredette to prove all his "critics" wrong and become a solid pro in the NBA.

    I was, however, a little more than disappointed that even he has been drinking some of that caste kool-aid. He was on PTI the other day, and the topic turned to false labels and stereotypes. One of the hosts asked Jimmer to name something about himself that would surprise everyone.

    Jimmer's response: "I think I'm deceptively quick."[​IMG]

    I'd much rather hear him say "I'm quick" or "I'm quicker than people realize", but please don't give any legitimacy to those bogus labels that are always attached to White athletes. If the very best White athletes don't dispel these myths, no one else will.
     
  13. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    The proof that the "deceptive" adjective is racist is that no one in the media would ever refer to a black athlete, or any black person for that matter,as "deceptively intelligent."
     
  14. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    I think Jimmer will end up being a very good player in the nba as long as he gets a fair opportunity. The guy is fast, strong, very agile, and he can cut on a dime. His agility, coordination and balance are a thing of beauty to go along with his sharp shooting. The guy has star written all over him. The only thing that can stop jimmer is jimmer. Or for a team to bench him or only play him in spot duty like they did to JJ Reddick. JJ would have been an all star by now if he had started since day one. I personally hope that Jimmer gets better treatment than Morrison and Reddick received.<div></div><div>I can't wait for tommorow. Let the Jimmer Mania begin!!</div>
     
  15. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Morrison could have been good. The injuries mounted and some how when healthy, Morrison believed the caste gods BS about him. He could never rise above what was being said about him. Soon, a self fulling prophecy set in, then game over/career over.
     
  16. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    I have heard white athletes called "deceptively fast" for decades, but never a black athlete.
     
  17. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Sportshistorian, believe it or not some black athletes are called deceptively fast. I've read some scouting reports on SI that used that phrase for blacks. I'd say Jimmer has enough talent to be as good as Mark Price and that's not a bad comparison.

    Edited by: whiteathlete33
     
  18. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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    I'm more than a little disappointed to hear Jimmer Fredette describe himself using such negative ceastean adjectives.I agree with foobar75 on that. Y'all should use a search engine and look up "adjective deceptively fast/quick." Pretty interesting how many people have noticed that it is almost always applied to Whites.
     
  19. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    Thanks for that talking point, excellent! I will use that arguement in future debates that I routinely get into with friends.
     
  20. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    I have a big problem with the way the media has been treating Jimmer. Since he's white they say he only has average athleticism despite having a wicked crossover in college and being able to take virtually any defender off the dribble. His Combine performance was easily one of the best but he still only has "average" athleticism.

    How much you want to make a bet that he'll be under a microscope no matter what team he lands on? If he doesn't produce immediately he'll be hated by the media and DWF's. Then they'll say they should have drafted Kemba Walker instead.



    Edited by: whiteathlete33
     
  21. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    This is a good article to use to make some of our points in the comments section


    <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; : transparent; COLOR: #000000; OVERFLOW: ; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Jimmer Fredette is the Tim Tebow of this NBA Draft Class
    <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; : transparent; COLOR: #000000; OVERFLOW: ; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
    <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; : transparent; COLOR: #000000; OVERFLOW: ; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Jimmer Fredette is Tim Tebow. Both are ripped, good looking white dudes with illustrious college credentials. They both appear to have the same girlfriend, too. That's so weird both guys went for hot blondes; what are the chances?
    <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; : transparent; COLOR: #000000; OVERFLOW: ; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
    <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; : transparent; COLOR: #000000; OVERFLOW: ; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; TEXT-DECORATION: none">


    (That's Jimmer on the left; Tebow below right)


    Yet because they're white we are all pretty sure they're going to suck as pros. Or because they're white we can say with some certainty, "Not very athletic. Makes the most of limited athletic ability. A coach on the floor" or any number of the standard cliches tossed around to describe the white athlete on the high level.


