Wladimir Klitschko vs Tyson Fury

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Charles Martel, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    The North American boxing boards are strangely quite about this major upset. Wonder why? Maybe its because one of the best heavyweights ever, a white man, lost to another white man. There still is a generation of younger sports watchers that are still under the spell of the American myth factory.
     
  2. Riggins44

    Riggins44 Master

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    It's good that the HW champ is still a white man. However, that's about all that's good about Fury winning yesterday. The Klitschkos are two of the highest character champions that we will ever see. The damage that they did to the Caste System and the myth of black athletic superiority can't be overestimated. For decades before they came along, the popularly held belief was that the HW champion would always be black. Because blacks were just bigger, badder, meaner, more talented fighters. The biggest, baddest man on the planet would always be a black man. Black arrogance on the subject got so bad that Jewish-run, Negro-worshipping Hollywood even made a movie about it, "The Great White Hype". I remember the big-eared, goofy looking little black troll Martin Lawrence saying in one of his routines that there would never be a White HW champion as long as there was "one brother out of work".

    Golota started breaking that perception when he beat the sh** out of Riddick Bowe in two consecutive fights, and it was obvious that if the fight had been on the street that Bowe would have been at Golota's mercy. But the Klitschkos were able to win all of the HW titles and then hold them for over a decade. For quite a few years there was no black contender, or contender of any race, who could offer a serious challenge to Vlad or Vitali. And there's no reason to think that Eastern Europeans won't be the dominant HWs in the future. The silence from the American sports media on the subject speaks volumes. Fury is white but he is a buffoon and low-class. Hopefully this loss gets Vlad motivated and he doesn't let his career end like this.
     
  3. a5308860

    a5308860 Banned

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    I'm sure they're happy about it but it's bittersweet for them because they wanted a guy like Wilder or Jennings to beat Wlad. This does no good for most of them. I'm not sure why they even care because they don't show up and support those guys when they fight anyways. Jennings and Wilder can't sell out their own living room.
     
  4. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Wlad says he will exercise the rematch clause in the contract. Good posts Ambrose and Riggins44. Yeah, Amerika, with its blacks, DWFs, MSM and the PTB were not all that thrilled about Fury winning. Remember, those detestable groups would blabber on about potential HW champs playing in the NBA and NFL. Then comes along a white 607 fighter who demonstrated incredible movement and stamina and won the title last night. Fury for all his BS, I think he was just hyping the fight and himself. He was gracious to Wlad at the end. I would want him against any other except Wlad.

    Now the rematch comes. In order to win Wlad will have to bit down on the bullet and let his fists go. Fury does not possess one punch KO power. Wlad will have to throw caution to the wind in order to win.
     
  5. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    "I agree with what I saw."

    Do you ever disagree with what you see?

    A 27-year old man beat a 39-year old man. Something not entirely unexpected.

    By the way, when Ali was champion (and retrospectively with Johnson and Louis) you would hear incessantly that the Heavyweight Champion of the World was the symbol of physical supremacy. This was a favorite trope of "intellectual" writers on boxing. Funny thing, nobody brought up the HW title as physical supremacy the last 10 years or so.
     
  6. BoxingSpecialist2

    BoxingSpecialist2 Mentor

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    Wladimir Klitschko will go down as arguably the most dominant HW champion of all time, during his reign (2006-2015), he was head and shoulders above all and absolutely dominated all of his opposition. In terms of dominating his opposition, the only guy from the past I can think of that is comparable would be Joe Louis. Wladimir has the all-time record for most titlefights (27), and was on the verge of possibly breaking the Joe Louis record for all-time consecutive defenses of the heavyweight title (25).

    His legacy-defining fight is obviously his July 2011 mega-fight with David Haye. The hype for that fight was incredible, but in many ways the fight failed to deliver. It was cautiously fought by both guys, and although Wlad dominated, it was not what you'd call a "spectacular win". His earlier career wins over Chris Byrd (KO 7), Ray Mercer (KO 7), Calvin Brock (KO 7) were much more exciting and fan-friendly. His later career wins over JM Mormeck (KO 4), Kubrat Pulev (KO 5) were also fan-friendly.

