Tom Zbikowski
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you gotta love all those big and mean Polish dudes that are starts in college right now...
Paul Posluszny, LB Penn State
Tom Zbikowski, S Notre Dame
Quinn Sypniewski, TE Colorado
Bruce Gradkowski, QB Toledo
i am of Polish heritage as well so i root for all those guys even more for that reason!
Paul Posluszny, LB Penn State
Tom Zbikowski, S Notre Dame
Quinn Sypniewski, TE Colorado
Bruce Gradkowski, QB Toledo
i am of Polish heritage as well so i root for all those guys even more for that reason!
white lightning
Hall of Famer
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There is a great article in ESPN the magazine about Tom and his teammate Jeff Samardijza.They are very good friends.It is worth a read.
The Poles are so big!!! I played against some
Polish kids in a game. I was 5'8'', 180lbs(according to the
roster, it's generous)on the line and at linebacker. One kid was
around 6'5'' and about 240lbs. I had to cover him for a
bit. Man, that was not fun.
Polish kids in a game. I was 5'8'', 180lbs(according to the
roster, it's generous)on the line and at linebacker. One kid was
around 6'5'' and about 240lbs. I had to cover him for a
bit. Man, that was not fun.
Freedom said:Most of my ancestry is Ukranian and Polish, but I missed the size genes. Hey,I bet you Zbikowski screws in lightbulbs with his wrists, but he could spin Posluszny on the stool if he wanted to.
lol, i am Polish-Ukrainian on my mother's part! and i got the "size genes"
Kiwi
Newbie
Just wondering Backrow, do you find that their is any caste system where you play rugby?
Kiwi said:
nah, not really... i played pro for quite a few years, now i am taking it easy for a season or two playing semi-pro but so far i never experienced caste system of any sorts... the only problem i encountered is that for example playing in France or England, you actually have to be a lot better than your french/english rival for the same position if you wanna start... so there's that... but no race is considered superior, although polynesian guys -New Zealand maoris, Samoans, Tongans, Fijians- get a lot of respect (mostly well deserved)
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
I can't wait to see Zib light up some of those Ohio State receivers!
Southern Knight
Guru
Good article about Tommy Z in the South Bend Tribune; it seems as if Z's family has had to go to ridiculous lengths to prove that Tom is a legitimate athlete:
Groomed to be grounded
Zibby's toughness forged by family
By ERIC HANSEN
Tribune Staff Writer
The words bounce off Tom Zbikowski's tough exterior, more of an annoyance now than something that tears at his soul.
Deceptively fast.
It almost seems scripted with the regularity in which college football television commentators attach the term to the Notre Dame junior safety/punt returner. Just as he heard when he was an option quarterback at Buffalo Grove (Ill.) High School. Just as he heard when he settled into the starting blocks as a high school sprint standout.
"I'd like to think I'm just fast," said Zbikowski, who'll need every bit of his speed and savvy to keep up with Ohio State's fleet receiving corps in the Fiesta Bowl, Monday at Tempe, Ariz. "I guess if you asked teams that tried to catch me this year, they'd say I'm pretty fast."
But not perfect. The 6-foot, 208-pounder is the first to point that out.
"I think I've gotten better from game to game," Zbikowski said. "I've taken (defensive backs) coach (Bill) Lewis' teachings and tried to work on my weaknesses -- not being too aggressive and trying to hit everyone on every single play. Just being more patient."
He's never been patient about the speed issue, though, nor have his parents, Ed and Sue.
That's why they'd drive around the country in the years leading up to Tom coming to Notre Dame, pitting their son against some of the nation's best sprinters. They'd sleep in the car, eat fast food, give up any semblance of a social life to prove a point -- over and over again.
And they'd do the same to amplify their youngest child's ambitious amateur boxing career as well.
"When you're a white athlete, you're never fast," Ed said without a hint of resentment or disrespect in his voice. "It's reality, and we dealt with it."
Recruiting analyst Tom Lemming of CSTV and the Prep Football Report, said Zbikowski's saga is hardly isolated.
"When it comes to football, white athletes have to prove themselves more than black athletes at certain positions -- cornerback, wide receiver and running back," Lemming said. "There's a prejudice amongst a lot of college coaches -- not all of them -- that white guys can't play those positions. So when they get to college, they get switched right away to other positions.