    The Broncos rolled the dice on Tebow as a first rounder, and it may yet hit. I had zero idea on Teboow, but leaned against not because he's white with a weird throwing motion but rather because the statistics say most quarterbacks aren't that good. But he can be a pro. Same as Jimmer. It just depends on your expectations.
    <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; : transparent; COLOR: #000000; OVERFLOW: ; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; TEXT-DECORATION: none">


    "So much of it is system oriented. Personnel oriented. Coaching oriented. It's like that for everybody," TCU men's basketball coach Jim Christian told me today when I called him for Jimmer talk. Christian'steam did a decent job of defending The Jimmer this season. "There are very few guys who can have their same college role in the NBA. It comes down to - who takes them and what is expected?"


    Some NBA team is going to Tebow tonight's NBA draft and take Jimmer in the lottery, thereby creating unrealistic expectations. Lottery guys are expected to be "great". Jimmer will be a pro.
    I saw him play twice in person. My thought was, "Great college player. Loved that he stayed. Insane range. Will be able to eventually learn how to create his own shot. Can't guard a tree."
    <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; : transparent; COLOR: #000000; OVERFLOW: ; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; TEXT-DECORATION: none">


    Jimmer is a two-guard listed at 6-2. That's not good in the NBA world. People keep comparing him to Orlando guard J.J. Reddick. Why? They're both white, and all white guys must be compared to white guys. But Reddick appears a bit stronger, and he's 6-foot-4. That makes a difference. Drop the idea that Jimmer can be a point. By now, you're a point or you're not. Jimmer plays to score, not to distribute.


    "The key is to keep him off the foul line. Once he gets there and starts to get into a rhythm he's really hard to stop," Christian said.


    Where Jimmer is going to be killed is guarding opposing guards. The way the NBA is called these days, Jimmer does not have the lateral quickness to stay in front of these guys. Most guys don't.


    "That is obviously the question for him, and he'll understand that's going to be his ticket," Christian said. "If he can prove he can do that he'll stick. He's going to have to re-invent himself, they all do. The NBA is a different game. Guys that score in college maybe don't defend every possession in college because they know they're going to play 40 minutes."


    Jimmer is a scorer, and he will eventually be able to score some in the NBA. But as Don Nelson once said of all great college scorers in the NBA, "Can you win with them scoring for your team?"
    Basically, is your team going to be any good if this guy is scoring your points?


    "He's not going to be a primary scorer in the NBA. None of these guys are right away," Christian said. "His game is going to have to grow. He will have to adjust and show what he can do. The guys in the NBA, their games grow. One thing I will tell you is the numbers generally translate. If a guy is a shooter, great rebounder or passer in college he can do that in the NBA. The game doesn't lie."


    Which will make The Jimmer a pro. Just not a great one.http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/mac-engel/2011/06/jimmer-fredette-is-the-tim-tebow-of-this-nba-draft-class.html
     
  22. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Here is a paragraph from NBAdraft.net that disproves what the article above claims in regards to his athleticism.

    Jimmer Fredette
    was a star amongst athletic tests. His 10.42 agility was third fastest
    in the combine. Jimmer also posted a beastly 14 reps, showed nice speed
    and while his jumping numbers were slightly below average, Jimmer fans
    were ecstatic with his combine showing.
     
  23. mattharper

    mattharper Guru

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    Good article. You heard it hear first. The NY Knicks are going to trade up to get Jimmer. They need a poiont guard that can shoot like a 2 guard. I just wish they kept David Lee and Gallinari.
     
  24. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Jimmer's defense at BYU wasn't great but many say he had to stay out of fall trouble so maybe that is the reason for it. I sure hope so.
     
  25. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    It's almost Draft time. Less than an hour away. If I have one wish for this draft, it is just for Jimmer to go to the Jazz. He would bring back excitment to a Jazz team that I used to love to watch years ago with Stockton, Malone, Ostertag and Hornacek.Jimmer is just a perfect fit in every way. I really think the Jazz will regret it for the next decade if they don't go out and get this kid.
     

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