NBA 2008

[Guest]

Although not a white friendly league, the NBA still has many white players, and a small number of teams, to root for.

Out of the 97 total white players in the NBA, there are still more American whites than foreign whites, 55 to 42. Total list at end of post for everyone to verify and note corrections where needed. Note, I am not including Jason Kidd, Jordan Farmar, or Mike Bibby, but am including Haddadi.

American whites account for 17 PowerForwards, 14 Centers, 9 SmallForwards, 8 PointGuards, and 7 ShootingGuards.

Foreign whites account for 16 Centers, 7 PowerForwards, 7 PointGuards, 6 SmallForwards, and 6 ShootingGuards.

Indiana can probably be called the most non-caste team in the league this year, being the only team with 3 white starters (Nesterovich, Murphy, Dunleavy). Indiana plays with 6 whites total (with backups Foster, Diener, McRoberts).

Portland, shockingly, is the whitest team in the league, with 7 whites total, but with only one starter (Blake) and six off the bench (Rudy Fernandez, Sean Hill, Luke Jackson, Rodriguez, Pryzbilla, LaFrentz).

Utah has six total whites, with 2 white starters (Kirilenko and Okur) and 4 bench guys (Korver, Harpring, Fesenko, Koufos).

The Lakers have 6 whites total, with one starter, Pau Gasol, and five off the bench (Walton, Vujacic, Radmanovic, Mihm, Karl). Last year, their second unit would often play extremely well, widening leads, sometimes playing 5 whites at a time, so that is a good thing to root for.But of course, all the credit will go to K Bryant, even when the team plays better with him out, so that pretty much sucks from a non-caste standpoint.

Toronto is no longer a standard-bearing non-caste team, starting only 1 white (Jose Calderon). Although with 4 whites coming off the bench for significant minutes (Bargnani, Humphries, Kapono, Ukic), they are still ahead of the curve.

Cleveland is among the whitest overall teams, with 5 white players, 2 starters (Ilgauskas, Szczerbiak) and 3 backups (Varejao, Pavlovic, Alred).


Other teams with two white starters:
Sacramento, with Brad Miller and Udric (3 total with Spencer Hawes),
San Antonio with Oberto and Ginobili (3 total with Bonner),
maybe Minnesota, if Love starts with Mike Miller (5 total with Madsen, Doleac, Cardinal).

Phoenix also has five whites, with Nash starting and four backups (Amundson, Dragic, Piatkowski, Robin Lopez).

In Milwaukie, Ridnour could easily grab the starting spot at PG, making two white starters along with Bogut at C, with 4 whites total including backups Joe Alexander and Voskuhl .

Memphis is not a non-caste team anymore, going white at C (Miliic, Gasol, and Haddadi) but only one white otherwise (M Jaric).

Teams with one white starter and 3 whites on the bench include the Clippers, Warriors, and Magic.

Less than that, why even mention.

