Scientist says Africans less intelligent

Discussion in 'Happy Hour' started by highschoolcoach, Oct 17, 2007.

  1. highschoolcoach

    highschoolcoach Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    Illinois
    Celebrated scientist attacked for race comments: "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really"
    By Cahal Milmo
    Published: 17 October 2007
    One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion.

    James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London.

    The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

    The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission, successor to the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was studying Dr Watson's remarks " in full". Dr Watson told The Sunday Times that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really". He said there was a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true".

    His views are also reflected in a book published next week, in which he writes: "There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."

    The furore echoes the controversy created in the 1990s by The Bell Curve, a book co-authored by the American political scientist Charles Murray, which suggested differences in IQ were genetic and discussed the implications of a racial divide in intelligence. The work was heavily criticised across the world, in particular by leading scientists who described it as a work of " scientific racism".

    Dr Watson arrives in Britain today for a speaking tour to publicise his latest book, Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science. Among his first engagements is a speech to an audience at the Science Museum organised by the Dana Centre, which held a discussion last night on the history of scientific racism.

    Critics of Dr Watson said there should be a robust response to his views across the spheres of politics and science. Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, said: "It is sad to see a scientist of such achievement making such baseless, unscientific and extremely offensive comments. I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson's personal prejudices.

    "These comments serve as a reminder of the attitudes which can still exists at the highest professional levels."

    The American scientist earned a place in the history of great scientific breakthroughs of the 20th century when he worked at the University of Cambridge in the 1950s and 1960s and formed part of the team which discovered the structure of DNA. He shared the 1962 Nobel Prize for medicine with his British colleague Francis Crick and New Zealand-born Maurice Wilkins.
     
  2. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,815
    Location:
    Spain
    who are we to argue with a Nobel prize winner? [​IMG]
     
  3. Run Stuffing LB

    Run Stuffing LB Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2006
    Messages:
    538
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This is something every intelligent person knows, but none are allowed to say. Living in a multi-culti world means turning your brain off and parroting slogans. "Wes all equalzz!"
     
  4. reclaimsocal

    reclaimsocal Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    United States
    I love the guy who says the claim is unscientific.... As if one of the premier Genetic Scientists in Human history has no knowledge of how evolution affects intelligence.
     
  5. Angelcynn

    Angelcynn Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Outside North America
    The thing is it doesn't take a scientist to work that out! [​IMG]
     
  6. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,329
    Everyone on the planet KNOWS this is true, but we aren't supposed to acknowledge the truth.
     
  7. Tom Iron

    Tom Iron Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,597
    Location:
    New Jersey
    This'll stir the pot a bit. It'll be hard to attack a man like Dr. Watson. If these liberal jerks want to bring some idiotic charges against him, they'd look really bad. My guess is that they'll try to bury this with as little coverage as possible. This is not some moron like Don Imus here. This is a world class genius.

    Tom Iron...
     
  8. yanling

    yanling Guru

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    California
    Informing people that blacks are idiots is like going around informing people that the sun is hot and that girls like to gossip and go shopping.
     
  9. PitBull

    PitBull Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    448
    James Watson is a eugenicist--that means he advocates culling the "unfit"
    out the population--not just blacks, but "unfit" whites, asians, etc. He
    advocates genocide, in other words. He is highly evil, and I think people like
    him are odious and dangerous. I wouldn't run around cheering for him.

    Whether or not blacks are less intelligent than whites isn't the question
    here--it should be if blacks are given preferential treatment while not
    having to earn it.
     
  10. Iron

    Iron Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    161
    the truths getting out.this article and revelation from one of the worlds top scientists comes only a month after another article was written in the times and published on their website about African IQ which indisbutably achnowledged the differences although the article was abit rediculous ,written from a left wing perspective with the crux of the piece denigrating members of the far right like the BNP and other racial nationalists who according to the auther use these differences to espouse an odious ideology of racial supremicism when many themselves would'nt pass the IQ threshold [​IMG] totally rediculous and irrelevent.as usual their's nothing in the major American media outlets about these remarks that are making worldwide news.they just wont report anything that belies the lie of equality that dos'nt suit their globalist multi racial one people agenda [​IMG]
     
  11. Colonel_Reb

    Colonel_Reb Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    14,000
    Location:
    The Deep South
    Eye opening article to say the least. If it wasn't so deadgum sad, I would laugh at the way he is being treated by Keith Vaz. Even if you know and prove the truth of something related to race, you aren't allowed to say it in this PC, multi-cultural sesspool that used to be known as the land of the free. [​IMG]
     
  12. highschoolcoach

    highschoolcoach Guru

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    Illinois
    I agree, and think that the following statement is from the article is relevant to the topic:

    "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really"

    Being a person interested in fairness and merit, I am aware that blacks score worse than Caucasians and Asians on tests of intellectual ability, and are then given preferential treatment. They score lower on the ACT test and are then admitted to selective universities over higher-scoring Caucasians and Asians anyway. They score lower on civil service tests and are then given the job anyway. Are you aware of the practice of "race norming"? Basically, there are separate score lists for blacks and others because, if not, the blacks would not make the cut based upon test scores. Therefore, the top scoring black will be given a position even though his/her score may have been too low for consideration. I was, and still am, in favor of equal civil rights for blacks, but not preferential treatment. With regard to college admissions, job hiring and advancement, etc., if they did not earn it, they should not get it.
     
