Toby Gerhart

Discussion in 'College Football Stars' started by white lightning, Oct 7, 2006.

  1. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    JC, I stated about Jones: "His hands in his last season in Jacksonville improved to the point that they were PRETTY GOOD though (I'd say ABOVE AVERAGE for a WR)".

    I only remember one drop on a down and in in the '08 season when I watched him in 3 games, but I remember two drops in limited action when he was the teams scapegoat during the '07 season. One was a TD in the end zone he should have had and another was a play where he got nailed going across the middle although many WRs would have dropped it.

    Jones also missed making a really tough catch in '07 that he "just barely" got his hands on on in the end-zone that was shown on ESPN, but I wouldn't blame that one on Jones (although he took heat for it) b/c Garrard didn't throw a good ball.

    I'm not mocking Jones. If Jones gets some chemistry with talented QB Palmer he could end up playing like Calvin Johnson or a faster Reggie Wayne (he was well on his way) if Lewis will actually let him play- we'll see!
     
  2. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    BTW, the only drop I saw Welker make was basically on a lost cause play in the Superbowl. I think it was 4th and 10 late in the game or something and he tried to catch the ball a few yards across the line of scrimmage with 3 defenders coming at him. For once the announcer made a fair assessment of the play. Wes wasn't going to get the first down anyway and tried to run before he caught it to avoid the three tacklers coming right at him. It was basically Brady's fault.

    The announcers also said after the game that Welker was the main reason the Pats stayed in the game. He had an incredible game with a Superbowl record 11 catches and started getting double covered b/c Moss didn't do much for the Pats. He would have been Superbowl MVP if the Pats had won. I think that about sums it up although I was a bit drunk when I watched it.Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
     
  3. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Matt Jones did develop a bit of a case of the drops while in Jacksonville, which was blown out of proportion by the media and DWFs. He also tried to make a few one-handed catches when using two hands was called for and likely would have resulted in making the play. I hate the trend toward one-handed catches as it's yet another example of basic fundamentals being discardedin order tomake a "highlight reel" playnow and then in between a lot of failed attempts, but it's rewarded as the media and DWFs love those one-handed snags.

    Jones seemed to have very little confidence while in Jax, understandably so given the way he was used and how his laid-back personality was constantly castigated for not being of the screaming, frenetic variety displayed by so many black players. Hopefully he'll build on his '08 season in Cincy this year if given the opportunity.
     
  4. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    The drops in that one game I specifically remember as it was the start of the "bad hands" criticizm he was given. Neither would be considered a drop by unbiased minds. The first "drop" was across the middle in which the ball arrived at the same time he got sandwiched between two linebackers - not a drop. The second was an attempt of difficult one-handed catch in the back of the end zone in which the defender also got a hand on the ball - not a drop.
     
  5. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    So you guys are assuming that unless Gerhart is NOT fumble prone, he may never become a feature runningback???

    You gotta blame the QB or credit the defense for a fumble. There's no such thing as a perfect receiver or ball-carrier.
     
  6. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    I think you're right now that I think back. One of his two end-zone "drops" that year he should have had though. So out of the 3 drops I remember- only 1 was a catch he was truly supposed to make. And only 1 drop I recall in his '08 season he was on pace for 1,000 yards. Bottom line: Jones was becoming a great receiver before he was white washed out of the league for a year.

    BTW, I heard something about TO having as many as 15 drops a few seasons ago from Sporting News- that's what I call bad hands!
     
  7. JReb1

    JReb1 Mentor

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    It depends on the team. If Gerhart goes to a team that has a coach (99.9% of them) that only sees a FB when they look at a White RB it's hard to see Toby fairing any better than Alstott, Hester, Leonard, Jervey and Hillis. As good as Alstott was when he got the chance to play HB "fumbles" were the excuse that was always used as to why he never had an offer or opportunity to be a starting RB on any team. I hope that Gerhart gets a fairer chance than those White RB's but wouldn't be surprised if he's playing FB 2 years from now. Even if Toby is given a chance to start he's only a couple of fumbles, bad games or 1 injury (see Staley) from obscurity because of his skin color...
     
  8. Animalmuther0

    Animalmuther0 Guru

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    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkwDO2WItawpV6EpsG4u7.85nYcB?slug=ms-gerhartstereotype042010

    A surprising article from Yahoo (Mike Silver...white apologist extraordinaire).

    Toby quote: "One team I interviewed with asked me about being a white running back," Gerhart says. "They asked if it made me feel entitled, or like I felt I was a poster child for white running backs. I said, ‘No, I'm just out there playing ball. I don't think about that.' I didn't really know what to say."Â

    A quote apparantly made to Silver by a scout..."One longtime NFL scout insisted that Gerhart's skin color will likely prevent the Pac-10's offensive player of the year from being drafted in Thursday's first round.


