Poles leaving Ireland

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Opinions??
By Dara Doyle

Tuesday October 28 2008
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When the European Union expanded eastward in 2004, Ireland opened its doors to workers entering from former communist states to help maintain record economic growth. Now, immigrants are heading for the exit.








The number of people leaving Ireland next year will outstrip those moving to the country for the first time in 14 years, according to Economic and Social Research Institute in Dublin. The biggest exodus will be among the 170,000 workers who arrived the past four years from Poland and other east European states.





''It's a very hard situation,'' said Artur Kawczynski, 30, who lost his factory job in Galway on Ireland's west coast 10 days ago. ''I rang my friends in Poland to ask what job opportunities there are like.''





Immigrants like Kawczynski fed the manufacturing and building booms that helped double the size of Ireland's economy during the past 10 years and made it the most dynamic in western Europe. Now the seizure in credit markets has plunged the country of 4.4 million people into its first recession in two decades, pushing unemployment to an 11-year high. Economic growth remains above 5 percent in Poland.





As many as 30,000 immigrants have already left Ireland over the past year, with a further 35,000 set to exit next year, according to estimates by Jim Power, chief economist at Friends First, a Dublin-based insurer. The economy shrank 0.5 percent in the second quarter and by 0.3 percent in the first.





''People are responding to changes in the economy,'' Power said. ''In a small country like Ireland, where immigrants have made such a major contribution, it's far more visible that in a bigger economy such as the U.K.''








'More difficult'








Poles have changed the face of Ireland. Bars sell Polish beer alongside Guinness; butchers advertise Polish sausages and pork cuts along with Irish beef.





In all, 1.2 million Poles may have moved to the U.K. and Ireland since 2004, according to Warsaw-based Centre for International Relations. Of those, 400,000 may lose their jobs, Krystyna Iglicka, a professor at the think-tank, said.





''When I came to Ireland, it was completely different,'' said Damian Sasiak, 25, who arrived four years ago from Poland. ''I remember when I changed a job three times in a day. It's much more difficult now.'





Sasiak reckons that numbers at the gigs he organizes for Poles have fallen by a third to 350 as people leave. Three weeks ago, Chaplins, a pub in central Dublin, closed the Polish-themed bar it ran on its first floor for two years.








'Collapsed'








At first, the bar, which opened three nights a week, sold Polish beers such as Zywiec and showed Polish soccer internationals was ''flying,'' said George Bourke, manager of Chaplins, which lies close to the banks of the River Liffey.





''As people started to get laid off and going home, business collapsed,'' said Bourke. ''Some nights we would have maybe two people up there.''





Zagloba, a Polish bar across the river from Caplins, stopped serving pierogi, stuffed dumplings, and golabki, cabbage rolls, after sales dropped by about 30 percent in recent months, according to Renata Nowak, its manager.





''Ireland is going down, while Poland is going up,'' said Slawka Gruzewska, 23, an air steward for Dublin-based Ryanair Holdings Plc, at the bar. ''Poland will be the new Ireland.''





In Ireland, immigrants hold 16 percent of jobs, according to Power. One in three catering positions is held by a foreigner, and they account for 16 percent of the construction industry.








Elsewhere








''Jobs are likely to be lost in all these sectors over the next couple of years,'' said Power. ''People are going to go home or try other places where the economy is better.''





Poland's government is targeting average economic growth of 5.1 percent this year and next, boosted by EU investment in roads, consumer spending and building of new offices and apartment blocks. The unemployment rate there has halved to around 9 percent over the last two years.





By contrast, Irish joblessness is rising, led by a 18 percent decline in construction work in September from a year earlier. Irish house completions will fall 45 percent this year, as real estate prices slump, according to Dublin-based Davy, Ireland's largest stockbroker.





Not everyone is planning to leave. Hourly pay in Poland is 3.80 euros per hour, a quarter of the Irish level, according to the IW economic institute in Cologne, Germany.





''There are plenty of jobs in Poland,'' said Piotr Czyzewski, 34, who organizes mortgages for Poles in Ireland who want to buy property at home. ''But the money isn't so good.''





And the slowdown is benefiting at least some Poles in Ireland. Jolanta Czarnecka runs a tourist company in Dublin, taking her compatriots sightseeing all over Ireland.





''My customers say they want to see it now, because they're leaving in two months,'' said Czarnecka, 35, who runs Jolanta's Magic Tours. ''They're going home for Christmas and don't know if they'll ever come back.'' (Bloomberg)

One of the few positivesresulting fromthe bad economy in the U.S. is that more and more Mexicans and other hispanics are going back to their countries of origin, particularly those who were doing construction jobs. In Las Vegas, construction went from long-time boom industry to practically shut down over the past year.Upwards of 80 percentof the construction workers in Vegas are illegals.

Don Wassall said:

One of the few positives resulting from the bad economy in the U.S. is that more and more Mexicans and other hispanics are going back to their countries of origin, particularly those who were doing construction jobs.  In Las Vegas, construction went from long-time boom industry to practically shut down over the past year.  Upwards of 80 percent of the construction workers in Vegas are illegals.  &lt;!-- Message ''"" --&gt;

Click to expand...

I'm seeing more and more such reports, although it's hard to say if this is an increasing trend. I really hope the numbers are high and getting higher. Lots of people indeed are purchasing one way bus tickets by the loads and getting out of here.

Of course, the stories I do see in MSM try to paint a sympathetic picture.

