Did Babe Ruth actually hit 104 home runs in 1927?

werewolf

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Babe Ruth actually hit 104 home runs in 1927!?


"there was ... a rule that the baseball that cleared the wall in fair territory, also had to land in fair territory to be counted as a home run. Further, the rules once stipulated that an over-the-fence home run in a sudden-victory situation would only count for as many bases as was necessary to "force" the winning run home. For example: In a tie game, a ball hit over the wall with a runner on first to end the game would only count as a triple."


"It was estimated that Babe Ruth would have hit 104 home runs in 1927 when he had 60 home runs counted, and lost between 50 -78 home runs overall, during his career because of these rules."


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_of_babe_ruths_homeruns_were_ground_rule_doubles_now
 
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werewolf

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"It was estimated that Babe Ruth would have hit 104 home runs in 1927 when he had 60 home runs counted, and lost between 50 -78 home runs overall, during his career because of these rules."

If he "lost between 50 - 78" over his whole career how do they come up with adding 44 on to 1927? That seems excessive.

People today don't realize how Babe Ruth revolutionized and dominated the sport. Before him men were winning the home run titles with about 11 or 12 homers per year, and then along comes Ruth hitting 59 and 60. Another thing that people don't remember is that he was originally a pitcher, and he was one of the greatest pitchers of all time too.

The Japanese declared him "the living god of baseball" and when he came to visit Japan the crowds - including the emperor! - were so vast that many were trampled. The Japanese didn't hate Americans. They loved Americans. So did the German people.

War is a racket, a money making racket. - General S. Butler, the most decorated Marine in US history.
 
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Don Wassall

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I doubt many balls that cleared the wall in fair territory didn't then also land in fair territory. I've read a lot about Ruth and never heard of him supposedly losing dozens of homeruns. We had a discussion about the "walkoff" homeruns not being counted some months back but I think that rule ended around 1920, right as Ruth was beginning his power surge.

Ruth hit 29 homers in 1919, which was astonishing at the time. The next year he went up to 54. As far as impact and domination of a sport, there has been nothing like him before or since. As mentioned, he could have been one of the all-time great pitchers if he hadn't switched to being an everyday player. As it was, he was 94-46 with a career ERA of 2.28.

The dead ball was livened up in response to Ruth's power and the interest and excitement it caused, but still his dominance can't be questioned. In 1927, when he hit 60 HRs, that was more than any other team hit in the American League that season. The equivalent to that today would be for someone to hit well over 200 HRs.
 

werewolf

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Don -

The old home run rules seem to have been changed in the 1920's to 1931:

"Also, until approximately that time [1931], the ball had to not only go over the fence in fair territory, but to land in the bleachers in fair territory or to still be visibly fair when disappearing behind a wall. The rule stipulated "fair when last seen" by the umpires. Photos from that era in ballparks, such as the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium, show ropes strung from the foul poles to the back of the bleachers, or a second "foul pole" at the back of the bleachers, in a straight line with the foul line, as a visual aid for the umpire. Ballparks still use a visual aid much like the ropes; a net or screen attached to the foul poles on the fair side has replaced ropes. As with American football, where a touchdown once required a literal "touch down" of the ball in the end zone but now only requires the "breaking of the [vertical] plane" of the goal line, in baseball the ball need only "break the plane" of the fence in fair territory (unless the ball is caught by a player who is in play, in which case the batter is called out).
Babe Ruth's 60th home run in 1927 was somewhat controversial, because it landed barely in fair territory in the stands down the right field line. Ruth lost a number of home runs in his career due to the when-last-seen rule. Bill Jenkinson, in The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs, estimates that Ruth lost at least 50 and as many as 78 in his career due to this rule.
Further, the rules once stipulated that an over-the-fence home run in a sudden-victory situation would only count for as many bases as was necessary to "force" the winning run home. For example, if a team trailed by two runs with the bases loaded, and the batter hit a fair ball over the fence, it only counted as a triple, because the runner immediately ahead of him had technically already scored the game-winning run. That rule was changed in the 1920s..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_run




Now check out this book, which is mentioned in that Wikipedia article. The author did exhaustive research and determined that many of Ruth's fly outs - 450 feet long fly outs! - would have easily been home runs in today's small ball parks as opposed to the spacious parks of the 20's and 30's.

The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs: Recrowning Baseball's Greatest Slugger


http://www.amazon.com/Year-Babe-Ruth-Home-Runs/dp/0786719060

Read the reviews.