    "He'll be a great second-round pickup for somebody, but I guarantee you if he was the exact same guy â€" but he was black â€" he'd go in the first round for sure," the scout said. "You could make a case that he's a Steven Jackson-type â€" doesn't have blazing speed but he's strong and powerful and versatile."Â

    Man, do you think the caste whores out there are starting to see the light?
     
  9. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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    nice find, Animal!
     
  10. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    This article is (or at least was this morning) on the home page for yahoo sports and it includes a big picture of Toby from the combine. The drunks have to see this. There is no way to miss it!
     
  11. Highlander

    Highlander Mentor

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    The article is still on Yahoo!

    Here's the link (the one provided earlier here didn't work for me):
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-gerhartstereotype042010

    And here it is in it's entirety:

    <div>
    [​IMG]
    <h1 property="dc:title">Race factors into evaluation of
    Gerhart</h1>
    <div>
    [​IMG]
    <div rel="dc:creator">
    <div of="vcard:VCard">

    By Michael Silver</span><em property="dc:issued">[/i]

    </div>
    </div>
    </div>


    </div>






    PALO ALTO, Calif. â€" If you've seen Toby Gerhart
    carry the football, you're well aware that the former Stanford halfback
    and Heisman Trophy runner-up is about as subtle as Iron M</span>an. It's no surprise, then, that as the NFL
    draft approaches, the player one AFC front-office executive described as
    "a bowling ball with butter knives"Â is hell-bent on obliterating the
    perception that he lacks the athleticism to succeed in the pros.




    "I'm just a running back who tries to do what he can to win games
    and score touchdowns, but people have their opinions, and it's kind of
    frustrating,"Â Gerhart said earlier this month between bites of pizza.
    "People say, ‘He's slow,' or ‘He's not going to be able to break tackles
    at the next level.' In college I went up against players like [USC's] Brian Cushing</span> and Clay Matthews</span>
    â€" guys who ended up making the Pro Bowl [as NFL rookies] â€" and I ran
    through their tackles. It's too bad people look at you all weird
    because of a stereotype."Â

    When NFL scouts look at Gerhart, they see a 6-foot, 231-pound power
    back who ran for 1,871 yards and 27 touchdowns last season, getting
    edged out by Alabama's Mark Ingram in the closest Heisman vote in
    history. When they look at Gerhart's numbers from the NFL scouting
    combine, they see that he ran a 4.50-second 40-yard dash and registered a
    38-inch vertical leap, both impressive numbers for a player his size.



    Yet they also see a white guy trying to make it in the league as a
    feature back, something that has become increasingly rare in this era.
    Peyton Hillis,</span>
    now with the Cleveland Browns, led the Denver Broncos in rushing yards
    in 2008, but was limited to just 54 last
    season in part because of 2009 draft pick Knowshon Moreno's </span>addition.



    Race shouldn't be an issue, of course, but Gerhart can't help but
    believe that it has colored the opinions of at least some potential
    employers.



    "One team I interviewed with asked me about being a white running
    back,"Â Gerhart says. "They asked if it made me feel entitled, or like I
    felt I was a poster child for white running backs. I said, ‘No, I'm just
    out there playing ball. I don't think about that.' I didn't really know
    what to say."Â



    One longtime NFL scout insisted that Gerhart's skin color will likely
    prevent the Pac-10's offensive player of the year from being drafted in
    Thursday's first round.



    "He'll be a great second-round pickup for somebody, but I guarantee
    you if he was the exact same guy â€" but he was black â€" he'd go in the
    first round for sure,"Â the scout said. "You could make a case that he's a
    Steven Jackson-type â€" doesn't have blazing speed but he's strong and
    powerful and versatile."Â



    Gerhart isn't used to such comparisons. He's typically cast as the
    next John Riggins or Mike Alstott</span>
    or, less flatteringly, as an updated version of another former Stanford
    star, Tommy Vardell, who had an unremarkable NFL career after being
    picked ninth overall in the 1992 draft.



    "You hear that I'm like those guys, or like [current Cincinnati
    Bengals back] Brian Leonard,"Â</span>
    Gerhart says. "I see myself more like Deuce McAllister or Michael
    Turner</span>."Â</span>



    It's possible, of course, that Gerhart is overestimating his own
    abilities â€" if so, he certainly wouldn't be the first player to do so
    publicly in the weeks leading up to the draft.



    I've spoken with numerous NFL talent evaluators about Gerhart over
    the past few months, and there are plenty of skeptics who don't seem to
    be locked into mindless stereotypes.



