Sam McGuffie

[Colonel_Reb]

We don't need a once every 25 year RB, whatever that is. What we need is to break down the Caste System. To do that, it won't take one or two awesome white athletes, it will take an increasingly powerful stream that will eventually break down the barriers and discrimination that is there.

 

[jaxvid]

You don't only get concussions when you're hit.. you also get them when you land. Crushing someone who weighs 185 does a lot more potential damage than crushing someone who weighs 235. The velocity in which they come to an immediate, abrupt stop by hitting the ground causes your brain to hit your skull as well..

How does a persons weight affect how they are "crushed"? It's the weight of who is crushing them that is important.

I've seen all of Michigan's games. He gets hit a lot harder, and more squarely than those other young, speedy backs do. I think the reason the rumor was out there that he wanted to move to slot receiver was because of losing confidence as result of the trememdous hits he received..

I saw all of Michigan's games too and he doesn't get hit harder and more squarely then those "other" speedy backs, all backs get hit hard once in a while. And I don't understand how someone loses confidence as a result of hard hits and how being a slot receiver (who has to go over the middle) would help with that.

I think you are NOT a McGuffie fan and not an opponant of the caste system as your first posts have indicated. Please prove me wrong.

 

[Guest]

How does a persons weight affect how they are "crushed"? It's the weight of who is crushing them that is important.

Are you suggesting it's just as easy to slam someone who's 235 pounds, and drive him into the ground, than someone who's 185? Levelling Mike Alstott was just as easy as levelling Warrick Dunn?

I saw all of Michigan's games too and he doesn't get hit harder and more squarely then those "other" speedy backs, all backs get hit hard once in a while. And I don't understand how someone loses confidence as a result of hard hits and how being a slot receiver (who has to go over the middle) would help with that.

Slot receivers get the tackled, maybe 5 of 6 times a game, maybe getting hit hard once, if that, while feature backs get hit 15 or 20 times a game, more than half of them hard, and usually by more than one person at a time.

It's not a coincidence that running backs have the shortest average career-span in the NFL.

I think you are NOT a McGuffie fan and not an opponant of the caste system as your first posts have indicated. Please prove me wrong.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna ignore the obvious, and/or simply agree with you to "prove" that I'm a McGuffie fan. The Big Ten in general, and Michigan in specific wasn't the best place for him. Judging by his latest actions, I'm sure he now realizes that too.

I think a lot of people got juiced up and overly confident from his Youtube video. They temporarily suspended rational thought, and forgot that it was high school. They felt college was going to be an inconvenience, Heisman awards were practically a guarantee, and that the NFL was a foregone conclusion. A poster on this board still says he's one of the, if not the "best running back in the Big Ten". I'm not gonna sit here and lie to myself just to prove that I'm a fan. He still has a lot to show me before I'll believe his high school wizardry will translate to college and potential pro success.

The head coach suggests that his multiple concussions raise cause for concern. Fred Jackson, others with intimate knowledge of the program, and plenty of the Wolverine faithful acknowledge he just may be too "slight" (the word that's always used) to withstand the punishment of the position.. so they began starting a bigger back. Being that there's already talk of Brandon starting next season, and Sam's potentially having to sit out a year if he transfers, his immediate prospects don't look very promising.Edited by: Osgood Fan

 

[SteveB]

I am not surprised that Sam wants to transfer closer to home. It happens many times when a kid goes to a school a long ways from home. His parents aren't able to come to see him play, his friends are at a school closer to home, holidays become a big travel hassle as well as an economic issue with the family. Many times when these kids move back closer to home, they excel in their new surroundings. We had two guys when I was at A&M that transferred from Purdue and UCLA to be closer to home. One became an all conference LB, the other an all american S.

I know for a fact that Sam's father pressured him to go to Michigan (his dad is from there) and his mom wanted him to go to Texas A&M, so he probably went to Michigan to please his dad. We'll see if now Sam chooses to transfer to a school that he wants.

