What constitutes athleticism?

ToughJ.Riggins

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I think what the Olympics show is that different ethnic groups are all a little different, although small differences none the less. The Olympics were basically founded on ethnic pride (even still most countries are pretty homogeneous ethnically), a subject which gets us on this site called racist. Are Olympic fans racist? Well by the American media rule book they probably are.

But basically, what we see is there are different physical skills that are all important for different areas of survival. It's the survival aspect for why I love sports so much. For most of human history our lives were sport, just like the animals.

But get this; statistically Usain Bolt is as fast as a Grizzly Bear and he also is one of the fastest starters in the world. This guy might actually be able to outrun an angry Grizzly Bear, rather than try to play dead. But the question is how far would the Grizzly chase him? Would Usain trip over a branch in the woods trying to run, while the Grizzly just tears through the branches? Human beings can actually cover long distances better than most animals. Horses can go fast for almost two miles, but soon after, just lose their will.

In hilly regions, hiking up grueling slopes carrying something heavy (a carcus of meat?) may have been very important to survival (endurance and strength), whites are good at this kind of skill IMO. If a person is on a golf course, there are few men that can out run an alligator over short distances. Alligators run about 25 MPH tops over short distances if I recall, already faster than the great majority of men, but hit their top speed "very" fast. Usain Bolt may not even be able to have enough of a burst to get away from a gator who lurches at him within a couple meters in the first 5-10 meters of chase. But over 100 meters Usain would kill the alligator in ground covered. This is why they tell golfers in Florida, who are stupid enough to go into the weeds near the swamp to get their ball and get surprised by a gator, to run in a zigzag if a gator chases you. This is because gators can't change direction well at all and get confused b/c they are dumb.

Can Usain Bolt change direction as well as Sam McGuffie, Danny Woodhead, or Tre Smith? I am almost certain he can't. Does Sam McGuffie already at 18 years old cover 10 yards (on turf at least) as fast as Bolt would? That is actually "not outside the realm of possibility". I firmly believe McGuffie will break the electronically timed 10 yard dash record at the NFL combine, if he actually gets a chance to get there. McGuffie's 1st 10 yards are frekin insane, world class, if they had that event in track! But over 100 meters Usain would annihilate Mcguffie, even if McGuffie put all his efforts into track for the next 5 years. So the question remains, what makes an athlete?

SO in a sense there are all different areas of skills that different people or groups are good at. Yet still we should be disappointed in this Olympics, because our enemies (who I am going to start calling Luginbills) will use the 40 yard, 100 meter, 200 meter speed argument to state their case against anyone but the black football player.

All other skills: strength, field awareness, 10, 20 yard burst, balance, cutting ability, vision, etc. will go out the wayside to the Luginbills because the silly white man can't compete with Usain Bolt. And when evaluating other skills they often lie anyway, b/c other skills are more subject to interpretation and they can get away with lying claiming to be experts. A white man has yet again won gold in the high jump, but the Luginbills will keep pointing to speed to fuel their argument of an even blacker NBA. The high jump has become a second tier event after all, compared to the short sprints. A very disappointing Olympics indeed, because in events where whites are underdogs already we still underachieved big time. Rant Finished. Round one to the Luginbills. Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

waterbed

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Good post but my Question is:Are blacks faster over 40 yards?
In soccer not over THAT distances from the statistics that I have seen.At least in Europe not.
 

guest301

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Hey Riggs, don't you know that the only athletic traits that matter are speed and leaping ability? Where have you been?
smiley2.gif
Good post as usual by the way.
 

White Shogun

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In the long run the only thing that really counts is the ability to fight.
 

Colonel_Reb

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White Shogun said:
In the long run the only thing that really counts is the ability to fight.


Yep, you are right about that my friend.
 

guest301

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Amen to the above two posts by Reb and Shogun.More importantly, the willingness to fight and the wisdom to know how,when and where.
 

GiovaniMarcon

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I think I read somewhere that by a certain period, a huge majority of the later Roman Empire's military comprised of Germanic warriors (and virtually all of the elite Praetorian Guard) because "fighting is in their blood".

But back to the question, the physical traits of whites seem to generally place them in a good all-around place to compete in all sports. Men of all abilities, master of many, best at some.

As far as the basic Olympics credo -- faster, higher, stronger -- it seems whites have wrested at least two out of three, and made inroads on the third, which isn't bad at all.
 
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There are 160M+ whites in the US, but the sprinters have to compete with the faster blacks for top world class sprint spots. Therefore, we will never truly know what whites are capable of achieving in sprints. I'm 100% certain that if there were more whites receiving the training and chemical "assistance" some of these black guys are, one of our fastest reps would have broken 10 secs by now.

