Who gets in tommorow?

white is right

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I hope the Goose finally gets in, same with Dawson and if I had a vote I would also vote for Trammell, Morris and I would let Big Mac sit under the heater lamp.....
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white is right

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The Goose made it, Rice fell 16 votes short. My favourite player on the ballot the Hawk was in the 60's and should get in eventually. Here is the AP wire story...NEW YORK -- Rich "Goose" Gossage became only the fifth relief pitcher elected to the Hall of Fame, earning baseball's highest honor Tuesday on his ninth try on the ballot.

Known for his overpowering fastball, fiery temperament and bushy mustache, the Goose received 466 of 543 votes (85.8 percent) from 10-year members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

"It was very emotional, off the charts. I can't describe the feeling," Gossage said.

Former Boston Red Sox outfielder Jim Rice was on 72.2 percent of the ballots, just 16 votes shy of the 75 percent needed. He has one more year of eligibility left on the ballot.

Last year, Gossage was on 71.2 percent of ballots and Rice appeared on 63.5 percent.

Hall of Fame Voting

Rich "Goose" Gossage was the only player voted into the Baseball Hall of Fame in the 2008 ballot. Jim Rice, who has just one year remaining on the ballot, finished just 16 votes short of induction. Players remain on the ballot for a maximum of 15 years as long as they receive 5 percent of the vote.
Player Votes Pct.
Goose Gossage 466 85.8
Jim Rice 392 72.2
Andre Dawson 358 65.9
Bert Blyleven 336 61.9
Lee Smith 235 43.3
Jack Morris 233 42.9
Tommy John 158 29.1
Tim Raines 132 24.3
Mark McGwire 128 23.6
Alan Trammell 99 18.2
Dave Concepcion 88 16.2
Don Mattingly 86 15.8
Dave Parker 82 15.1
Dale Murphy 75 13.8
Harold Baines 28 5.2
Others receiving votes: Rod Beck 2, Travis Fryman 2, Robb Nen 2, Shawon Dunston 1, Chuck Finley 1, David Justice 1, Chuck Knoblauch 1, Todd Stottlemyre 1.

Former Montreal Expos and Chicago Cubs outfielder Andre Dawson was third in this year's voting, appearing on 358 ballots, or 65 percent. Pitcher Bert Blyleven was on 336 ballots, or 61.9 percent.

Dawson's teammate in Montreal, outfielder Tim Raines, was alone among 11 first-ballot candidates in qualifying to remain on the ballot, with 24.3 percent or 132 votes. Candidates must receive 5 percent to remain on the ballot for the next year.

Rice will appear on the writers' ballot for the 15th and final time next year, when career steals leader Rickey Henderson will be among the newcomers.

Mark McGwire, a casualty of the Steroids Era in some writers' minds, received just 128 votes -- the exact total he had last year. His percentage increased slightly to 23.6 percent, up from 23.5 percent last year when he was on the ballot for the first time.

Gossage, who fell short by 21 votes last year, joins Hoyt Wilhelm (1985), Rollie Fingers (1992), Dennis Eckersley (2004) and Bruce Sutter (2006) in Cooperstown's bullpen.

Gossage was sitting in a recliner in his living room overlooking the Rocky Mountains when he received the call. He turned to reporters in the room and said, "Oh my God, I've been elected.''

"A shock wave went through my body like an anvil just fell on my head,'' Gossage said about his reaction. "I think having to wait makes it that much more special.''

Bullpen Call
As Goose Gossage joins the Baseball Hall of Fame, Rob Neyer says he should be the last relief pitcher of his generation to be enshrined in Cooperstown. Blog Insider

His mother died in 2006, Gossage said with tears welling up in his eyes, and he had hoped she would live long enough to see him inducted.

Gossage was a nine-time All-Star who pitched for nine major league teams from 1972-94 and had 310 saves -- 52 of them when he got seven outs or more.