So not only was "the living god of baseball" as great as they said he was back then, in light of the passage of time he was even much greater. Of course he won't get the credit he desrves today for reasons we well know.



ww
 

Extra Point

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Imagine how many home runs Babe Ruth would have hit if he had taken steroids.
 
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Imagine how many home runs Babe Ruth would have hit if he had taken steroids.

yeah.., don't just imagine Ruth on steroids.. but a Ruth that wasn't hungover on game day. The guy was coming to games after all-nighters in the Roaring 20s, and still wearing out the best pitchers of his era.. No scientific weight training back then either.
Ruth was probably the greatest natural talent/power hitter in the history of the game, and no one ever has (or probably ever will) dominate his peers like he did.
& like an earlier poster pointed out.. this was in an era of scuffed-up balls, and higher mounds, when nobody hit home runs.. :rockon:
 

werewolf

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Forget about steroids. All he had to do is play in the modern tiny ball parks and all those 450 foot fly outs he made would have been long gone homers + those home runs that he made that curved foul after passing the foul pole - the old rule - plus the game ending homers he made that were ruled not homers - old rule - plus the modern live baseball and modern bat and designated hitter rule etc etc.

No one has ever dominated their sport the way Babe Ruth did baseball in 1910's through the 1930's. Second on the list is right now in boxing where the amazing Doctor Klitschko brothers effortlessly rule over boxing's premier division.

256px-Babe_Ruth2.jpg
 

whiteathlete33

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Forget about steroids. All he had to do is play in the modern tiny ball parks and all those 450 foot fly outs he made would have been long gone homers + those home runs that he made that curved foul after passing the foul pole - the old rule - plus the game ending homers he made that were ruled not homers - old rule - plus the modern live baseball and modern bat and designated hitter rule etc etc.

No one has ever dominated their sport the way Babe Ruth did baseball in 1910's through the 1930's. Second on the list is right now in boxing where the amazing Doctor Klitschko brothers effortlessly rule over boxing's premier division.

256px-Babe_Ruth2.jpg

Great topic! The "Great Bambino" is truly something special.
 

Carolina Speed

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yeah.., don't just imagine Ruth on steroids.. but a Ruth that wasn't hungover on game day. The guy was coming to games after all-nighters in the Roaring 20s, and still wearing out the best pitchers of his era.. No scientific weight training back then either.
Ruth was probably the greatest natural talent/power hitter in the history of the game, and no one ever has (or probably ever will) dominate his peers like he did.
& like an earlier poster pointed out.. this was in an era of scuffed-up balls, and higher mounds, when nobody hit home runs.. :rockon:


Love Babe Ruth, probably the greatest player of all time, but I got to talk about my all-time favorite Ty Cobb. Great athlete of his time. Kept himself in shape, (while he was playing), holds a record that will never be broken. (lifetime BA. .367), and did one thing Ruth never did. He won the Triple Crown (1909).

"I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. The guy was superhuman, amazing."- Casey Stengel

I'm surprised there's not more on CF about Cobb!

Cobb was almost 34 when the live ball era began, so he didn't hit alot of homeruns. However, at age 38 and seeing Babe Ruth taking away some of his notoriety, he told a reporter he was going to swing for the fences and hit 3 HR's in one game and 2 in the next game. I wish Cobb would have tried for homeruns and I wish Ruth would have stayed healthier.

"I could hit .600 if I wanted to, but I'd have to hit them singles, they pay to see me hit homeruns."- Babe Ruth

"You can't beat The Babe."- Ty Cobb
 

Don Wassall

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Love Babe Ruth, probably the greatest player of all time, but I got to talk about my all-time favorite Ty Cobb. Great athlete of his time. Kept himself in shape, (while he was playing), holds a record that will never be broken. (lifetime BA. .367), and did one thing Ruth never did. He won the Triple Crown (1909).

"I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. The guy was superhuman, amazing."- Casey Stengel

I'm surprised there's not more on CF about Cobb!

Cobb was almost 34 when the live ball era began, so he didn't hit alot of homeruns. However, at age 38 and seeing Babe Ruth taking away some of his notoriety, he told a reporter he was going to swing for the fences and hit 3 HR's in one game and 2 in the next game. I wish Cobb would have tried for homeruns and I wish Ruth would have stayed healthier.

"I could hit .600 if I wanted to, but I'd have to hit them singles, they pay to see me hit homeruns."- Babe Ruth

"You can't beat The Babe."- Ty Cobb


There's three Cobb threads, and he's been mentioned in others. We could use a lot of Ty Cobbs today, especially when it comes to attitude.