He still has a redshirt, so he can take it next year while he sits out and still gets his full eligibility.Edited by: SteveB

 

[jaxvid]

Here is an earlier post from this thread concerning questions about Sam being "too small".

Riddlewire wrote:
Noel Devine is 3rd in rushing in the Big East conference.
Noel Devine weighs 170lbs.
Michael Smith is 2nd in rushing in the SEC.
Michael Smith weighs 173lbs.
Jacquizz Rogers leads the Pac10 in rushing.
Jacquizz Rogers weighs 180lbs.
I will never again listen to anyone who argues about weight requirements for college football tailbacks.

THANK YOU! Riddlewire, This is exactly what I meant, no one ever says some black RB is too small or needs to put on weight, it's always a white RB that has to fit some kind of weight profile. "Not big enough for the Big 10? Ha that's a laugh, what is there a weight requrement for the Big 10? Michael Shaw 6'0 185 lbs. does he need to put on weight to play in the Big 10?

Osgood_fan Since you have been on this site you have not posted one positive thing about white athletes, each of your posts has been critical. This site is here to boost white athletes not run them down with the typical slurs and insults of the mainstream sports media which you are reflecting. If your goal here is to be nothing but a critic then you don't belong here.

We have differences in agreement here but the concept is not to pick apart every white athletes weakness but to talk about their ability and potential and to defend them agaist the attacks that are often unfairly leveled at them.

 

[speedster]

Well,Jax and others have spoken very clearly now.There truly is no correct measurements for a white RB just incredible scrutiny from the usual suspects.

 

[SteveB]

Riddlewire wrote:
Noel Devine is 3rd in rushing in the Big East conference.
Noel Devine weighs 170lbs.
Michael Smith is 2nd in rushing in the SEC.
Michael Smith weighs 173lbs.
Jacquizz Rogers leads the Pac10 in rushing.
Jacquizz Rogers weighs 180lbs.
I will never again listen to anyone who argues about weight requirements for college football tailbacks.

Not to mention that all of the leading rushers for the SEC champion (except for Tebow) Florida Gators would be considered "too small" by Osgood.

1. Chris Rainey - 655 rushing yds, 5'-9", 185 lbs
2. Jeffrey Demps - 582 rushing yds, 5'-8", 176 lbs
3. Tim Tebow - 564 rushing yds, 6'-3", 240 lbs
4. Percy Harvin - 538 rushing yds, 5'-11", 195 lbs

And those guys run in the mighty SEC where everyone says that the teams have superior defenses.

 

[Guest]

Interesting. So here's my post from earlier today proclaiming that Sam's size and skillset would be better suited for the SEC and Pac-10.. a.k.a. the speed conferences:

I always thought his game was better suited for a speed conference like the SEC or Pac-10.. where smaller, shiftier Jeffery Demps/Jahvid Best/Jacquizz Rogers-type backs kick ass and flourish.</font>

Then jaxvid basically co-signed me (via Riddlewire) by mentioning not the Big Ten, but two of the same conferences I did that are conducive to small-back success:

Riddlewire wrote:

Michael Smith is 2nd in rushing in the SEC</font>.
Michael Smith weighs 173lbs.

Jacquizz Rogers leads the Pac10</font> in rushing.
Jacquizz Rogers weighs 180lbs.

Then SteveB brings up the rear by basically co-signing me again by mentioning one of the same conferences I did, while also glaringly omitting the Big Ten:

Not to mention that all of the leading rushers for the SEC</font> champion (except for Tebow) Florida Gators would be considered "too small" by Osgood.