"Tommy lasted three days at cornerback. Even though he was one of the fastest kids in Illinois (sixth in the 100-meter dash at the large-school state meet as a senior), there was a stigma with (former Irish coach) Tyrone Willingham's staff that he didn't have the loose hips to play corner, so he never really got a chance there. I don't think Charlie Weis, though, looks at it that way. Otherwise, he wouldn't have him returning punts."
* * *
Weis, ND's first-year head coach, didn't have to be convinced about Tom's toughness, either. And Zbikowski, in turn, might have been the first Irish player who embraced Weis' in-your-face style, complete with the brazen language, demands and expectations.
"My dad talks worse than that," Tom said with a smile. "I was talking to (Irish wide receiver) Jeff Samardzija about it, and some of the comments (Weis) said were compliments compared to what we've heard in our time. It was more my personality, more like I've grown up around."
And in that light, toughness wasn't a choice. Ed grew up in a rugged neighborhood on Chicago's west side and it permeates his personality even now.
"Nobody except Johnny Lattner went to Notre Dame," Ed said, referring to ND's Heisman Trophy winner of 1953. "In fact, nobody went to college or really dreamed of it. You worked in a factory after high school or in printing plants. Sports were important, but so was fighting, because you had to fight to get onto the softball field. You had to fight to get onto the basketball court. You had 1,000 kids for one court where I came from."
And Ed and Sue both fought to push their family into suburbia and middle class, working two and three jobs each so they could get their kids into a strong school system.
"My mom's probably the best athlete in the family," Tom said of the former basketball, softball and track star. "She's had a tremendous influence on me."
As did his siblings, Kristen (now 28) and E.J. (now 24).
Kristen was a softball standout at Ohio University, but she wanted to be a boxer.
"Tommy started to box when he was 9 and Kristen was 17. When she found out where Tommy was going to box, she snuck in to learn too," Ed said. "And I'm talking to the guy running the place about how Tommy's coming along, and he tells me how good Kristen is. That's how I found out about it. I said, 'please, stop it.'
"She's a pistol. She should have been a boy. I have more problems with her than I do with my boys. Figure that one out. So Tommy had to be tough, because he had a sister who was a wacko and a brother who went through all kinds of different stuff. No one had to say, 'Tommy, you have to be tough' or 'Tommy you have to dedicate yourself.' It was all laid out in front of him beforehand."
* * *
E.J., which stands for Edmund Joseph, was diagnosed with a brain tumor when he was 5 and toddling Tommy was just learning how to launch food from his high chair.
Seizures came along with the tumor, which prompted the family to take E.J. to the renowned Mayo Clinic. A year later, after the tumor continued to grow and the seizures became worse, E.J. underwent his first operation.
"The tumor was removed," Ed said, "but three years later, it had grown back and we were just beside ourselves."
A second surgery ensued, this one a more daring and untested procedure, but this time the cancer cells never grew back. The seizures, though, lingered for a while. And young E.J. dealt with them while playing sports.
"It wasn't embarrassing for him, but it was not something most people would put up with," Ed said. "He would be out there playing and all of a sudden fall to the ground. People would be like, 'Oh my God, what's going on?' I kept asking E.J., 'Are you sure you still want to do this?' And he was always very sure he wanted to.
"Tommy was young, but he knew what was going on. He always says, 'With what my brother went through, for me to complain about anything, I can't do it.' "
* * *
Overcoming the seizures became inspiration for E.J. Zbikowski to stalk his dreams with unbridled hope. Eventually, the seizures went away, but so did many of the opportunities to play sports on the collegiate level for the 6-foot-5 ball of determination.
He dabbled in football at Winona State and in junior college baseball, showing sparks of greatness in both in relative obscurity, but never experienced the momentous recruiting chase that Tom would later enjoy.
"That's why when ESPN.com approached us about Tommy doing a recruiting diary, we agreed to it -- but on certain conditions," Ed said. "I had two great athletes before Tommy -- E.J. and Kristen -- and they really didn't get the opportunities they should have, because I knew nothing about the process. I blame myself.
"So I said, 'That's never going to happen again.' I talked to the guy at ESPN and told him I wanted this to be a vehicle for other parents to understand the recruiting game. And I wanted it to come from the heart."
