White RBs and 100-yard games

Discussion in 'NFL' started by Van_Slyke_CF, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. Heretic

    Heretic Master

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    So true. Tom Rathman finished his NFL career with a total of 4, 704 yards from scrimmage - 2,020 rushing yards to go along with 2,684 receiving yards along with 34 touchdowns. Pretty impressive, really.

    He played in the "West Coast Offense" architected by Bill Walsh which purists called a "finesse" offense. Rathman was anything but "finesse" and neither was the offense. It's difficult to find good quality or quantity highlights from him on YouTube. It's like they recycle the same twelve or so highlights from him during his entire NFL career and the rest are memory-holed and have the quality from the Red Grange era as Don has mentioned.

    I remember when "West Coast Offense" was sort of a buzz word back then and into the 90's and even 2000's. However, the teams that supposedly implemented it never really succeeded, at least at the level of the 49'ers, because they never utilized the FB the way Bill Walsh's version did.
     
  2. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    Did McCaffrey WANT to play the rest of the season finale? He probably could have had he desired.
     
  3. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    Right Heretic. I mentioned Rathman on an NFL thread, I think it's called, "Fullbacks that would have made good RB's," Rathman would have made a very good RB! Rathman averaged 6.4 yards per carry at Nebraska and a whopping 7.5 yards per carry and 14.7 yards per reception, his senior year. Rathman was a great athlete winning the state championship in the high jump when he was in HS!!
     
  4. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    *UPDATED* MASTER LIST OF 100 YARD GAMES BY WHITE RUNNING BACKS DURING THE CASTE ERA

    2010-2019: Total of 13 so far
    1) Peyton Hillis: 7
    2) Christian McCaffrey: 4
    3) Toby Gerhart: 1
    4) Rex Burkhead: 1

    2000-2009: Total of 8
    1) Mike Alstott: 4
    2) Brock Forsey: 1
    3) Peyton Hillis: 1
    4) Brian Leonard: 1
    5) Brad Hoover: 1

    1990-1999: Total of 9
    1) Mike Alstott: 3
    2) Gil Fenerty: 2
    3) Merrill Hoge: 1
    4) Brad Muster: 1
    5) Tommy Vardell: 1
    6) Scott Lockwood: 1

    1980-1989: Total of 53
    1) John Riggins: 19
    2) Craig James: 9
    3) Rob Carpenter: 8
    4) Merrill Hoge: 3
    5) Larry Moriarty: 3
    6) Matt Suhey: 3
    7) Mark van Eeghen: 2
    8) Dan Doornink: 1
    9) Joe Dudek: 1
    10) Hokie Gajan: 1
    11) John Cappelletti: 1
    12) Rick Kane: 1
    13) Jim Jodat: 1

    The decade we can use for comparison purposes, 1970-1979. The last decade before the full implementation of the Caste System against White RBs. The list from this decade is still under construction, but 138 100 yard rushing performances have been identified so far.

    1) Larry Csonka: 19
    2) John Riggins: 15
    3) Marv Hubbard: 10
    4) Ed Podolak: 9
    5) Jim Otis: 9
    6) Mark van Eeghen: 7
    7) Donny Anderson: 5
    8) Rocky Bleier: 5
    9) Norm Bulaich: 5
    10) Andy Johnson: 4
    11) Doug Kotar: 4
    12) John Cappelletti: 3
    13) Paul Hofer: 3
    14) Don Nottingham: 3
    15) Steve Owens: 3
    16) Ken Willard: 3
    17) Rob Carpenter: 2
    18) Jim Kiick: 2
    19) Jeff Kinney: 2
    20) Jon Keyworth: 2
    21) Scott Laidlaw: 2
    22) Rob Lytle: 2
    23) Ed Marinaro: 2
    24) Don McCauley: 2
    25) Larry Schreiber: 2
    26) Pete Banaszak: 1
    27) Jim Bertelsen: 1
    28) Bill Brown: 1
    29) Vince Clements: 1
    30) Scott Dierking: 1
    31) Dan Doornink: 1
    32) Doug Dressler: 1
    33) Walt Garrison: 1
    34) Les Josephson: 1
    35) Rick Kane: 1
    36) Dave Osborn: 1
    37) Mike Adamle: 1
    38) Fred Willis: 1
    39) Bobby Anderson: 1
    40) Bob Burns: 1

    Edited to add: Jim Jodat's 100 yard game in 1980. Thank you Truthteller.
     
