west african are faster on avarage

Discussion in 'Track & Field' started by waterbed, Jun 20, 2010.

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blacks are naturally faster on avarage

  1. 00that blacks do beter at 100 meter is not genetic

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  2. blacks are faster on average genetically

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  1. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    I think west african blacks have some advantage in the 100 meter.I believe in caste in a lot of sports, the most in sports were you need scouts.I think blacks have on avarage a bit better top speed and give them their credit,( it would be cool if others give whites the credit for strength, shot put etc.) and top speed is not only important from like 30-70 meters but also the end part of your acceleration and of course also in deceleration pace, 70-100 meters because deceleration pace is just topspeed minus for most sprinters only a very slightly speed. I think Usain bolt's 9.58 is as rare as a white running 9.89 or so.Maybe Lemaitre can it in the future.That a lot of whites think or know that blacks have abit advatage at sprinting made the difference maybe a little bigger so the genitically 0.3 became 0.4 or so.
    White tribes did always mixed much more then others did.This is why in dna europeans have genes of all white tribes in their dna, and that you see nordic looking europeans, meditteranic looking ones all over europe, of course most nordic in the north and most meditteranice genes in the south, most celtic and Iberian in the west and most Slavic in the east.I tink maybe the mixcing of white tribes made as good at decathlon( i think from all white tribes are you can say they have on average good strength), all around athletes but maybe this is why blacks can be from 1 to 10 often 8.5 fro speed and 7 for endurance and whites 8 for speed and 8 for endurance and east african have good endurance but are less then blacks and maybe whites in the 100 meter.

    maybe i am wrong but this is how i think about it.
     
  2. freedom1

    freedom1 Mentor

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    I believe blacks are a little faster.

    That being said, there's still a caste system big time in football. The slight difference in speed does not justify the tiny number of whites allowed to play running back, wide receiver or defensive back. The slight difference is exaggerated. This site documents story after story of blatant discrimination, institutionalized, real discrimination. It just is.

    It exists in track. Whites haven't improved in the 100 meters in 30 years, in fact have regressed. Even if they improved slower than blacks, they should still improve.
     
  3. jwhite96

    jwhite96 Guru

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    Back in the day; I ran track in middle school and high school. I now know how to evaluate evidence or design a research study (a hobby). My experience in my opinion was as close to a decent research study on this question as I'm bound to see. On both teams , I was a member of, the top sprinters were white. Since both teams did not have runners who trained hard or trained in the off season, results were more likely related to genetics. On both teams, blacks were concentrated entirely in the sprints.So if anything , blacks should have outperformed whites just by sheer numbers. A very well designed study will never be done on this question. It would involve selecting whites and West Africans at random , having all factors which affect results accounted for to make each group as even as possible. For example, ideally the research subjects would have no experience or training in sprinting. Of course, having a parent who was a successful sprinter would exclude research subjects. So in absence of such a study, based on my limited experience in track, I have always believed blacks possessed no genetic advantage in sprinting. Their dominance of sprinting began 5 years after anabolic steroids became available in 1959
     
  4. waterbed

    waterbed Mentor

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    yes, lot of caste in american sports as basketball and american football. There have been a lot of hard trying to get soccer very non white with academies all over africa but it didn't succeed:)
    I have also seen that accelration over 20 meters whites are even a little faster in soccer and in 40 yards american football the speed difference have to be very minimal if there is any over this distance.
    But in a sprint with more % topspeed i think blacks have advantage on average.

    what was the ratio( amount of black and white sprinters)white sprinters and black sprinters in the 50's ?
    if the ratio is the same as it is now then it can be non genetic.
     
  5. The Master

    The Master Guru

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    I also think there is some difference Genetically. I'm pretty sure blacks have advantage on certains sports (sprint...) and white on others (swimming...).

    And I don't feel inferior or have any complex because of that[​IMG]

    Edited by: The Master
     
  6. freedom1

    freedom1 Mentor

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    I know some who post on this site have the contention that steroids have more impact on black than white performance. That may be true. As a point of interest, I looked up the 100 meter times of East German male sprinters. The entire East German sports machine was known to be on steroids. What was interesting was there was quite a list of names, more extensive than that listed below. The point being that they were juicing, and specifically making their best effort at that time in the short sprints.

