Caste Free: White Draft Candidates

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Other than Hansbrough; who should go somewhere between pick 3-9 (depending on workout numbers); Rubio should be pick #1 or #2 depending on the team's need. Mullens, Budinger and Aldrich should all be top 10 guys. Calathes and Ogilvy and probably Kyle Singler should be lottery guys. Lee Cummard should go somewhere from pick 14-23, so should, Luke Babbitt, Alex Shved and Nando De Colo (a rare white French prospect). Harangody should go between pick 15-30 (unless he works out significantly better than I expect) Victor Claver should go late first round. Who are the other white guys that should go first round if they come out? I have seen a lot of these guys play (mostly just read about the Euros other than Rubio or watched Youtube highlights if available) but don't know much about Michael Bramos and some lesser known U.S prospects.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[j41181]

Nando De Colo - 1987

French white players are very rare these days, French basketball is very much like USA basketball. I just checked this Frenchy out and he appears to be a gifted scorer, and a great all around player on both ends. His progress has been remarkable so far, and is making lots of noise in the French pro league. For comparison, he seems to be like either Marco Belinelli, Rudy Fernandez, or Manu Ginobili. He must be the best French white baller I've hear in years.

Andrew Ogilvy - 1988

This is the next best Aussie prospect for the NBA. After having solid freshman year, Ogilvy is so far having a difficult sophomore year, either he's suffered an injury, or the focus on offense has gone to some pet project blackie. Either way, I hope he can bounce back later this season, and in his junior and senior years.Edited by: j41181

 

[j41181]

Roeland Schaftenaar - 1988

Now here's a player many of you have not heard of, he's a white Dutchman in his junior year in Oregon State. While his number are far from respectable, he's been getting significant playing time this year, and has put on some amazing numbers this years (26 points, 2-3 3pts, 9 rebs.). His game reminds me more of Dirk Nowitzki, considering he's 6'11 and blond. He must be the best young white Dutch prospect in so many years. I hope he can become another good white Dutch player like Rik Smits.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Maybe I also should have included the athletic 6'11 Josh Heytvelt. He can really jump for a PF. He's a good defender, but isn't completely polished offensively from what I've seen. He needs to improve his mid-range jump shot some. HE could be worth a late first rounder/ very early 2nd round pick.

 

[j41181]

ToughJ.Riggins, Heytvelt has a game like Troy Murphy, though not as polished offensively as you have mentioned. But since Murphy is enjoying a successful NBA journey, Heyvelt's chances of making it, are considerably good. Since he's got the size and range. It's "athleticism, defense, and durability" now that will make many NBA scouts and experts question his potential.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Maybe I also should have included the athletic 6'11 Josh Heytvelt. He can really jump for a PF. He's a good defender, but isn't completely polished offensively from what I've seen. He needs to improve his mid-range jump shot some. HE could be worth a late first rounder/ very early 2nd round pick.

Heytvelt has a game like Troy Murphy, though not as polished offensively as you have mentioned. But since Murphy is enjoying a successful NBA journey, Heyvelt's chances of making it, are considerably good. Since he's got the size and range. It's "athleticism, defense, and durability" now that will make many NBA scouts and experts question his potential.

Tough and j41181, you guys have this evaluation exactly backward. Heytvelt would either run circles around or jump over Troy Murphy. but Murphy is a better rebounder, even by accident, than Heytvelt.

Heytvelt is incredibly athletic and incredibly skilled on the offensive end. he'd prefer to face the basket than play with his back to it, though he does have an effective jump hook with either hand. his mid-range game is very similar to Tim Duncan's, even down to his preference for using the glass, and he also is comfortable out on the perimeter, where he hits a high percentage from 3-point range. Heytvelt is a solid, if unspectacular defender, but doesn't have the instincts to be a consistent shot blocker.

and that leads to the only question with Heytvelt.

Heytvelt's biggest problem is he doesn't always show up to play. he can disappear for long stretches, which is incredibly frustrating because he has Top-5 NBA Draft talent and skill. and that's not an exaggeration. he destroyed Tyler Hansbrough two years ago. he's put up huge numbers on other occasions, as well. however, he will have games where he does nearly nothing.

