Lesnar vs. Mir

I was curious as to everyone's prediction on Lesnar vs. Mir (Feb 2nd) at UFC 81.

Fyi, here's a video (from UFC via Sherdog) of Lesnar training...

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=719558Edited by: DixieDestroyer

Lots of variables in this fight. Will Mir be in shape? What happens to Brock when he gets popped on the chin for the first time? How good is Lesnar's submission defense?

A couple of years ago I'd have picked Frank Mir to submit Lesnar within the first two minutes. Now, I don't know anymore. Mir is too unpredictable, hasn't looked good in his last couple of fights, and Lesnar is too unknown.

I will go with Lesnar by ref stoppage due to strikes. Which means of course, with my history of bad picks, that Mir will win by sub.

Not sure how much it means before the Mir fight but here it is:

[url]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25l0g_k1-dynamite-usa-broc k-lesnar-vs-min[/url]

I am pumped up big time about Lesnar. He is a physical specimen. I see him battering Mir into submission within the 1st 2 rounds.

Lesnar destroys Mir. I hope that happens because we need a new larger than life white star on the MMA scene. I hope he's the real deal because physically speaking he could be.

Nobody saying much about big Timmuh and Nog.

Not sure how I feel about Lesnar. He is larger than life and should he have a dominant victory over Mir he could make folks forget about Mr. Couture really fast. I think.

Hope Tim wins. A win over Nog could earn him the respect he deserves especially if he KOs him.

Poacher said:

Nobody saying much about big Timmuh and Nog.

Not sure how I feel about Lesnar. He is larger than life and should he have a dominant victory over Mir he could make folks forget about Mr. Couture really fast. I think.

Hope Tim wins. A win over Nog could earn him the respect he deserves especially if he KOs him.

Click to expand...

Tim catches alotta flack from MMA fans...he seems to be someone who some fans "love to hate". I personally like watching him fight (although he didn't bring his top game vs. Randy), and pull for him. Like myself, Tim's a big guy with a long reach. He's also an avid outdoorsman and seems to be a laid back, simple kind of fellow (like me ). I hope he KO's Nog and Brock smashes Mir. I think a Brock vs. Timmay matchup would be a good clash of styles. Although both are big, strong guys, I'd definitely give Brock the edge in raw power. However, if Lesnar has a glass chin or gets sloppy striking, Big Tim would KO him. We'll see what happens!

I've always liked Tim Sylvia. I think he will beat Nog, but I think it'll go the distance. I'm hoping for a KO.

I can't pick the Lesnar/Mir fight. I like both, but Lesnar is such an unknown, it's really impossible to pick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANEHD0fhojo

Lesnar interview snagged from Cage Potato/ youtube. He's surprisingly humble considering the hype surrounding him. Alot different from the various personas I imagine he's had as a wrestler.

I wish all my fellow minnesotans luck in the cage, and Brock is no exception.

Lesnar weighed in at 265 and was cut. He will be 275+ at fight time. Wow when will the UFC waive the max limit. If this guy becomes a huge star they will have to waive the limit. Also if Bob Sapp could fight at all they would have waived the limit a long time ago. If this fight were a boxing match it would be an easy Lesner win, but with so many ways of winning in MMA this fight could be coin flip. I think it will boil down to will Lesner be able to impose his huge strength advantage on Mir and is Mir shot.

Decisions decisions.

I dislike Tim Sylvia's fights and style. He's boring and tries to do as little as possible to squeak out a decision win. The less Tim on PPVs, the better. Even though he seems like a good guy. Big Nog is the epitome of a warrior. Has been in battles and is one of the best submission guys in MMA. But he's a mestizo and Tim's White so I go with Tim while holding my nose.

I dislike the fact that Brock Lesnar is getting this hype despite a dearth of MMA experience. Yeah, he's a celebrity, ex-champion wrestler, and physical specimen but he's a rookie and I'd like the sport to remain pure where dues are paid, blood is spilt, and reputations are built before fame and glory come. Francisco Santos Mir III has definitely paid his dues and some. He was a feared grappler way back when and has come back after a bad motorcycle accident less than 100% but still fighting on. But he's a mestizo and Brock's White so I WILL be rooting for Brock with the hope that the hype doesn't fall flat.

Lesnar has a huge advantage in size, strength, athleticism, and wrestling ability. Mir will have to get and hold onto a lock or choke in the first 3 or 4 minutes. Otherwise he will lose. Mir gets tired fast, Lesnar is a machine. Mir has struggled to lock or choke guys who were dramatically inferior to Lesnar. And he has really only had success getting a good grip on strikers.