    "I don't like him,"Â one NFC general manager told me at the combine.
    "If he's your No. 1 back, he's going to get killed by the end of the
    season, because he takes too many hits. And he has no special teams
    value. To me, what you see is what you get. He's pretty good at
    everything, but he doesn't do anything that's special at our level."Â



    Said an AFC front-office executive: "This guy runs exactly the way
    the hole is blocked and gets exactly what you think he's going to get â€"
    maybe a little more because he runs so hard, but nothing more explosive
    than that. He runs so upright, he's going to get lit up."Â'



    "There's no reason I shouldn't really like him, but I just don't,"Â
    added another AFC personnel executive. "He's not really shifty, but he
    gets yards. He's fast, but it's a long speed, and not really a quick
    speed. You want me to compare him to a black guy? How about T.J. Duckett?</span>
    There's a big, fast guy who hasn't been productive in the NFL."Â



    Yet others believe Gerhart's exceptional production at Stanford, a
    program that was struggling mightily upon his arrival, is indicative of
    his immense pro potential.



    "I love the guy,"Â says former Cardinals, Rams and 49ers scout David
    Razzano, who is based on the West Coast and attended several of
    Gerhart's games over the past two seasons. "You've got to see him live
    to appreciate him. He's not just a plodder. He's deceptively fast,
    elusive, has quick feet and has great vision at the line of scrimmage.
    And he's great in the red zone.



    "He's a bell-cow back. If there's nothing there, he'll get four
    yards. He was productive in high school and in college, and guys like
    that don't change â€" he'll be productive in the NFL."Â




    <div style="width: 300px;">
    [​IMG]

    <div>Gerhart ran for 178 yards and 3 TDs against USC
    last season.

    (Gary A. Vasquez/US Presswire)</span>
    </div></div>




    Gerhart, who was flown in for pre-draft visits by the Baltimore
    Ravens, Philadelphia Eagles, Browns and San Diego Chargers, says he'd
    consider playing fullback in the pros "if
    that's what it takes to get on the field."Â But he bristles at the
    notion that it might even be a consideration. "Prior to the
    combine, all
    I heard was, ‘He's gonna run in the 4.7s,'" Gerhart says. "I read
    this
    blog that said, ‘Why was Toby the only running back who had to run
    under 4.6 to not be classified as a fullback?' Fifteen other guys ran in
    the 4.6s at the combine, and nothing was said about them [playing
    fullback]."Â




    Plenty of Pac-10 defenders wish Gerhart had been typecast as a
    fullback during his collegiate career â€" or that the former Cardinal
    baseball star had chosen to focus on that sport. Certainly, no one at
    USC was devastated that Gerhart decided not to return for a fourth
    college season after his epic performance in Stanford's stunning, 55-21
    victory over the Trojans in Los Angeles last November, the high point of
    an 8-5 season that ended with a narrow Sun Bowl defeat to Oklahoma.



    "That's by far my favorite victory,"Â Gerhart says of the USC game.
    "We were up big at the end and hitting ‘em in the mouth â€" we ran 15 of
    the last 18 plays from the exact same formation, where we'd motion the
    tight end one way or the other and I'd run to that side. At one point
    one of their linebackers yelled, ‘If you guys run ‘Power' one more time
    I'm walking off the field.' It was classic."Â



    Oh, and here's some background information of which NFL teams might
    want to take note: Pete Carroll, USC's coach at the time, had tried to
    recruit Gerhart out of high school â€" as a fullback.



    In other words, underestimate him at your own peril, and brace
    yourself for maximum impact.***************************************************************
    Hmmm,
    I wonder if that "blog" he read was CF. <div id="sidebar"><div id="sky"><t></t><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><t><tr><td align="center">
    </td></tr></t></table></div></div>

    Edited by: Highlander
     
  12. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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    thanks for posting the whole thing, we need to archive articles like that one.

    "In other words, underestimate him at your own peril, and brace yourself for maximum impact." i love that!

    PS this is also great:

    "we ran 15 of the last 18 plays from the exact same formation, where we'd motion the tight end one way or the other and I'd run to that side. At one point one of their linebackers yelled, ‘If you guys run ‘Power' one more time I'm walking off the field.' It was classic."Â"Edited by: backrow
     
  13. Alpha Male

    Alpha Male Mentor

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    Just sent him this note via the link under thearticle:

    Micahel Silver-


    I applaud your article; I know first hand the political current that opposes truth and justice. I know that you must of course write this article from a neutral standpoint but you must, by now, sense the patent discrimination directed towards white males not just in sports, but in all facets of the New America: from college admissions screening for race to the work force abiding to goverment determined quotas. Sports is just microcosm of the bigger picture being painted by the talons of the powers that be.


    The fact that Toby is being questioned about his ability because of his race despite having all the tools to succeedd as a star back would, if the races were reversed, be the torent spark of a full frontal assualy by the MSM. Because Toby is white, the indigation is but a flicker. But writers like you are making headway, and I applaud you.


    Thank you.