  5. Titus

    Titus Newbie

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    Barring a season ending injury to McCaffrey, 2019 should be a cinch to pass the last 2 decades combined. This is progress.
    McCaffrey is the first white RB drafted to be The Guy in forever - who would be the last one? I think that changes the whole game. A white RB is doing it at the highest level now and he's not filling in for someone.

    Zenner needs to go somewhere where he can compete for a starting role, though that will be tough. Doesn't have a huge resume to warrant that necessarily, but his mileage should be very attractive.
    Hopefully Burkhead can stay healthy and get the chance to have a few games where he gets a full load. Belichick is usually all over the place when it comes to his runningbacks' usage, which for Burkhead is a good thing.
     
  6. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    The Last One would be John Riggins, Number One Draft choice in 1971 for the Jets. However, Joe Namath was the Jets QB and Riggins had a pattern of injuries and holdouts.
     
  7. Truthteller

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    Riggins was the last one. That is true. But much like Larry Csonka -- who was drafted prior to the NFL/AFL merger in 1970 -- Riggins was a "power-back". So, in essence, he was no different than Cappelletti, Vardell, Muster and the goy drafted by the Packers in 1974, who had a brief career. Obviously Riggins had a Hall of Fame career; the others not even close.

    But, prior to CMAC, had there ever been a true white tailback/halfback drafted in round one since the 1970 merger? An all-purpose back, not considered a bruising back, much like CMAC is currently?

    I thought the answer was no. CMAC was the only true white tailback/halfback drafted in round one since the 1970 merger. But upon closer inspection, I noticed a name from the 1970 draft: Steve Owens.

    Owens is a player I never saw play. Never even seen highlights of him on ESPN Classic, which is how I've seen most of these 1970's backs and stars. I know he won the Heisman at Oklahoma, then went to the Lions in round one. Had a injury shortened rookie season, then became a big star in 1971 -- very similar season to CMAC in 2018. Was hampered by injuries a bit the next two years, then had a true career ending injury on Thanksgiving Day in 1974. He might've been as good as Riggins, if not for injuries.

    I might need some help here from sport historian or some others. But was Owens a true tailback/halfback or was he also a power-back like Riggo and Zonk? I'm thinking he was the closest we've seen to CMAC in round one since the merger. CMAC and Owens were drafted 47 years apart. Talk about a drought?

    One more quick note on this specific topic: I did a quick net search and found Craig James was widely projected as a first round pick prior to the 1983 draft by several sources, including the New York Times. So James could've been considered another white tailback drafted to "be the man" for an NFL team, but he signed a huge (at the time) deal with the Washington Federals* of the USFL.




    Three quick notes, comments:


    1) Freethinker, thanks for keeping tabs and doing the updates.

    2) To the poster Rocky Bleier and others looking to add names to the list. Several years back I did an extensive search of the running backs from 1970 up until Hillis/Gerhart era. Thought I got them all, but might've missed some lesser knowns from the 1970's -- i.e Bob Burns, who I only knew about because his son played with the Oakland A's......Also, we have a 1987 Replacement Player (strike scab) on the list named Joe Dudek. I recently went back and looked at the 1987 stats and it seemed a lot white running backs were allowed to run the ball those three weeks. Patriots had a rookie from Stephen F. Austin named Michael LeBlanc gain 145 yards in a replacement game. I did a quick net search, but could not ascertain if he was black or white. At quick glance the name is probably white, but a ton of Haitians have the surname LeBlanc. Saw a black DB last weekend (Eagles?) named LeBlanc.

    3) When we looked up most of the game stats around 2010/2011, I'm not sure we included "post season" games in the equation. I believe I did not. So, for example, I think we might've short-changed goys like Riggins and Csonka. Riggo definitely had a 100 yard plus game in a Super Bowl. Larry C. might've also, although he shared the carries with Kiick and Morris.


    * https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...75-819a-4118-8fa5-5f3558c995ad/?noredirect=on
     
  8. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I remember Steve Owens as being a power back, but will defer to Sport Historian if my memory is wrong.

    Owens was drafted in the first round, as was Riggins in '71 and John Cappelletti in 1974. I believe '74 was the last year a White RB led the major college programs in rushing.

    I recall Sport Historian mentioning here that the leading RB on a number of NFL teams in '73 was White, something like 11 of them.