nameteam pos
Ahmed Haddadi MEMC
Austin Croshere GSWPF
Adam Morrison CHASF
Aleksandar Pavlovic CLESG
Anderson Varejao CLEPF
Andrea Bargnani TORPF
Andrei Kirilenko UTASF
Andres Nocioni CHIPF
Andrew Bogut MILC
Andris Biedrins GSWC
Beno Udrih SACPG
Blake Ahearn MIAPG
Brad Miller SAC C
Brent Barry HOUSG
Brian Cardinal MINPF
Brian Scalabrine BOSPF
Brook Lopez NJNC
Casey Jacobsen MEMSG
Chris Andersen DENPF
Chris Humphreys TORPF
Chris Kaman LACC
Chris MihmLALC
Chris Quinn MIAPG
Coby Karl LALSG
Dan Dickau LACPG
Danilo GallinariNYK SG
Darius SongailaWASP F
Darko MilicicMEMC
David Lee NYKPF
Dirk NowitzkiDALP F
E Piatkowski PHXSF
Eduardo NajeraNJNPF
Fabricio ObertoSASC
Goran DragicPHXPG
Hedo TurkogluORLS F
Jake Voskuhl MILC
Jason Kapono TORSF
Jason Williams LACPG
Jeff Foster INDC
JJ Redick ORLSG
Joe Alexander MILSF
Joel Przybilla PORC
Jose BareaDALPG
Josh McRobertsIND PF
Kevin Love MINPF
Kirk Hinrich CHIPG
Kosta KoufosUTAC
Kosta PerovicGSWC
Kyle Korver UTASG
Kyrylo FesenkoUTAC
Lance Alred CLEC
Linas KleizaDENSF
Louis Amundson PHXPF
Luis ScolaHOUPF
Luke Jackson PORSF
Luke Ridnour MILPG
Luke Walton LALSF
Manu GinobiliSASS G
Marc GasolMEMC
Marcin GortatORLC
Marco BelinelliGSW SG
Mark MadsenMINPF
Marko JaricMEMSG
Matt BonnerSASPF
Matt Carroll CHASG
Matt Harpring UTASF
Mehmet OkurUTAC
Michael Doleac MINC
Mike Dunleavy INDSF
Mike Miller MINSG
Nick Collison OKTPF
Nick FazekasLACPF
Oleksiy Pecherov WASC
Pat Garrity ORLPF
Pau GasolLALC
Peja StojakovicNOH&nbsp ;SF
R LaFrentzPORC
Rasho Nesterovich INDC
Robert Swift OKTC
Robin Lopez PHXC
Roko UkicTORPG
Rudy FernandezPOR SG
Ryan Anderson NJNPF
Sasha VujacicLALPG
Scott Pollard BOSPF
Sean Hill PORC
Sergio Rodriguez PORPG
Spencer Hawes SACC
Steve Blake PORPG
Steve NashPHXPG
Travis Diener INDPG
Troy Murphy INDPF
Vladimir Radmanovic LALSF
Wally Szczerbiak CLESF
Walter HermannDETSF
Zaza PachuliaATLC
Zydrunas Ilgauskas CLEC

 

[Liverlips]

Great list! What percent does that make whites? Is it going up? Sorry to ask but I am not a big fan of the NBA.

 

[PhillyBirds]

My hometown 76ers lost their only white player from last year, Jason Smith, to a season-ending ACL injury. Yipee.Edited by: PhillyBirds

 

[ThatBlackGuy]

My hometown 76ers lost their only white player from last year, Jason Smith, to a season-ending ACL injury. Yipee.

76ers have hope though, its a weak division and you got a good character and leader with elton brand, i know its dissapointing to not have one player on your team who looks like you, but at the least, its a good core of players.

 

[PhillyBirds]

Yeah, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited about the Brand deal. Jason Smith was a good player, who got significant time last year and I'm just a little bummed.

 

[Guest]

Great list! What percent does that make whites? Is it going up? Sorry to ask but I am not a big fan of the NBA.

Thanks, LL. I am not sure if that is going up or down, as I don't have the historical data.

 

[foobar75]

It probably continues to be in the 75-25 range. It peaked at around 80-20 for a while, but then stabilized again recently.


In a country with a 67& white population (75% if you include Hispanic Whites), it's beyond imagination that both the NFL and the NBA continue be ~75% black.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Elton Brand is a heck of a player, but i find it interesting that he was given a tremendous amount of respect and playing time coming out of college while other (read: white) players of similar stature and playing style in recent years were all labeled as "tweeners" and either allocated to the end of the bench or ignored by the NBA altogether.

Brand, of course, was treated nothing like that. getting a fair opportunity certainly makes a difference in the end result.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

89Glory,

there are some threads from the past few years that discuss the NBA team-by-team. you should be able to quickly do at least a short study on the treatment of the white-black situation of the recent past.