  13. Bear-Arms

    Bear-Arms Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,150
    Location:
    United States
    They won't be able to refute Dr Watson. They will either ignore him or attack him.
     
  14. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,329

    Prescientcomments. They are attacking him!


    http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hiTnxQI4Errj7nB1JqhN8cJO gajw
    <H1>Science group condemns Nobel laureate's 'racist' remarks</H1>
    4 hours ago


    WASHINGTON (AFP) â€â€￾ A leading scientific organization Thursday condemned as "racist" and "vicious" remarks by a Nobel Prize-winning US scientist who reportedly said black people are less intelligent than whites.


    The Washington-based Federation of American Scientists (FAS) said it was "outraged" by the remarks attributed to James Watson that appeared in Britain's Sunday Times Magazine at the weekend.


    "It is tragic that one of the icons of modern science has cast such dishonor on the profession," said FAS president Henry Kelly.


    "Dr. Watson chose to use his unique stature to promote personal prejudices that are racist, vicious and unsupported by science," he added, saying it was "a sad and revolting way to end a remarkable career."


    Watson won the Nobel prize for medicine in 1962 for his part in discovering the structure of DNA.


    The 79-year-old chancellor of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in New York state is in Britain to promote his new book "Avoid Boring People: Lessons From A Life In Science."


    Watson told the Sunday Times he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours -- whereas all the testing says not really."


    The British Museum in London revoked a invitation to Watson in the firestorm that followed the remarks, saying through a spokesman that his comments had "gone beyond the point of acceptable debate."
     
  15. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Messages:
    7,247
    Location:
    Michigan
    Showing that moral backbone that white people are so famous for he has completely recanted the remarks he made that were based on his lifetime of research. Friends we have little hope until this type of surrender changes.

    Watson is in Britain to promote his new book, "Avoid Boring People," and a publicist for his British publisher provided this statement Thursday to The Associated Press.

    "I am mortified about what has happened," Watson said. "More importantly, I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said.

    "I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways they have. To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly. That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief."
     
  16. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,329

    Jaxvid, when I read the quotes you posted, I was sure you were writing a sarcastic piece. To my dismay, I discovered the link and the story.I am absolutely amazed at the cowardice exhibited by white people in so many ways. The pressure from the likes of Stephen Gould and his fellows is always present and unrelenting, but still it is so disheartening.


    (Snip)


    There is wide agreement among researchers on intelligence that genetic inheritance influences mental acuity, but there is also wide agreement that life experiences, even in the womb, exert a powerful influence on brain structure. Further, there is wide disagreement about what intelligence consists of and how â€â€￾ or even if â€â€￾ it can be measured in the abstract.


    For example, in his book "The Mismeasure of Man," the evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould dismissed "the I.Q. industry" as little more than an effort by men of European descent to maintain their prominence in the world.
     
  17. screamingeagle

    screamingeagle Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    Illinois
    Dr. Watson's quotes should be used to start a dialog. If he is wrong, I want to hear the counterargument.
    We know , of course, that will never happen.They will try to silence him in some way.
    Galileo had to recant, but we know he was right.
     
  18. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,329
    Whimpering, backtracking, snivelling, and apologizing never help the offender in today's Gulag Americano. After having butchered and grilledone of their sacred cows, they will grind you to powder, so better it is to stand tall, like a man, and tell them to go straight to HELL!!!!! [​IMG]


    http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-liwats1019,0 ,1054521.story?coll=ny_home_rail_headlines


    Amid an international uproar, Nobel Prize winner James Watson was suspended Thursday night by Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in the wake of published comments denigrating the intelligence of Africans and the equality of blacks.

    The suspension comes as the renowned geneticist was roundly denounced from London to Washington as a racist for telling the Times of London that he's "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours -- whereas all the testing says not really."

    While he hopes all people are equal, Watson also told the paper, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true."
     
  19. Alpha Male

    Alpha Male Mentor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    California
    If you read both articles, it is clear that he didn't mean to say that black people are inferior, only less intellgent; but he never retracts the comment regarding intelligence.Edited by: Alpha Male
     
  20. Alpha Male

    Alpha Male Mentor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    California
    It is far more likely that Watson was referring to a recent genetic research on the determinants of brain size and capability. The leading current research on this topic examines a genetic evolution that occurred in human beings about 6,000 years ago and is believed to be an important contributing factor in intelligence.