The first time he appeared on the Hall ballot in 2000, Gossage received only 33.3 percent of the vote.

He will be inducted July 27 in Cooperstown, joined by five men elected last month by the revamped Veterans Committee: former commissioner Bowie Kuhn, former Dodgers owner Walter O'Malley, managers Dick Williams and Billy Southworth and ex-Pirates owner Barney Dreyfuss.

Williams managed Gossage on the San Diego Padres.

"There isn't anybody I'd rather go in with than Dick Williams,'' said Gossage, who spoke with his former manager right after getting the news.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.
 

Don Wassall

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Great to see Gossage make it, an overdue honor.


Of the others, I think Blyleven and McGwire deserve election. At 72.2% and just one year left, look for Jim Rice to make it next year as all stops are pulled out on his undeserving behalf. Dale Murphy only received 13.8% and he's more deserving than Rice. 13.8?? Ridiculous!
 
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Dale Murphy being my all-time favorite athlete, this is always a
depressing annual event. A back-to-back MVP and as dominant as
anyone in the game for a half-decade. He was an athletic freak, as a non-
steroid 6-5 30-30 guy and gold glove outfielder.

Murph's cause is hurt because he fell off so fast and had some horrible
years at the end that really killed his career numbers. But in Bill James'
historical abstract, he still ranks ahead of many outfielders already in the
Hall.

What I remember most about Jim Rice, was that he hit into a helluva a lot
of double plays, which other than the INT, has to be the worst individual
play in sports.
 

Don Wassall

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Murphy was my favorite player in the '80s. Back in the earlier days of cable I'd watch Braves games on TBS just to see how Murph was doing.


He played 18 seasons, the problem is he started off slowly and finished weak. But unlike Rice he was a five-tool player. It's too bad no one is making a push for the Hall on his behalf as the writers often times seem to be influenced by such pleas. With all the borderline cases that get in for Murphy to be receiving such a low level of support is truly a head scratcher.
 
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It's weird, because he was probably the most popular player of that time
... I guess not among the writers.

Good call on the late start, as well, as he floundered around as a catcher
in the 70s.
 

bigunreal

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I guess it's probably a good thing I'm not on the Hall of Fame selection committee. I just don't see any of these guys as all-time greats. Good players? Sure. Very good players? Some of them. But to put them on the same level with Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Rogers Hornsby, etc.- no way. They are simply not in the same category.

I really dislike relief pitchers, and would never vote for one to make the HOF, unless they'd been at least a very good starter for a period of time before becoming a reliever. There has been a media crusade, since at least the 1970s, to place undue importance on relief pitchers. It's ridiculous to claim that anyone whose "job" consists of working an inning or two every few days is "great" in any way, shape or form.

George Brett is about the last player I would have voted for to be elected to the HOF. Most of the power hitters in recent times have been horrible fielders and their batting averages are way too low for HOFers. When the greatest power hitter of all time, Babe Ruth, produced a LIFETIME average of .342, how can anyone be elected to the same Hall of Fame who had less Home Runs, less RBIs and never hit .342 in a single season? Guys have been elected in recent years that never even produced a SINGLE .300 season in their careers. A .300 average used to considered the landmark for good hitters. Imho, a great hitter-and certainly a Hall of Famer-ought to consistently have a batting average above that.

The watered-down meaning of the word "great," and the induction of so many good but never spectacular players to the Hall of Fame is just one of the many reasons I stopped having any interest in Major League Baseball.
 
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A .300 average is hardly the tell-all sign of a good baseball player. It's all
about producing runs.
 

foreverfree

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bigunreal said:
The watered-down meaning of the word "great," and the induction of so many good but never spectacular players to the Hall of Fame is just one of the many reasons I stopped having any interest in Major League Baseball.

If that interest is ever rekindled, and even if it's not, I highly recommend reading Bill James's The Politics of Glory: How Baseball's Hall of Fame Really Works. Good read for people who expect sports halls of fame to have fixed (there's that word again iykwim) standards, like you apparently are, and I used to be (to a lesser degree).