    It is true that both Klitschko Brothers were instrumental in removing American (ie Negro) hold within the sport. Both brothers were tremendous athletes and helped re-mold the sport of boxing as international, European, and non-American.

    I'd rather see Wladimir bow out to a White Champion - Tyson Fury - than some Negro from USSSA (Not that that would happen anyway). If you think about it, there's only so much he can do at the age of 40. Some people in this thread are suggesting he takes a rematch to win back his title, but at his age, I don't think a rematch would go any better if anything it may go worse. Ideally, it would have been nice to see him move a bit faster, let his hands go more, and show some aggression, but those are all qualities of a younger man. When it's gone, it's gone.

    So, I think in his own interest he should retire. It's not like he's going to change anything about his legacy by winning back his title or not. Time to get out, now.

    As for Tyson Fury, I disagree with a lot of the comments here about him. I don't find that he comes off as a wigger. I'm also not sure that he is going to lose to some random black challenger. I'm pretty sure Fury beats Wilder, as for Joshua down the road that's harder to predict.

    But the sport of boxing has changed, and the likelihood of there being a Black American champion is very low. American presence in boxing has diminished badly, not just at heavyweight but all weight classes. The only real good fighter USA has is Andre Ward and he is very inactive and starting to get older. Boxing has become more international in its scope and thats not going to change.

    The heavyweight division is now wide open. Fury is THE guy because he beat THE guy but it remains to be seen if Fury can be as dominant as Wladimir was. Possibly. Or else maybe someone else will come along. Interesting times at HW. Klitschko victim David Haye could also possibly become a major player in the division. Haye would easily KO Wilder, and he's spoken about wanting to fight Anthony Joshua in the future. Povetkin also will want to be involved.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  7. Amren.com

    Amren.com Mentor

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    If Wlad wants to win a rematch he's going to have to be willing to get hit in order to throw and land some serious punches.
     
  8. Rap Is Crap

    Rap Is Crap Newbie

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    The fight was terrible but Fury dominated the fight. Wlad just didn't look himself and although he would occasionally land clean, he was inconsistent with it. Fury just boxing circles around Wlad is just hard to believe as Wlad has never been outboxed before (all his loses were by KO). I thought the only way Fury would win is if Wlad was stopped due to a cut.

    I think Wlad had a good career and should retire. As for Fury, he should go after Povetkin, Wilder, or even Haye. He'd beat Haye and Wilder easily but Povetkin would be a 50-50 fight.
     
  9. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    I actually think Wlad was confused and gave away too many rounds because of this. Yes he has aged but I didn't see a noticeable drop of hand speed over recent fights. Let's face it Wlad has always had gas tank issues and aging legends that are championship level fighter usually get these problems late in their career. When he was desperate and had to go for the ko their wasn't much in the tank.

    As for Fury I saw the skills but to me he was never athletic enough to beat Wlad, but it looks like he caught Wlad at the right time. If Fury can gobble up the best power shots of Wlad the rematch should be a replay of the first fight with maybe a tko in the middle to late rounds as the respect factor will be less.

    Ps this site won't let me reply directly to threads. Anybody else have these problems?
     
  10. The Hock

    The Hock Master

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    When I post there seems to be a delay in my posts showing up on the thread. It won't be there when I check but will show up later.

    Just watched part of the fight again. Too bad Vlad has neglected body punching I think a good body attack would have really helped against Fury. In my armchair trainer musings I had thought that working Fury's softish midsection might be in the Klitschko game plan. But what do I know.

    Fury is amazingly agile for his size, he really is. Moves well, head and feet. Like his Uncle said, show me another. He's one of a kind at the moment.

    Fury can really talk it up too. Too much at times (see devil worshiper comments) but he is very entertaining. There's not a heavy can match him in that regard. I think he is very marketable in the U.S. if he's interested. If a fight with Wilder ever materializes in the run-up Fury will make Wilder look like a retard. Come to think of it, Wilder already makes Wilder look like a retard. But the contrast will be so bad that we might see the first press conference with a towel thrown in. Unless they have someone with Wilder to do most of his talking for him.