 

[bigunreal]

The Bucks could really be something special this season. If Joe Alexander starts (and why shouldn't he?), that would give them 3 white starters (with Bogut and Ridenaur) who are all potential stars. Edited by: bigunreal

 

[Guest]

The Bucks could really be something special this season. If Joe Alexander starts (and why shouldn't he?), that would give them 3 white starters (with Bogut and Ridenaur) who are all potential stars.

I was trying to wrap my mind around that too, bigun, but the problem is that Joe is behind R Jefferson at SF and looking at M Redd at SG. There is no way he is going to dislodge either of them from the starting spot. Hopefully he can log serious minutes behind them spelling them both, but it is definitely not the ideal situation for him. Worst case scenario he could be limited to under 10 minutes a game. Will they go small and play him alongside those two? I don't follow the Bucks so I don't know how that is going to work out, but sitting behind Jefferson, whom they just made a big trade for, is not a formula for lots of playing time.

 

[foobar75]

The Bucks could really be something special this season. If Joe Alexander starts (and why shouldn't he?), that would give them 3 white starters (with Bogut and Ridenaur) who are all potential stars.

Ridnour a potential all-star? Please, lay-off the crack, it's not helping you.


Bogut and Alexander, on the other hand, are definitely potential all-stars. Bogut this year, and Joe in 2-3 years time, if he gets theplaying time and show what he cando.

 

[Guest]

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Orlando Magic forward Pat Garrity is retiring from the NBA.

Garrity played 10 pro seasons - nine with the Magic - after spending his rookie year with the Phoenix Suns. He appeared in 513 games for Orlando, second most in franchise history.

The 32-year-old player from Notre Dame was a free agent after last season.

Garrity averaged 7.3 points in 20 minutes a game. He led Orlando in 3-point shooting from 1999 to 2003.

 

[Guest]

Ridnour a potential all-star? Please, lay-off the crack, it's not helping you.

Let's compare 3rd and 4th year stats, shall we?
Steve Nash
year 3 --> 7.9 PPG, 5.5 APG, 31.7 MPG
year 4 --> 8.6 PPG, 4.9 APG, 27.4 MPG

Luke Ridnour
year 3 --> 11.5 PPG, 7.0 APG, 33.2 MPG
year 4 --> 11.0 PPG, 5.2 APG, 29.5 MPG

Why are you hating on Luke? He was a national team invitee, and as you can see, had better stats than a comparable future 2-time MVP.

Hopefully, he can bounce back from a downer fifth year in the league on his new team.

Seriously, foobar, take your hater attitude elsewhere.

 

[foobar75]

I don't hate Luke Ridnour. I simply do not share the assessment that he's a potential all-star.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

A good player who is starting caliber, but I don't know about a potential all-star either. The other American player Kirk Heinrich from the same draft is definitely a potential all-star though. Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Orlando Magic forward Pat Garrity is retiring from the NBA.

Garrity played 10 pro seasons - nine with the Magic - after spending his rookie year with the Phoenix Suns. He appeared in 513 games for Orlando, second most in franchise history.

The 32-year-old player from Notre Dame was a free agent after last season.

Garrity averaged 7.3 points in 20 minutes a game. He led Orlando in 3-point shooting from 1999 to 2003.

I agree that Bogut will be and Alexander has that potential if his game progresses. And we will have lots of good PGs to cheer for even if Ridnour doesn't ever make all-star. Ricky Rubio will be a perennial all-star if the system lets him.

 

[foobar75]

A good starting caliber player, but I don't know about a potential all-star either. The other American player Kirk Heinrich from the same draft is definitely a potential all-star though.

Agreed, Kirk Heinrich is a very legit starting PG in the NBA, and just a level below all-star caliber in my estimation. But now that the Bulls have drafted over-hyped rookie Derrick Rose, I hope Heinrich can find a new home and continue to develop his game. He was one of the last players cut from Team USA before the '08 Olympics.