    Frank Emmelman 1986 10.06
    Thomas Schroder 1986 10.10
    Sven Matthes 1989 10.11
    Eugen Ray 1977 10.12
    Steffen Bringham 1986 10.13
    Olaf Prenzler (200 meter specialist, couldn't find his 100 PB)

    Thomas Munkelt (110 meter hurdles 1980 gold medalist) also competed in this era.
     
  7. jwhite96

    jwhite96 Guru

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    East Germany didn't participate in the 1984 Olympics. The silver medal winning time was 10.2. So Emmelman or Schroeder could have at least captured silver had East Germany participated in 1984 . By 1988 East Germany's sports program was probably close to being on life support since 2 years later the whole Warsaw pact collapsed.
     
  8. The Master

    The Master Guru

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    we can not compare doping in the 1980's and now. In the 1980's the best time by a white was 10'00 and the best for a black was 9'93.

    I just want to add than I do think there is some genetically difference between races, but I do think also there si a social fact.

    It's been since the 1980's only that whites are considerably slower than blacks.

    It would be interesting to put in parallel the white record and the black record since Jess Owens for example.

    Another fact is to compare with women.

    Best performance by a black woman : 10'65 (Carmelita Jeter)
    By a white : 10'77 (Privalova and Lalova). Of course the Griffith-Joyner is like a (bad) joke for me.

    So there is a slight advantage for blacks in sprint, but not a huge one I think.

    Edited by: The Master
     
  9. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    I will add my two cents.If blacks have an advantage, in my opinion it is due mostly to the number of west africans that have longer arms, legs, and a shorter torso. This is ideal for sprinting. The thing is that there are millions and millions of whites also built like this. The vast majority of whites never take up the sprints. If I was a track coach looking for sprinters, I would look for certain body types first. Whitescompeted very equally until several decades ago.Whites have gotten slower. That tells me that is in more of the mental brain washing than anything else. If whites in the U.S. ever took up tracklike they play the three major sports, they could do some serious damage! In the United States, most whites end up in football or baseball if they play sports. In Europe they end up in soccer(football). I have nodoubt in my mind about that.

    You also have to consider that some sprinters excel even with short legs and a long torso. Michael Johnson was built like alot of whites are. Long torso and short legs yet he was a double world record holder in the 200 & 400 meters. So overall, I believe it it mostly a numbers game. If we had a few more Lemaitre types, more whites would get excited about sprinting.

    Hell even Macrozonaris didn't start sprinting until high school after watching the olympics. He ran a 10.03 as a p.b. despite the very late start. So my vote is no. I believe whites can compete. I may be one of the few but I stand by my hypothesis!Edited by: white lightning
     
  10. FastEuro

    FastEuro Newbie

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    you are right about the body type...long legs with short torso are very common amongst sub-saharan africans and is most beneficial in sprinting and jumping - and there are whites built this way though not as prevalent. Michael Johnson had a typical "white" body type (long torso, short legs despite being 6'1") yet was super fast. What it comes down to is to tailor your style based on your strengths. Michael Johsnon had the long torso and short legs but compensated it by developing a very very fast turnover and lower knee lift which helped him propel forward than if he ran like a long legged carl Lewis who had high knee lift and long stride. We are all built differently, so it is best to use what we have and develop it to its full potential.
     
  11. The Master

    The Master Guru

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  12. greyghost

    greyghost Mentor

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    yo, dead right white soccer players are the fastest [​IMG]
     
  13. greyghost

    greyghost Mentor

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    and in the world of modern athletics, typical or Atypical body types have very little to do with with fast twitch types 2 A or B muscle .torsos long legs etc,these ideas are scientifically completely unfounded ie. rubbish. a prime example being stefan holm . remember tommie smith was 6foot 3inches in 1968! and dave sime listed at 6foot 2.5 inches in 1960 . tall sprinters are not a new phenomenon. maurice greene short torso short legs, as had casey combest! [​IMG]
     
  14. SteveB

    SteveB Mentor

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    I agree with this statement 100%. Go to any AAU track meet and you will see little kids competing in the sprints. The ratio will be 5 black kids to 1 white kid, yet the white kids will win their share of races, even being outnumbered. While most of the white kids are playing Little League baseball, soccer, summer swim leagues, gymnastics, Pop Warner football, etc., the black kids are playing AAU basketball and track. Until track is as popular for white kids as those other sports, then we will have trouble competing at the highest levels.

