White RBs and 100-yard games

Discussion in 'NFL' started by Van_Slyke_CF, Sep 27, 2010.

  1. wile

    wile Mentor

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    I never seen him running behind blockers either, even his college coach said that was his strength, so a FB or pulling guard on the edge then Danny would have easily gotten many 100yd games. Another thing I don't remember them dragging his pass routes in front of the LBs either which he would burn like a forest fire.
     
  2. link

    link Newbie

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    Steve Young 1990 vs NOR 102 yards
    Johnny football 2015 vs KC 108 yards
    Tim Tebow 2011 vs Oakland 118 yards
    Not RB's obviously but still worth a mention Tebow especially I was reading had the highest % of Yards from Scrimmage to come from the ground all time among QB's in the NFL if he was black he would be a RB or TE/WR almost certainly still in the NFL
     
  3. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    If you want to go back a ways, Bears QB Bobby Douglass rushed for 117 yards on October 15, 1972. Douglass ran for 968 yards in 1972 (14 game schedule), averaging 6.9 yards per carry.
     
  4. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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  5. wile

    wile Mentor

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    Douglass wore out the astroturf at Soldier Field with skipping the ball off it repeatedly, total left handed cannon arm. I knew a guy who used to play softball with him up in the Northern burbs of Chicago and even in his forties he could throw the ball from the center field fence to home plate. After the BD experiment the Bears went with Vince Evans who completed wearing out the astroturf with his skip the football tricks, and then had a long career being a Black QB.
     
  6. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    Amazingly, Woody only had one 100 yard game as a receiver: December 6th, 2010, when he had 4 receptions for 104 yards. It was on a Monday night, I believe, against the Jets and their sorry, obese, 2nd generation caste stool head coach (Rex Rhino), who had famously dubbed him with the nickname "Little Fuc&er" on that HBO show ..... and had recently cut him....Fat Rex did him a huge favor!

    On September 7th, 1997 ex-Canadian collegiate star Tim Tindale posted very similar numbers for the white friendly (at the time) Buffalo Bills against the Jets: 4 catches for 105 yards.

    Tindale had an amazing career (in a sad way). Finished his career with only 5 catches for 104 yards. How does a goy have a 4 rec/105 yard game and never have another NFL touch?

    I can't find a good video of it, but I will best remember Tindale's game against the Dolphins in the 1995 playoffs: 4 rushes for 68 yards, including a stunning 44 yard TD. I thought after that he'd have a Travis Jervey type career. But even a career as a special teams mascot, who occasionally got some garbage time touches, would never happen.

    http://www.nfl.com/player/timtindale/2503364/careerstats
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  7. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I have only vague memories of Tindale, who may have been a star in the NFL had he received even 10 percent of the opportunities blacks get at running back. Yet he's just one of literally hundreds of White RBs who could have shined over the past 40 years of blatant, institutionalized, media-approved segregation in the NFL.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg compared to the many outstanding White high school running backs who weren't allowed to continue their dream of playing professionally by not being recruited or by being forced to switch positions to play in college.
     
  8. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    *UPDATED* MASTER LIST OF 100 YARD GAMES BY WHITE RUNNING BACKS DURING THE CASTE ERA

    2010-2019: Total of 13 so far
    1) Peyton Hillis: 7
    2) Christian McCaffrey: 4
    3) Toby Gerhart: 1
    4) Rex Burkhead: 1

    2000-2009: Total of 8
    1) Mike Alstott: 4
    2) Brock Forsey: 1
    3) Peyton Hillis: 1
    4) Brian Leonard: 1
    5) Brad Hoover: 1

    1990-1999: Total of 9
    1) Mike Alstott: 3
    2) Gil Fenerty: 2
    3) Merrill Hoge: 1
    4) Brad Muster: 1
    5) Tommy Vardell: 1
    6) Scott Lockwood: 1

    1980-1989: Total of 52
    1) John Riggins: 19
    2) Craig James: 9
    3) Rob Carpenter: 8
    4) Merrill Hoge: 3
    5) Larry Moriarty: 3
    6) Matt Suhey: 3
    7) Mark van Eeghen: 2
    8) Dan Doornink: 1
    9) Joe Dudek: 1
    10) Hokie Gajan: 1
    11) John Cappelletti: 1
    12) Rick Kane: 1

    The decade we can use for comparison purposes, 1970-1979. The last decade before the full implementation of the Caste System against White RBs. The list from this decade is still under construction, but 138 100 yard rushing performances have been identified so far.

