The Lockout

bigunreal

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This is just amazing. I can't believe the NHL players are deluded
enough to allow the season to be cancelled. Do they actually think
they'll get any more money next season? IF there is a next season, or
any more seasons? Obviously, the NHL owners are in sad financial shape,
or they wouldn't take the drastic step of cancelling the whole season.
How can the players not understand this? How greedy can they be? Do
they honestly think they could make a living doing anything else, for
anywhere near the kind of money they could still make, if they'd just
report and try to work things out?



I was hoping they'd play a limited regular season, and then an exciting
playoffs with every team making it. Guess that was too much to hope
for.
 
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There are published reports today that Gretzky and Lemieux are working behind the scenes to get the NHLPA back to the bargaining table. Lots of luck!

The $42.5 million cap offered by the owners was more than fair. The players that didn't go overseas to play this year are forfeiting their million dollar salaries, and may again next year. The owners are in the position of power now, the players will have to crawl back with their tails between their legs when the replacement players begin to be signed in September. The only alternative to eventual capitulation by the players is to try to destroy the league altogether.
 

okra63

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Hockey is not the greatest sport in the world, but it is ashame it doesn't get the media attention it should have since they cancelled the season. I don't think necesarily it is a race deal, but it very well could be considering the number of blacks who are involved in the news media.


Personally, I hate hockey, because it is too ruff. It's about like watching basketball, all they do is skate up and down the ice. Only if there is a fight does it get interesting.
 

sunshine

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If they don't get back on the ice this season after fans have been thrown around like a ragdoll the past several days then I don't know what. The good news is there is still a chance. Latest rumblings point to a return. But with clown Bettman--the absolute worst commish I have seen and that includes Bud friggen Selig--controlling the strings anything bad could happen. Lets hope for the best. We NEED hockey. Otherwise the media will devote full time coverage to 12 year old basketball "phenoms'.
 

JD074

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Hockey is not the greatest sport in the world, but it is ashame
it doesn't get the media attention it should have since they
cancelled the season. I don't think necesarily it is a race deal,
but it very well could be considering the number of blacks who
are involved in the news media.


It doesn't matter how many blacks there are in the media.
White people in the media worship black athletes like
Lebron James and Michael Vick, and don't like hockey because
it's too white (except for Jarome Iginla, they like him.) If hockey
was 80 or 90% black, the media would love it.

White America is its own worst enemy. We have the power to
give white players what they deserve, but we refuse to do so. Edited by: JD074
 

sunshine

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Looks like season is called off for good barring a miracle. Funny the media is very pro owners. These owners could lose money on their hockey teams( and arguably only a handful lost some money recently)from now until eternity and still be in good shape overall. In otherwords they don't depend on it. Heck it is a hobby horse for these guys. Has anyone spent money more poorly than the Rangers. I can assure you the Rangers brass is making plenty of money.As for the players some will be hurting. Many are young with families. And who can save money these days with the Bush economy? One other point. The owners are not budging. And they assume that hockey will always be a poor revenue source without considering for one moment that the revenues could and should increase with better leadership from the top,ie dump Bettman and kick him in the rear on the way out. Hard to tell how damaging this cancellation will turn out but anyway you slice it not good news for the future of hockey in the USA. Very pathetic day in sports.
smiley18.gif
 

Don Wassall

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The Hockey News has Jarome Iginla on the front cover this week and has declared him to be "Hockey's Number One Ambassador."


And to think there might be some hockey fans foolish enough to think that that honor belongs to Wayne Gretzky. Or Mario Lemieux. Or to such still-active all-time greats as Steve Yzerman, Ron Francis, Mark Messier, Joe Sakic and Martin Brodeur.


That's one advantage of the lockout -- I won't miss much of what little media coverage the sport receives.Edited by: Don Wassall
 
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The Iginla interview with The Hockey News has been reprinted by ESPN in its hockey section. I can't remember the last time I read an in-depth interview with a white hockey player, but Iginla gets one even during the media blackout of the sport.
 

Realgeorge

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And yes, sports fans, Mr. Iginla is GRUESOMELY overrated. Last year's Calgary clutch-and-grab jamboree was typical of the past ten years of dead-puck hockey. And Jarome is a decent forward, but superstar material only in the minds of sportscasters
 

Don Wassall

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The NHLPA is having a membership meeting tomorrow and Tuesday. If they have any collective common sense at all, they ought to closely consider the remarks made by Mario Lemieux, a man of few words who probably timed these for just that purpose, and set about getting a CBA done asap:


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05058/463604.stm
 

Realgeorge

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Excellent Post Don


Even the staunchly anti-NHL Yahoo! Sports printed an excerpt of Lemieux's interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.