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/8878-Ty-Cobb?highlight=Cobb

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/1387-Story-on-Ty-Cobb-and-race?highlight=Cobb

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/1281-ESPN-Reaches-Back-to-Cobb’s-Era?highlight=Cobb
 

werewolf

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Ruth and Cobb, the two greatest baseball players ever, in that order, I would say.

But I looked at your first link and the first thing i saw was this:

"He [Cobb] refused to share a room with Babe Ruth because he was part black and called him ****** lips"

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/8878-Ty-Cobb?highlight=Cobb

That's bull. Babe Ruth was purely German background. He had a very rough childhood growing up in an orphanage and he was heavy featured with a bashed in nose, and heckling was loud and mean back then, so to make Ruth angry they called him n----- - and that really did make him angry - and there was no meaner heckler than Cobb - and Ruth was no shrinking violet himself, though generally an easygoing feller, the opposite of psycho Cobb, so he gave it right back at them.

Also, how could Cobb refuse to share a room with Ruth? They were never on the same team.


babe-ruth-ty-cobb.jpg

Ruth and Cobb. No love lost.
 

Don Wassall

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Ruth and Cobb, the two greatest baseball players ever, in that order, I would say.

But I looked at your first link and the first thing i saw was this:

"He [Cobb] refused to share a room with Babe Ruth because he was part black and called him ****** lips"

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/8878-Ty-Cobb?highlight=Cobb

That's bull. Babe Ruth was purely German background. He had a very rough childhood growing up in an orphanage and he was heavy featured with a bashed in nose, and heckling was loud and mean back then, so to make Ruth angry they called him n----- - and that really did make him angry - and there was no meaner heckler than Cobb - and Ruth was no shrinking violet himself, though generally an easygoing feller, the opposite of psycho Cobb, so he gave it right back at them.

Also, how could Cobb refuse to share a room with Ruth? They were never on the same team.


babe-ruth-ty-cobb.jpg

Ruth and Cobb. No love lost.


I agree it's bull, but it's a four year old post. Feel free to revive that thread by correcting the record if you want. :icon_wink:
 

werewolf

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I agree it's bull, but it's a four year old post. Feel free to revive that thread by correcting the record if you want. :icon_wink:

But you know, they're probably teaching the kids that in their zio-schools now - that Babe Ruth was a Negro - along with Beethevon and Hannibal and Cleopatra and the ancient Egyptians etc etc etc.

OK, I'll correct the record.
 

Thrashen

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Nice topic, WW.

Ruth’s mother’s maiden name (“Schambergerâ€) is most likely a derivative of a German “Landkreis†(or district, which is similar to counties there) in the state of Lower Saxony called “Schaumburg.â€

I once saw a vile documentary concerning Ruth on ESPN in which it was reported that white crowds would mercilessly heckle him by screaming out: “N-gger nose!†and other racial slurs. Of course, Ruth’s broad nose and the derision he received for its undesirable structure was all the “evidence†this Zio-Marx-MultiCulti documentary needed in order to happily suggest that he might have been a light-skinned mulatto.

Here is a photo of Ruth as a blond-haired toddler, which proves his “whiteness†through and through…

babybabe.jpg

CAPTION: Baby Ruth
 

werewolf

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"Ruth’s broad nose and the derision he received for its undesirable structure was all the “evidence” this Zio-Marx-MultiCulti documentary needed in order to happily suggest that he might have been a light-skinned mulatto."


All the "evidence" they need to declare someone an African Negro is for that person to ever have been described as "swarthy" or called "black", as in "Black Jack", or a carving made of his or her face in a dark colored wood, or using dark paint, or stylized with broadened features, or if they came from the continent of Africa.

Of course they only do this when they feel it suits their purposes. If a real African-American, a White person from southern or northern Africa, applied for some of their affirmative action points they'd laugh at him. And then you have Mr Zimmerman, who really does have some Negro ancestry, who gets transmogrified into a White Man who murdered a sweet innocent 12 year old skittle-eating Black child just because he was wearing a hoodie.

The baby photo of Ruth is a good find and conclusively proves that they are, as always, lying.
 
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werewolf

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Love Babe Ruth, probably the greatest player of all time, but I got to talk about my all-time favorite Ty Cobb. Great athlete of his time. Kept himself in shape, (while he was playing), holds a record that will never be broken. (lifetime BA. .367), and did one thing Ruth never did. He won the Triple Crown (1909).

"I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. The guy was superhuman, amazing."- Casey Stengel

I'm surprised there's not more on CF about Cobb!