    Just think if the ratios were reversed. If there were 5 white kids for every black kid competing at the junior levels, by the law of averages, they would win more races and the cream would rise to the top. There would be hundreds of Hunter Furrs and Jamison Jordans all across the country instead of just a few.
     
  15. greyghost

    greyghost Mentor

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    its interesting how americans usually look for differences ?????? and why??? [​IMG] ,brainwashing????
     
  16. freedom1

    freedom1 Mentor

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    The brainwashing we get here says "there are no differences." People just have different paint jobs. It's very politically incorrect here to look for racial differences.
     
  17. FastEuro

    FastEuro Newbie

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    Maurice Greene did not have short legs. You can be 5'6" with long legs or 6'5" with short legs. It is proportion. Green was proportioned with long legs for his height. His legs were very thick which gave a illusion of a shorter appearance, but they were very long. Michael Johnson had short legs. Anyone can run fast if they tailer their training to their specific body type. Some sprinters run due to power and strength, some run due to finesse and efficiency. Some run on turnover, others on stride length Some, like Usain Bolt, have a combo of both.
     
  18. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    yep, there are more people of west african sub saharan descent who have all the tools to run fast.
    A few %age points, but it's there.
     
  19. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Sorry mastermulti but I still have to disagree. With only 70 sprinters to go sub 10, that doesn't make the west africans superior. It's a numbers game. Kind of like if you go to a bar, the more women you talk to, the better your odds of getting a date. White sprinters are vastly underrepresentd worldwide in my honest opinion. I see possible hundredsof Lemaitre types. Will we ever see them run track? Who knows but if we could get America and Russia to make athletics a high priority with the whites in their country, I think we would see so many whites go sub 10, it would even be talked about anymore. Whites in Russian are forced into the military and other than that, they mostly choose football(soccer), boxing, or a few other sports. Athletics is not popular with the men like with the women. The Russian Women are a force. I would love to see the men fall in love with athletics and push each other to a higher level. Most of the male russian sprintersare average at best. If Russia and the US searched for white talent far and wide, you would see a different story.

    I'm not taking anything away from blacks who did it the right way. There are alot of very talented black sprinters but whites can compete and whites can win medals. We just need greater numbers. Blacks tend to go into only around 3 or 4 sports. Whites go into around 10-20 sports. Not to mention the scholastic and music side that we lose alot of potential talent to as well. I just don't buy into the black supremacy thing. Never have and never will. If they were that great, they wouldn't need to cheat. I suspect that the vast majority of superstar western african sprinters have been on peds. Even Victor Conte said the same thing. Why would they need to cheat if they are born to run? Think about it. Anyone can cheat. For anyone to think that Powell or Bolt are not on something, all I can say is wake up and smell the coffee. I end my rant there. Edited by: white lightning
     
  20. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    To add to my point, most of the elite white sprinters come out of small european countries and a few out of Australia. I believe that there is so much bigger of a talent pool in the bigger nations like Russia and the USA. I also believe that the talent is superior to the smaller nations elite white talent. We lose so many of our athletes to baseball, football and other things. It just makes me sick. I know that we have whites in this country that could be olympic champions. The only problem is that no one is looking for them. The other problem is athletics in America is an afterthought. I hope that changes someday.Edited by: white lightning
     
  21. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    It depends what distance. I think blacks have a minuscule genetic advantage from 10/15 meters to 350 meters. They don't have a faster first few steps and they aren't better 400 meter runners. And they don't have better all round agility either!. My estimate also, is that whites have a slight genetic advantage as football players ([​IMG] Both American and European football) and blacks have a slight genetic advantage for basketball!
     
  22. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    OK W/L.
    I'm not talking sub 10(that arbitrary measurement)here but simply stating what I see as the case. I know we can agree to differ.

    When I say more of them seem to have the tools to sprint fast that's exactly what I meant. I in no way mean whites can't compete; that's why I visit here and cheer on the good white prospects.
    What I mean is there'll always be fewer who can reach a similar standard because I believe fewer have the physical tools necessary as evidenced by an overview of the population. That's quite apart from fewer wanting to get off their butts and really attacking it


    Even the juiced Europeans of the 70s and 80s seem to prove that 2% theory of mine.
    for example: My personal belief is that Lemaitre can peak at mid to high 9.80s, right up there with the famous 100 runners we all know of recent years but not approach Bolt or Gay. I'd LOVE to be wrong but this is my expectation. He has the tools to run fast as did some others, but it remains to be seen in what quantity he has them.