I wonder if this trend continues, could there be a glimmer of hope that the predicted Latino population boom by 2050 may be delayed a few more decades?

Here in Australia we have quite a few young Irish lads that come here for work. A good mate of mine is from Ireland. He married a Australian girl and moved out here about 6 years ago. His accent is so strong, we will be watching Rugby in the backyard and I have to tell him to speak english.
Anyway, he went back to Ireland with the Mrs and his two boys about a year ago. Of course me being me, (in regards to following racial developments in the world)I asked him about Ireland in regards to immigration. He was plenty pissed off. He said there are gangs of Nigerians that prowl the streets of Dublin. They rarely work and from what his family told him, the Nigerians are basically living off the tax money of the real Irish. I see that many Poles have left from the above posted article. I wonder if the truly useless will leave as well.

I know jobs that the benefits class would have done have been done by illegals from Africa. Ie farm labourers. Now that the Irish economy is tanking I wonder if these same people can claim welfare benefits. If they can they won't leave Ireland.

foobar75 said:

Don Wassall said:

One of the few positivesresulting fromthe bad economy in the U.S. is that more and more Mexicans and other hispanics are going back to their countries of origin, particularly those who were doing construction jobs. In Las Vegas, construction went from long-time boom industry to practically shut down over the past year.Upwards of 80 percentof the construction workers in Vegas are illegals. &lt;!-- Message ''"" --&gt;

Click to expand...

I'm seeing more and more such reports, although it's hard to say if this is an increasing trend. I really hope the numbers are high and getting higher. Lots of people indeed are purchasing one way bus tickets by the loads and getting out of here.

Of course, the stories I do see in MSM try to paint a sympathetic picture.

I wonder if this trend continues, could there be a glimmer of hope that the predicted Latino population boom by 2050 may be delayed a few more decades?

Click to expand...

I'm seeing this homeward movement in Utah in some social research I've been over during the last several months. It isn't huge, but it is significant, and its nice to see! I have also learned that quite a few mexican would be illegals have decided not to come over because of the economy. Lets hope it continues.

Aussie i wasn't aware that Ireland had gotten more diverse! I have a feeling that the Irish who have worked so hard to become a nation and be free of Great Britain will not throw away their dream as a free country, to help out the less fortunate.! As for the Nigerians i imagine they areconfined in Irelands big city of Dublin? A while ago i heard the irish had elected a nigerian mayor, thats infuriating!! Hopefully with their economy cooling off they will tighten up their immigrant policies!

I was watching a travel showand they were in Dublin and the host was talking about the diversity of Dublin now. Of course, it 's always viewed as a good thing on these show. There was an Afro-Carribean foodstore or restaurant that was shown.It's too bad even Ireland has to be taken over.


There was a Russian soccer player that was just signed by Arsenal in London and his wife made a comment that the people of London were dirty and scruffy. Maybe she was talking about all the Pakistanis and Indians and Africans in the city. She may not have expected it because she came from ST Petersburyg whichI assume is almost all Russian.

Yes, it'sbad. I visited Ireland in early 80's andnot only wasit all-white, but almost all Celtic-Norman-Nordic White--like it was 600 years ago! I saw zero Blacks or Asians. the economy wasn't booming but it was OK. Not much crime. People were prudent and saved their money (like americans 50 years ago!).


Glad the Poles are leaving. I hope they return to build up their own country. I hope the Nigerians leave!


Basically the current policy of every nation being a mini-UN destroys particularity and the diversity of nations. It makes every nation a welter of races/cultures--there is no theme.

Indeed, I wouldn't see it as a particularly good thing if Ireland became half-Polish. First of all, Ireland maintained its Celtic identity better than any other nation, and it is the only Celtic nation that is truly independent in modern times.

Second, there is no need to "blend" all Euro cultures, as opposed to having unique enclaves. The experiment worked fairly well in America, but there is no need to make a "melting" pot of Europe proper.

I am tired of all the Polish people and Eastern Europeans. They are all over the Chicago area. I am sure many are illegal also. The west won the so called "cold war" and now they get to come an invade the US and Western Europe after they lost. I don't get it.

Europe said "I am tired of all the Polish people and Eastern Europeans. They are all over the Chicago area. I am sure many are illegal also. The west won the so called "cold war" and now they get to come an invade the US and Western Europe after they lost. I don't get it."

Point taken. I also agree that Ireland should remain Irish. The unique European peoples are something worth preserving.
However, I am not sure how bad the Poles in Chicago have become. I support all white brothers and sisters. I welcome Serbs, Croats, Poles, Russians, you name it. At the end of the day, I would happily marry my daughter to a Hungarian that was a atheist who spoke not a single word of English as opposed to a African American who was a Christian (like myself) who spoke English fluently.

Belief systems (i.e. religion) or acquired cultural knowledge (i.e. speaking the same language) vary from one generation to the next. However the bloodline, the white European bloodline is eternal. Therefore I say open your arms to your fellow white brothers in Chicago. Whether they be Irish, German, Russian, Bulgarian, or French. We share the same blood. It is that blood and bone that make us what we are. It is that blood and bone that make us who we are.

I also disagree with you Europe when you said that "The west won the so called cold war".
Our brothers in eastern Europe did win the cold war. Not against us in the west, but more importantly against the same group that has their hands around the very throat of our own people here in "the west".

Besides. Believe me when I tell you I know a little bit about Chicago. If you think the Poles are so bad, try getting a coffee or something on Cicero and Pulaski. I am sure the brutha's will welcome you with open arms.