Gretzky I'm not too sure about, but Mario Lemieux truly is God of the NHL, by example on and off ice. If the players heed him not, they deserve a debacle. I have low hopes, based on the brain-dead behavior of NHLPA players during the past three years of anticipation of the dramatic CBAconfrontation


[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpdnRxM2dhBF9TAz k1ODYxODgzBHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-nhllockout-lemieux&prov=a p&type=lgns[/url]
 

Realgeorge

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Bravo! Bravissimo! Magnifique!


The offer by Bain LLC to buy the whole National Hockey League for3.5 thousand million dollarsis so excellent, so delicious in its irony. It almost left me speechless -- well, almost, I'm too gabby and there's a lesson here.


Gary the Maggot what commissioners the NHL has obtained, for practically nothing, a free authentic market evaluation of the NHL. The Market has spoken! The players and union say NHL = $4.9 billions. A huge, undoubtedly NewWorldOrder investment firm in an opportunistic mood has floated a price quote -- and that quote is dramatically lower than the value screamed by the striking players and their idiot union boss.


But even more delicious -- this event disses the players and union, but ALSO exquisitely insults the owners of the 30 franchises, and indirectly, their commissioner as well. Essentially the offer says Number 1) The NHL is miserably managed and administered, and we can offer a professional alternative, and Number 2) It's grossly overvalued and we would be happy to pay MARKET VALUE salaries to its 700 players.


Gosh, there's even a third ironic sumptuous dessert. The swine maggots of the sports media business, you know, those folks who hate white hockey and write articles like "The NHL is dead, who cares" have also been identified as pig-headed and wrong. Bain LLC clearly sees the NHL as an EXCELLENT investment that can be bought now at a bargain-basement price and, if efficiently managed, expanded into a magnificent money-making machine. And by gosh it can be done. If Bain or a similar beast were to buy the NHL, and then cater extravagantly to its high-powered, white, male, affluent, energetic, middle-class supporters, it would become most mucho profitable.


Oh but on the other hand ... if Bain were to buy the struggling NHL and put it through the rollers of diversity, polit correctness, affirm action, feminism etc etc, then the league could be completely destroyed in just a few short years, leaving Canada to pick up the pieces.


I wonder which angle Bain LLC intended to subtend.


In any event, Gary the Eel Bettman just had a very nice little intermezzo in the struggle between management and players. Perhaps a good pal at Bain made this pitch on behalf of his buddy Gary. If the Bain offer were harped on properly, Bettman and the owners have the confirmation they've always been looking for: verification of their valuation of the NHL, coming in MUCH less that $5 billion as the NHLPA contends. If I were the eel, I declare the value of the league as Bain plus twenty percent (opportunist's natural devaluation of asset). Lessee, lessee, 3.5 bils plus 0.2 times 3.5 ... ah yes, the value of the NHL is exactly 4.2 thousand million US dollars. Divide that by 30 franchises, and we have 140 million each. Damn, a roster of 25 players ought to live quite well on the proceeds.


Note to Ted Leonsis, owner Washington Capitals: Sell! Sell! Sell!
 

Realgeorge

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Some owners huff out their chests and snort "By gosh it's no sale!" while others aren't quite so uninterested in the Bain LLC offer to buy the NHL. Trust me, fellow Nationalists, this is a significant kick in the balls to a bunch of arrogant franchise owners.


The players have no opinion. That's because they are dumber than a box of rocks.


[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpdDcyMnNwBF9TAz k1ODYxODgzBHNlYwN0bQ--?slug=knight-nosalewingstellnhlsuitors &prov=knight&type=lgns [/url]
 

