DixieDestroyer
Hall of Famer
Hawkeye, ol' Stephen Neal was a world class athlete...NCAA HW champ, Hodge award winner & Pro Bowl level OL in NFL. I'm sure he could have done well in MMA had he chosen that path.
UFC 140 - Brock Lesnar vs. Overeem
- Thread starter DixieDestroyer
- Start date
Overeem has a 77% takedown defense rating. Chuck Liddell and Cro-Cop, obviously legendary for their TDD, have an 81% and 78% respectively. Being taken down by Randy Couture in training and one takedown by Mark Hunt do not a bad takedown defense make. This may be biased by being in Japan without the American wrestling contingent for so long but, at the very least, it's solid.
If anyone wants to beat Overeem it's not by outwrestling him since he's very strong and pretty good with submissions for a striker but rather by outlasting him since he has shown poor cardio in the past and hasn't really had a long challenging fight in awhile. Not to mention that being on the juice is taxing.
If anyone wants to beat Overeem it's not by outwrestling him since he's very strong and pretty good with submissions for a striker but rather by outlasting him since he has shown poor cardio in the past and hasn't really had a long challenging fight in awhile. Not to mention that being on the juice is taxing.
white is right
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I think Brock was shot after he had his near death experience from his colon. He really hasn't looked as explosive and his chin and stamina has looked poor. Also post fight you could tell his head wasn't into the fight as he basically submitted the minute he started getting pounded. In boxing you see this all the time when a former champion or a top contender knows they can't win against top opposistion.
Anak
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Yes, very skewed percentage, Lesnar is the only wrestler he has faced I believe and he went for a single half-assed attempt. He can be beaten on the feet, his standup is highly overrated because people list his K-1 Grand Prix win without investigating it.
werewolf
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But that wasn't my question. This was:
"I don't understand this sport. Cerrone was getting beat up boxing with Diaz, but he also knocked him down with kicks numerous times, so why didn't he follow up and jump him when he knocked him down? But he just let him get back up each time."
Seems that's the thing to do in UFC - and like I said, I know little of nothing about it, boxing being my sport - is to knock down your adversary, and then jump on him and start punching his head, at which point the ref will dive in and call you the winner (as per that guy with the beard). So why did Cerrone do nothing each and every time he knocked down Diaz?
ww
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Frenchnative
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What Brock did was shining against white contenders such as Carwin and Mir and throwing fights away against darkies. Lesnar participated in getting rid of the white domination in the hw div and he let us down twice in a row in two major caste fights.
Don't worry, he'll be back more motivated than ever to beat mercilessly on a white chap and make us proud again...
I quit watching UFC when i figured out marketing was the decisive factor for a fighter to win the big fights, and that its president wanted to add some colours to his ambassadors.
Other than Brock Lesnar, Overeem has never fought a wrestler. That is why his TDD was so high. Trust me Overeem will not defeat any of the top guys in MMA. Lesnar was a Mark Coleman type, In my opinion the fight with Carwin should have been stopped in the first round, and don't forget Lesnar got destroyed evan worse against Cain.
foobar75
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Looks like Brock is going home.
Hawkeye, I agree with a lot of what you've said in this thread about him, some of it perhaps a bit harsh, but on point.
I still believe the disease took a lot out of him, mentally and physically. When he first came to UFC, he was in some prime physical shape, simply bigger and stronger than anyone else in the division at the time. So, he could just overpower people and had an easy path to the title. If he hadn't come down with that life-threatening illness the first time, he probably would've kept working on his weaknesses and become a better fighter as the division also kept improving with higher quality opponents. But you can't be off the octagon for 12+ months at a time, dealing with a life-threatning illness, and expect to then come back and dominate.
He hasn't won a fight since beating Frank Mir at UFC 100. I consider the Carwin fight a loss, and we all know what happened against Cain and Overeem.
I'd like to see a younger, more dedicated, and legit White American to carry the torch now. I thought Mitrione might be that guy, but he's 33 now and the Congo loss was a setback. I'm not sure who else is out there now. Until that man comes along, I'll be rooting for JDS going forward.
DixieDestroyer
Hall of Famer
FB75, as of now I'd have to say the top White HW MMA fighters (sans the retiring to WWE Lesnar) are JDS, Carwin, Barnett & Mir. FYI, Hawkeye does a good job of listing potential prospects (at all weight classes) in his thread.
Of the White HW "darkhorses" (no pun intended), I think Dave Herman (21-2) has a good deal of potential. One of his "losses" (to afrolete Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou) was for "illegal knees", thus a technicality. The 6'5, 233lb Herman has 15 wins by KO/TKO and 5 via submissions.
Of the White HW "darkhorses" (no pun intended), I think Dave Herman (21-2) has a good deal of potential. One of his "losses" (to afrolete Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou) was for "illegal knees", thus a technicality. The 6'5, 233lb Herman has 15 wins by KO/TKO and 5 via submissions.
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Rebajlo
Mentor
As I've lacked spare time this week I hadn't commented on Brock Lesnar's "performance" - in the immediate aftermath of the "fight" I was so ferociously pissed off that I was literally unable to make more than a brief one-line post before I had to get up and leave the room to calm down, before turning the computer off in disgust and stalking away anew. As the "fight" took place on the afternoon of the 31st Australian time it pretty much ruined New Year's Eve for me.
"That's a rather drastic reaction!" I hear You say, especially as some of You may remember that I hold a low opinion of Brock Lesnar as a fighter and thus never really expected him to deliver the goods. But, despite all of that I naturally hoped that Lesnar would always comprehensively take apart any non-White he ever came up against.