Tom's candor, though, sometimes prompted scathing criticism, primarily from sports talk radio callers and Internet message board posters. Even Notre Dame fans recoiled at how lukewarm he seemed to be about his scholarship offer from the school.
"It became a problem, really, because (then-recruiting coordinator) Greg Mattison and Tyrone Willingham kind of soft-played him," Ed said. "They offered him a scholarship, but there wasn't that feeling that you really were wanted. It was like, 'You're our guy, and we want you to come.' Then they'd never call anymore. And yet you'd have (Iowa head coach) Kirk Ferentz sitting in your kitchen, breaking bread with you. It wasn't an easy situation at all."
Nor has been playing for three different defensive backs coaches in three years at ND or injuries suffered last season that Tom played through but never told the media about or the growing pains that come with evolving at his position.
"We know Tommy will make a great play and he'll miss a play," Ed said. "You've got to take the good with the bad, that's the way we've always lived our lives. But he's out there competing, trying to get better. And he's not afraid to take criticism. That's made him the player he is and gives him a chance to keep getting better.
"Hey, as a father you hear that stuff from the talking heads on TV, and it doesn't feel great. But that's their job. They can say what they want. I realize their job isn't to make Ed Zbikowski happy. But Tommy knows his job too.
"In our family, you get knocked down, you better get your ass back up. And that's the one thing no one can ever take away from Tommy."
Groomed to be grounded
Zibby's toughness forged by family
By ERIC HANSEN
Tribune Staff Writer
The words bounce off Tom Zbikowski's tough exterior, more of an annoyance now than something that tears at his soul.
Deceptively fast.
It almost seems scripted with the regularity in which college football television commentators attach the term to the Notre Dame junior safety/punt returner. Just as he heard when he was an option quarterback at Buffalo Grove (Ill.) High School. Just as he heard when he settled into the starting blocks as a high school sprint standout.
"I'd like to think I'm just fast," said Zbikowski, who'll need every bit of his speed and savvy to keep up with Ohio State's fleet receiving corps in the Fiesta Bowl, Monday at Tempe, Ariz. "I guess if you asked teams that tried to catch me this year, they'd say I'm pretty fast."
But not perfect. The 6-foot, 208-pounder is the first to point that out.
"I think I've gotten better from game to game," Zbikowski said. "I've taken (defensive backs) coach (Bill) Lewis' teachings and tried to work on my weaknesses -- not being too aggressive and trying to hit everyone on every single play. Just being more patient."
He's never been patient about the speed issue, though, nor have his parents, Ed and Sue.
That's why they'd drive around the country in the years leading up to Tom coming to Notre Dame, pitting their son against some of the nation's best sprinters. They'd sleep in the car, eat fast food, give up any semblance of a social life to prove a point -- over and over again.
And they'd do the same to amplify their youngest child's ambitious amateur boxing career as well.
"When you're a white athlete, you're never fast," Ed said without a hint of resentment or disrespect in his voice. "It's reality, and we dealt with it."
Recruiting analyst Tom Lemming of CSTV and the Prep Football Report, said Zbikowski's saga is hardly isolated.
"When it comes to football, white athletes have to prove themselves more than black athletes at certain positions -- cornerback, wide receiver and running back," Lemming said. "There's a prejudice amongst a lot of college coaches -- not all of them -- that white guys can't play those positions. So when they get to college, they get switched right away to other positions.
"Tommy lasted three days at cornerback. Even though he was one of the fastest kids in Illinois (sixth in the 100-meter dash at the large-school state meet as a senior), there was a stigma with (former Irish coach) Tyrone Willingham's staff that he didn't have the loose hips to play corner, so he never really got a chance there. I don't think Charlie Weis, though, looks at it that way. Otherwise, he wouldn't have him returning punts."
* * *
Weis, ND's first-year head coach, didn't have to be convinced about Tom's toughness, either. And Zbikowski, in turn, might have been the first Irish player who embraced Weis' in-your-face style, complete with the brazen language, demands and expectations.
"My dad talks worse than that," Tom said with a smile. "I was talking to (Irish wide receiver) Jeff Samardzija about it, and some of the comments (Weis) said were compliments compared to what we've heard in our time. It was more my personality, more like I've grown up around."
And in that light, toughness wasn't a choice. Ed grew up in a rugged neighborhood on Chicago's west side and it permeates his personality even now.