Heytvelt is an intriguing prospect because he has literally unsurpassed skill and athleticism, as well as great length, for this year's draft class. but his insconsistency and American-born white skin make his draft place very uncertain.Edited by: Jimmy Chitwood

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

i haven't seen any of the foreign prospects play except for Rubio and the tall German kid, so i won't comment on them.

off the top of my head, if i were ranking American-born white kids as they will be drafted by the NBA (not how i would pick them) they would go as follows:

Cole Aldrich
B.J. Mullens
Nick Calathes
Tyler Hansbrough
Matt Bouldin (if he declares)
Lee Cummard
Chase Budinger
Michael Bramos
Jon Brockman (think the east coast version of Hansbrough and Harangody, or a taller, white version of Corliss Williamson)

Harangody, Singler, Luke Babbitt, Jon Leuer, and all the other white men that have been mentioned thus far in this thread are not going to declare early, unless i miss my guess.b]

edited to remove AJ Ogilvy. he's an Aussie. he should be a first-round pick at some point, i feel. but he suffers from being on an otherwise black Vandy team who won't give him the ball. despite that, he is the best big man in the SEC.Edited by: Jimmy Chitwood

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

That's true Harangody's a JR. I've seen the guy play a lot and I think he can make it in the NBA as a quality 6th or 7th man; maybe a solid starter; which I commented on my analysis of his inside game in his thread. He has an outside game too which will help him in the NBA.

However Harangody realizes he's not high on the NBA radar; in fact some sites don't even have him being drafted which is ridiculous.

I don't get to see Gonzaga much here on the east coast, but the particular game I saw with Josh Heytvelt he didn't shoot well and didn't seem like the go to guy offensively, but I could tell he was very athletic. I had also read about his athleticm before. He was arrested last year for "Magic" Mushroom possession.

 

[j41181]

Jon Brockman has a game that reminds me of Utah's Matt Harpring, as both have football sized bodies to bang down low. Brockman has some perimeter game, but his real deficiency is his free throw shooting. If he just shot 70-80% from the line, he would be a more efficient, and dangerous player.

 

[j41181]

Jimmy Chitwood, I still stick with my comparison to Murphy due to the fact that Heytvelt doe not have that go-to-guy instinct, just like Murphy. Some nights he will erupt for 28 points, some night he will just score 6 points. The problem with Heytvelt is consistency, something he needs top fix if he'll ever get a good chance at the NBA.

Murphy seems to have developed some consistency in his game, but it also depends on what opposition he goes up against. If the team is known for defense, he will score low, if the team is weak in defense, then he'll have a decent game. What applies to Murphy also applies to Heytvelt, he only plays well if the team is weak on defense, and bad if the team plays tough defense.

As for his athleticism, there's no doubt it's remarkable for his size, I guess it all goes down to how tough he is mentally. Three players I can compare Heytvelt to are Okur, Nowitzki, and Bargnani, although there is some comparison also for Bosh, Duncan, and Rasheed Wallace.Edited by: j41181

 

[RBNY123]

I just checked out a great video on Nando De Colo from a little less than a year ago here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ti0fxUcfLU. While i will agree that he looks like he is great a great passer i don't think he is athletic enough to be compaired to a rudy fernandez and certainly not athletic enough to be compared to a marco belinelli who i believe is an athletic freak from some of the videos i've seen. I think Nando'ss strength lies in his great ball handling skills and vision. I hope he does well.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Why has Mullens dropped so far on draft boards? Has he had poor performances this season? He was considered the first or second pick several months ago and now he's down to like 10.

 

[RBNY123]

I also think mike trimboli whom i have talked about before is a long shot but if he has a good ncaa tournament he should have a chance to make it to the nba. Lastly Ryan Toolson who has been averaging 24 points per game, 3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, and 1 steal per game, has decent size at 6-4, and single handedly is carrying his otherwise mediocre team. I can't believe a guy who scores over 60 points in one game can get almost no media coverage, and have zero videos of his highlights on youtube. It seems like every time Koby goes for over 40 points in a game they devote the whole day to him in his honor. Just ridiculous.