John
 
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Have read that book, but misplaced it. James' updated historical abstract is great, though for a #s guy he probably overvalues the Negro League players in his rankings.
 

Tom Iron

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Gentlemen,

What is the best book about the Negro Leagues in your opinion, without too much negro worship in it?

Tom Iron...
 
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My pick would be The Biographical Encyclopdeida of the Negro Baseball
Leagues, by James Riley.
 

Tom Iron

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GreatLakeState,

I got another book by Riley, "The Negro Leagues." Riley seems to be quite pro black, but it was a good book on a few counts. first off, I never knew, or thought about it, but the players in the Negro Leagues were all free agents. That's why they were always jumping from team to team. There seems to have been quite a bit of White backing for the teams as far as setting them up and getting places to play, etc. Also, I never knew that at first, there were integrated teams. It also seems that blacks were getting themselves into hot water at that time as well. It mentions in the book that a couple of real good players had to leave the game because the law was after them. One last thing. In the book, there were a lot of pictures and interestingly, the players looked like serious men (even though they were black). There was no idiotic grinning and the pictures of the black fans were the same as far as they were all dressed nicely, no fools clothing and they all looked respectable, at least as far as what a camera can capture. Interesting.

Next I'm going to get a book named "Only the Ball was White," written by Robert Peterson. The reason I selected it out of Riley's bibliography was that it was printed in 1970. Possibly, it won't be as pro black as the other books written from the 1980's onward must be on the subject.
 

Tom Iron

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I just got finished reading the book entitled, "Only the Ball was White," written by Robert Peterson. I thought the book was good and presented the black ballplayers correctly and gave a good account of the game they the blacks played and the ballplayers and owners.

For the most part, when they talk about the "Negro Leagues," you have to take the word league with a grain of salt. They weren't leagues in the real sense of the word. The teams didn't play a set scheduled and didn't play the same amount of games. for the most part, players averages weren't kept up and there's way too much hearsay about which ballplayer was good and which ballplayer was great.

They had a lot of ballplayers who weren't too good at all. If it'd been integrated, they never would have been able to play professional ball. Buck Leonard put it pretty well. He said that the main difference between the majors and Negro ball was depth. You could have put a Negro team in each major league and they would have done well, but the difference was that the majors had all good pithers whereas the Negro teams had guys who they'd only let pitch while the team was barnstorming. Those type of pitchers would never had been carried on a major league roster. Generally speaking, Leonard put the level of competition in the Negor leagues at between AA and AAA ball.

When Robinson broke the color bar, that was more or less the death knell of the Negro leagues. Some of the Negro owners wanted to be compensated for the black players who jumped to the major league farm teams, but because they'd have to open up their book to scrutiny if they went to court, they backed off.

As I was reading, the author said that different Negro players were as good or better than some of the great White players of the time. It's my opinion that whether or not the Negro was good or better than the White ballplayer was never the point to segregating the two races. The point was that the society that existed then didn't want to see integrated baseball. That was always the point.

I would like to see the return of segregation in all things. It shouldn't be about whether or not our White players are as good or better, it should all be about you play with your people and we'll play with ours.

Tom Iron...
 

bigunreal

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Given how the jock-sniffers and coaches exaggerate the skills of virtually every black "athlete" now, I think we should take the testimony of Negro league players with a huge grain of salt. While it may be humorous to hear some black oldster maintain that Cool Papa Bell was so fast he could hit the light switch and be in bed before the room was dark, the anecdotal style of "evidence" for the greatness of these Negro league stars is hardly credible. The absurd claims about the exploits of Satchel Paige and co. is similar to what we saw from Cassius Clay-Ali and still are subjected to in the present day sports world by the likes of overrated scum like Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson. Edited by: bigunreal
 

Tom Iron

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bigunreal,

Yes, agreed. I just was relating what I read. The author was very pro black, but anyone with any common sense could read between the lines and understand that the Negro Leagues were manly a figment of peoples imagination, that they weren't leagues as such but very loose associations with slapdash methods of doing business.