    Anyway I like Fury and I hope indiscipline doesn't do him in.

    One more note. Fury seemed to really amped up during the fight. I assumed the Germans are good at testing for chemicals. Just sayin'...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
  11. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Your replies are posted, just keep refreshing the page to see yours and other current ones.

    Check this article just over halfway down when it mentions Fury and some of his views:

    http://alternative-right.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-pozzing-of-daily-telegraph.html

    In my youth, the Telegraph – parodied in the satire rag Private Eye as the Torygraph – used to be a hold-out of old-fashioned, blue-rinse, God-Save-the-Queen, Colonel Blimp Conservatism. But in recent years it has started to shadow the hard-leftist Guardian so closely that it is now difficult to tell the two apart. This was driven home by this recent story, attacking the new World heavyweight boxing champion, Tyson Fury, for his views on homosexuality:

    "It all started when Fury gave an interview to my colleague Oliver Holt in the Mail on Sunday, and said, verbatim: 'There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the devil comes home: one of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other one’s paedophilia. Who would have thought in the 50s and 60s that those first two would be legalised?' You will notice that 1. Fury thinks homosexuality and abortion should still be illegal and 2. That he is conflating homosexuality and paedophilia."
    Notice the temporal focus – "should still be legal" – and the suggestion that, hey, it's "the current year." The tone of the article may perhaps be slightly less strident or sniffy than the Guardian – no doubt there are still a few old dears who have to be shepherded towards the "great pozz hole" the Telegraph is disappearing down, but for anyone who can remember even a few years back the transformation in the Telegraph evokes Orwellian analogies of Airstrip One suddenly being at war with Eurasia and at peace with EastAsia (or is it vice versa?).

    The Telegraph doing this has a certain redundancy about it – a word that may have some significance for a newspaper that could well be be just a memory in ten years. Firstly, Tyson Fury is not a middle-class poster boy for political correctness. His views are more or less what you would expect a healthy, masculine, working class lad to have, and for that reason their worth has already been marginalized by mainstream "current year" Western culture. Secondly, there are more than enough media outlets out there doing this kind of boring, point-and-sputter journalism, without the Telegraph chiming in with the red-eyed, splittle-flecked chorus.
     
  12. The Hock

    The Hock Master

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    "Point and sputter journalism." That about sums up the response of a lot of the media when someone goes off the PC reservation nowadays.
     
  13. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    To Ambrose: Wlad should have never hired his former underling as his trainer. He always had a kid brother relationship with Banks and when push comes to shove is/was Banks going to light a blue streak into Wlad's Ferdinand the Bull impression during a training session or in a critical moment in a fight. Here is the late Steward lighting a blue streak into Wlad....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gAolHBuws
     
  14. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    I agree! Banks was a bum as a fighter and the same as a trainer. Why keep this guy? Cant he find some good Ukranian trainer?
     
  15. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    I'm thinking there will be a rematch .
     
  16. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    When was the last time a public figure admitted Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior? If someone wants to know if Obama is a Christian, someone should ask him one question, do you believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior? Can you imagine the look on Obama's face if a reporter asked him that?

    Isn't that the true test of a Christian. Any Christian? Whatever the denomination.

    Whenever someone tells me they are a Christian, but not that into it, I ask them that question, it's surprising how hard it is for people to lie about it.
     
  17. a5308860

    a5308860 Banned

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  18. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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    If Wlad was going to lose, I'd rather see Fury beat him than any man I can think of. I watched the fight linked below on HBO while staying in the Hollywood Hilton with a classmate of mine who is now deceased. It is hard to believe it has been almost 11 years since that time. My classmate wasn't into boxing very much, but we both enjoyed seeing Dr. Steelhammer take it to Byrdnest and his race traitor hag.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqwlaTwcugw
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  19. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  20. Rebajlo

    Rebajlo Mentor

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    I made the effort to watch the entire fight after it first appeared on Youtube that very evening Australian time. Well, one thing's for sure: the footage can be prescribed as a handy remedy for insomnia, for it certainly pushed me towards the brink of sleep...

