There is another White Heavyweight Champ

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by jwhite96, Sep 25, 2005.

  1. jwhite96

    jwhite96 Guru

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    I watched the Klitschko-Peter fight on HBO and Peter won only 2 rounds,one of which was
    a 10-7 round where he clearly fouled Klitschko by punching him in the
    back of the head. The ref Randy Newman , a former white heavyweight ,
    totally ignored the blatant fouling by Peter. The first 2 knockdowns
    of Klitchko were the clear result of punching in the back of the head
    which is allowed in UFC but not in boxing. Klitschko , look excellent ,
    showing a lightning jab and incredible footwork for a
    heavyweight.George Foreman said Klitschko was doing a good imitation of
    Muhammad Ali, which is a high compliment for any large Heavyweight .
    Peter had both eyes almost complety closed by the blistering Klitschko
    jab.There is another white heavyweight champion!
     
  2. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    I think we should let pugnus back on the site temporarily just for laughs after this fight. That was suppossed to be the great black hope out there getting his ears boxed. To think that Peter was the favorite!


    Ido think that the problem with Vlad is not his chin but its his legs. He really didn't get hit in any of the "so-called knockdowns". They were mostly just push-downs and wiery legs. I think he is running too much and wearing his legs out. Even Ali took a breather on the ropes from time to time. Vlad is 6'6" - Emmanuel Stewart is asking too much from him - a big body like that can't just keep dancing around without getting tired. I would like to see him return to punching like his brother does and less dancing. Anyways it was good to see him dispatch the next great black hope.


    PS. The commentary on this fight was laughable. Lederman seemed very upset that Vlad won and kept complaining about his holding. Funny I don't remember much complaining about Ali's holding or the tons of black fighters that have followed who styled their fighting after Ali. Thank god Larry Merchant was there to set the record straight. He didn't let Lederman get away with his Vlad-hating comments.
     
  3. White_Savage

    White_Savage Mentor

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    Hitting in the back of the head isn't allowed in UFC either. It's a rule some fighters take advantage of in their fighting (some fighters use UFC's no kicking or kneeing a man on the ground rule even more egregiously), but I think it's a nessecary one in fight sports. Just too much possibility of damage from a back-of-the head hit.
     
  4. jwhite96

    jwhite96 Guru

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    Klitschko did exactly what Muhammad Ali used to do ,land jabs and some
    rights then use his large size and long arms to smother and hold the
    opponent which no one ever suggested was violating the rules. To
    credit Peter with 2 knockdowns after he pounded Klitschko in the back
    of head is absurd. According to the rules of boxing, Peter
    should've had 2 points deducted and Klitschko should have been
    awarded time to recover from the foul. If the 2 "knockdowns" are
    erased, Peter lost every round except for the one where he landed his
    one good punch . The obvious bias of the referee against
    Klitschko was slightly reminiscent of the Golota-Bowe fight
    where Golota was excessively penalized to the point where
    Bowe actually took several dives claiming he was fouled and Golota was
    disqualified. Then the natural violent behavior of Bowe's corner men
    took over and they assaulted Golota while he had his gloves on and
    couldn't adequately defend himself against the 3 or 4
    attackers. I guess the bros weren't ready
    for a white heavyweight champion. George Foreman who is no BS artist ,
    commented after that fight "Golota really whipped Bowe". Maybe
    the referee feared he would be assaulted like Golota if he enforced the
    rules evenly. There is one common denominator in all black-white
    confrontations ,even in boxing, black efforts to physically intimidate
    whites. Even an ultra liberal media outlet such as the NY TImes years
    back had a story on the vanishing white NBA player in
    their Sunday Magazine in which they vaguely alluded to this
    phenomenon in stating very talented white players who could have
    succesful NBA careers were "discouraged" and
    "uncomfortable" and quit professional basketball
    prematurely.
     
  5. dkr77

    dkr77 Guru

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    Larry Merchant was a breath of fresh air in that fight. I found it a little ridiculous that people would criticize Wlad for tying up his opponent when they praise Ali for doing the exact samething. And I also believe the ref should not have called the first two of the three of those knockdowns.
     
  6. JD074

    JD074 Master

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    Is there anything more nerve-wracking than watching a Wlad Klitschko fight?!? I couldn't sit the entire fight. The Great Black Hope knocked down a peg, for now. He's young and could get a lot better. But if our guys can beat him (and surely Vitali would've dominated him even more so,) then surely they deserve the respect of the boxing world. Who else is there in the heavyweight division? Toney? Byrd? What black fighters could challenge K2, especially Vitali?

    Various thoughts:

    Did they borrow that referee from the NBA? Geez.

    Kudos to Jim Lampley for countering Lederman every time he grumbled about Wlad's clinching by mentioning Peter's punches to the back of the head. It felt like Foreman and Lampley were secretly rooting for Wlad.

    I agree with KP. The punch that resulted in the third knock down was just a tap, and he simply lost his balance. They need to work on that. Strengthen his legs or whatever.

    Even though white beat black, it did somewhat underscore the perceived racial differences: Dr. Wlad was the tactician, the so-called "over achiever" not using overwhelming athleticism to beat his opponent: brainy, skilled, well trained, using every advantage at his disposal (height, jab, strategy, moving, clinching.) Except, perhaps, the way he blocked so many punches, especially all those left hooks. How can that not be considered "quickness" and great reflexes?

