UFC Live Spike TV

[White Shogun]

Anyone beside me watching the UFC Live on Spike TV??

Josh Koshcheck DOMINATED this white guy named Fickett for about 14:30 over 3 rounds, when out of the blue Fickett kicks him in the face, Josh goes down and Fickett CHOKES HIM OUT WITH A REAR NAKED!! Un-Frigging-Believable!!

Koscheck was absolutely winning this fight. Fickett was getting taken down constantly. He did have a decent guard as Kos didn't do much damage, but man Fickett looked tired and beat close to the end of the 3rd round.

And to think, I had given up on this fight, rooting for the white guy. That'll teach me..

The White Savage axiom holds true again.

Edited by: White Shogun

 

[White Shogun]

Evan Tanner was beaten up pretty bad by a black guy named Loiseu or something like that. Tanner dominated with the takedowns, had the guys back time after time but couldn't choke him out. The one time the Losieiu guy got the mount, he tore Tanner a new hole in his face. It was ugly. Tanner made it up but the fight was eventually stopped on cuts. Too much damage, Tanner was about to get KTFO anyway.

Loiseau gave big props to Tanner as a UFC legend, said he was a fighter he would always respect and admire. Raised my estimation of him a notch.

Edited by: White Shogun

 

[White_Savage]

This is one case where I must disagree strongly Shogun.

McCarthy should not have stopped that fight. If it was just some poor kid getting cut up by Louiseau without answer, he would have been right, but this was Evan Tanner, dominating the first round and part of the second, coming within a hair's breath of choking the ******* out repeatedly. TAnner was no where near knocked out by those shots, despite the cuts, even though the announcer insisted on telling us repeatedly "Louiseau has the best elbows in the game". Yeah, well if that's so Evan Tanner should have been K.Oed

This is supposed to be ultimate FIGHTING. If we're going to make the sport about who has the thickest layer of meat on their forehead and stop fights every time we see a little red, might as well make it ultimate HEADBUTTING contest.

 

[White Shogun]

White Savage, it wasn't the elbows, it was the knee to the forehead that rocked Tanner. He was leaning over, Loiseau caught him right in the forehead. Tanner was rocked and went backward and fell against the fence.

I don't think the cuts would be worthy of fight stoppage, either, I'm just not sure if Tanner could have defended himself sufficiently to avoid the KO anyway, after that knee.

But truth is we'll never know. Tanner didn't complain about the stoppage, but then again thats not his style. Class act, as always.

Yeah, for having the best elbows in the biz he should have stopped Tanner long before that. He hit him with enough of them.

 

[Kaptain]

I saw that fight too. Tanner didn't do his homework on this one. He seemed intent to end the match with a rear naked choke. But Loiseau defends this very well. The choke can be defended and will work only if the opponent raises his chin or doesn't know choke defense. Tanner should have pounded him when he was in that position until Loiseau got desperate and raised his head. He wasted a lot of energy going for that choke that just wasn't going to happen. He was tired at the end of the match and didn't defend the elbows well - Loiseau throws almost all rights and Tanner should have been ready for it.

 

[JD074]

I haven't been watching MMA for that long, but I haven't seen anyone defend the "rear naked choke" (I think that's what they call it) quite like that. He blocked with his right arm, and tucked in his chin. Tanner was pretty much helpless against it. (But at least he wasn't really dominated athletically. That's what I hate to see.) Is there anything he could've done? Hopefully a better grappler will figure it out. Tanner's probably done the next guy a favor.

Koschek looks pretty impressive... all the more reason to rejoice over him getting beat! Yeah, he dominated the fight, but one mistake and your night can be over- as he now knows. I wasn't all that happy about Leben winning. He was such a weirdo on the show. Extremely unlikeable. Edited by: JD074

 

[JD074]

Hey Kap, beat me to the punch about the rear naked choke! Good explanation.Edited by: JD074

 

[Guest]

I agree about Louiseau's elbows. I don't like how he throws them with the intent on cutting the other guy and having the fight stopped due to a cut.

Seeing Fickett knock Koscheck silly then making him go to sleep made the night for me. The rest of the fights could have all been horrible and I would have still been satisfied. He got lazy, Fickett must have known he was going to shoot in, thats all Koscheck was doing, taking him down and not doing anything to try and finish the fight. Great win for Fickett.

Then Leben wins with an armbar, I didn't expect that, I don't think Dewees did either.

And how about Vera calling out Liddell? LOL, thats just funny.

Edited by: panzer

 

[Kaptain]

I have a wrestling mat in my basement and have been doing a little submission wrestling training. The rear naked choke can be defended even when the legs are hooked. As far as submission wrestling, I've found that you could try to keep some kind of choke on and slide the legs up the body for a triangle choke from behind using all four limbs. Otherwise, pounding should soften up the opponent though I've never done this myself. Also you could try grabbing one of the defenders arms that are near the neck in defense and choke him with his own arm.

