David Ortiz

[Weltner]

The media,of course,just has multiple orgasms over "big papi",because he's had about haf-a-dozen game winning hits so far this season,especially with home runs.Well if he's so great,why doesn't he play DEFENSE?He's black,isn't he?Aren't they THE Greatest Athletes in the world?Aren't they flawless and perfect at sports?Don't they leave every other race in the dust in sports?He's nothing but a black Edgar Martinez,and further evidence of the joke that is American League baseball.

Edited by: Weltner

 

[Impi]

If a player, regardless of race, is leading the American League in
rbi's and is second in home runs, why should he not be included in the
All Star Game. I can understand the displeasure of a DH getting
the All Star nod, but when you tear the cover off of the ball the way
he does, there is not much of a question. I agree that DH is a
questionable position in baseball, but David Ortiz did not make up the
rule, so why direct anger towards him?

 

[Bear-Arms]

Impi, you missed the point. Why should a black player ever have to play DH? They have so much more raw talent than white players.

 

[white is right]

Ortiz can't play anything but first because he probably has a three illegal Dominicans in his belly.....

 

[ocaamikedm11]

I think they should either put the DH in both leagues, or eliminate it altogether... it's kind of ridiculous to not have the pitcher bat in my opinion, why should American league teams get a free pass all year on it?

 

[Impi]

It was never stated that black players have more "raw talent" than any
other races. As everyone knows, David Ortiz is primarily a DH
because he is a horrible defensive first baseman. Unfortunately,
my favorite team happens to be the Royals and I would love to have a
non-defense playing athlete like Ortiz to drive in numerous runs and
come through in the clutch night after night.

 

[Weltner]

It was never stated that black players have more "raw talent" than any
other races.


Oh yes,it has been stated in the past;all kinds of sportswriters,as well as hateful smarmy intellectuals,comedians,radicals,especially whenever they appear on TV,any opportunity to exacerbate and agitate Whitey.Therefore,no black athlete should have any problem playing offense and defense - right?

Edited by: Weltner

 

[Impi]

I guess I should have clarified. I never stated that athletes of any
race were superior to others. I have not annointed the media as
my personal mouthpiece. I believe there are great athletes, great
intellectuals, and all around great people in all races just like there
are rotten people in all of those categories. I think we have
gotten away from the topic, which is questioning Ortiz's All Star
status. Fact, the American League has the DH rule (like it or
not) which is taken advantage of by numerous players despite their
race. I'm sure both Thome (one of my favorites) and Hafner
appreciate the DH as it will extend their careers and potentially put
Thome in the Hall of Fame someday. Fact, David Ortiz presently
leads the American League in home runs, and is second in rbi's and is
among the leaders in walks, hits, and total bases. Without using
the media as the source of your anger, and understanding that the media
does not think or speak for me, present a reasonable and sensible
argument that places David Ortiz at home during the All Star Game.

 

[Bear-Arms]

Impi, the first post never mentioned that Ortiz didn't belong in All-Star game.

 

[Weltner]

Impi, the first post never mentioned that Ortiz didn't belong in All-Star game.

And I don't,because:

A)He's unable to play defense well,and

B)Well....he's black,and not only should blacks never have been allowed into the ASG, but the sport, or any any sport,itself,nor could ever have invented the sport itself, or anything else that's really useful and substantive to the Real World.

 

[Freedom]

Weltner, point A was fine.
I think point B was cruel and needlessly racist. You can't bar someone from a sport because they're related to people who aren't as prolific in general as whites. There have been many successful blacks and several have contributed to sports. Bob Gibson helped change the game forever along with McClaine(spelling?) and a lot of other pitchers. Willie Mays was one of the great players and earned the respect of Ty Cobb(an unbelievable accomplishment). He also helped bring baseball into a changing world and into the TV era.

Ortiz isn't exactly Bo Jackson

. Somehow black atheltes are exempt from speed criticism. Kevin Millar was constantly criticized for lack of speed.