So why was I overcome with knuckle-whitening, boat-contorting, kick-the-furniture-and-the-cat fury? Because nothing - and I mean nothing - enrages amd embarrasses me more than seeing a White man lose to a non-White in any form of combat sport. Such defeats do more than every other facet of propaganda combined to perpetuate the core myth of black physical superiority which is at the centre of the "popular" marginalisation and degradation of the White male.
Every time a White audience sees a large White male being beaten by a proverbial "big black guy" it reinforces the meticulously constructed stereotype of the Negro's innate physical superiority - and that prick Lesnar has lost two very high-profile fights against non-White opposition in frankly embarrassing style. His beating at the hands of Cain Velasquez underscored his woeful limitations, while his last "effort" against Overeem lay firmly in the realm of farce.
Some of You may think that I'm being too harsh on Lesnar, but the fact remains that he collected a truckload of money for participating in these humiliations while in return he provided truly priceless ammunition for those who hate the White race. I doubt that he threw the Overeem fight, but with his pro-wrestling background an "I'll simply take the money and minimise the damage" approach wouldn't surprise me one bit.
A final point, which I've made before: just because somebody may be a "great athlete" doesn't automatically mean that they are a great fighter. As Hawkeye2 and others stated, Lesnar lacks a fighter's instinct and brain (or any brain, for that matter...). A bloke's speed over 100 metres, standing vertical jump, ability to throw or catch a football, slalom between witches' hats, or perform forward rolls has absolutely nothing to do with his fighting ability.
Lesnar might be some sort of "athlete" , but he sure as hell isn't a fighter. Look at the evidence. Despite plenty of highly expensive training the fellow's punches and standup defence are plainly rubbush and he is unable to throw out anything even remotely resembling a simulacrum of a decent kick. His takedown "attempt" (to use a generous euphemism) against Overeem was bloody laughable.
If it wasn't for his size and associated power (helped along by a not-so-healthy sackful of steroids in his "wrasslin'" days) coupled with his ex-pro wrestler "celebrity status" the geezer would be an MMA non-entity. Then again, in terms of technical ability, Lesnar always was a non-entity...
"That's a rather drastic reaction!" I hear You say, especially as some of You may remember that I hold a low opinion of Brock Lesnar as a fighter and thus never really expected him to deliver the goods. But, despite all of that I naturally hoped that Lesnar would always comprehensively take apart any non-White he ever came up against.
So why was I overcome with knuckle-whitening, boat-contorting, kick-the-furniture-and-the-cat fury? Because nothing - and I mean nothing - enrages amd embarrasses me more than seeing a White man lose to a non-White in any form of combat sport. Such defeats do more than every other facet of propaganda combined to perpetuate the core myth of black physical superiority which is at the centre of the "popular" marginalisation and degradation of the White male.
Every time a White audience sees a large White male being beaten by a proverbial "big black guy" it reinforces the meticulously constructed stereotype of the Negro's innate physical superiority - and that prick Lesnar has lost two very high-profile fights against non-White opposition in frankly embarrassing style. His beating at the hands of Cain Velasquez underscored his woeful limitations, while his last "effort" against Overeem lay firmly in the realm of farce.
Some of You may think that I'm being too harsh on Lesnar, but the fact remains that he collected a truckload of money for participating in these humiliations while in return he provided truly priceless ammunition for those who hate the White race. I doubt that he threw the Overeem fight, but with his pro-wrestling background an "I'll simply take the money and minimise the damage" approach wouldn't surprise me one bit.
A final point, which I've made before: just because somebody may be a "great athlete" doesn't automatically mean that they are a great fighter. As Hawkeye2 and others stated, Lesnar lacks a fighter's instinct and brain (or any brain, for that matter...). A bloke's speed over 100 metres, standing vertical jump, ability to throw or catch a football, slalom between witches' hats, or perform forward rolls has absolutely nothing to do with his fighting ability.
Lesnar might be some sort of "athlete" , but he sure as hell isn't a fighter. Look at the evidence. Despite plenty of highly expensive training the fellow's punches and standup defence are plainly rubbush and he is unable to throw out anything even remotely resembling a simulacrum of a decent kick. His takedown "attempt" (to use a generous euphemism) against Overeem was bloody laughable.
If it wasn't for his size and associated power (helped along by a not-so-healthy sackful of steroids in his "wrasslin'" days) coupled with his ex-pro wrestler "celebrity status" the geezer would be an MMA non-entity. Then again, in terms of technical ability, Lesnar always was a non-entity...
Rebaljo is correct to be angry. It is not that Lesnar lost. It is the way he lost. He fought scared and sloppy and got dismantled.
This was not the Brock that beat Mir, Couture and Herring. That Lesnar was quick, strong and sure of himself. All Overeem did to stop his takedown was one little sprawl. The old Lesnar would not have stopped trying for the takedown.
If Brock had gone 100% and just got caught (like in the first Mir fight) then I would be upset but not angry. But Brock embarrased himself and our race with that scared performance of his. The fact that it came against Overeem, a favorite of DWFs and black racists makes it even worse.
Looking back, it is a shame that Mir and Carwin lost to Brock. Those guys are true warriors and better representatives for our people.
This was not the Brock that beat Mir, Couture and Herring. That Lesnar was quick, strong and sure of himself. All Overeem did to stop his takedown was one little sprawl. The old Lesnar would not have stopped trying for the takedown.
If Brock had gone 100% and just got caught (like in the first Mir fight) then I would be upset but not angry. But Brock embarrased himself and our race with that scared performance of his. The fact that it came against Overeem, a favorite of DWFs and black racists makes it even worse.
Looking back, it is a shame that Mir and Carwin lost to Brock. Those guys are true warriors and better representatives for our people.
DixieDestroyer
Hall of Famer
Y'all are totally correct in your anger...I was quite PO'd as well. I know it's not much consolation, but I'm confident that Overoid will be KO'd by JDS.