I'm under no delusion that whites would be breaking 9.7 or even 9.8, but 9.9s and maybe a high 9.8 (if we're lucky) might be possible if all whites were in the pool of potential sprinters. I mean, come on, we had 10 flats back in the 50s (before modern doping hit full power).

In the scope of football, the few West African freaks of their own overrated populace do not justify the insane proportions in a sport that relies on so many other forms of athleticism for success. Straight line speed isn't going to win many games in most sports, by itself.

If we look at the facts, there really aren't that many people that have run sub 10s in history. The few that do, repeat their results (naturally) and we get misleading statements like "there have been X number of 100m runs under 10 seconds by black sprinters". Of these blacks, most if not all come from a very small subset of the West African-based genetic group.

It's the same principle of eugenics that makes certain pools of the British Isles and Germany home to a disproportionate amount of super geniuses in the legit 160-200 IQ range. Most white groups average over 100 IQ, but few produced on par with the intellectual elite of British Islanders and Germans, from which most of the useful inventions of modern time came from.

I think every race has their "freaks" if you will, in whatever field that genetic group is strong in, but it gets closer to competitive in the more average ranks.Edited by: FieldThrower
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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Field Thrower, you make some good points. I checked recently sometime in May to find that there have been only 53 sprinters in world history to run a wind legal electronic timed 100 meter dash. That number has likely gone up since that time due to the Olympics. If I recall Walter Dix is a new entry to that elite group. There have been over 300 sub 10 times from the group of 54 sprinters or so to achieve the formerly discussed.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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I did not count times at altitude though, so that may be the bigger difference between our two numbers. Running 100 meters in Mexico City for instance, can take at least a tenth off your 100 meter time.
 
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Who is Vladislav Dologodin? It lists him with 3 legal, hand-timed, low altitude 9.9's. I'm assuming he's white, or at least not black (without photos). He is from the Ukraine, and I doubt they have many black sprinters in that country. One is said to have a 0.0 mph wind factor.

Other whites/non-blacks on the hand-timed list:
Ronald Desruelles (1 run) - Belarus
Vitaliy Savin (2 runs) - Kazakystan (He looks pretty white in these photos: 1 | 2)
Kastytis Klimas (1) - Lithuania
Chris Donaldson (1) - New Zealand
Gary Ryan (1) - Ireland

Edited by: FieldThrower
 

mastermulti

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if I may here F/T...

Dologodin (and another Ukranian whose name escapes me now) has a
10.02e but these were never done outside their home country making
them a little sus.

Desruelles was a very useful Belgian sprinter who ran a fast heat at LA
Olympics but got an icepack on his hamstring at the finish line and didn't
front for the next round. I still have this on tape. He was tall and wound
up to a very high top end speed after giving away some at the start. He
was a 10 teens sprinter at his best.

Chris Donaldson has an electronic PB of 10.18 or 10.19 in the final of the
1998 Com Games where Shirvo ran his 10.03. His dad is a film director in
the States btw.

Savin was VERY good and had a legal 10.08 PB that he took into Rome in
1987 where the USSR only lost the 4 x 100 when Carl Lewis ran down
their anchorman Krylov. He ran 2nd leg and lost no ground at all to the
Americans. They still managed 38.03 (WR was 37.83 at that time) to the
U.S 37.90.
The next year in Seoul they put him as anchor because of his toughness
under pressure and it worked.
Linford took the baton 2 metres down and despite being a 100 medalist
he only managed to take 1 metre off Savin early and then was forced into
overstriding when Savin just knuckled down and wouldn't let him past.
Savin is my favourite ( and probably best) Soviet sprinter aside from
Borsov.
At the time his PB was 15/100ths over the WR. Put into perspective that's
like a white man running 9.84 now against Bolt's WR. Very quick as his
photo links posted above would tend to demonstrate.

Gary Ryan shared the Irish record (with Paul Brizell) till this year when
Hession broke it a couple of times but it was only around 10.32e.

Our own Paul Narracott has a 9.9h legal but a 10.26e legal PB and a 10.18
e slightly wind aided. His best would have equated to 10 teens had
Australia had had electronically timed meets week in week out
during comp season. If you "youtube" Alan Wells and watch the Brisbane
100m 1982 where he ran down Ben Johnson, you'll see Narracott very
close behind.

Karlsson ran relays with his brother on the same team. Both were fast but
not exceptional by world standards.

These guys are no doubt ALL very useful and talented sprinters but that's
why electronic times at international meets are so important.... if you
can't duplicate the times there it counts for nothing.

