From Steve B
With the exception of Great Britain, Germany, and Russia, the rest of Europe's track development is light years behind the U.S. For example, one of the top 2 sprinters in Europe is Matic Osovnikar. He was a competitive downhill skier until his late teens. If he would have been discovered in his early teens, he might be one of the top 100m guys in the world.
So does a caste system exist in GB, Germany, Russia and Australia, all of which have excellent development programs. Have you ever heard about the Australian Institutes of sport ? It's the reason Oz wins more medals per capita than any other country. Speaking of talent that never gets discovered, I have to say Africa takes the lead. There's tons of talent there but most of it goes to waste because there are no development programs.
We are not talking about excluding him from the team. Early in their development, the vast majority of white kids are automatically slotted to the longer distance
Any track coaches who read your comments would take such claims as an insult.
A coach would have to be incompetent to slot a sprinter to long distance events. Its basic knowledge that most natural sprinters cannot hack it at long distances. Even switching a person from 100m to 200m demands careful consideration
can think of two right off the top of my head. Trey Griffin (white) was one of the top two 100m sprinters in Texas in 2001, DeBryan Blanton (black) was the other. Both had identical PB of 10.32. Griffin was not offered a track scholarship by any of the major schools, Blanton went to Oklahoma. Griffin played football for SMU, where he rarely saw the field. He ran a little track in the offseason, but SMU dropped its track program. Luckily, he was able to transfer to Texas for his last season of eligibility, but to my understanding, he isn't on scholarship.
Its impossible for anyone who regularly clocks 10.32 or thereabouts to go without being offered scholarships by a big school. Your conspiracy thories are too wild. I refuse to believe that white coaches are this biased against white sprinters. I know there are dozens of white sprinters who get full scholarships have never run below 11.00 seconds. Start by looking at the Notre dame athletics website. Why would ND offere scholarships to white sprinters who have never broken 11.00 sec yet refuse to offer scholarship to one who has run 10.32 ? It makes no sense. My guess is Griffin chose football over track because he thought he had a better chance of making big money.
Matt Bruno was the California 100m and 200m champ, who went on to run for UCLA. After his first year, he was dismissed from the team for violating team rules. Here's where the double standard comes into play. It wasn't disclosed what the violation was, but it wasn't bad enough that he broke any laws. Black athletes can violate team rules, laws, etc, and they are always given a second chance, but no second chance for Bruno.
This is not true. I see black athletes dismissed from teams all the time and often the reasons are never given. If Bruno wanted to resume his track career he could have gone to a Division II school. In track and field its easy to strike it big even if you go to D-II. If Matt really wanted a track career he could have pursued it at another school.
It is not just the coaches or the media, but a mindset of society. The coach won't tell his athlete that he is no good, he will just not slot them to run sprints.
Again most track coaches would take this as an insult. I see whites competing at the spirints all the time. In any case most whites today go to suburban or rural schools that are 95% white so the chances of them being discriminated against are nil. If a coach discriminated against them he would have no one left as the number of blacks in the school are too few.
White savage said
So free-safety, I guess you think genetics is king and that it has been "proven" that Whites just don't the genetics to compete in Track with blacks, at all.
I believe that most of what is written about track on this website amount to wild conspiracy theories and in many cases sour grapes. The real issues are not being addressed. Anyone who thinks young athletes in North America train as hard as their Kenyan counterparts is dreaming. American coaches who have visisted Kenya can attest to this.
Those who visit Kenya and Ethiopia quickly realize why they excel. In fact Dieter Baumann of Germany was the loudest voice is condemning Kenyans for drug use until he went to train in Kenya upon which he
Tell me honestly: How many times have you gone on forums or gone in person to tell Blacks/Liberals to quit whining about "unfairness", that all evidence points to innate differences in mental traits between Whites and Blacks?
I visit so called liberal websites to disprove their wild theories and get the same kind of pillorying I get here.