Realgeorge

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<DIV ="w460 p1">
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">MSNBC Sport wonk sez one-third NHLPA players will cross picket line
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">************************************
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">
<DIV =lineStory>Don't expect players to stay united for long
<DIV =deckStory>If an impasse is declared, at least one-third will cross over and play
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">ASK THE NHL EXPERT
<DIV =textMedBlackBold style="PADDING-TOP: 10px">By Kevin Dupont
<DIV =textMedBlack>NBCSports.com contributor
<DIV =textTimestamp>Updated: 2:09 a.m. ET March 6, 2005
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">Our NHL Expert, Hockey of Hall of Fame honoree Kevin Dupont of the Boston Globe, is here to answer your questions.
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">Q: I know it's a bit hard to guess without knowing the details of the system imposed by the owners, but if the NHL uses replacement players this fall, how many players would cross over?
 Ron Young from Landover, Md.
A: Frankly, Ron, even if I knew what conditions and pay the owners would post, estimating the number of "crossovers" would still be pure speculation.
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">But, hey, you asked. And the answer is: far more than the Players' Association would like to believe.
<DIV =textStoryTag style="PADDING-TOP: 15px">Generally, I think life breaks down into three sizes  small, medium and large. Ergo, I'm willing to bet at least one-third of the rank-and-file, about 250, would have crossed over this spring if the league had successfully imposed contract conditions. Now, add another six months to the waiting game, leading up to October 2005, and I'm willing to bet at least half of the "mediums" would be eager to cross the line.
If I'm correct  and again, this is ALL guess work  that would have some 350 players crossing the line. If so, it's over for the NHLPA as we know it. With half the workers across, others quickly will follow, to say nothing of the free agents around the world who'll come a runnin'.' Goodbye, union. Just imagine the lower-skilled guys in Europe, kicked to the curb this season by the displaced NHLers, racing to airports in Prague and Helsinki and Stockholm for their ticket to the big time in North America. They won't hesitate, not after watching bread and milk get shoved off their table by the big-foots from across the Atlantic. Let's also not forget that there are some minor-league players on this side of the Atlantic who also lost work in the U.S. and Canada when the locked out NHLers gave them the steel-toed boot.Overall, Ron, it would not be pretty. If I'm correct, there would be 500-600 players suited and ready to go, in very short order. Yes, there would be some NHLPA hard-liners, right to the bitter end, and it indeed would be a bitter ending.
When the NHL's board of governors met en masse at the start of March, soon after the 2004-'05 season was whistled dead for a second time, one of the topics focused on was impasse/replacement players. But it remains only that: a talking point, fraught with anxiety for both owners and players. Despite what you may read in the weeks and months ahead  if the two sides remain unable to hash out a new collective bargaining agreement  there is no one on either side of the center-ice red line who knows if courts and government agencies in both the U.S. and Canada would allow the league to start up without coming to terms with the union.
But only fools say never. Remember, it was the union that said "never"  a million times over  to the idea of accepting a salary cap, only to give up that sacred cow in February. As the weeks pass by now, the players will say "never" again when asked about the prospects of 1) the league successfully imposing work conditions and 2) whether they would ever cross the line and perform non-union work.
Question is, have they learned anything from their lost season in Neverland?
<DIV =w649>
 

okra63

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Guys, I hate to be mean, but hockey stinks. Man, it is just too ruff of a sport. Human bodies flying around like that. The only thing exciting is the posibility of fights.
 

Realgeorge

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USA TODAY Ted Montgomery speaks mostly as I do, that the Players and their Union are toast, and should shut up and get back to work