Ortiz could be a mediocre first basemen if he worked at it.
I've always liked him. He's fat, but he hustles.

 

[Bear-Arms]

Some traditionalist don't like their culture changed. The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra tried to bar asians and women.

 

[JD074]

I think point B was cruel and needlessly racist.

I don't. We should be able to bar whoever we want from whatever we want, for whatever reason. Sports, country clubs, hotels, restaurants, schools, anything. We should be free to do whatever we want. We're held hostage in our own societies. We can't have anything that's our own. Non-whites have to intrude in everything we do. I'm sick of it.

Willie Mays was one of the great players and earned the respect of Ty Cobb(an unbelievable accomplishment). He also helped bring baseball into a changing world and into the TV era.

What the heck is a "changing world?" Less white? Less racist?

 

[Freedom]

I meant "changing world" as the development of cities and suburbs. Also, I meant television. He helped continue baseball's success through television.

He also did absolutely nothing to harm white athletes. White athletes thrived while he played and there was very little or no anti-white bias. If there ever was any anti white bias, he did nothing to perpetuate it.

So what do you possibly have against Mays?


Anyways, if non-whites were barred from competition that would be like giving up and saying that whites weren't as good. Why not show that they are good?

That aside. There shouldn't be any DHs in the All Star game because it should be for all around ball players that can hit, field, and run.Edited by: Freedom

 

[Solomon Kane]

I think people should be free to form (or not to form) uni-racial or multi-racial leaguesas they see fit. That's the right of free association and free use of property.


Major league baseball voluntarily began to allow non-whites into baseball. There was no law requiring the Dodgers to sign Robinson. If certain franchises didn't like it, they had a perfect liberty toleave, and join or help to form another league--an all white league. If the league itself didn't like it, they could suppress it through the comissioner or through the collective pressure of the objecting owners. The fact is---the consensus was that it was in the best interests of baseball to allow non-whites to try to enter the league. I stress "allow" since America still thought in terms of a meritocracy back then.


I think that most caste posters who are baseball fans welcome non-whites "trying out" for spots on the roster. If they make it and become stars, well and good. Does anybody think thatMays, Tony Perezand Ernie Banks were bad for baseball?I agree with Freedom.


I also agree with Freedom that if whites barred others from even competing, that would be in effect admitting that we are inferior. We are not inferior. Whatthis site is concerned with, it seems to me, isreturning to a true meritocracy, which in the present historical context means, a system in which whites are not artifically funnelled into certain roles, and forced to suppress or re-direct the drive and direction of their talents. We also want an end to affirmative action for non-whites, to GM's seeking to Hispanicize their teams, to assumptions that whites can't be speedsters, etc., etc. If we did all of this (and if whites started having more babies) you would probably see a return to the sort of racial proportionswhich prevailed in the past in MLB.


I haven't noticed any overkill in the praise accorded Ortiz---he is being lionized because he has 31 homers and 85+ RBIs. As for the DH issue, Ortiz is simply taking advantage of the rules as they are now---as any sane good hit/no field white man would as well (as Impi pointed out). He is being paid to hit and he is hitting well. If a white version of Big Papi put up his numbers, the media would be lionizing himtoo---and ignoring the no-field issue as well.

 

[jaxvid]

While I agree with some of what the last couple of posters have said here is where I differ. Firstly white and black people can never mix without it being disasterous to white people as a group. That is because black people have a way of behaving that is culturally and genenticlly based that will wreck white institutions which are set up for white people and their particular cultural and genetic survival strategies.

It's really that simple. Our societies and cultures are being wrecked and will eventually collapse as long as they are filled with non-whites. That is how nature works. It allows a group to set up a system that insures its survival, if another group intrudes and is allowed to set up their own system then the first group is at such a disadvantage that it is eventually weeded out of the gene pool. Failing some last minute miracle we are that group that will be replaced.