    Sure, you are correct in saying if more were encouraged to really get into it we'd have more whites of high calibre, but I'm not sure whites, due perhaps in part to our relative wealth, have the mental approach to be right up thereEdited by: mastermulti
     
  23. mastermulti

    mastermulti Mentor

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    I love my Aussie sprinters as you know, but here are their best results with good training and health care that our system gives.
    Off the top of my head...
    Shirvington- 10.03, 10.07 x 2, 10.09, 10.11 x 2, 10.14
    Johnson- 9.93 (1.8+ on a fast track), 10.05, then 10.10s+
    Josh Ross- 10.08, 10.10+ a few times
    Damien Marsh- 10.13, 10.16 x 2, 10.19 x 2
    Several others such as Dean Capobianco, Shane Naylor, Rod Mapstone Daniel Batman.....HIGH ten teens once only, then 10.20s
    two of these guys are part aboriginal (but NOT African) so I included them.
    Sure there were only 20 million of us but they were nurtured to their best.
    There have been hundreds of west african descent at that standard or better. They were worthy competitors at their best but not at the top of the treeEdited by: mastermulti
     
  24. BrockFan

    BrockFan Newbie

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    I think you might be neglecting the fact that it's a numbers game on the black side too. Trindon Holliday is a6.54 60 meter,10 flat 100 meter guy,and all of these football playersare faster than he is.. and none of them run professional track, and only a handfulof them even rancollege track.


    4.34 Trindon Holliday

    4.24 Rondel Melendez
    4.24 Chris Johnson
    4.28 Champ Bailey
    4.28 Jerome Mathis
    4.28 Jacoby Ford
    4.29 Jay Hinton
    4.29 Stanford Routt
    4.29 Fabian Washington
    4.30 Darrent Williams
    4.30 Yamon Figurs
    4.30 Darrius Heyward-Bey
    4.31 Santana Moss
    4.31 Aaron Lockett
    4.31 Michael Waddell
    4.31 Johnathan Joesph
    4.31 Justin King
    4.31 Tyvon Branch
    4.32 Antwan Harris
    4.32 Tim Carter
    4.32 Kevin Garrett
    4.32 Chris McKenzie
    4.32 Troy Williamson
    4.32 Chad Jackson
    4.32 Tim Jennings
    4.32 Jason Hill
    4.32 Chris Houston
    4.32 Orlando Scandrick
    4.33 Karsten Bailey
    4.33 Chris Chambers
    4.33 Carlos Francis
    4.33 Darren McFadden
    4.33 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie


    Jeffery Demps said he most likely ran his last race after winning the NCAA's. C.J. Spiller's a 6.58 guy, and he ran a 6.37 40 at the combine.There are probably over 100 guys who ran faster than him at their respective combines. There could have been over 100 sub-10 guys by now if guys like thesehad committed to track instead.

    There'sclear,distinct, documentedproofthat blacks with world-class speed eschew track for more lucrative sports, but without knowing their actual electronic numbers,saying there's a vast, untapped segment of white men possessing world class speed is just an assumption. If it were, it would be documented. EVERYONE sprintsin gym class growing up, and the cream naturally rises to the top.. just likeCombest did, just like Bruno did,Crawford did, and Jamison did. There would be alot more if your theory were true.
     
  25. BrockFan

    BrockFan Newbie

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    Also, I always see people throwing PED talk around Bolt and Powell, but rarely Gay. If Gay can run a 9.69 clean, why wouldn't Powell be able to run a 9.7's and 9.8's clean? What makes Gay physically superior to Powell?

    Powell's PB's

    2010 9.82
    2009 9.82
    2008 9.72
    2007 9.74
    2006 9.77
    2006 9.77
    2005 9.77
    2004 9.87
    2003 10.02
    2002 10.12

    I have a hard time believing someone can be that consistent and that elitefor that long, while being juiced, with nary asniff of suspicion.If he were from a super power, maybe. A couple years of stellar performance, maybe.But almost a decade long reign of dominance coming from aprimative, third world country? Unlikely.

    He would have either been caught, someone would have ran their mouth, testing procedure would have caught what he was using in 2004, or all of the above.
     
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