As for Ridnour, being from Seattle, I had a good chance to follow his career for 5 years. Yes, he can start forsome teams and can also be a solid back-up on others. He lacks the overall consistency, outside shooting, and defense to ever become an all-star.

 

[ThatBlackGuy]

Elton Brand is a heck of a player, but i find it interesting that he was given a tremendous amount of respect and playing time coming out of college while other (read: white) players of similar stature and playing style in recent years were all labeled as "tweeners" and either allocated to the end of the bench or ignored by the NBA altogether.



Brand, of course, was treated nothing like that. getting a fair opportunity certainly makes a difference in the end result.

Brand is a garunteed 20 and 10 guy and basically has averaged that his whole career, which white players were ignored or relagated that averaged this or were capable but were held back?

 

[whiteathlete33]

That BLACKGUY, every white player gets some kind of label while Brand is described as "athletic." Tyler Hansborough is a monster yet the media says his athletic ability is only average. Jason Smith is another good athlete who doesn't get credit. The lists go on and on. Guys like Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki are always said to be "overrated because they are white."

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Actually Tyler Hansborough is about the same size as Brand and a similar player. They are both good, but not freak athletes for the NBA level, but somewhat undersized for today's PFs. Hanborough has got an almost super human feel for the game though. He also gets a lot of help blocks and even steals and such at NC. If an NBA team gives Hanborough a chance to start and be a focal point of the offense, Hansborough could basically be Brand with a different pigment.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

you make a good point, TJR. but while Brand has never been denounced because of his lack of athleticism, that is said almost as a knee-jerk reaction by NBA scouts when talking of Hansbrough. "weird," huh?

however, to respond to thatblackguy i want to make sure i get his question right...

Brand is a garunteed 20 and 10 guy and basically has averaged that his whole career, which white players were ignored or relagated that averaged this or were capable but were held back?

honestly, i appreciate your thoughtful queries. but i really don't know why you insist on questioning my knowledge of the collegiate game/players when you admit to having very little knowledge of it yourself. even when i point out facts, you don't admit/know that i'm right. but i'll try to answer in such a way that your knowledge will be sufficient. no offense intended.

firstly, every player that was ignored/relegated/etc. comes up short to Brand's numbers, of course!

doing what Brand does in the NBA is impossible if one isn't playing a lot of minutes in the NBA.

however, there are more than sufficient players available to explain my point. hopefully, you are aware of them (i will keep the recounting brief, but if you want more i can provide them). i will provide links, as well, so you can see the numbers for yourself. i tend to get bored with posts that become too stat heavy, though to prove my point this one will have more than i care for.

secondly, as you say, Elton Brand has averaged roughly 20-10 in his NBA career, without a doubt a stellar one. he is a very, very good player. however, he has never been pigeon-holed on the end of the bench for his lack of athleticism.

he plays very, very well, but he is short, slow-footed, and plays below the rim. however, this combination didn't keep him from being picked #1 overall nor has it prevented him from being a starter since day one in the NBA. he (and his short, slow, below-the-rim, but very effective game) has rightly been given the credit deserved.

now let's just look at two white players (both of whom you should know very well) who weren't afforded such respect ...

candidate #1:
Casey Calvary, as you probably realize by now, is one of my all-time favorite players. just like Brand, Calvary was a powerfully built 6-8 power forward, which is a bit under-tall for the NBA. Like Brand, Calvary was a dominant scorer who shot a high percentage and was an intimidating shot blocker. Calvary wasn't as good a rebounder as Brand, however, though Calvary was quicker, had a better jumper (with range out past the 3-point line), and was an elite leaper.

he wasn't drafted at all and has never played a single minute in an NBA game.

candidate #2 is someone i think you've even mentioned before.
Troy Murphy, is like Brand in many, many ways (except of course the important category of melanin content). like Brand, Murphy is a slow, below-the-rim power forward who shoots a high percentage, is a good passer for a post player, and is a dominant rebounder. also like Brand, Murphy came out of college early after being a consensus-All American. only Murphy was named the honor twice (he came out after his junior year), whereas Brand came out after his sophomore season (and thus was only a consensus AA one time).

unlike Brand, however, Murphy is not much of a shot-blocker. unlike Brand, Murphy is a 3-point threat. unlike Brand, Murphy is 6-11. also unlike Brand, Murphy "strangely" did not enter the NBA with a lot of hoopla. he fell to #14 in the 2001 NBA draft, only started 4 times as a rookie, and was immediately labeled a soft, slow, white, bust.