1. Chris Rainey - 655 rushing yds, 5'-9", 185 lbs
2. Jeffrey Demps - 582 rushing yds, 5'-8", 176 lbs
3. Tim Tebow - 564 rushing yds, 6'-3", 240 lbs
4. Percy Harvin - 538 rushing yds, 5'-11", 195 lbs

You guys remind me of how Barack Obama was waxing poetic about how right John McCain was on various topics during their debates. I SPECIFICALLY mentioned that I didn't think the style of play in the BIG TEN would be optimal for small backs like Sam. By conveniently neglecting to mention small successful backs in the Big Ten, you're unintentionally strengthening my point (and Richard Rodriguez and Fred Jackson's, by the way). The very guys from the very conferences of your own examples exemplify speed, scrappiness, elusiveness, and excelling in space.. 4 characteristics that are best attributable to Sam, and least attributable to the top Big Ten backs. Like I said, the SEC and Pac-10 would have played beautifully to Sam's strengths. The Big Ten teams play, play to his weaknesses.

Remember when RichRod was hired, and Sam backtracked a little by adding the California to his recruiting mix? Jahvid Best, the young, 190 pound Cal Bear burner, just destroyed Stanford for 201 yards, and Washington for 311 yards. Are you honestly gonna tell me you wouldn't have rather seen Sam get a piece of that sizzling hot Pac-10 action rather than this cold, dreary, plodding, Midwest play?Edited by: Osgood Fan

 

[Gi-15]

I don't care if Osgood is a troll or not, he got a point here.

 

[Van_Slyke_CF]

Oh, I see Osgood's point: Sam McGuffie should transfer to a school in a conference that is superior to the Big 10, like the SEC, in order for Sam's superior skills to be fully appreciated.

Thanks for clearing up the mystery for us, Osgood.

By the way, I don't think anyone here "suspended rationale thought" in discussing Sam's last year in HS and his prospects for success in college. We could see very clearly his superior speed and athleticism when on the field against Texas HS competition, including dancing circles around one brother after the other. It must have bothered Osgood to watch Sam repeatedly speed away from dark defenders.

I posted a number of weeks ago my concerns about Sam's ability to play long-term as a feature back at 185 lbs.
Time will tell whether or not Sam is best suited for RB or not, or if a move to WR might be best down the road.

But then again, perhaps the problem with Sam this year at Michigan stemmed from the fact that Michigan sucked-plain and simple. As we saw with Brian Leonard and the Rams last season, the white RB becomes an all-too-convenient target for criticism when the team sucks.

I still think rushing for almost 500 yards in the Big Ten as a true freshman on a god-awful team is quite an accomplishment.

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Sam will transfer. I look forward to him performing for a better, more deserving team in 2010.

 

[SteveB]

Actually, I used Florida as an example because Meyer and Rodriguez run the exact SAME OFFENSE. If smaller backs with speed work within that offense (ie. Florida or Slaton and Devine when Rodriguez was at WVU), then McGuffie is the perfect back for Michigan. Do you think that Rodriguez is going to change to a typical Big 10 offense now? He was brought in to Michigan because of his success running a zone-read spread offense.Edited by: SteveB

 

[Guest]

Oh, I see Osgood's point: Sam McGuffie should transfer to a school in a conference that is superior to the Big 10, like the SEC, in order for Sam's superior skills to be fully appreciated.

Thanks for clearing up the mystery for us, Osgood.

I don't recall ever saying he should transfer.. but you're welcome. Glad I could help.

By the way, I don't think anyone here "suspended rationale thought" in discussing Sam's last year in HS and his prospects for success in college. We could see very clearly his superior speed and athleticism when on the field against Texas HS competition, including dancing circles around one brother after the other. It must have bothered Osgood to watch Sam repeatedly speed away from dark defenders.

Oh yea, my heart bleeds watching Sam run "circles" around defenders, be they light, dark, or polka dot. I cry myself to sleep every night at the very thought. I saw him outrun a zebra the other day, and almost drowned in my tears.

Sorry to disappoint you sport, but I couldn't give a rat's ass who runs around whom. That's the beauty of having a fulfilling life. I don't find it necessary live vicariously through strangers, and/or take some sort of pride in the accomplishment of others.

I posted a number of weeks ago my concerns about Sam's ability to play long-term as a feature back at 185 lbs. Time will tell whether or not Sam is best suited for RB or not, or if a move to WR might be best down the road.