Tom Iron...
 
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Good reportage, thanks.
 

Don Wassall

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I've always enjoyed this description of the Negro Leagues by J. B. Cash:


The conspicuous lack of quality black pitchers puts in question another dubious aspect of revisionist history â€â€￾- the Negro Leagues. We are constantly bombarded by tales of the greatness of Negro League players. Today, any remaining living players from that era are treated like heroes and we end up with players of dubious talent being welcomed into the Hall of Fame on a periodic basis.

The real truth of the Negro Leagues is so embarrassing that it is amazing that revisionists even bring it up. It is only through the fear that modern pro-black forces exert that the history of the Negro Leagues can even be taken seriously. Josh Gibson: 800 homers. Sure. Why not 1,000? Who will ever know? Most of the games he played in were basically exhibitions against the local team. No one kept any serious statistics. Teams came and went. Players changed teams during the game. It was a joke by any standard of the word "league". Baseball vaudeville would be more accurate. But who in the media can risk speaking the truth without the racial police destroying his career?

So we have to endure the tales of the Negro Leagues like they were a black version of the National League and not what they really were, a black version of a softball beer league. Compare this to the stats for the pre-1900 professional baseball leagues. There is a box score for every one of those games. Complete stats can be found on players from the National Association from over 120 years ago! I can tell you to the number how many homeruns Jim O'Rourke hit in 1880 (6). We have no idea how many homeruns Josh Gibson hit in 1941. Of course to criticize blacks for sloppy record keeping is getting too close to other sensitive issues about African Americans so that discussion is off the table also and instead we have to treat the propaganda as truth instead of the pure fabrication it really is.



http://www.castefootball.us/viewarticle.asp?sportID=14&t eamID=0&ID=22641


Compare that with this week's Sports Illustrated, which features 8 pages of "luminous" paintings of Negro Leaguers. Entitled "The Pride of the Game," the article accompanying the paintings begins thusly: Luminous paintings by Kadir Nelson re-create the power and majesty of the Negro leagues, in a time when some of the game's greats played in undeserved obscurity -- but with undiminished passion.


The artist finds beauty even where there seems to be none, and in that way Kadir Nelson and the men of the Negro leagues are soul mates. Negro leagues baseball (1920-47) was an exquisite flower grown from poisonous soil -- the ugly racial attitudes of 20th century America -- and nurtured by men who refused to allow the ignorance that barred them from the major leagues to extinguish their passion for the game. . . Though created through a combination of Nelson's research and his imagination, the paintings have a stunningly authentic feel, right down to the veins in Buck O'Neil's hands, the sinews of Josh Gibson's massive forearms and the curve of Satchel Paige's long fingers over the stitching of the baseball.


There must have beenan extra helping of erections among SI's white boys while putting this issue together. How long before the name of the Negro Leagues is officially changed to the Magical Negro Leagues?
Edited by: Don Wassall
 

Bart

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Don Wassall said:
I've always enjoyed this description of the Negro Leagues by J. B. Cash:.

The real truth of the Negro Leagues is so embarrassing that it is amazing that revisionists even bring it up. It is only through the fear that modern pro-black forces exert that the history of the Negro Leagues can even be taken seriously. Josh Gibson: 800 homers. Sure. Why not 1,000? Who will ever know? Most of the games he played in were basically exhibitions against the local team. No one kept any serious statistics. Teams came and went. Players changed teams during the game. It was a joke by any standard of the word "league". Baseball vaudeville would be more accurate. But who in the media can risk speaking the truth without the racial police destroying his career?


This is one of JB's best articles.Send it to your family and friends who are baseball fans.
 
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