    After the early to mid-70s the White RB, power back and otherwise, was pretty much quickly phased out. Riggins was already an "old school throwback" late in his long career. Someone like Cappelletti would never have gotten a chance to be a workhorse tailback after that era, even under Joe Paterno at Penn State. He would have been converted to fullback or linebacker. Paterno "grew" and embraced the Caste System, as did Don Shula and the others who coached both before the Caste System went hard-core and after.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  9. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Steve Owens was pure fullback, but he was a lead rusher not a blocking back of any sort, except plays here or there similar to the Vardell highlights that I found. He rushed for 2400 yards until he blew out his knee. He might have been on track for hall of fame career or at least a wall of fame career. You might say he was a White Billy Simms or maybe Billy Sims was Black Steve Owens........
     
  10. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    Don, perhaps I was wrong about Owens. I guess the fact that he was "only" listed at 200 pounds in college and 215 pounds during his NFL career and had a ton receptions in 1971, led me to believe he wasn't in the Riggins/Csonka mode and closer to CMAC? Perhaps the answer is Owens was somewhere in between McCaffery and Riggins & Csonka?

    Just found a recent article about Owens and it might answer why he had such a brief NFL career* due to injuries. It appears one of the worst Caste-stooges in history, Barry Switzer, ran him way too much at Oklahoma -- averaged 36 carries per game as a senior and had 55 rushes in one game. No big time modern back would ever have to endure that type punishment.

    WIR, so if Owens was more of a "powerback", that means Christian McCaffery is the first and only traditional "tailback/halfback" selected in round one since the 1970 merger. Wow, CMAC really is a "outlier"!

    Good points. Some two decades after Cappelletti left PSU, the Nittany Lions had a pair of bigger backs named Jon Witman and Brian Milne that could dominate games, when given the chance. Both were selected in the 4th round of NFL Draft, but neither did much but block in the NFL as "pure fullbacks".

    Witman was a tall, upright runner, who actually looked more like a tall running back, than a blocking fullback -- a role he was forced into with the Steelers. Brian Milne, who bore an amazing physical resemblance to Larry Csonka (dark mustace, bushy forearms), was the goy I thought could've really been a star in the collegiate game (like Cappelletti), if he was allowed to run more. He overcame some serious health issues in high school, but recovered and was track and football star in college. Milne and Witman were collegiate blockers for eventual NFL busts Ki-Jana Carter and Curtis Enis, if I remember correctly?....Another goy that stands out at Penn State was Tim Shaw, an amazing high school tailback, with 4.4 speed (flashed at the NFL Combine) and tremendous power, who was forced to linebacker (clearly not his best position) by some racist running back coach at PSU. One could only wonder what he could've done at running back in the Big 10, given the chance? Unfortunately, Shaw is currently facing some very serious health issues, which no doubt played a part in truncating his NFL career as a undersized linebacker/special teamer.



    * http://projects.oudaily.com/steve-owens/
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  11. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Thing about Owens' size, he played before sumos were brought in on the offensive and defensive lines. A 300 pound lineman was an extreme rarity in the early 1970s. The players may have been as tall as they are today, but they were leaner. 215 pounds was a pretty big college back for that time.

    I attended Penn State in the late '70s when Matt Suhey was there. He ran for more yards each year, from 487 as a freshman to 638 as a sophomore, 720 as a junior and 973 as a senior. But he was always a complimentary piece of the running game. He did a lot of blocking for Curt Warner when Warner was a freshman phenom. Suhey played at a time when Penn State had a WR that went on to the NFL (Jimmy Cefalo), and had solid backs like Mike Guman that were little used at the next level.

    I was working at a restaurant while a student at State College, and a black co-worker refused to believe me when I told how him Suhey had scored on a 65 yard run in which a black DB had the angle but couldn't catch him. Another co-worker was a White kid who had been an all-state running back in PA and was recruited by Michigan to play tailback but quit school after a year. I never could get the exact reason why out of him, but just shows back then when White kids were still being recruited at now taboo positions that they often didn't take advantage of it. Lots of professional White athletes in the '70s were flakes, as we've discussed in other threads.

    Suhey had long and productive NFL career. He was the fullback to Walter Payton but I was surprised how often Mike Ditka "allowed" him to run and catch the ball. He had over 5,000 total yards in the NFL, only about 2,300 less yards than Mike Alstott accumulated. His career rushing average was 3.6 yards per carry but he was used a lot near the goal line and on third and short yardage situations. Pro Football Reference lists him at 5' 11" 217 pounds, only two pounds more than Owens. Suhey could have easily been a successful NFL tailback. Here's Suhey's NFL stats: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SuheMa00.htm
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  12. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Jeff Kinney who has been talked about here was drafted by KC to replace the generation of running backs that played in SB I and IV was drafted in the first round in 71'. He was a bust who ended being a blocking back for a cup of coffee for OJ Simpson before he was cut and decided to get on with his life.
     