"Nobody except Johnny Lattner went to Notre Dame," Ed said, referring to ND's Heisman Trophy winner of 1953. "In fact, nobody went to college or really dreamed of it. You worked in a factory after high school or in printing plants. Sports were important, but so was fighting, because you had to fight to get onto the softball field. You had to fight to get onto the basketball court. You had 1,000 kids for one court where I came from."
And Ed and Sue both fought to push their family into suburbia and middle class, working two and three jobs each so they could get their kids into a strong school system.
"My mom's probably the best athlete in the family," Tom said of the former basketball, softball and track star. "She's had a tremendous influence on me."
As did his siblings, Kristen (now 28) and E.J. (now 24).
Kristen was a softball standout at Ohio University, but she wanted to be a boxer.
"Tommy started to box when he was 9 and Kristen was 17. When she found out where Tommy was going to box, she snuck in to learn too," Ed said. "And I'm talking to the guy running the place about how Tommy's coming along, and he tells me how good Kristen is. That's how I found out about it. I said, 'please, stop it.'
"She's a pistol. She should have been a boy. I have more problems with her than I do with my boys. Figure that one out. So Tommy had to be tough, because he had a sister who was a wacko and a brother who went through all kinds of different stuff. No one had to say, 'Tommy, you have to be tough' or 'Tommy you have to dedicate yourself.' It was all laid out in front of him beforehand."
* * *
E.J., which stands for Edmund Joseph, was diagnosed with a brain tumor when he was 5 and toddling Tommy was just learning how to launch food from his high chair.
Seizures came along with the tumor, which prompted the family to take E.J. to the renowned Mayo Clinic. A year later, after the tumor continued to grow and the seizures became worse, E.J. underwent his first operation.
"The tumor was removed," Ed said, "but three years later, it had grown back and we were just beside ourselves."
A second surgery ensued, this one a more daring and untested procedure, but this time the cancer cells never grew back. The seizures, though, lingered for a while. And young E.J. dealt with them while playing sports.
"It wasn't embarrassing for him, but it was not something most people would put up with," Ed said. "He would be out there playing and all of a sudden fall to the ground. People would be like, 'Oh my God, what's going on?' I kept asking E.J., 'Are you sure you still want to do this?' And he was always very sure he wanted to.
"Tommy was young, but he knew what was going on. He always says, 'With what my brother went through, for me to complain about anything, I can't do it.' "
* * *
Overcoming the seizures became inspiration for E.J. Zbikowski to stalk his dreams with unbridled hope. Eventually, the seizures went away, but so did many of the opportunities to play sports on the collegiate level for the 6-foot-5 ball of determination.
He dabbled in football at Winona State and in junior college baseball, showing sparks of greatness in both in relative obscurity, but never experienced the momentous recruiting chase that Tom would later enjoy.
"That's why when ESPN.com approached us about Tommy doing a recruiting diary, we agreed to it -- but on certain conditions," Ed said. "I had two great athletes before Tommy -- E.J. and Kristen -- and they really didn't get the opportunities they should have, because I knew nothing about the process. I blame myself.
"So I said, 'That's never going to happen again.' I talked to the guy at ESPN and told him I wanted this to be a vehicle for other parents to understand the recruiting game. And I wanted it to come from the heart."
Tom's candor, though, sometimes prompted scathing criticism, primarily from sports talk radio callers and Internet message board posters. Even Notre Dame fans recoiled at how lukewarm he seemed to be about his scholarship offer from the school.
"It became a problem, really, because (then-recruiting coordinator) Greg Mattison and Tyrone Willingham kind of soft-played him," Ed said. "They offered him a scholarship, but there wasn't that feeling that you really were wanted. It was like, 'You're our guy, and we want you to come.' Then they'd never call anymore. And yet you'd have (Iowa head coach) Kirk Ferentz sitting in your kitchen, breaking bread with you. It wasn't an easy situation at all."
Nor has been playing for three different defensive backs coaches in three years at ND or injuries suffered last season that Tom played through but never told the media about or the growing pains that come with evolving at his position.
"We know Tommy will make a great play and he'll miss a play," Ed said. "You've got to take the good with the bad, that's the way we've always lived our lives. But he's out there competing, trying to get better. And he's not afraid to take criticism. That's made him the player he is and gives him a chance to keep getting better.