    1) Larry Csonka: 19
    2) John Riggins: 15
    3) Marv Hubbard: 10
    4) Ed Podolak: 9
    5) Jim Otis: 9
    6) Mark van Eeghen: 7
    7) Donny Anderson: 5
    8) Rocky Bleier: 5
    9) Norm Bulaich: 5
    10) Andy Johnson: 4
    11) Doug Kotar: 4
    12) John Cappelletti: 3
    13) Paul Hofer: 3
    14) Don Nottingham: 3
    15) Steve Owens: 3
    16) Ken Willard: 3
    17) Rob Carpenter: 2
    18) Jim Kiick: 2
    19) Jeff Kinney: 2
    20) Jon Keyworth: 2
    21) Scott Laidlaw: 2
    22) Rob Lytle: 2
    23) Ed Marinaro: 2
    24) Don McCauley: 2
    25) Larry Schreiber: 2
    26) Pete Banaszak: 1
    27) Jim Bertelsen: 1
    28) Bill Brown: 1
    29) Vince Clements: 1
    30) Scott Dierking: 1
    31) Dan Doornink: 1
    32) Doug Dressler: 1
    33) Walt Garrison: 1
    34) Les Josephson: 1
    35) Rick Kane: 1
    36) Dave Osborn: 1
    37) Mike Adamle: 1
    38) Fred Willis: 1
    39) Bobby Anderson: 1
    40) Bob Burns: 1

    Edited to add: Christian McCaffrey after his 101 yard rushing game against Atlanta on 12/23.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  9. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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    Good stuff, Freethinker. McCaffrey could be good for a few more this season as even if we complain about how Panthers have been using him at times, we can't complain about his touches atm. Burkhead would be a nice surprise but I doubt he will get enough carries at this point of the season. You never know.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  10. rockybleier

    rockybleier Mentor

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    I thought I got a couple more 100 yard 1970s guys.....
    Tom Matte and Tom Woodeshick
    Looking them up they had a 90 yard game or so, but all their best work came in the 1960’s.
    These bad ass football players will get a little respect right here, none the less.....
     
  11. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    Buffalo QB Josh Allen ran for 101 yards today. His 2nd 100 yard game of the season. Sad to say, but he is our 2nd best runner after McCaffrey.
     
  12. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    Bump for CMac's 4th 100 yard game of the season!
     
  13. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    Was doing some research on the USFL recently after I noticed the Cowboys once had a white RB/TE named Todd Fowler. Was able to find 4 impact white running backs in the league's three year history: Scott Stamper, San Antonio; Craig James, Washington Federals: Todd Fowler, Houston Gamblers and Mark Schellen, New Orleans Breakers.

    James was a potential NFL first round pick lured to the fledgling league by a large contract. He eventually jumped to the NFL and led the Patriots to the Super Bowl. His career was cut short due to injuries. Obviously the last white 1,000 yard runner until Peyton Hillis in 2010. Don't know much about Stamper, but he was a small college back that started for the woeful, cash-strapped San Antonio Gunslingers -- who had great uniforms.

    I wanted to focus on Fowler and Schellen. I don't remember these goys as players, but their stories show how brutal the caste system is and how long it has been around. One wonders, if giving a chance, could they have been stars in the NFL like some of the running backs (Csonka, Riggins, Van Eeghen) in the 1970's prior to the caste system?

    _____________

    Todd Fowler was a small college tight end who had not played tailback since high school. Houston, which featured Jim Kelly at quarterback, dabbled with him at fullback. But injuries hit and this is how he responded in a league full of top tailbacks, signed away from parsimonious NFL teams.

    Fowler was relegated to second fiddle the next season by Houston. He was eventually selected in the first round of an NFL Supplemental draft by the Dallas Cowboys, but was only used as a tight end/H-Back. Talk about wasted talent!

    Fowler Bio: http://houston-gamblers.com/id24.html

    _____________

    Mark Schellen was a starting fullback for the National Champion Nebraska Cornhuskers. Never knew about this goy until recently. Media reports claim he was the fastest member* of Huskers and pound-per-pound the strongest player on the team. He was the fastest player on a team that included Heisman Trophy tailback and USFL bonus baby Mike Rozier (who ran a 4.54) and a #1 overall pick in the NFL draft, wide receiver Irving Fryar.

    https://www.si.com/vault/1983/10/10/619656/staking-a-claim-to-best-ever

    Other sources claim Schellen ran in the low 4.50's, but most say he was the fastest Nebraska Cornhusker*. After starting at fullback for one season, as New Orleans third running option and gaining 392 yards on 99 carries, Schellen was drafted by the 49ers in the special Supplemental Draft (like Fowler). Unfortunately, but not surprising, he never played in an NFL game. Typical bull$hit, even in that era: Smaller (5'10", 225lbs), blazing fast white tailback forced to bulk up and play a position he should not have.