  13. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    Steve Owens was strictly a power back, inside runner type. Going into the 1970 draft Owens was downgraded, too slow, no receiving experience. Here's the kicker: three WHITE RBs were drafted ahead of Steve Owens, Larry Stegent Number 8 by the Cardinals, Bob Anderson Number 11 by Denver, Norm Bulaich Number 18 by the Colts. Owens went Number 19 by Detroit.

    Stegent had good weight-speed but was always hurt at Texas A&M. He was healthy for several all star games, looked good. Then he tore up a knee in 1970 training camp, hung around for a few years, did nothing. Anderson had a journeyman career. Bulaich had a history of pulled muscles at TCU, great size-speed, had a fair year for Colts 1970 Super Bowl Champions. He had a hot start in 1971, close to best back in league early in the season, then injuries. Traded to Eagles in 1973, with Dolphins from 1975-79, good spot player for Don Shula.

    Detroit felt Steve Owens would be durable due to heavy load at Oklahoma. Ironically, he had injury problems except for 1971. Owens had a bad knee injury in the 1974 Thanksgiving Day game, ironically on a 27 yard run, longest of his career. He never played again.

    BTW, a fifth RB was drafted in the 1970 first round, Duane Thomas by Dallas at Number 23. Thomas was considered a head case even then, which is why he went after the others.

    I checked pro football reference for the draft numbers. I followed all these players at the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  14. sport historian

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    Owens was not like Billy Sims, didn't have Sims' explosiveness. Oddly, both Owens and Sims had career ending injuries as their final play in the NFL. So did a third Heisman winner, Bo Jackson.
     
  15. sport historian

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    These men are not "goys," they are white men.

    John Riggins was nothing like Cappelletti, Vardell, Muster. The scouting report (source the late SI writer Paul Zimmerman) on Riggins at Kansas was "230 pounds, great speed and finesse, good hands, doesn't block much. In other words a white Jimmy Brown."

    The early 70's Jets with Namath were a passing team. Riggins did well in 1971-72 but had a knee injury late in 1972 season. Held out next year, production dropped, went over 1000 yards in 75, played out option went to Redskins in 1976. Used as blocker, another season ending knee injury in 1977. From then on had good years, got plowhorse reputation.

    In early Jet days, Riggins was a power-speed back, which Csonka never was. And he was one of those 70's white players Don referred to who didn't always play with full intensity.
     
  16. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    No you are right I meant in terms of blowing out their knees and having truncated careers.
     
  17. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    If you look at the numbers and if Riggins had his "head on straight" , wasn't used as a blocking back by George Allen and stayed healthy he probably would have broken Jim Brown's lifetime rushing record first.

    His career had a statistical resemblance to Marcus Allen. There styles were completely different.
     
  18. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Younger posters wouldn't understand but the NFL was a completely different league pre 78'. I remember when it was Ohio St. 3 yards and a cloud of dust football that was played by most teams.

    If you look at most NFL teams from the early 70's the fullback was the workhorse and the tailback was the complimentary back. If I hadn't been a young fan in the Csonka era I don't think I would be a fan of this era. The shootout game between the Rams and KC this year would have me tuning out as that has no resemblance to the football I LOVED from this era.

    PS if you had a dynamic tailback like Simpson , he would be the workhorse, Mercury Morris who was only 170 pounds would probably be a slot guy now(if he could run proper routes).
     
  19. wile

    wile Mentor

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    I'm a mid 50s boomer and the 3 yards and cloud of dust is what made football dear to me. If I had grown up soley on basketball on grass I could forgo football. When people start talking up the shotgun QBs I hope for a crushing blindside hit, damn do I hate the shotgun only offenses with a white hot passion.

    My football philosophy is that every inch of the field must be contested by the offense which in short means the middle must be tested so as to draw in the defense to open up the outside. That is mostly done from a two back set with QB under center. Even my local HS team played shotgun only and sucked royally till the final three games of the year when they added the two back set.