"Hey, as a father you hear that stuff from the talking heads on TV, and it doesn't feel great. But that's their job. They can say what they want. I realize their job isn't to make Ed Zbikowski happy. But Tommy knows his job too.
"In our family, you get knocked down, you better get your ass back up. And that's the one thing no one can ever take away from Tommy."
wow, great article, Southern Knight! it just goes to show to what extent white athletes are profiled away from stardom and words like: athletic, fast, quick, agile etc...
i am still glad he made it and showed everyone an athlete he really is... had he been black, he would be the second to none and highly heralded out of college
i am still glad he made it and showed everyone an athlete he really is... had he been black, he would be the second to none and highly heralded out of college
Southern Knight, do you have a url or link for the article? I'd like to run it on the homepage.
Don Wassall said:
Try this.
[url]http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2 0051230/NDSports02/51230020&SearchID=73231650652291 [/url]
Thanks, Bart!
Great find. A "recruiting analyst" says exactly what we all know, but what so many people refuse to believe:
"When it comes to football, white athletes have to prove themselves more than black athletes at certain positions -- cornerback, wide receiver and running back," Lemming said. "There's a prejudice amongst a lot of college coaches -- not all of them -- that white guys can't play those positions. So when they get to college, they get switched right away to other positions.
That's the Caste System. Pure and simple. If he's right, then it exists. It's not just us wacko right wingers in cyberspace.
We also have even more reason to suspect the white-friendly-black-coach myth that Don has argued against. We have Lovie Smith calling Brock Forsey a waterboy, Brandon Stokley disappearing in Tony Dungy's offense, and now Tyrone Willingham not giving Tommy Z a chance at CB because he doesn't have "loose hips." What a joke.
Hopefully the facade is crumbling. We'll see.
"When it comes to football, white athletes have to prove themselves more than black athletes at certain positions -- cornerback, wide receiver and running back," Lemming said. "There's a prejudice amongst a lot of college coaches -- not all of them -- that white guys can't play those positions. So when they get to college, they get switched right away to other positions.
That's the Caste System. Pure and simple. If he's right, then it exists. It's not just us wacko right wingers in cyberspace.
We also have even more reason to suspect the white-friendly-black-coach myth that Don has argued against. We have Lovie Smith calling Brock Forsey a waterboy, Brandon Stokley disappearing in Tony Dungy's offense, and now Tyrone Willingham not giving Tommy Z a chance at CB because he doesn't have "loose hips." What a joke.
Hopefully the facade is crumbling. We'll see.
JD074 said:
Lemming may be willing to speak a bit of the truth, but he is a willing perpetrator of the Caste System himself through his recruiting service. I remember checking one out when Zbikowski was a high school senior, and he was listed as a safety prospect even then though his 40 time (listed at 4.3) was faster than that of any of the cornerback prospects. It was so obviously and blatantly racist that his name always stuck with me.
I discovered Zbikowski when I was checking out how they were rating a kid from the Pittsburgh area, Brad Mueller, who was an outstanding tailback who was also a state champion sprinter. Mueller was of course recruited by no I-A schools to play running back and ended up going to Boston College -- as a safety.
White Shogun
Hall of Famer
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- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
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Funny that a guy who would list a blazing fast cornerback as a safety, simply because he is white, would have the last name, "Lemming".
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
Good one White Shogun! That is a pretty eye opening article for those who are new to anti-white discrimination in sports. We all knew the lie that was being used to say whites do not have hip-swivility!
white tornado
Mentor
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2005
- Messages
- 617
I played with a Db in high school who was an athletic freak with 4.3 speed, he could have been another zib but he was tierd of dealing with the caste system so he quit football. He was the better athlete than the four Div-1 Dbs Ive played with, and a four year stater. This guy was the fastes guy on our team and ran the 100 on our all black track team.
The article on Tommy Z is an important step in the fight against the caste system. It is one of the few times that a mainstream media outlet has illustrated the kinds of discrimination that we point out on this site.
The article itself is quite damning of the college recruitment process. Imagine if the discrimination were reversed, you would have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton screaming at camera's across America. In any venue other then sports even a white man would have an possible lawsuit involving a denial of basic civil rights.
It is very important to have sports fans see and read of this kind of treatment to white athletes. While we at this site are very aware of the current situation most sports fans are totally blind to it. Life is often an attempt to ignore unpleasant realities and the caste system is one of those cases that white fans would rather not look too closely at. As more and more of these stories come out it will eventually be impossible to ignore.