    Edited by: Alpha Male
     
  14. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Great article!!!! The article also mentions that Hillis had a decreased role because of Slowshown Moreno.
     
  15. Alpha Male

    Alpha Male Mentor

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    "In college I went up against players like [USC's] Brian Cushing and Clay Matthews â€" guys who ended up making the Pro Bowl [as NFL rookies] â€" and I ran through their tackles. It's too bad people look at you all weird because of a stereotype."Â



    -It's ridiculous to believe that whites - like Cushing and Matthews - are capable of running down and tackling black running backs, but not capable of being the runner!

    "One team I interviewed with asked me about being a white running back," Gerhart says. "They asked if it made me feel entitled, or like I felt I was a poster child for white running backs. I said, ‘No, I'm just out there playing ball. I don't think about that.' I didn't really know what to say."Â

    -If the races were reversed, this would be a lawsuit in the making. Unbelievable - that these teams can get away with that.

    "One longtime NFL scout insisted that Gerhart's skin color will likely prevent the Pac-10's offensive player of the year from being drafted in Thursday's first round."

    -Yes whites in power love to discriminate against there own race. Must be unconscious or archaic elements left over from all the varying white tribessquabbling back in Europe.

    "Yet they also see a white guy trying to make it in the league as a feature back, something that has become increasingly rare in this era. Peyton Hillis, now with the Cleveland Browns, led the Denver Broncos in rushing yards in 2008, but was limited to just 54 last season in part because of 2009 draft pick Knowshon Moreno's addition."

    -Yes in part because of that but also because - and the author only implies this - because he was white. Yes only whites are conditioned to be the most successful at something and then willingly accept be demoted.

    "I don't like him,"Â one NFC general manager told me at the combine.

    -Because he is white and doesn't fit in your copy cat league; or perhaps because he is white and athletic and thus a receptor of your own inferiority complex by way of projection. If he was black, that'd be cool .

    "He's fast, but it's a long speed, and not really a quick speed. "

    Haha, probably my favorite. Yes, his forty time was too fast. He needs mroe burst through ten yards. Yeah, we know whites have no power or short burst speed.
     
  16. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Seems like quite a few scouts don't like Toby. Pretty sad stuff.
     
  17. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

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    Nice to see more articles like this coming out. I don't remember what it was like when Luke Staley was getting ready for the draft, but I have to think there has never been this much discussion of a White RB that centers around race in the whole Caste Era. Has to be a good thing. Some of the DWFs have to be connecting the dots.
     
  18. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Staley had some White running back chatter but nothing like this. This resembles the stories about Steve Mcnair when he was drafted in the mid 90's. Why he went to Alcorn State, teams that wanted him for fullback/tailback anything but qb.
     
  19. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Some of the DWF's may be waking up but you can bet that most will look at Toby as a fullback. Whichever team drafts him will probably take a lot of crap from the DWF's.
     
  20. Riddlewire

    Riddlewire Master

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    And yet, that didn't stop Darren McFadden from being drafted #4 overall. McFadden, who also runs straight upright, has a significantly worse weight-to-height ratio than Toby (he's too lightweight for his height). But I bet this same AFC front-office executive had McFadden listed as the #1 runningback on his team's board on draft day.
     
  21. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    If Toby were black none of these guys would be making these comments. It's going to take a lot to break the stereotypes that white running backs must face on a daily basis.
     
  22. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Was watch an ESPN program with Korn Julio and some black guy. Both said if Toby was black he would be drafted in the first round. Both like him and both said being white will hurt his draft status and pocket short term. But believe Toby will excel and become a major player and become a feature back. So at least they are speaking the turth.
     
  23. Fightingtowin

    Fightingtowin Guru

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    I wonder if some black players will go at him extra hard because he is white. I imagine some will--hell, some white players probably will--yet that didn't seem to be an issue in college. However, he kind of slid under the radar. McGuffie had multiple concussions and on one hand I think it's because he needs to adjust his running style and was thrown to the wolves as a true freshman on a terrible team in the Big 10, yet I think players were gunning for him. Maybe it was because he was white, maybe because he was a YouTube sensation, maybe both.

    I do, however, think if anyone can handle it, it's Gerhart. Messing with a 235lb running back is not easy...and trying will probably make you look bad.Edited by: Fightingtowin
     
  24. DixieDestroyer

    DixieDestroyer Hall of Famer

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    Glad Kornhole(d)iser & his pal spoke the truth. Those NFL GMs bad-mouthing Toby are probably totally immersed in caste propaganda.[​IMG]
     
  25. DixieDestroyer

    DixieDestroyer Hall of Famer

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    Glad "Kornhole(d)iser" & his pal spoke the truth. Those NFL GMs bad-mouthing Toby are probably totally immersed in caste propaganda.[​IMG]
     

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