    Prediction time, Rogers in GB has not done squat since Kuhn got his walking papers and if Rogers is locker lawyering up into the usual shotgun only EgoBacker then he might as well cash his checks while the fan base waits for the next QB.
     
  20. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    Back in the early 70's, the "Pro Set" was a popular offensive formation with the fullback and halfback lined up side-by-side behind the QB under center. I like this formation as it allows for a much more diverse set of running plays. The defense would never know which back was going to block, which was getting the ball, which way the play was going until it was already in motion. The Dolphins are the easiest to illustrate here as 90% of their plays came out of this formation with Czonka and Kiick.
     
  21. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    The Steelers often lined up that way with Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier. Bleier was always the clear number two in touches, but did go over 1,000 yards rushing in '76, which was the best Steelers team of their dynasty years even though they lost in the AFC Championship game to Oakland that season when both Harris and Bleier were injured.

    Bleier, like many of the others we've mentioned from the '70s, wouldn't get a sniff at running in the NFL today. Average size, average speed. But he served in Vietnam and was wounded, which worked in his favor back then. Now it's only black guys like that smurf Reynolds who went to one of the military academies and keeps getting opportunities in the NFL because of it even though it's obvious he's not very good.

    I was amazed by Sport Historian recalling that four, yes four, White running backs were drafted in the first round in 1970, the first four taken that year. And many from that era washed out because of injury or not playing well, just like many black RBs taken early do now. But they were still getting a fair opportunity back then to succeed or fail on their merits, as it should be. Then within a few years, the White RB suddenly became a rarity. Why is that? Only someone blinded by ideology can't see that deliberate policies are what changed the racial dynamics of football.

    Think of the unbeaten 1972 Dolphins, with two White running backs (Csonka and Kiick) along with Mercury Morris (and a White starting WR) and 10 Whites starting on defense. That might as well be 1872 compared to how dramatically the NFL began shifting shortly afterward, with the major college programs in lockstep.

    It's social engineering on a massive scale. The Caste System in sports is the template for the replacement of Whites in all areas of society wherever possible as quickly as possible, with the corporate media and the fedgov the driving enablers. Sports was much easier to pull off due to the media concentrating on black speed and jumping ability and Whites' alleged lack thereof, but the anti-White (communist) takeover is now so far advanced that the agenda is out in the open for anyone but the dumbest to see, but the psywar is also so advanced that aware Whites are reduced to discussing it anonymously on the ever more censored and marginalized areas of the internet.
     
  22. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    This formation was popular in the 60's too, I recall Green Bay using it and Cleveland with Jim Brown and Leroy Kelly. I seem to recall SMU using this with Craig James and Eric Dickerson in the early 80's too.

    Yes like I stated in previous posts the power I formation all but says the tailback is getting the hand off and the defense can try and converge on the deep back.
     
  23. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    Bill Belichick began his career as an NFL assistant coach in 1976, at the age of 24. Believe it or not, Bill mentioned to the media (perhaps 4 or 5 years ago) that one day he might consider bringing the "Pro Set" back and giving it a long look. Was he getting a bit nostalgic and really thinking about bringing it back or just messing around with the local media?

    While Belichick did not bring it back, Washington State head coach Mike Leach has. Last season, the Cougars utilized the "Pro Set". Not sure how often, but I was watching them against Arizona (November 17, 2018) and they absolutely destroyed the Wildcats using the formation all night. WSU had 55 points at the half. Wound up scoring 69 in the game, but could've scored at least 90 if they wanted to -- they ran down the clock in the second half.

    Christian McCaffery look-a-like Max Borghi played the Rocky Bleier role (second fiddle) that night (check Don's post #171) and had 115 yards from scrimmage on only 14 touches. Things got so bad, a deeply humiliated black Arizona safety kept intentionally skull-cracking (helmet to helmet) Max until the officials had to eject him. Should've also received a long suspension from the Pac-10. Mike Leach's crew proved the "Pro Set" can still be effective.

    If any posters are wondering what the "Pro Set" looked like, here's a video from 1985 where the underdog Patriots went down to Miami and beat the Dolphins on the road in the AFC Championship game. Patriots used several backfield formations that day, including the "Pro Set". Craig James led the way with a 100 yard-plus game.


     
  24. jacknyc

    jacknyc Master

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    Some of you might remember this weekly show, which was called The Week in Pro Football (or something like that).
    There are many of these on youtube, if you want to see football from the 60s and 70s.
    This one in particular featured running backs, many of whom were white.
    I miss that era of football.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019

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