Ali-Cooper,more chicanery

Bart

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People who don't think Marciano was big enough to defeatAli, forget about Henry Cooper , who weighed 185 lbs. Dundee cuts Ali's glove to save him from defeat


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2000/wembley/934933 .stm


_934933_cooper2_300.jpg
Edited by: Bart
 

White Shogun

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Forget about Henry Cooper? Hell, Bart I had never heard of him til I read your post.

Thanks for posting this.
 

bigunreal

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Bart,



I couldn't open the link you provided, but nothing surprises me about
Ali's fights. My son and I were just watching some of the Al-Wepner
fight (gluttons for punishment) on ESPN Classic. The one round I
watched featured the typical Ali; dancing, clowning, and throwing out
that fantastic left jab of his, which always missed about 90% of the
time. The announcer (not Cosell this time) kept raving about how great
Ali looked, and said he was "giving Wepner a boxing lesson." This
statement proved to be hilarious, because during the last minute of the
round, we counted and Wepner landed 14 straight punches on Ali, without
him retaliating once. Amazingly enough, the announcer appeared not to
notice, just as Cosell never noticed when Oscar Bonavena landed an
incredible 22 straight punches on Ali during their fight. If you can
stand the predictable, fixed outcomes, it is indeed educational to
watch this buffoon's fights, which were all rigged.
 

Bart

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Bugunreal, Here is the brunt of the story.


It was on 18 June 1963 that Henry Cooper's left hand sent a young and up-and-coming boxer called Cassius Clay flat on his back in front of a packed Wembley Stadium.


It looked like Our 'Enry's 'Ammer had totalled the soon-to-become 'greatest heavyweight of all time' Muhammed Ali and the bout was as good as over.


But Cooper's punch had come in the dying seconds of the fourth round and Clay was literally 'saved by the bell.'


There is still a vivid picture in Cooper's mind of that tense moment.


"I remember the punch. I knew when I hit him he was in trouble, but unfortunately it was too late in the round," he recalls.


If that was all there was to the story, Cooper could have few complaints about his subsequent defeat in the next round, but what followed was one of the most glaring controversies ever seen in boxing.



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They did the business on the glove. I've had dinner with him (Dundee) a couple of times since then and he's openly admitted it
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Sir Henry Cooper </TD></TR></T></TABLE>
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With Clay safely in the corner, trainer Angelo Dundee informed the referee of a mysterious split that had appeared in Clay's glove.


Dundee was ordered to get another pair from the dressing room, leaving his fighter a precious few extra minutes to recover before the fifth round started.


For Cooper it was a confusing turn of events.


He admits: "My eye was badly gashed and I knew I was sitting in the corner for more than a minute, but we really didn't know what was going on."


Of course, years later, the truth came out that Dundee had slashed the glove to give Clay more time.
 
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bigunreal said:
Bart,

I couldn't open the link you provided, but nothing surprises me about Ali's fights. My son and I were just watching some of the Al-Wepner fight (gluttons for punishment) on ESPN Classic. The one round I watched featured the typical Ali; dancing, clowning, and throwing out that fantastic left jab of his, which always missed about 90% of the time. The announcer (not Cosell this time) kept raving about how great Ali looked, and said he was "giving Wepner a boxing lesson." This statement proved to be hilarious, because during the last minute of the round, we counted and Wepner landed 14 straight punches on Ali, without him retaliating once. Amazingly enough, the announcer appeared not to notice, just as Cosell never noticed when Oscar Bonavena landed an incredible 22 straight punches on Ali during their fight. If you can stand the predictable, fixed outcomes, it is indeed educational to watch this buffoon's fights, which were all rigged.
In other words Wepner really Beat ali right
smiley36.gif
.


Ali's fights all rigged right ?. I guess Ali nearly did in the 3rd Frazier fight just to rig it right ?. Took monster punches against Foreman when he did'nt have too right ?. Where Tysons fights also all fixed ?. Or Holmes fights ect ?.
 

bigunreal

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Fistfighter-



Boxing is crooked- wake up. It has always been a barbaric game run by
disreputable characters who are not keenly interested in clean and
honest competition. How could you take any business with Don King
playing a prominent role in it seriously? Ali's weren't the only fixed
fights, just the most obvious.



Bart-



Thanks for the background on the Cooper fight. Wow- the
"well-respected" Angelo Dundee now admits he cheated during that fight.
The lame, wanna-be comedians who pose as "journalists" chuckle, if they
react at all. If boxing were an honest business, this admission by
Dundee would be enough to at least ruin his reputation, if not cause
people to wonder about the nature of Ali's victory over Cooper. But
none of this matters, because we are no longer an honest society.
 