 

[RBNY123]

I did however manage to find this one video posted of ryan toolson it was posted yesterday so here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVOJdlkprKg.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

I still stick with my comparison to Murphy due to the fact that Heytvelt doe not have that go-to-guy instinct, just like Murphy. Some nights he will erupt for 28 points, some night he will just score 6 points. The problem with Heytvelt is consistency, something he needs top fix if he'll ever get a good chance at the NBA.

i agree with this 100%.

and your comparison to Rasheed Wallace and Chris Bosh, i think, is a good one, both in playing style and athleticism. i don't think Heytvelt is as good an athlete as Bargnani, but he's a better athlete than Duncan and Okur. just my two cents.

of course, i think it goes without saying that you are absolutely right about him needing to become much more consistent playing at a high level before he should be compared as a "player" to any of these guys.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Why has Mullens dropped so far on draft boards? Has he had poor performances this season? He was considered the first or second pick several months ago and now he's down to like 10.

Ohio State head coach Thad Motta (sp?) is bringing Mullens off the bench in most games, because i think he's trying to get BJ to come back for his sophomore year. that's just my opinion, but it's clear that NBA scouts are in love with Mullens' upside.

he is clearly OSU's best big man, and might be the most athletic big in college basketball. he is still very raw, however.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

RBNY123, i think your comments regarding Trimboli and Toolson are absolutely correct.

the only thing these guys don't have that most NBA players have is black skin.

 

[j41181]

Kobe "Dickhead" Bryant will more than often get his 40, so will Obama James, any black in the Negro League. Drunk white fans have been all but spoiled by these "indomitable feats."

But when a white dude scores 40+ points, (Nowitzki did it 3 times this season) the media wants to hide it from the fans as much as possible. It's like keeping everyone from the truth that aliens and UFO's exist.

 

[GreatLakeState]

NBA scout's take from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/seth_davis/02/ 24/hoop.thoughts/1.html

B.J. Mullens, 7-foot freshman center, Ohio State: "Potential, potential, potential. I don't know why Thad Matta is not starting him. I'm sure somebody else would have given him a scholarship and let him play 34 minutes a game. If you don't want a guy to be one and done, then don't recruit him. He's a no brainer, probably a top five or six pick. He'll come in and get his butt kicked for a couple of years, but he's really skilled. He doesn't rebound well for someone his size, but he's a good bet long-term."

Kyle Singler, 6-8 sophomore forward, Duke: "He's an NBA player. What doesn't he do? He's versatile, he can really pass and he's tough as heck. He's not a great shooter, but he's a better rebounder and passer than he is a shooter. He's got a little more nastiness in him than people think. I've watched him guard players who are 6-4, 6-5, and I've watched him guard guys who are 6-9 and 6-10."

 

[whiteathlete33]

Mullens would do himself a world of good by staying at least another season. He needs more experience at this point if he is still raw.

 

[j41181]

Singler is already very tough on both ends (especially on defense), he just needs to improve his outside game, and develop a go-to-guy attitude.

Mullens needs to improve his free throw shooting, and I agree with WA33 that he needs to stay in college. I'd rather see him jump to the NBA after his junior year.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

concerning Mullens, it all depends on what you guys mean by him being "ready."

if you mean his game needs work, then no he's not ready. if you mean the NBA people will draft him very high and throw boatloads of money at him because of his upside, then yes he is ready.

personally, i feel the NBA drafts guys based on the wrong things. but that's how things are for the time being. and as such, he will be a high draft pick if he comes out this year.

as for Singler, that guy is awesome! as the scouting report GLS posted said, i've seen him guarding everyone from a 6-3 shooting guard to a 6-11 center this season. he's got a mean streak that i love. and his rebounding, ball handling, and passing are vastly underrated. barring injury, he's going to be a great pro if he gets a fair shake.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I probably ranked Singler too low as being 10th-16th pick worthy, but I wasn't overly happy with his shooting percentage this year. I didn't realize the guy was such a good defender, I tend to get focused mostly on offense. I'm an offense minded kind of guy!

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

it's doubtful Singler will leave Duke this year. and he's still just a sophomore. he can flat out play!

 

[Freethinker]

I agree Mullin needs to stay, instead of waste away on an NBA bench.

As for Singler, I would love to see him jump to the NBA. I think he can step in and be an effective player right away. The other reason I say this I would like to see Duke's young white fowards get more minutes next year.

6'-9" Ryan Kelly (5 star)
6'-10" Mason Plumlee (4 star)
6'-10" Miles Plumlee (3 star)
6'-7" Olek Czyz (3 star)