    Scientists who have researched this mutation have found evidence that it was geographically dispersed in Europe, Asia, and North Africa. Sub-saharan Africa was geographically isolated by comparison, so the mutation occured there at a much lower incidence. This is not simple IQ sampling on racial lines - it's statistical data examining for the presence of a precise genetic trait that scientists believe to be connected to the brain's size and function.

    This research appeared in one of the leading peer reviewed journals a year ago:

    "Ongoing adaptive evolution of ASPM, a brain size determinant in Homo sapiens. Science, 309:1720 (2005).
     
  21. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    7,671
    Location:
    Arkansas
    it is a blatant double standard that a man with a lifetime of experience/genius in his field comes to a valid scientific conclusion and must apologize for his findings because it points out a problem with blacks... while at the same time, any and all pro-black sentiment is broadcast far and wide as unrefutable "truth" despite mounds of evidence to the contrary.

    it makes me sick. and he shouldn't have apologized for anything, because the "shunning" of James Watson has only begun, as the media pundits and black apologists around the globe line up to show how "tolerant" *sarcasm meter explodes* their liberal views really are.

    they will do everything in their power to destroy a man who simply reported a truth that anyone who has ever dealt with blacks already knows.
     
  22. Bart

    Bart Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    4,329
    Jared Taylor's comments:


    http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/10/watson_recants. php


    James Watson has heedlessly done the cause of race realism great harm. When a few off-hand remarks to a journalist about racial differences in intelligence produced an outcry, he climbed down, apologized, and canceled his British tour. It is hard for the rest of us to defend a man who will not even defend himself.


    It is true there was great pressure on Dr. Watson to recant. The board of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory voted to "suspend his administrative responsibilities," whatever that means. The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) issued an odious statement saying Dr. Watson had promoted "personal prejudices that are racist, vicious and unsupported by science," adding that "he has failed us in the worst possible way." No doubt the FAS would have been less disappointed if Dr. Watson had committed murder or treason.


    And, of course, when the press sought "experts" to comment on Dr. Watson's remarks, they found only those they knew would pile on with more invective, and none of the respected scientists who would have said Dr. Watson was right. Again, we are treated to the tiresome spectacle of people who know nothing about the research on race and IQ saying that Dr. Watson's views are mere "racism."


    What is the next Arthur Jensen or Phil Rushton or Linda Gottfredson thinking today? "If they made one of the most famous names in science grovel, what will they do to me?" And so we will continue to live in a world of contemptible name-calling, in which everyone knows the truth but no one dares speak it.


    Dr. Watson should have followed the example of his great predecessor, William Shockley. Late in his career Shockley turned to race, IQ, and heritability, but unlike Dr. Watson, he took a firm, scientific stand and stuck to it. He used his immense scientific prestige to speak in every possible forum. He never backed down, he never apologized for telling the truth. Shockley won the Nobel Prize for inventing the transistor, but went to his grave believing the work he was doing in the genetics of intelligence was more important.


    Shockley had integrity and backbone. Based on his behavior so far, Dr. Watson does not.


    All the same, it is amusing to see the panic a few casual words have sewn in the scientific "establishment." Dr. Watson could have taken an unorthodox position on anything elseâ€â€￾cold fusion, vitamins, cancer treatmentâ€â€￾without provoking anything like this chorus of shrieking. It reminds me of the waning days of the Soviet Union, when every Russian knew Marxism was a fantastic hoaxâ€â€￾and therefore had to defend it all the more stupidly and slavishly.


    Dr. Watson was right to point out that the scientific noose is tightening on tattered old thinking. He predicts that the genes that code for intelligence will be found in 10 or 15 years, and the controversy will be over. Those who are screaming today will be shown to be the obscurantist bigots they are. But there will be no glory for men like Dr. Watson, who fled the field at the first sound of guns.
     
  23. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,285
    My bet is they will stop researching the genetic code for intelligence before it is found. If not, they certainly won't release or publish the research.
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The earth is flat, evil spirits cause disease and infection, the sun revolves around the earth...

    What gets me is the people who came out to say that Watson's comments are not supported by science, when in fact they are based on a mountain of evidence from psychology and biology. It's especially insulting because Watson has a NOBEL PRIZE in this exact field.

    In a few decades, geneticists may even figure out how to help black africans by raising their IQs. Then what are the race denying morons going to say? "No, don't help black africans get smarter"?
     
  25. screamingeagle

    screamingeagle Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    Illinois
    I note that the people that do not feel IQ is important are the loudest denouncing him.
    Playing devil's advocate I note the following:
    1) blacks have very creative excuses for coming in late or not working
    2) Blacks are very skillful in passing the buck and blaming others.
    3) black are very good at demanding reparations and other so called rights.
    These three activities require intellgence. See how easy it is to disprove Dr. Watson. His enemies are wimps.
     

Share This Page