Murphy's career numbers don't match Brand's, but there are three main reasons for that. 1) he sat the pine a lot for Golden State early in his career, 2) injuries, including nearly the whole 03-04 season, and 3) he was the white guy on an otherwise nearly all-black Warriors team that was terrible and rarely had plays ran for him.

but let's look at his numbers more closely. i think you'll see he is a comparable player when he actually gets minutes.

in Murphy's second season, while he still primarily came off the bench, he averaged a double/double, one of only five players to do so (Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Jermaine O'Neal, and Brian Grant). his 10.2 rebounds-per-game was tied for 5th in the NBA. despite not being a "go to" player and primarily coming off the bench, Murphy led or tied the team in points five times, rebounds 46 times, steals 14 times, blocks five times, and had 37 double-doubles. not too bad, eh?

despite this, he was still labeled a soft, slow, white, bust.

in 03-04 he only played in 28 games due to twice being undercut on dunk attempts resulting in nasty falls. even when playing, he wasn't himself, averaging just 10 points and a hair over 6 boards. and like the previous two seasons he didn't get starter's minutes (averaging just under 22 per game). he was still labeled a soft, slow, white, bust.

he bounced back the following season and had a great year for the still-bad, and still-very-black Warriors. still not a focal point of their offense, he managed to average career-highs in minutes played, points (15.4), and rebounds (10.8). he was one of only 10 NBA players to average a double-double. he was 5th in the league in rebounding.

despite this, he was still labeled a soft, slow, white, bust.

the next year (05-06), again on a terrible, nearly all-black team, he averaged a double-double. one of only six players to do so. and he was 6th in the league in rebounding.

despite this, he was still labeled as a soft, slow, white, bust.

Murphy dealt with multiple injuries in 06-07, though he played through most of them, and he was dealt from Golden State to Indiana. his numbers fell across the board during this injury-plagued season.

he was still labeled as a soft, slow, white, bust.

he bounced back somewhat last year, though he still missed a handful of games. while his rebounding numbers were below his high standard, he again looked to be a capable scorer and set career-highs in assists.

so you can see that when Murphy has been healthy and gotten minutes, his numbers are very, very similar to Brand's. however, unlike Brand, he has never been in a position to succeed individually, nor has he ever received the acclaim of the similarly-styled Brand, even considering that both play for small market teams.

i forget... how many all-star nods and national team invites has Murphy received? how many has Brand had? see my point yet?

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Very good comparison on Troy Murphy and Calvary JC. And yes I completely agree; white players are rarely considered the go-to guy for a black offense, even when they shoot the highest percentage of the starters, which surprisingly happens often. I also believe Hansborough will test out athletically pretty well and overall when you add in his strength, instincts and great hand-eye coordination he is a good athlete and could be a good NBA player. I predict about a 35 inch vertical or so from Tyler, which is undoubtedly above average for PFs who test out. He will also test out pretty well in the 3/4 court sprint ala Kevin Love. Still Tyler will be labeled a slow, overachieving, undersized white bust waiting to happen in the NBA. I would be surprised if he gets the chance that Love looks to be getting.

But I will make some concessions black guy, when discussing Ridnour, he is only a solid starter b/c he is a defensive liability, but this does not mean all white guards are defensive liabilities. You ridiculously mention Heinrich as a bad defender when that is one of his strengths.