Colonel_Reb

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Bigunreal, your right about honesty. Man, people don't care what they tell you these days, just to shut you up and get you off their back. A persons word doesn't mean a thing anymore. It's a shame to, you can't hardly trust anyone.
 

White_Savage

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Fistfighter, if it was some other black fighter being hyped as the "greatest", we wouldn't have as much of the problem. I mean, IMO, Marciano was the "greatest" in terms of probably being nigh-undefeatable in his prime, but I admit he didn't exemply the science of boxing, just the grit and power of fighting. Shouldn't the "Greatest" be a guy who can box AND punch AND take a punch (and maybe, just maybe, not run his mouth too much)? I mean, what about Joe Louis, theres a black guy you can get behind, I admit he was a great fighter. You honestly think Ali would stand a chance against a prime Joe Louis? If not, then why the hell is he "the greatest"
 

Colonel_Reb

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Ok White_Savage, there you go again, thinking fits-fighter can do anything honestly. I don't think he knows the meaning of the word. Just to add to what you said, Clay saying he's the greatest doesn't make it so, as far as i'm concerned its a self given nickname that everyone adopted and over time created a belief that it was true, which is a myth if there ever was one. I too agree that Louis would've beat Clay down in his prime. You can't argue with Louis' overall career as a boxer. He was awesome, and for Clay to be so arrogant that he called himself the greatest is an insult to Lewis and Marciano. It's also one reason I have no problem seeing him suffer in his old age. Call me cruel, but hey, you reap what you sow.
 
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White_Savage said:
Fistfighter, if it was some other black fighter being hyped as the "greatest", we wouldn't have as much of the problem. I mean, IMO, Marciano was the "greatest" in terms of probably being nigh-undefeatable in his prime, but I admit he didn't exemply the science of boxing, just the grit and power of fighting. Shouldn't the "Greatest" be a guy who can box AND punch AND take a punch (and maybe, just maybe, not run his mouth too much)? I mean, what about Joe Louis, theres a black guy you can get behind, I admit he was a great fighter. You honestly think Ali would stand a chance against a prime Joe Louis? If not, then why the hell is he "the greatest"
Ihave Louis as the best HW of all time that does not however diminish Ali's achievements. And Ali would stand a chance to beat Louis though it would be a difficult fight for both.
 

White_Savage

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Louis, after his loss to Marciano, said he couldn't have beaten Marciano in his prime. But I admit Louis is alot better representive of the skill of boxing, whereas Marciano was just unbeatable because he was a freak of nature with a rhino's power and indestructability.
 
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Muhammed Ali is the most overrated Heavyweight champion of all time.He was a media creation like Roid Jones Jr.there were nothing more then comic book heros.
 

Gary

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Clay was to weak to take Marciano and Dempsey's shots for 15 rounds. Louis didn't have the chin to take there shots. Jim Jeffries was better then Marciano or Dempsey!
 
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Gary said:
Clay was to weak to take Marciano and Dempsey's shots for 15 rounds. Louis didn't have the chin to take there shots. Jim Jeffries was better then Marciano or Dempsey!
Jeffries was destroyed by Jack Johnson
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Gary

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Hey Buckwheat-Jeffries was way past his prime at that time-now you want to laugh -how about Marciano DESTROYED Louis,Willard Ko'd Johnson, Clay quit against Holmes-McBride made Tyson quit like a punk
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Gary said:
Hey Buckwheat-Jeffries was way past his prime at that time-now you want to laugh -how about Marciano DESTROYED Louis,Willard Ko'd Johnson, Clay quit against Holmes-McBride made Tyson quit like a punk
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Ali Never quit against Holmes the referee stopped the fight . Proof that you never saw that fight.


Again with marciano beating an old 37 year old Louis been there done that.


Johnson was 37 years and was handling Willard in the first 15 rounds eventually an old Johnson was worn down.


McBride did'nt make Tyson quit Tyson quit on his own Mcbride was not winning the fight until the time that Tyson decided to stop.


If you bring up Marciano beating an old Louis then i can bring up Johnson beating an old Jeffries.
 

Gary

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Tyson Quit-Clay Ouit[he wanted to quit in the Liston fight but Dundee pushed the coward back in the ring].The Record book says Willard Ko'd Johnson-it don't matter who was winning only WHO WON
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Gary said:
Tyson Quit-Clay Ouit[he wanted to quit in the Liston fight but Dundee pushed the coward back in the ring].The Record book says Willard Ko'd Johnson-it don't matter who was winning only WHO WON
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When did ali quit ?