Tim used to be good, but after Mir broke his arm, he got scared. Now he only fights for points. He might be able to jab the whole match away against Nogueira, not sure. Maybe Antonio twists him into a pretzel.

I'll pick Lesnar over Mir-Mir gasses in the second round and Lesnar pounds him until a ref stoppage.

I'll pick Tim Sylvia over Noguiera-Sylvia keeps the fight standing and eventually stops Noguiera early in the 5th.

It was Jui-Jitsu night in the octagon.

Congrats to Mir for a nice knee bar submission after having Lesnar pound on him for the entire round. The stoppage and subsequent point deduction by Mazagati was wrong.

As for big Tim...overall he fought a good fight but I still think that he could have finished him if he had thrown more punches. Once it went to the ground with Nog in side control it was only a matter of time.

Nice night of fights. How about that Boetsch dude?

Brock proved his brute power but his inexperience got the better of him. He needed to respect Mir's guard a little more. I think Brock has the makings of a juggernaut as his BJJ & striking continue to develop. Big Tim dropped Nog in the 1st and had the advantage standing up, but Nog finally got him down & caught him in the guillotine choke. Hopefully, Randy comes back soon and takes his strap back from Nog!

Nogueira Becomes First to Hold UFC, PRIDE Belts

Saturday, February 02, 2008
by Sherdog.com Staff

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (Pictures) became the first man to hold championship belts in both the UFC and PRIDE FC heavyweight divisions Saturday with a submission win over Tim Sylvia (Pictures) in Las Vegas.

Against Sylvia, a two-time UFC champion who hoped to join the displaced Randy Couture (Pictures) as the only fighters to earn three belts in the promotion's heaviest division, Nogueira showed why he was generally considered the second best heavyweight mixed martial artist of his generation.

It was tough sledding early for "Minotauro" inside a sold-out Mandalay Bay Events Center for UFC 81. Sylvia, standing 6-foot-8, kept his punches tight while landing the occasional jab and hard right hand.

The first round belonged to the 31-year-old American after a combination put Nogueira, fighting out of Sao Paulo, Brazil, on the canvas. Yet as he's done throughout his impressive career, the Brazilian recovered.

Though he failed to dump Sylvia (24-4) on his back during an excellent sequence in the second, Nogueira, also 31, put the fight on the floor in the third.

Instantly he passed to side-control, where Sylvia, of Davenport, Iowa, was vulnerable to submissions and strikes. A missed armlock set up the fight-ending guillotine choke, which Nogueira (31-4-1, 1 NC) took from the bottom at 1:28 of the third.

The Brazilian heavyweight, who dominated Japan's top mixed martial arts promotion save for two losses against Russian Fedor Emelianenko (Pictures), earned an interim title, so designated in the aftermath of Couture's resignation and subsequent legal battle with the UFC.

Sometimes the unknown produces the most memorable moments. Such is the case tonight, when in just his second professional fight Brock Lesnar (Pictures) faced former UFC heavyweight champion Frank Mir (Pictures).

A 30-year-old NCAA championship wrestler who paid his bills as a star in pro wrestling, Lesnar dwarfed Mir, who weighed 255 pounds Friday, in the center of the Octagon.

Lesnar (1-1) engulfed Mir and brought the 28-year-old Las Vegan hard to the canvas. Lesnar, fighting out of Minneapolis, Minn., unloaded a series of heavy fists encircled by triple-XL gloves.

But Mir (11-3) survived. After a quick return the feet that saw him eat a big right hand, Mir went back on the canvas with Lesnar and first went after a massive arm. As it turns out, the attempt led the tactical Mir into a kneebar, which he cranked for the tapout 90 seconds after it began

Nathan Marquardt (Pictures) (26-7-2) rebounded from a deflating loss to Anderson Silva by controlling late-replacement Jeremy Horn (Pictures) before finishing with a choke at 1:37 of round two.

The technical Marquardt's athleticism and strength trumped Horn's experience. Grabbing the neck ot Salt Lake City's Horn (79-17-5) during a scramble, Marquardt forced the tap from his fellow middleweight.

Ending a four-year absence from competition, New York's Ricardo Almeida (Pictures) returned in the UFC middleweight division with a quick submission over Alaskan Rob Yundt (Pictures) (6-1).

Stepping in on short notice when Alan Belcher (Pictures) was forced out of the fight with an illness, the muscular Yundt left his neck exposed just long enough for the Brazilian jiu-jitsu champion to lock it up with an arm inside.

An aggressive slam from Yundt did little but put him in worse position, as Almeida (9-2) finished the choke from the mount at 68 seconds following the opening bell.