You guys said it as good or better than I could.Free Saftey is an idiot who is just trying to stir the pot.He knows very little about track.Entines Book "Taboo"is being made out to be the lie that it is.He guaranteed that africans would win every medal from the 100 to the distance events.What happened?Why has the fastest woman in the world been a white woman 2 of the last 3 major championships.Do you not think that it is possible for white men to be competetive again?If so,explain how we were in the past before the c.rights movement.Everything changed and most of the opportunities dried up.There is an uprising and Wariner is only the beginning.What are you going to do when we start winning more than you
I and Entine and we had a debate / shouting match. Suffice to say I disagree with most of his thesis.
Man it gets tedious but I will respond. Citing Rono's world record tear in '78 is just a stupid way to buttress the argument that the Kenyans were so hurt by missing the '76 and '80 Olympics. Saying that East African running blossomed in the late '80s because of increased commercialization ignores the great success that African runners had been having for decades. Bikila winning the marathon in '60 and '64 for example. Wolde, Keino, Jipcho... Then too, there are the hordes of Africans that had been running at American colleges for decades.
You are clearly contradicting yourself. One minute you say that the poor performance of Africans at Helsinki 83 is proof that they must be doping then the next minute you agree that they did produce great runners before 1983.
Bottomline is that having one lousy outing means nothing. Australia hardly won any swimming medals at the 84 olympics. Now they win more swimming medals than anyone else per capita. Why not use the same logic against them ?
I'll be as dismissive of free_safety's naive(cynical?) acceptance of the purity and integrity of international track and field's drug-testing as he is of the "conspiracy theories" of doping and cover-ups. The recent revelations about all the hushed-up drug violations by U.S. track should make anyone suspicious about the honesty of the process. Poor Marion Jones has endured such calumny, her career is ruined and she has never failed a drug test while loudly and proudly proclaiming her innocence; so where are the libel suits? Come on Marion, your character has been impugned! Yeah, right.
No one says drug testing is effective. My point is that the notion that blacks are given a pass is a joke when you consider all the black athletes who have been suspended for dope. If there is indeed a conspiracy to protect blacks then why was Kellie White, Torry Edwards, Marion Jones, Tim Monty and a host of other black runners suspended ? In the USA, in Europe and in Africa. Clearly there is no conspiracy there.
Colonel; said
The joys of dealing with trolls, one doesn't know where to start. Kenyans
have been caught using drugs. Chepchumba was ko'd for EPO, sort of a
sacrifice from Rosa's crew - from his son's crew, excuse me. Daniel
Komen was popped for "excess caffeine", sure. Didn't run to well after
that, no wonder most people think it was more than Starbucks on tap. Of
course, the excuses regarding 'special metabolisms' that make it 'look
like' the athlete was doping come up. Lagat was popped for EPO, but he
ended up with the 'false positive' AND his manager being told by the IAAF
to stop claiming his athlete was fingered unjustly. For all the talk, the
official IAAF reason Lagat was released was for a 'technicality'. Then
there's Ngugi refusing drug tests and getting blasted, Kitur caught on
roids (he was fast 400 meter man). I could go on, but you see the picture.
However, the Africans seem to get off on 'technicalities' or 'extraordinary
circumstances'. Look at the S. African runner Sepeng, he's getting the
extraoridinay circumstances treatment. Thys, the white S. African popped
for the same thing (nandralone) has not had officials rushing to aid
instantly as they did for Sepeng. Why is that? Oh no, it's just paranoia.
1. The fact that Chepchumba was suspsended makes nonsense of the notion that Kenyans are given a pass
2. Lagat was given a reprieve because the B sample tested negative. False positives do happen you know. That's why there is an A sample and a B sample
3. The fact that Ngugi was banned also makes nonsense of the idea that Africans are given a pass or that African remoteness prevents them from being tested. For the record Ngugi never failed and has never failed a test. He was banned because he refused to be tested when 2 strangers showed up at his farm to test him. There was no precedent for this so he felt uneasy about giving a urine sample to people he has never seen ?