He lost to Holmes on a TKO the ref stopped it after that he fought Trevor Berbick did'nt quit in that fight either . And this was Ali already with Parkinsons disease


You never saw ali Holmes did you ?





The record book says Johnson KO 15 Jeffries


I dont want to hear you talk about anything else since we are just going by what the record book says right ?.
 

White_Savage

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Why did Louis say he couldn't have beaten Marciano in his prime then?

"One point I would like to make is this; Joe himself said several times that he thought in their primes Rocky would have beaten him. In the May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated, Joe Louis was quoted as saying, "very few people knew this, but I had a weakness, a bad weakness. I didn't like to be crowded. And that was Marciano's thing. He always crowded. I knew I could never beat Rocky." Half of any fight is believing you're going to win and if Louis believed he'd lose against The Rock no matter when they fought, then it's very probable he was right.
Charlie Goldman was asked about this very thing after Rocky knocked out an aging Joe Louis and said, "It would have been a shorter fight. A younger Louis would have come after Rocky. And nobody can survive coming to Marciano." "

Louis was doing well on a comeback spree and in decidedly better shape when he fought Marciano than
Jeffries was in when he reluctantly came of of retirement to fight Johnson. We'll never know who would have won an actual prime match, but you can bet with Jeffrie's power it could have gone either way.

You must remember that even though Johnson was getting up in years, big dumb farmboy Jess Willard took his Sunday punches and outlasted him to win the fight. Whereas Dempsey knocked out Willard and broke his bones.
 

Gary

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Rocky ko'd Louis, Willard Ko'd Johnson ,Dundee told Clay to quit and when the Ref stopped the fight Clay didn't protest-Clay Quit!! Vitali had a bad cut the ref stopped the fight Vitali wanted to go on and Lewis retired rather then risk another fight.The Russians got guts.Thats why they won the war!
 
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White_Savage said:
Why did Louis say he couldn't have beaten Marciano in his prime then?

"One point I would like to make is this; Joe himself said several times that he thought in their primes Rocky would have beaten him. In the May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated, Joe Louis was quoted as saying, "very few people knew this, but I had a weakness, a bad weakness. I didn't like to be crowded. And that was Marciano's thing. He always crowded. I knew I could never beat Rocky." Half of any fight is believing you're going to win and if Louis believed he'd lose against The Rock no matter when they fought, then it's very probable he was right.
Charlie Goldman was asked about this very thing after Rocky knocked out an aging Joe Louis and said, "It would have been a shorter fight. A younger Louis would have come after Rocky. And nobody can survive coming to Marciano." "

Louis was doing well on a comeback spree and in decidedly better shape when he fought Marciano than
Jeffries was in when he reluctantly came of of retirement to fight Johnson. We'll never know who would have won an actual prime match, but you can bet with Jeffrie's power it could have gone either way.

You must remember that even though Johnson was getting up in years, big dumb farmboy Jess Willard took his Sunday punches and outlasted him to win the fight. Whereas Dempsey knocked out Willard and broke his bones.
Johnson was actually as physically strong as Jeffries prime or not. Johnson boasted that he could tie Jeffries arms behind his back if he wanted and he did several times in their match.


Johnson was 37 when he fought Willard . How old was Dempsey when he fought Willard ?. Dempseys and Johnsons styles where also very different .
 

Gary

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Jeffries was far stronger then Johnson in his prime. Little Marvin Hart beat Johnson. Johnson never saw the day he was as strong as Big Jeff. Dempsey was to tough,to fast and hit to hard for Johnson-Dempsey by KO in 6 rounds.
 
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Gary said:
Jeffries was far stronger then Johnson in his prime. Little Marvin Hart beat Johnson. Johnson never saw the day he was as strong as Big Jeff. Dempsey was to tough,to fast and hit to hard for Johnson-Dempsey by KO in 6 rounds.
Johnson KO 15 Jeffries its what the record says and like you said we go by what the record says now answer the question


IN WHICH BATTLES DID DEMPSEY AND TUNNEY FIGHT ?


Dont try to weasel out of the question answer it
 

Gary

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Hey fool I answered the question on two other posts- Tell me who would win a war between Russia or Kenya?
 
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Gary said:
Hey fool I answered the question on two other posts- Tell me who would win a war between Russia or Kenya?
Ah you change the subject again from boxing since afterall you cant prove Tunney or Dempsey where in combat not gonna work . Just admit that Tunney and Dempsey where Never in combat and that you are a hypcritical fool.
 
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