    * https://hailvarsity.com/s/5135/minnesota-84-13-mark-schellen-and-hamburgers-on-the-sidelines
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  14. Heretic

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    I vaguely remember Schellen. I remember Tom Rathman more, who came up right after Schellen. By this time, Osborne was tired of (barely) losing to ultra-Caste Oklahoma almost every year so he swallowed the Caste Kool-aid formula and decided to try and use the same template as Switzer...thus, Gill, Rozier and Fryar. Although all were very good players that made significant contributions, this left super-talented homegrown players like Schellen in a racial apprenticeship position. It's a shame because if Schellen would have come on the scene a couple years earlier there would've been no racial apprenticeship and he could've been the next John Riggins and maybe put a dent into the Caste System that came into complete fruition by the mid-80's.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  15. Rotomoney

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    CMac is the man.
     
  16. Truthteller

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    Thanks for the reply, Heretic. There have only been three white RB's selected in the first round of the NFL Draft dating back to 1974 and all three were from Stanford: Muster ('88), Vardell ('92) and McCaffery ('17)....You could also throw in Toby Gerhart, who was drafted in round two, but could've been a first rounder and almost won the Heisman, as a tailback.

    Weird thing is, what other school has even come close to Stanford in, say, the last 30 years?

    Can't think of any, perhaps Purdue and some other Big Ten schools (Penn State, Iowa, Wisconsin) have produced some decent RB's, but most were fullbacks in college and the NFL. Mike Alstott was a very rare exception. Even the "Academic Schools" like Northwestern, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt and Duke rarely feature a white RB.

    Nebraska has had a lot of fantastic fullback's (Schlesinger, Makovika brothers, Janovich, ect.) over the years, but haven't produced a single impact white tailback since the early 1970's. How does that happen? Huskers could not produce an Alstott or even a Luke Staley or Zach Line type in over four decades?

    Last time I checked, Nebraska wasn't/isn't Mississippi with a large black population and they haven't been full Caste for a decades like Oklahoma?

    Could an Eric Crouch, Scott Frost or Gerry Gdowski type goy did it given a chance? All were non NFL prospects at quarterback. I vaguely remember Gerry Gdowski, a Nebraska track-legend*, who almost rushed for 1,000 yards as a senior. Perhaps could've been the star tailback that could've vied for the Heisman Trophy?


    *http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=1088775

    P.S.: Last week I saw Gdowski's name, he's currently the quarterbacks coach at Vanderbilt. That's why I remembered him. Man, he was lightning fast!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  17. rockybleier

    rockybleier Mentor

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    Burkhead.....
     
  18. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    You got me Rocky. Can't believe I flat out forget about his junior year!

    So that was one goy (for one season) in over 4o years. Even as good as he was as a junior in 2011, he never really could put together a Heisman season as a senior, as Detroit Lions bust Ameer Abdullah took his top spot in 2012. He went from 1,357 yards & 15 TD's as a junior to 675 & 5 TD's as a senior*.

    Very reminiscent of Brian Leonard at Rutgers. Awesome as a sophomore and junior, then replaced by Ray Rice as a senior, when the Leonard "Heisman hype" was starting..


    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/nebraska/2012.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  19. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    It began as early as the mid to late 1970's and until now. Colleges suddenly quit recruiting white RB's and white WR's. I was in my early teens in the late seventies and early eighties and had aspirations of being a RB in college. I was a 1,000 yard RB in 7 games as a Freshman in HS, and our coach changed me slot back when I came up to varsity in favor of a black RB who was the third or fourth fastest player on our team. Our QB was white and the fastest player on our team. You've heard my sons story here a dozen times. After his junior season, there were 3 WHITE North Carolina HS RB's in the top six in the state in terms of rushing yards. My son was recruited by some D-1AA schools, but the other two white RB's were never to be heard from again. I know there are other states as we've documented with the same issue. The real question is how many white RB's have been overlooked at the HS level and below. They don't have a chance. That's why the odds are incredible when a white RB makes it to the D-1 level much less the NFL. Think about what a white RB has to overcome from elementary school on up!
    Again, I think there will be lots of discussion on the combine thread once it gets going!
     