Once you understand that that is how it works, it puts something like Jackie Robinson or Willie Mays into perspective. Sure they are good, and maybe good people. Eventually however they will bring along their friends and relatives and destroy the game. [White Savage has also posted along these lines.] Thus the concept of "fairness" or "equality" also means the end of your people. But "Say Hey Kid!!!"

It took me a while to understand the "segregation" mentality of white people from a couple generations ago as I was raised to believe in white disposition, er excuse me I mean: "racial equality". The reason those generations did not want to associate with blacks is because they valued their own survival, I think most of them felt this intuitively and did not realize it as a conscious thing but, no difference, it worked for them. That is all gone now though.

We now live in a world where you can have a web site EXPRESSLY for the support of white athletes, and if a poster dares post that he does not want blacks playing in the recreational activities that were wholly created and developed by his people, for his people, and of his people, then he is sure to have some of the other "racially aware" people lecture him on how he has to be "fair" and acquiesce in the destruction of his own culture. That is one of the reasons why we are doomed.

The only proper way to look at the issue from a survival standpoint is to say unequivocally: NO BLACKS. They can form their own teams, their own leagues, and games between the two can even be arranged for entertainment. But there is no damn point in the world to actually play "with" them. They are not on our team, they do not consider themselves part of our team, and to force us together as teammates is a false idea and will only lead in the long run to our own destruction.

 

[Realgeorge]

Hi Jaxvid

You are refreshingly correct. I stand with you. May we somehow achieve that miracle.

 

[Solomon Kane]

I just want to emphasize that I am not a social integrationist. I believe that the races ought to keep a polite distance from each other---basically blacks should live in their neighborhoods and attend their schools; and whites should live in their neighborhoods and attend their schools. If some whites and some blacks want to experiment with multi-racial neighborhoods and schools, then I guess they are free do so (but I will not be joining them).


However, since both races must "earn a living" it is inevitable that white laborers/office workers/lawyers,etc. will encounter black laborers/office workers/lawyers.etc. But the fact that I work with a black does not mean I want to socialize with him, integrate the neighborhoods, date his daughter, etc. The same ethic applies to the baseball issue. When MLB decided to allow blacks into the league, this social code was still (and rightly) prevalent. Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, etc. were simply co-workers...you worked with them from 6 pm-11 pm and then went back to the white section of Brooklyn. In all other aspects of life, therefore, segregation (or at least the civil right to segregate) was maintained (this was one reason,I think,why southern players and owners accepted the change). White kids could admire a black sportsmen without being corrupted by the integrationist ideology, the notion that one mustsocialize withblacks. This was 1947, but then came unfortunately....


Brown v. Board of Education (1954) which forced the integration of schools, and the whole odious and unjust "Civil rights era" (the 60's and 70's)---which destroyed the rights of free association (and its natural concomitant right-- free disassociation).The once-free citizens of the US could no longer have whites only (or blacks only) hotels, whites only (or blacks only) neighborhoods, segregated lunch-counters, etc.. In other words, their right to do what they wanted with their own property was destroyed, as well any normal, healthy "tribal" sense.


All of this was supplemented later by the stupid "black is cool" mentality which began to pervade sports: which contrasted square, stodgy white sportsmen with hip, flashy, blacks---and so you have major jerks of our time---Ali, Barry Bonds, etc.


I agree with Jaxvid that whites have a right and duty to protect their tribe and culture, and Isay that If the old norm (of de facto segregation outside the work place) cannot be restored, then I wouldsupport a mass exodus of white talentfrom MLB, and the formation of their own league.

 

[jaxvid]

Well put SK! I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Weltner]

Weltner, point A was fine.
I think point B was cruel and needlessly racist. You can't bar someone from a sport because they're related to people who aren't as prolific in general as whites.




Then you do not fully understand what this web site is really about.

 

[JD074]

So what do you possibly have against Mays?

I didn't say anything about Mays. I don't have any strong feelings about him.

Anyways, if non-whites were barred from competition that would be like giving up and saying that whites weren't as good.