* all these times are from memory but within a 1/100th or so, so please
excuse me if there's any slight discrepancyEdited by: mastermulti
 

mastermulti

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athleticism.......

I just went and watched my 1987 Worlds tape from Rome where they had
radar on the runners to measure their speeds.
Sergie Bubka was running in to the pole vault at nearly 10m/s before
showing us his splendid vaulting technique.
Imagine that... running at 10 metres/second not only NOT driving with
his arms but also carrying and balancing a long pole!
His was incredible athleticism.


Then there appeared on the tape 22 year old long jumper Robert
Emmiyan who came in with an 8.86 metre PB. He proceeded to do these
apparently slow motion hanging long jumps of over 8.50. His career
stopped I believe when his family were badly affected by the Chernobyl
disaster.
So say what we may about the old Soviets, they had tough white men who
could perform!Edited by: mastermulti
 

white lightning

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Great posts mastermulti. I wish I could have seen some of those meets from the past. I would have loved to have watched Borzov live. We are only around 8 hours from the big meet in England. Give me a prediction on what time Pickering and Hession will run? Also, how close do you think Pickering is to Shirvo. I know Shirvo was faster at a younger age but I still see so much upside in Craig. His injuries just killed his season this year but he won't be 22 until October. There will be very big things to come in the near future from him.


What do you think about Chistophe Lemaitre?
 

mastermulti

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Hi WL,

well if they're both fit and nursing no injuries, if the weather is kind and
they start well (lot of "ifs" there I know) I think the guestimates above look
good. Craig should be getting some form, would be anxious to put that
relay display behind him and may go close to PBing.
Hession seems always reliable. Sub 20.30 would be great.

How will Sally go today?

I never saw Borsov live, but I did go to meets out here when Paul
Narracott got to race Alan Wells, Mel Lattany and Don Quarrie who were
up there in the world's best at the time. Narracott was only 22 then but
was never beaten by much by these guys, often just run down metres
from the line. He ran for several years after LA (where he was trying to
build form after injury but was struggling with speed indurance being
underdone) but then put less time into it to get his dental quals and start
a business.
This sort of thing has happened to heaps of good smart white guys,
where sprinting was more or less a hobby till life and work got serious.

Chris Lemaitre looked a good prospect from the little I have seen,
certainly the best white Frenchman since Guillierve, again in Rome '87. I
worry too much will be expected of him though. Bolt is out of range of
any white sprinter I've seen (black ones too come to that), but sub 10 will
come to the right person at the opportune time.

And they'll need a head like Sally McLellan on they're shoulders. She's
aiming for Lolo Jones' scalp.
Her coach said this week she gets caught mid race because at just 22 she
hasn't the strength over the whole distance yet. Lol is much stronger in
the gym but Sally's looking to keep upping the strength ante.
Read it here)http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/
<a href="http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/" target="_blank">http://
www.trackandfieldnews.com/</a>Edited by: mastermulti
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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waterbed said:
Good post but my Question is:Are blacks faster over 40 yards?
In soccer not over THAT distances from the statistics that I have seen.At least in Europe not.

There isn't all that much difference when comparing top safety prospects of black and white from their combine and pro-day times. White RBs like Leonard, have to bulk up too much and lose a little speed in transition. Your upper body can't be too power lifter like without losing a little speed. I would say maybe your average black safety from my comparisons has a .05-.08 second advantage over the white prospect, which equals about a 1.5 to 2 foot advantage in the 40 yard race for the black. Whites can certainly make up this tiny difference in other skill areas.

From what I've seen, I think whites actually have a slight advantage in 10 to 15 yard burst. The limited amount of white skill players that are invited to the combine always do very well with their 10,20 yard clips. It is the last 15-20 yards of a 40 yard dash where the black prospects make up ground. But IMO at the NFL combine it should really be a 25 or 30 yard dash that they test. The length of a typical TD drive is usually 55-80 yards. It is quite rare that there is a 25+ yard run on a scoring drive.

Here is a question for posters. If you looked at two RBs and one of them ran a 1.44 10 yard clip and a 4.55 40 yard dash and another one ran a 1.56 10 yard and a 4.44 40 yard, which RB based on just this information has more potential. According to the NFL it is the 4.44 guy hands down, but if you ask me I would take the 4.55 guy with the 1.44 10 yard clip if the two players were equally talented in other areas. You guys agree?Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

celticdb15

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I agree with you Riggins. People forget that their are 11 defenders on the field and how often in a backs career does he get to run 40 yards straight ahead without changing direction or not getting touched? The answer to that is probably once or twice in a solid pro career.
 
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