The South Bend newspaper is essentially the "company newsletter" as far as ND athletics is concerned. We are all aware of the intense national following of the Fighting Irish due to their tradition and catholic association so this story will be read across the country.
I would also like to mention that I have exchanged emails with a writer on that paper, not the listed author of the article, but undoubtedly writers talk with each other. That means that it is possible that this website consciously or subconsciously may have influenced that article.
We here should understand that we are the spokesmen for a growing percentage of sports fans. What that percentage is I have no idea, but I'd wager it is significant, and growing. What we write and post here is the ONLY place on the net with this viewpoint and therefore if you want to be heard on this issue, this is the place. It also means that if someone in the media wants to find out what fans like us are thinking, they must come here.
I have also corresponded with other sportswriters from other media outlets. Make no mistake, thousands of people visit our site and many of them are in the media. And contrary to the idea that all media people are brainwashed lemmings following the PC ideals, the truth is that many of them are stuck in the same rut as us, often forced to remain quiet lest the results effect them financially and socially.
People often dismiss sports as mindless entertainment or mental "junk food" but look at the investment in time, money, and emotion that so many people make in it. It is a very powerful medium and the sooner "our side" understands that, the better.
I have also mentioned all this to remind everyone that we are representing an issue and a number of people who have no voice, or for one reason or another are reluctant to speak out. Fortunately we have been polite and well-spoken for the most part. It is important that we continue in that manner. I would not try to influence what people say but I would hope that our posters remember to address controversial issues in a civilized manner.
I should think that the article posted above is very good news for us. It is one of the important steps in moving sports in a more fair direction. We are the customers of the sports establishment and we WILL be heard. They say that the customer is always right. That is certainly the case here.
The article itself is quite damning of the college recruitment process. Imagine if the discrimination were reversed, you would have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton screaming at camera's across America. In any venue other then sports even a white man would have an possible lawsuit involving a denial of basic civil rights.
It is very important to have sports fans see and read of this kind of treatment to white athletes. While we at this site are very aware of the current situation most sports fans are totally blind to it. Life is often an attempt to ignore unpleasant realities and the caste system is one of those cases that white fans would rather not look too closely at. As more and more of these stories come out it will eventually be impossible to ignore.
The South Bend newspaper is essentially the "company newsletter" as far as ND athletics is concerned. We are all aware of the intense national following of the Fighting Irish due to their tradition and catholic association so this story will be read across the country.
I would also like to mention that I have exchanged emails with a writer on that paper, not the listed author of the article, but undoubtedly writers talk with each other. That means that it is possible that this website consciously or subconsciously may have influenced that article.
We here should understand that we are the spokesmen for a growing percentage of sports fans. What that percentage is I have no idea, but I'd wager it is significant, and growing. What we write and post here is the ONLY place on the net with this viewpoint and therefore if you want to be heard on this issue, this is the place. It also means that if someone in the media wants to find out what fans like us are thinking, they must come here.
I have also corresponded with other sportswriters from other media outlets. Make no mistake, thousands of people visit our site and many of them are in the media. And contrary to the idea that all media people are brainwashed lemmings following the PC ideals, the truth is that many of them are stuck in the same rut as us, often forced to remain quiet lest the results effect them financially and socially.
People often dismiss sports as mindless entertainment or mental "junk food" but look at the investment in time, money, and emotion that so many people make in it. It is a very powerful medium and the sooner "our side" understands that, the better.
I have also mentioned all this to remind everyone that we are representing an issue and a number of people who have no voice, or for one reason or another are reluctant to speak out. Fortunately we have been polite and well-spoken for the most part. It is important that we continue in that manner. I would not try to influence what people say but I would hope that our posters remember to address controversial issues in a civilized manner.
I should think that the article posted above is very good news for us. It is one of the important steps in moving sports in a more fair direction. We are the customers of the sports establishment and we WILL be heard. They say that the customer is always right. That is certainly the case here.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
The only place on this site where you can see Confederate images besides my avatar is in an old thread about Confederate flags. I think we could all use a little more education as to what the Confederate flag really means and lets be honest, if someone coming to this site sees my avatar and leaves because they are offended, they would not have spent much time on the site anyway, especially when they see how "against the grain" much of what we write is.