  20. rockybleier

    rockybleier Mentor

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    It’s no surprise to any of us, but he was hurt his senior year.....As a freshman and sophomore he had to sit behind Helu.....Both he and AA fizzled as pros, yet got plenty of opportunity, whereas Rex sat in Cincy, but hey, at least Cincy kept him around for four years unlike many of our guys......
     
  21. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    Thanks for the input and feedback, Rocky B. and CSpeed. Having put together a good part of the 100 yard games list above, I did a lot research several years back to find these players. Most of the players I knew nothing about, had to find old photos of them to confirm they were white. Doug Dressler photo was tough to find; Bob Burns I assume is white because his son was the Oakland A's starting CF fairly recently?

    But I noticed a definite trend: White running backs started to almost completely disappear in the very early rounds of the NFL Draft by the mid-1970's. And the few that were drafted fairly high in the latter part of the 1970's had entered the "college pipeline" in the early-to-mid 1970's....So, this is similar to the timeline of discrimination at the position you faced, CSpeed.

    Question is why did it happen? I have no idea? But it certainly was sudden!

    _____________

    Also, I want to quickly amend a note I wrote about the amazing Todd Fowler: He never played running back in high school or college. Again, the Houston Gamblers, which featured Jim Kelly at quarterback, dabbled with him at fullback out of college. But injuries hit and this is how he responded:

    Simply stunning! His 1984 season must have been very much like the amazing 1999 season Patrick Jeffers had for the Carolina Panthers, after Rae Carruth was arrested for conspiring to murder his girlfriend.

    For those that do not know, the USFL was not a "minor league"; it was a "rival spring league"....... In 1984 the USFL featured at least 5 running backs that were expected to be NFL first round picks (H. Walker; M. DuPree; M. Rozier; C. James, Tim Spencer). They also stole a Chargers first round pick at RB (G. Anderson) and lured away Bills All-Pro Joe Cribbs....This doesn't even account for all the 2nd and 3rd round potential NFL Draft tailbacks they lured away?

    But it's Todd Fowler who holds the USFL record for most rushing yards in a game (208) and he rushed for over 1,000 yards in just over half a season. A goy that never played running back in high school or college? And he did it at the age of 21!

    Yet, he soon disappeared into the Caste-black hole, back to tight end...actually backup tight end in Dallas?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Fowler
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  22. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Vardell was drafted and used as a fullback by the Browns, much like Alstott until he wrecked a knee and was never the same.

    Not sure how the Bears classified Muster when they drafted him, but his peak year was just 141 carries for 664 yards in 1990, with his second best total being 98/414 in '92. I looked at a few different sources for the first round of the '88 draft and some have Muster listed as a RB, others as a FB. But he was essentially the successor to Matt Suhey, who was the Bears FB who blocked for Walter Payton and also was used more as a runner than Muster -- four different seasons with at least 100 carries compared to just one by Muster. Neal Anderson had two thousand yard rushing years while Muster was with the Bears, pretty sure Muster was never considered as other than a fullback from the time he was drafted all through his NFL career.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  23. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    He was used similar to Mike Alstott, he was a hybrid fullback and tailback. In many formations he was the tailback out of the I formation. In other formations he was the fullback.

    Once he blew out his knee he became a pure fullback and carved out a decent career as a touchdown vulture in Detroit to Barry Sanders free style running.
     
  24. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I recall O.J. Simpson saying during a Monday Night Football game in '93 that Vardell was looking like an All Pro, which was pretty heady praise coming from Simpson. Vardell only had 99 carries his rookie year in '92, but in '93 was up to 171 carries for 644 yards before the knee injury early in '94 resulted in him never reaching as many as 200 rushing yards in any of the subsequent six seasons before he retired.

    It's important to note for younger readers who may not be aware of it that some fullbacks still carried the ball a fair amount in the '80s and '90s before it devolved into teams using them as pure blockers who get the occasional reception, or stopped using them altogether. Mike Alstott was the last fullback to carry the ball a fair amount, at least the last White one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  25. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    I actually forgot how fast Vardell was and he was a complete running back as he could run with vision and power and block a guy off the screen and had the hands of a receiver. It's too bad he blew out his knee or could have accumulated a decent total of yards from scrimmage over his career.

    Yes fullbacks died a slow death in the early to mid 90's in terms of touches. Really only Alstott got serious touches after the early 90's and many of his running touches were from the power I formation as the tailback with a fullback as the lead back. After Alstott, I can only recall Mike Tolbert getting decent touches(for the post modern fullback) and even he had his best season as spot starter at tailback when the injury bug hit.
     

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