    Let's get straight to the point: Klitschko's "performance" was awful. His punches were pitifully bereft of speed, timing, and accuracy. His movement and "ring craft" were equally unimpressive. Particularly in the early rounds there was plenty of pretty back and forth bouncing on the toes but he couldn't be bothered to make even a half-arsed effort to restrict and confine the constantly back-pedalling and jabbing Fury.

    Klitschko obviously underestimated the gyppo and thought he could win with minimal effort, probably based on the assumption that the inevitably evasive challenger would run out of steam after the fifth or sixth round and consequently be easy to outpoint in front of a "home" crowd. All in all, Klitschko appeared amateurish and very much past his expiry date. Sounds harsh, but the visual evidence speaks for itself...

    Everyone here knows I'm not a fan of the loud-mouthed Fury and of pikeys in general but I'll admit that he did enough to win. Mind You, the listless Klitschko made it astonishingly easy for him.

    Fury had shed plenty of excess weight in order to have the crucial ability to keep moving briskly for all twelve rounds. He used his albatross-like reach to full advantage to out box and hence out-point the Ukrainian. Despite his endless pre-fight bull**** artistry, Fury was never going to knock Klitschko out. Instead, he stuck to his plan and emerged with the belts. But I'll wager he was genuinely shocked at how straightforward it all was.

    The final round exposed Fury's limitations but also highlighted those of Klitschko. Even when - at long last - he displayed a bit of raw aggression, the Ukrainian was unable to land any significantly damaging shots on a flagging Fury. And here's the pith: throughout the fight, Klitschko looked like a boxer whose skills and motivation have rapidly declined over the past year. Given his age, that's hardly a surprise...

    By the time any re-match takes place, Klitschko will be 40 years old. In my opinion, one has to be quite stupid, delusional, stubbornly proud, avaricious, or debt-ridden - or any combination thereof - to step into the ring after the age of 38 or thereabouts. Klitschko appeared to be simply going through the motions and it was quite apparent that he was completely unwilling to absorb a few punches early on in order to get in close and work on Fury's less-than-resilient looking body (that pikey certainly has his trunks hitched up high enough...), a basic tactic which may very well have altered the course of the fight.

    One last thing: on most of the occasions when the pair clinched (which was way too often) Fury wasted no time in rabbit punching Klitschko and trying to strike the Ukrainian's kidneys and spine. Classy stuff, but only to be expected from someone of Fury's ilk. Then again, Klitschko stuck in a big blatant head butt during the eleventh round...
     
  21. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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  22. jastral

    jastral Newbie

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    Tyson speaks the truth and now he is a target

    [video=youtube;t2dUSClQCHE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2dUSClQCHE[/video]
     
  23. Deceptive Speed

    Deceptive Speed Mentor

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    I may be new to this site but "Rebajlo" what's up with you bashing Fury Calling him a Pikey which means a lower-class person. I personally love his confidence and he doesnt seem to be a wigger. I think its great that he's the new Heavy Weight champ unless you'd rather the black Bermane Stiverne to be the new champ.
     
  24. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    What is being overlooked here is Wladimir has very little experience fighting "up" with taller, bigger fighters. He's always fought across or down. One of my oldest expressions when evaluating boxers is: "all things considered equal, the taller, bigger, fighter wins". I watched the fight three times; I've watched a score of Fury's fights and sparring sessions; Fury does not get hit much. Fury can box as well if not better than Wladimir and he's taller with greater than a meter reach. If you think Fury is some tall stiff klutz like Willard you may want to take a second or third look. There's a damn good reason why Wladimir faked an injury and took an extra month of training for this fight, and why Haye backed out completely from fighting Fury.
     
  25. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Ambrose, I still don't know what to make of that fight. Wladimir looked clueless in that fight. Reach and height is nothing if you don't know how to use it. Look at the black boxer Julius Long. He is 7'1" and has a 90 inch reach and much smaller boxers are dominating him. Fury looks a bit stiff and unorthodox in the ring, but I do agree with you that he is better than he looks.
     

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