NHLPA needs to cut its losses, get back on ice
<DIV =intro-copy>The game is over. The players have lost. No amount of posturing or hand-wringing on the part of NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow and his minions will resonate any longer with the league, the fans or the countless people who have temporarily forsaken their livelihoods in the service of the players' greed. Those days have come and gone.
Mark my words, the NHLPA passed on the best offer they'll ever receive in this negotiation. They will eventually settle for a salary cap and they'll be forced to live with it for many years. And many of the players are cool with that. The players simply aren't holding any cards. The NHL is no longer beholden to the NHL players we know and love, because there is no contract. The league can now do whatever it wants. If no new collective bargaining agreement is reached, nothing at all is preventing the league from using replacement players next season. And believe me, next season will start on time, with or without the NHLPA on board.
Despite what Goodenow and some of the higher profile players would tell you, there is significant angst and unrest among the middle and lower tiers of NHL players, especially among those players currently plying their craft in the minor leagues. Many have spoken off the record of their desire for a union vote on a salary cap. Most have said they would support a cap to get back on the ice. And most believe that a majority of their fellow players would also accept a cap. Those minor leaguers who are just a hair's breadth away from making it to the show are especially anxious to get this thing resolved, once and for all. Otherwise, they reason, they may miss their chance. Of course, those players have no power among the NHLPA elite. But they are illustrative of a ground swell of support to get a deal done, and sometimes a surging tide coming from the nether deeps of the ocean can influence how the waves make landfall.
This is not to suggest that the owners aren't at fault; of course they are. Their greed and their blind devotion to Gary Bettman begs reason. This is a bed they made; they'll have to sleep in it eventually. But they hold serve. They know the players have been backed into a corner, and this has steeled their resolve to institute a salary cap. A hard cap. And they'll eventually get it.In a way, it's surprising that the owners haven't bitten on the offer by GamePlan LLC and Bain Capital to buy the NHL for a figure in excess of $3 billion. The rhetoric that we've heard over the past year from the owners seemed to suggest that many were chomping at the bit to get out, to cut their losses while they still had a dollar or two in their checkbooks. Now, they are thumbing their collective nose at the offer. Hmmm. If they were so anxious to get out from under the cumbersome payrolls that they contend have brought us to this point, why aren't they grabbing at this parachute?
The players' feeble threat to form their own league is laughable and is falling on the deaf ears of the owners and the fans. This collection of broken-toothed on-ice warriors could never make their own league work. They know how to play hockey, of course, but they haven't the first idea about how to run a business. And like it or not, hockey is a business. I know what's eventually going to happen: The players will agree to a salary cap, and they will get back on the ice in time for the 2005-06 season.
Oh sure, they'll get a minor concession or two from the league, but that will be it. They simply have too much to lose by sticking to their guns, and they've played this out as far as they can. They know that any further disruption of hockey as we know it will mean the end of whatever fan support they currently enjoy, and they'll trudge back to the rinks, bowed but not completely broken. And the game will go on. Let's hope this scenario plays out sooner rather than later. All of us who love the NHL need the players to acknowledge that they are exceedingly well-paid to play a game that gives so much pleasure to so many. And eventually, they'll come to terms with this reality.
 

Bear-Arms

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I miss this sport so much
smiley19.gif




They should bring back the Whalers and get rid of the Mighty Ducks...
 

Realgeorge

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Hello Bear-Arms! I feeeel your pain! Let's indeed bring back the Whalers and quack the Mighty Ducks! Fly in the Winnipeg Jets and can the Coyotes! Shine on the Minnesota North Stars and dump Dallas ...


Memo to all hockey fans: NHL players are dumber than dirt


Memo to NHL hockey players: You are dumb as a box of rocks! Attached is latest Yahoo-sports article about frustrated players. What are you waiting for guys?! Schidt-can your idiot Union Boss and sign the CBA. Get back to work now while you still can


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NHL | NHL set to resume talks after complaint filed</TD></TR>
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<TD>By Tim Panaccio, Inquirer Staff Writer



The National Hockey League and the NHL Players' Association will return to the bargaining table today in Toronto.





Technically, the stakes have been raised. Two weeks ago, the league filed its first formal challenge to the lockout with the National Labor Relations Board in the United States. This will be the first bargaining session since March 17.


The complaint alleges that the union plans to penalize members who act as replacement players - specifically, members who have collected $5,000 to $10,000 a month in union pay during the lockout. Those members would have to reimburse the union for all money collected if they act as replacement players.





Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice president and chief legal counsel, has hinted that there could be more filings, pending the outcome of the new talks.





"The NLRB charge was not intended to send a message," Daly said yesterday. "It was intended to vindicate our legal rights and remove all illegal impediments to viable business options. We will continue to be vigilant in safeguarding our rights."





The union met recently in Pebble Beach, Calif., amid speculation that its executive board has been working on a proposal that would carry a $42 million salary cap and $34 million minimum floor, along with a luxury tax at 50 cents on the dollar.





Ted Saskin, the union's senior director, said those figures, which have been circulated on the Internet, are fictitious.





"It's nothing close to accurate," Saskin said yesterday. "We are planning to have discussions [today]. We have not been preparing a proposal."





The feeling among players about ending the lockout appears to be one of apathy, since each session has ended with more questions than answers.





Typical was the Maple Leafs' Darcy Tucker, who spoke to the Toronto Star after a charity hockey game Saturday night.





"My attitude about the whole thing is, 'Wake me up when it's over,' " Tucker told the newspaper. "I'm tired of the whole thing."





The sense of frustration is evident even between the two parties trying to end the lockout.