 

[White Shogun]

I agree about Louiseau's elbows. I don't like how he throws them with the intent on cutting the other guy and having the fight stopped due to a cut.

This actually doesn't bother me. Throwing an elbow that hits hard AND cuts is the way to go, IMO. Even if the fight isn't stopped on cuts, blood will get in your opponent's eyes and make it easier for you to KO him, take him down, or blind side him. If they were still fighting under the early UFC rules, this stuff about cuts wouldn't matter. Tap out or KO, that was it.

Speaking of tap out, Fickett almost had Koscheck in an ankle lock, but couldn't get the tap. I couldn't tell how well he had it, but the thought occured to me that this may have been one of those training v actual fight mental mistakes. In training, you put a lock on and gradually crank it until your partner taps. In a fight, you put it on and go for the crank, all the way. In this case, it looked like Fickett was applying pressure too slowly, as though he were expecting Koscheck to tap out eventually. Did anyone else get this impression? Did you see anything that made you think he didn't have the ankle secured enough to get the tap out?

 

[White_Savage]

Well, I like Koshchek because he works both ways.

When he beats someone like Sanford, that's the White in him.

When he looses to someone like Fickett, that's the black in him.

Yeah, I think the grappling game is going to advance some. There ARE other submission availables from a top back-mount, and considering how many guys are now able to defend the choke, you're going to see fighters start training and using those. Ivan Salaverry's "back crank" victory over Fryklund comes to mind.

OTOH, I think keeping the back-mount even at the cost of winding up on bottom is an over-rated tactic, at least against a guy who defends chokes well. Of course, one of your best tactics for a stubbornly turtled opponent, knees, are illegal in UFC, since a standing fighter can't knee or kick a down fighter in the head.

I actually think the full mount is somewhat overated, insane as this may sound. You can strike, but savvy opponents CAN defend this, and it's opportunities for submissions are limited. Kazushi "The Grappling Encyclopedia" Sakuraba usually goes for side control for a reason.

 

[dkr77]

I was surprised tanner did'nt set up the rear naked choke by trapping one of Lousieus arms with his leg, thus giving Tanner a two on one advantage,in a body triangle or setting up an arm bar from the rear naked is a fairly common technique I have been shown. I guess it's always easier to second guess a fighter when you watch it but I thought Tanner was a bit more skilled at taking an opponents back than what I observed in his fight. Either way Tanner showed heart and hopefully he will take it as a learning experience to improve upon. It was a great fight!

 

[White Shogun]

They've mentioned on several of the fights that I've watched that Tanner taught himself how to grapple by video tape. Any of you heard about this?

 

[JD074]

And how about Vera calling out Liddell? LOL, thats just funny.

Yeah, they cut to Liddell briefly and he didn't seem concerned. He just gave that surfer sign or whatever it is (the thumb and pinky) and seemed to laugh it off.

 

[Guest]

Did you see anything that made you think he didn't have the ankle secured enough to get the tap out?

If you watch Koscheck, he looks towards his corner and shakes his head no, as if to say, it's not locked in.

 

[Spooge]

Tanner was tired and bleeding when he threw an akward overhand right
toward the brother. Tanner ended the punch (which did not
connect) on the brother's right side, hes head down by the brothers
thigh and hes eyes looking down. Any one of us (and I'm 44 years
old) could have kneed him in the face while continuing to hold his head
down. It was made to order. After the knee to the head,
Tanner was out and went to the canvas with his back, neck and both
sides of his face open. Thank God the ref came in quickly, or the
brother may have actually connected again (even though he took a couple
of shots, but missed anything vital.) Too bad, cause Tanner was
displaying brilliant skills up to that point, but I do agree he should
have waited on the RNC, until there was better opportunity for the lock.

 

[Spooge]

Panzer, I love your avatar! He he.

 

[JD074]

They showed the Loiseau (however you spell it)/ McCarthy fight on UFC Unleashed last night. This fight really goes to show how dumb it was for Tanner to stubbornly keep trying to choke out Loiseau. Why? Because McCarthy tried the exact same thing and couldn't do it. You think Tanner would've watched the fight, saw that Loiseau could defend against the rear naked choke, and tried something else. Both fighters got Loiseau to the ground but couldn't finish it. Tanner either didn't see the fight (why wouldn't he have?) is very stubborn and arrogant ("he couldn't do it but I can!") or not too bright.

I would like to see a very good grappler, who has something in his arsenal other than the rear naked choke, fight Loiseau. Arm bar, kimura, ground and pound, something. This guy and Rashad Evans are ruining the UFC for me right now. Grrrrr....Edited by: JD074