No, it only means that I don't like them and I don't want them around us. It's not about competition, "meritocracy," fairness, etc. I could care less about that stuff. As Jaxvid said, the real issue is the survival of our people. I am an advocate of separation from non-whites in every way imaginable.

Edited by: JD074

 

[JD074]

Does anybody think that Mays, Tony Perez and Ernie Banks were bad for baseball?

I don't care what's good or bad for baseball. I only care what's good or bad for my people.

If a white version of Big Papi put up his numbers, the media would be lionizing him too---and ignoring the no-field issue as well.

If you really think that the media would lionize a white athlete as much as a black athlete, assuming similar characteristics, then you probably shouldn't be telling us what "this site is about," for you obviously haven't been paying attention.

Would they call a white man "Big Daddy?" I don't think so.

 

[JD074]

One more.

However, since both races must "earn a living" it is inevitable that white laborers/office workers/lawyers,etc. will encounter black laborers/office workers/lawyers.etc. 

That's the problem with segregation. We need our own nation. Total separation, not partial segregation. There could be some totally voluntary contact through trade and tourism, but that it would be it. The multiracialists could have their own nations as well.

Great post.

 

[Bear-Arms]

Look how Big Daddy changed Manny Ramirez:


He used to be such a nice clean cut young man and now he is just a thug

 

[Solomon Kane]

Just somethoughts on this site, in light of recent criticisms as well as the general discussion.


According to theCaste Football section labeled "About Us"":


"Caste Football looks at the racial dynamics of football and of sports in general. We have no sacred cows we worship, no taboo subjects we won't discuss. We respect the fact that blacks make good football players. But we believe that by looking at football and sports overall through an objective lens rather than simply accepting the propaganda slant of the media, it is clear and obvious that whites are just as good as if not better athletes than blacks.


....Caste Football's goal is to raise the sports I.Q. of its readers, while improving the racial and political awareness of America's sports fans."


I agree with Caste Football's statements. I respect the fact that blacks can make good sportsmen, though whites are just as good(and, who knows, theymay be better). Moreover, I could not find anything in the CF statement which either supported or opposed (partial or total) segregation of blacks and whites---in society or in sports. In fact, the statementis remarkably "unpolitical." It simply points out how white athletes havegotten a raw deal, both in terms of treatment by the media and in terms of athletic development. It wants to raise awareness about this, and about the racial dynamic in sports. Itimplicitly requests a debate about what to do about this state of affairs. I agree with all this.


These common concerns of Caste Football are logically compatible with a variety ofreflective posters: everyone from strict total segregationists (like JD074), near total segregationists (like Jaxvid), to1950's style, customary, "cultural" segregationists (like myself), to white "competitivists"--who aren't directlyinterested in thebroader tribal-national issue, but who simply hopethata resurgence of white athletic pride, coupled with the publicexcellence of whiteathletes (and teams) in competitionwith non-whites,will lead to a restoration of white honor (this may beFreedom's view, but I don't wish to speak for him), all the way to posters who simply don't like to seepeople (in this case whites) unfairly treated (this sentiment, I suspect, animatesthe majority ofposters).


In short, I don't see the site itself as pre-emptivelysidingwith, or even leaning towards, me,JD074, Jaxvid, America,or anyone else.It simply invites a multi-angled discussion on the aforementioned issues--thoughobviously itpresumes a core of agreement about the nature of (and at least some of the solutions to) the present problem.


As to what the concerns of the majority of posters are, I would say that theyseem to bemoreinterested indefending and lifting up the white athlete, fighting for him against an unjust media/caste system, rather than in excluding the non-white athlete (not that there may not be a case for that, at leastin the extreme). But I could be wrong as to whether this is the majority sentiment--as a CF Newbie, I have not followed the site as long as others. And then, of course, there is the obvious point thatbeing a part of the consensus view does not make oneright(or wrong).


In any event, I apologize to any posters who might feel that I have tried to artificially restrict the range of "respectable debate" on these important issues by appealing tosome amorphous, consensusCaste Football "majority opinion."