"I've stopped trying to forecast what might or might not happen," Daly said. "Certainly, we're going to continue to try to make a deal with the union that's fair to both sides but, more importantly, is good for the sport. And the sooner that can happen, the better for everyone."





The Islanders' Michael Peca, who participated in the Toronto exhibition, thinks most union members will miss the 2005-06 season.





"I think that if the league starts with replacement players next year, there won't be a season for the guys in the union," Peca told reporters in Toronto. "I can't envision them starting with replacement players, failing in the process, and opening the doors to us. They have too much pride."





Contact staff writer Tim Panaccio at 215-854-2847 or tpanaccio@phillynews.com.</TD></TR></T></TABLE>
 

Bear-Arms

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Amateurs Want to Play for Stanley Cup

TORONTO - A group of amateur hockey players is taking the NHL to court to determine whether somebody can play for the Stanley Cup.

The 'Wednesday Nighters' filed a claim in Ontario Superior Court on Wednesday asking it to clarify the terms under which Canadian Governor-General Lord Stanley donated the Cup in 1892. The NHL season was canceled in February amid a labor dispute.

"The fact that the NHL has suspended its play this year doesn't mean that Canadians and others don't have the right to compete for the Stanley Cup," said Tim Gilbert, the groups' lawyer.

Gilbert said Lord Stanley's intention when he donated the Stanley Cup was to have teams compete for the trophy every year, and a labor dispute shouldn't prevent that from happening.

He hopes the court will force Stanley Cup trustees Brian O'Neill and Ian Morrison to find teams to compete for the Cup.

"We do not take this lightly," said Gard Shelley, an amateur hockey player in his mid-50s. "The Stanley Cup is the greatest sports trophy anywhere, ever. It is unique and a huge part of our culture and heritage."

The 'Wednesday Nighters' initially offered to play for it themselves â€â€￾ white jerseys against black â€â€￾ but eventually decided that competitive teams should play for it. They don't even use goalies in their league.

"This did start off as an amusing idea after Wednesday night hockey one night," amateur David Burt said. "I'm frustrated as most hockey fans are that the NHL and the NHLPA lost the season. I don't know which side of that issue I'm on. I'm just frustrated with the fact that there is no hockey being played. I don't think that's what Lord Stanley intended. I think he had a higher purpose for his donation."

Current Canadian Governor-General Adrienne Clarkson suggested in February that if the NHL won't award the Stanley Cup this year, then it should be the top prize in women's hockey.

O'Neill declined to comment Wednesday but said the claims would be contested.

In February, O'Neill said there was no legal way the trophy could be awarded for another competition under an agreement with the NHL. He said it would only be possible if the NHL decided it didn't want the Stanley Cup anymore, or if the league went out of business.

The 'Wednesday Nighters' application is scheduled to be heard by the court July 18 â€â€￾ well after the Stanley Cup is usually awarded â€â€￾ but Gilbert hopes to have the date moved up to sometime in May.

This could be just the second time the Stanley Cup isn't awarded. The last was 1919, when a flu epidemic forced the finals to be called off.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=565&ncid=136 0&e=2&u=/ap/20050414/ap_on_sp_ho_ne/hko_canada_stanley_cup
 

Don Wassall

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I mentioned early on in the lockout the unknown factor of how many European and Russian players will even return to the NHL after the lockout. There's an interesting article today in The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette by Dave Molinari about Russian Aleksey Morozov's desire to play again for the Penguins after spending this past season in the Russian Super League. Morozov wants to come back to the NHL, but here's what is ominous in the article for NHL fans:


"The numbers in Morozov's [Super League]contract are as murky as his personal stats -- salary disclosure remains an alien concept in the Super League -- but with many NHL payrolls likely to decline when the new CBA is in place and the Euro gaining strength against the U.S. dollar, Grossman said some Russian teams "absolutely" can hand out contracts rivaling those in the NHL."


I'm sure the same is true of European teams as well. I can't see many North Americans staying overseas if/when the NHL starts up again, but the Euro-Russian influx into the NHL may already be well on the way to a permanent about-face.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05130/501842.stm
 

Don Wassall

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I really miss the Stanley Cup playoffs. During the regular season I usually only watch games involving the hometown Penguins, but once the playoffs begin I really enjoy each series. To win a team has to win four best of seven series and 16 games, with each game usually hard-fought and ultra-physical. The NBA playoffs have their enjoyable aspects but are nowhere neara sufficient substitute for the NHL.
 
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