Cobb was almost 34 when the live ball era began, so he didn't hit alot of homeruns. However, at age 38 and seeing Babe Ruth taking away some of his notoriety, he told a reporter he was going to swing for the fences and hit 3 HR's in one game and 2 in the next game. I wish Cobb would have tried for homeruns and I wish Ruth would have stayed healthier.

"I could hit .600 if I wanted to, but I'd have to hit them singles, they pay to see me hit homeruns."- Babe Ruth

"You can't beat The Babe."- Ty Cobb




They were the greatest. They don't make 'em like that any more.
 

werewolf

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Yankee Stadium was built in 1923. It was 490 feet to the centerfield fence. Babe Ruth had more over 400 foot long flyouts than anyone else in history, all of which would have been homers in a more reasonably sized ball park. Yankee Stadium is now 408 feet to center.

Here he is hitting homer number 60 in 1927:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOt0Tmwc2Rk
 

werewolf

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How Did Babe Ruth Really Die?

Everybody who knows anything about baseball history and the lore of the Yankees knows about the death of Babe Ruth and his bittersweet farewell to the Yankee faithful.

Stooped and frail, the Yankee legend came to the Bronx ballpark in 1948 wearing his pinstripe uniform to hear the cheer of the crowd one more time. He died two months later at age 53, reportedly of throat cancer, brought on in part by a fondness for tobacco and liquor.

But that's all wrong, says an Ossining dentist who spent a year researching the circumstances of Ruth's death.

Dr. William Maloney uncovered little-known information about the experimental treatment that the doomed baseball titan agreed to take part in, the way Ruth conducted himself during his final days and the rare form of cancer he actually died from, nasopharyngeal carcinoma.

"In all his biographies, they completely skip over his illness, and they got it all wrong," said Maloney, 41, a Scarsdale resident. "They all said he had throat cancer -an easy conclusion, because he was well-known for drinking, smoking and using tobacco. In fact, he died of a very rare cancer. And what I found out was that this larger-than-life celebrity was a pioneer in early cancer research."

Maloney, a longtime Yankee fan, was familiar with the Ruth legend, and after a trip last year to the Babe Ruth Museum in Baltimore, he resolved to find out more about Ruth's final days. A love of history and sports - combined with his professional interest in mouth disease as an assistant professor at the NYU College of Dentistry - sent him into the archives for a year.

What he found out surprised even Ruth's descendants, including Babe Ruth's granddaughter Linda Ruth Tosetti of Durham, Conn.

"I was stunned," she wrote in a recent e-mail. "It was the first I was reading, that my grandfather did not have throat cancer. My mother, Dorothy, always thought it was throat cancer, so did the whole country."

She was pleased to learn from Maloney that the kind of cancer her grandfather died from is not likely to be related to tobacco and alcohol. That Ruth willingly took part in an experimental treatment without any promise of success and showed kindness to the medical staff during a difficult illness were positiive notes.

"I want people to know that he was an humanitarian as well as the greatest slugger in baseball history. He gave to the very end!" she said.

Nasopharyngeal carcinoma causes less than 1 percent of the cancer deaths in the U.S., though the cancer is far more prevalent in parts of Southeast Asia and northern Africa. The nasopharynx is a small area inside the head, above the soft palate and leading to the sinus.

Maloney wrote an article, co-authored with an NYU colleague, that came out last month in the Journal of the American Dental Association, a work he may re-format for a general audience. It was a fascinating intersection of American history, Maloney said, where medical ethics and celebrity culture came together. (Maloney's research about Ruth's death is not entirely new. It was the subject of an article by a group of San Francisco doctors who turned up his autopsy results in 1998, which were reported in The New York Times.)

Ruth was the first person to try a new chemotherapy drug developed by oncologist Richard Lewisohn, over the objections of colleagues who said it was too unproven to try on humans.

Ruth essentially agreed to be a "human guinea pig," Maloney said, in an age when medical experimentation was far less regulated.

The use of the new drug, teropetrin, worked well for Ruth for a short time. It also laid the groundwork for a whole range of more successful chemotherapy treatments.

A Yankee historian who has written extensively about Babe Ruth said the new information seemed like a valuable addition to his story.

"It's amazing how people keep finding out things about these old topics," said Jim Reisler, an Irvington resident. People never lose interest in some of those "old topics," either, as evidenced by the sale last month of a cap worn by Babe Ruth for $328,000, a record.

"Ruth was such an irresistible personality, with the accomplishments to back it up, and he endures today in all kinds of ways," Reisler said.

Maloney, whose memorabilia-crammed office resembles a sports bar with a dentist chair stuck inside it, also came away with renewed respect for Ruth.

"I used to see him as a giant on the field; now I see him as a giant off the field," he said.
 
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