    Peter was the hard-hitting, hard-chinned (he got hit a lot but didn't go down,) not extraordinarily skilled or smart black guy who Wlad was trying to out-smart and contain to the best of his ability. Throughout the fight it felt like if Peter could land a few good shots he could end it, and Wlad had to use his wits to stop it. It was almost like a man trying to tame an animal, and succeeding. Did anybody else get that feeling? But I'm not criticizing Wlad at all. I only care if he wins, and he won. Period. Edited by: JD074
     
  7. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    JD, maybe you've hit on something that was subconsciously nagging me throughout the fight. I wanted to see Sam Peter flat on his back, wondering what happened to him. I wanted to see a white fighter dominate a black one, a cathartic release from all the racial stereotypes and bullsh*t we have to put up with everyday.
     
  8. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Let Peter fight Vitali and he would get killed.Wlad might have been able to knock him out if he would have went after him but they deemed it to be too risky.Steward came up with the game plan and Wlad stuck to it.I think in his next fight that you will see him be more aggressive.I did love the way he kept circling his victim like a shark as he worked over the eye until it was all swollen.Wlad is very accurate with his punches as he landed over twice as many as Peter did. [​IMG]
     
  9. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    I can't explain the boxing public's derisive hatred of the Klitschko brothers, outside of racism.

    These men are true renaissance men. They're strong and powerful, skilled fighters, fluent in five languages and have PhDs! Handsome, charitable, honorable, and classy. And they get no love from boxing fans???

    On the other hand, guys like Mike Tyson spend time in prison for rape and fans adore him. Clifford "the Black Rhino" Entienne is under investigation for murder. James Toney's newly minted and much heralded title is stripped from him for steroid abuse. Even the much-loved Holyfield has six illegitimate children with several different women. Fans consider Lennox Lewis a classy champion, yet even he engaged in plenty of trash talk and spouted off about his own greatness every time he opened his mouth. And everyone of these men is adored by the boxing public and sports media.

    Can anyone explain to me, outside of racism, why the boxing public has such animosity for the K2? IMO, there is nothing not to like about these two gentlemen.

    May the reign long in the heavyweight division.
     
  10. JoeV

    JoeV Guru

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    This is need of an update. A simple google search reveals 10 kids by 8 women. I just want to make sure the public gets their information correct. Please give him credit for the last 4 kids. [​IMG]
     
  11. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    Wow, JoeV, thats what I get for not checking his stats regularly. I remembered he had six a few years ago when he was fighting Tyson. I thought he might have learned his lesson by now.

    Apparently not. He's been busy in his old age.[​IMG]
     
  12. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

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    Holyfield was a sought after guest on the Trinity Broadcast Network and other Christian programs. Between Amens and Praise de Lords,he spoke of his youth foundation and of the need for black role models and responsible fathers in the inner-cities. At the same time he was unfaithful to his wife,knocking up bimbo's left and right. He's stilla respected leader and role model. What a joke.
     
  13. Alpha Male

    Alpha Male Mentor

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    JD074,





    Vlad was definetly the more atheltic of the two. He danced and moved and threw more punches. Foreman said he looked and moved like Ali. If that isn't a compliment about athletic ability then I don't know what is. Edited by: Alpha Male
     
  14. JD074

    JD074 Master

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    I agree. I didn't mean to imply that he was unathletic and Peter was. I did say that he didn't use "overwhelming athleticism," which I didn't mean as an insult. He was using the other attributes I mentioned, along with his athleticism, to thoroughly dominate Peter for 95% of the fight.

    Having said that, I do believe there is a perception that the Klitschkos are slow and unathletic. That's at least part of the answer to White Shogun's question: people consider them to be slow, stiff white guys who can only compete because of a weak heavyweight division. Also they're from another country, which doesn't help with their popularity.

    I couldn't care less, of course. I love 'em.
     
  15. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    How bad does it make the rest of the heavyweight division seem if its dominated by 'slow, stiff, white guys?' [​IMG] Doesn't say much for all the other fighters out there, does it? And many of them are, or were, at least, considered boxing's heavyweight saviors. [​IMG]
     
  16. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    I think it is doubly irritating to the haters of powerful white men that the K2 win not only with power, but with speed and footwork, the quintessential traits in which black boxers are supposed to dominate white fighters.

    If the K2 won by having strong chins and throwing bombs, I doubt that they would be hated as they are. But because these "slow lumbering white men" have FAST, powerful jabs and good defensive skills outside of rock-hard chins, it annoys the hell out of caste system supporters.
     
  17. White_Savage

    White_Savage Mentor

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    Doggone right.

    Then there's Fitzsimmons, Dempsey, Tunney, that new MW Kessler who many label the world's fastest boxer.

    There goes Entine's theory of all good White boxers being "powerful plodding sluggers" right down the drain.

    In a related note, let's take the stereotype at face value for a moment: So why do people who are "cute" in the ring get the nod for "machismo" as opposed to the guy with an iron head and a pair of sledgehammer hands? I'm just saying... [​IMG]
     
  18. JD074

    JD074 Master

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    Good point. Boxing fans like brawls a la Ward/ Gatti. But we should mention that Vitali took some serious shots from Lewis and Sanders (regardless of whether they were in shape or not, they still hit hard) and didn't go down. Unfortunately his skin didn't hold up against Lewis, but he can take a punch, no doubt about it.
     

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