Despite a reach and size disadvantage, lightweight Tyson Griffin moved to 11-1 with a lopsided unanimous decision victory over Brazilian Gleison Tibau (Pictures) (15-5).

Griffin, fighting out of Randy Couture (Pictures)'s Las Vegas gym, concentrated on a stand-up striking affair, and showed improved kickboxing with digging punches to the body and combinations aimed at the Coconut Creek, Fla.-based Tibau's head.

Undercard results

Chris Lytle (Pictures) (25-15-5) stopped UFC newcomer Kyle Bradley (Pictures) (13-5, 1 NC) in 33 seconds in a welterweight clash.

Tim Boetsch (Pictures) (7-1) made the most of his opportunity to fight as a late replacement, stopping fellow light heavyweight David Heath (Pictures) (7-3) at 4:52 of the opening period.

Marvin Eastman (Pictures) (15-7-1) took a unanimous points victory over Terry Martin (Pictures) (16-4) in a plodding middleweight affair.

Robert Emerson (Pictures) (7-6, 1 NC) took a close split decision lightweight contest versus Keita Nakamura (Pictures) (14-3-2).

***Reference article...


http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=11133

More terrible officiating from the UFC. Mir was turning his head away, and Brock was trying to land legal blows. What the f*ck is he supposed to do?! He wasn't flagrantly hitting him in the back of the head. I was reminded of the Hatton-Mayweather point deduction when I saw this. Mir was clearly hurt when they were stood up. I don't know how badly he was hurt, but he was definitely hurt. He was holding his head, in pain, and his legs were slightly shaky. It's conceivable that the ref turned a :60 KO victory into a :90 submission defeat.

And what's also strange is that the incompetent officiating actually went against UFC's financial interests for a change! That's new! Lesnar has much more potential to be a big money star than Mir.

Oh well. If Brock stays committed, he could still be a great fighter.

The break in the Lesnar-Mir fight was really bad. That would never have happened if Brock was not so huge and powerful. Fighters get hit in the back of the head all the time with no break and no point deduction. Mir turtles when he is getting dominated, both Wes Sims and Brandon Vera have turtled him. The match was only a few punches away from ending and the ref probably saved Mir.

Hitting to the back of the head should be legal anyway. It was legal for years and not a single bad thing happened. There are too many rules now.

With the Nogueira win, Saint Pierre becomes the only white fighter with a UFC belt.

The ref should have to answer a commission on why he stopped the fight when an opponent wasn't blatantly cheating. It was poor reffing there. Also when Lesner was caught in the leg lock it looked like a bear caught in trap. Lesner needs more seasoning. A better opponent for Lesner would have been a Keith Herring type.

It's a bad rule. When you are getting hit in the head, you turn away. Then what is the opponent supposed to do?

It should be legal to hit guys in the back of the head. It is safer, more exciting, and more realistic.

Instead fighters now "defend" themselves by turning their backs and covering their ears with their hands. It's just as bad as deliberately putting a hand on the ground so the other guy cannot kick or knee you in the head.

The ref was running in to stop the fight while Mir was getting pummled and when he seen that Mir was still ok he tried to cover his ass by taking a point off Brock.

the Mir/Lesnar fight sure was exciting, too bad it ended the way it did, with Lesnar's inexperience exposed. I was really pulling for him especially after seeing his aggression in taking the ex-champ to the mat so early.

Tim Boetsch was awesome, but I think the guy he was fighting was unimpressive except for the few combos he landed/attempted. He almost went a whole round without any defense whatsoever. That throw was sweet. Edited by: nopictures

nopictures said:

Tim Boetsch was awesome, but I think the guy he was fighting was unimpressive except for the few combos he landed/attempted. He almost went a whole round without any defense whatsoever. That throw was sweet.

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Indeed! Boetsch had picture-perfect timing on that throw. He hadn't attempted a take-down or throw the entire fight (even with his wrestling background), and had lulled Heath into thinking it was going to be a 100% stand-up/striking match...then nailed him on that throw. Also, the front/"teep" kick (along with a quick knee/shin stomp) is effective in the cage & street fights, but underutilized.

nevada said:

It should be legal to hit guys in the back of the head. It is safer, more exciting, and more realistic.

Click to expand...

Well, I thought the knees to the back of the head in the Shamrock/ Gracie fight (on the EliteXC show a while back) was pretty messed up. I don't think that's acceptable. Too risky. But an occasional accidental punch to the back of the head when an opponent is turning away is totally different. Basically, it's not about changing a rule, but rather refs practicing better judgment. I guess that's too much to ask for.