4. Kitur was never caught on roids !! I would like to see a link stating he did.
BTW, no one has said all the Kenyans are dirty, and only a fool would
think they are all clean. Most insiders feel that Rosa and Hermens etc. are
working with the best 'responders' to some drugs - which means they
might not be the most naturally talented E. Africans. Couple the large
participation of E. Africans with the almost nil interest in Europe and even
worse in the US, you will see a disparity. However, to think that Rosa,
conveniently leaving cycling during the middle of a drug investigation to
coach Kenyan runners doesn't at least warrant a second look is naive or
shows willful igorance. Hermens reputation as an athlete speaks for
itself. Kostre, well, there's one of those E. Bloc fellas somehow ending up
in Ethiopia.
The exact opposite is true. Only a fool would cast aspersions without any proof. The idea that the whole world knows of Dr Rosa doping Kenyans and everyone has conspired to be silent is utterly ludicrous. What does the world have to gain by hiding Dr Rosa's activities ?
Dieter Baumann of Germany used to be the most outspoken person in claiming that Kenyans used drugs until he visited Kenya upon which he had this to say
"Go to Kenya," he says. "See how they live, how they train. Uncover all their secrets. Then if you still think they might be using drugs, then I will talk to you."
How could anyone really indulge in conspiracy? Too many people would find out. How was Carl Lewis' drug use buried for over 20 years? Drug use he doesn't try to deny anymore. No, no officials conspired to keep
that secret. Nope. Too many people involved, yesiree. Selective enforcement and attention goes on in other sports. Remember the folks in DC making a show about steroid use in MLB. Conveniently, no black
Americans called in - although Bonds and Sheffield figured prominently.
The NFL? A bastion of fairness, real world results and numbers
notwithstanding. Nothing like dealing with trolls. They say whatever they
want or repeat PC dogma without anything to back themselves up. The
TIm Wise school of debate, lie and run. It's the marxist way!
I agree that in the past, the IAAF & USATF conspired to hide positive drug tests. But based on what I see nowdays, I highly doubt that the IAAF would hide positive drug tests especially those of Kenyans. What possible motivation would they have for protecting Dr Rosa ?
Are white kids so easily led? Look around. Maybe look at yourself. Then again, maybe you're one of the leaders.
The current rise of whites in some sports, and the appearance of whites in events for years deemed 'black only' is probably the result of some
kind of subconscious rebellion, wherein some kids just don't care anymore, and partly the result of the inevitable swing of the pendulum when artificial situations are in place. The increased attacks on whites, subtle and not so subtle signify an awareness on the part of the enemies of whites, although their arrogance will never let them admit such.
Kudos to Wariner for his feat. I am a big fan of his. he is excelent but its nothing unique. Just recently there have been some excellent white 400m runners such as Roger Black, & Iwan Thomas. There have been excellent jumpers such as Jonathan Edwards and Heike Dreschler .
If anyone is interested in some more realistic views on why East Africans excel at running and why there was a sudeen surge in performance since the mid 80s then go to this link.
http://www.kenyarunners.com/pages/167372/page167372.html?ref resh=1112199340418
q
Finally the notion that only blacks get away with dope is baseless. What about Kenteris and Thanou ? They came out of nowhere and won the 200m gold and 110 silver in Sydney. Anytime a non contender wins then dissapears for 4 years one has to suspect dope.
Yuliya Nesterenko did the same thing. Came out of nowhere won the 100m then dissapeared. And when she came back she was nowhere near the medal bracket. Something about that does not add up.
Many European sprinters have this tendency to exhibit a sudden spike in performance right around the olympics or worlds followed by a series of dismal performaces. names like Andre Bucher and Borzakovsky come to mind as well.
My point here is that getting away with doping is not confined to black athletes. It seems everyone does it and gets away with it.
Oh and BTW according to coach Hart, Jeremy Wariner was offered a football scholarship by Baylor. So the notion that he was never offered a football scholarship is just more hyperbole
http://www.american-trackandfield.com/news/olympicQnAwariner .html
Edited by: free-safety 