So you're getting all emotional and pissy over my post despite agreeing with me? That's rather odd, no?

But then again, perhaps the problem with Sam his year at Michigan stemmed from the fact that Michigan sucked-plain and simple. As we saw with Brian Leonard and the Rams last season, the white RB becomes an all-too-convenient target for criticism when the team sucks.

I still think rushing for almost 500 yards in the Big Ten as a true freshman on a god-awful team is quite an accomplishment. I think it's a foregone conclusion that Sam will transfer. I look forward to him performing for a better, more deserving team in 2010.

I don't recall anyone ever blaming Sam for anything. You wouldn't happen to have any examples of his being this imaginary target of criticism for the team's underperformance, would you? No? I didn't think so.

Everyone knew the team was gonna suck this year. They installed a new system without the necessary personnel. Additionally, having concerns that Sam's being suited to play feature back in the Big Ten at 185 pounds isn't "criticism".. it's called an observation. There's a difference between the two. Unfortunately, however, this difference escapes you because of your unrelenting desire to play victim. You made this same EXACT observation, yet, when other people make it, thereby AGREEING WITH YOU, you call it "criticism".

That's kinda bizarre, don't you think? It must really suck to live in that perpetual haze of paranoia-fueled ignorance.Edited by: Osgood Fan

 

[PhillyBirds]

Great, now that your intellectual superiority is confirmed, anything else you would like to lecture us on? Coming here and being condescending towards posters based on their opinions is all fine and good, and we're all really glad that you called us on our delusions. Thanks! Whatever stimulates your anonymous internet ego.

Look, you made some points that are 100% correct. News flash: People tend to disagree on things. After it's been established that your viewpoints differ, it's not really necessary to repeatedly post a point-by-point dissection of a post you disagree with. Suck it the hell up.

Thanks for lifting the veil on our "paranoia-fueled ignorance", by the way. I'm sure the Nation of Islam Sportsblog would value your opinions more than we do.

Move on.

 

[Guest]

Lifting the veil on "our" paranoia-fueled ignorance? What, are you and Van_Slyke Siamese twins or something? I believe I said that to him, not you.

Anyway, when someone tries to get cutesy, and comes at me talking slick out of the side of their neck, they're gonna get it right back. On the flip side, if someone is civil with me, I'm as sweet as pie with them. That'll never change.

I don't think you actually read the posts that I was referring to. If you did, you obviously glossed over THEIR provocative, response-inducing condescension.Edited by: Osgood Fan

 

[PhillyBirds]

I don't think you actually read the posts that I was referring to. If you did, you obviously glossed over THEIR provocative, response-inducing condescension.

You're new to the boards. They aren't. When someone comes in here and evokes a response in the manner in which you have, people tend to get worked up.

And no, me and Van_Slyke are in no way attatched. People who post on the same boards generally agree on the subject matter at hand.

 

[Guest]

I don't think you actually read the posts that I was referring to. If you did, you obviously glossed over THEIR provocative, response-inducing condescension.

You're new to the boards. They aren't. When someone comes in here and evokes a response in the manner in which you have, people tend to get worked up.

And no, me and Van_Slyke are in no way attatched. People who post on the same boards generally agree on the subject matter at hand.

Okay, that's fair. I apologize if I rubbed people the wrong way.

I guess I'll just stay in the background for a while.

 

[jared]

I thought you raised some interesting points, Osgood Fan. You are right, the Big 10 generally features bigger backs (Shonn Greene, Beanie Wells, PJ Hill). Though I'd be curious to see how you respond to SteveB's last point: that Rich Rod's Michigan and Meyer's Florida run a very similar offense. Looking at Michigan's potential RB recruits for next year reveals a lot of guys the same size or smaller than McGuffie (just like WVU's Steve Slaton was):

Jeremy Gallon: 5'8" 165
Teric Jones: 5'8" 186
Fitzgerald Toussaint: 5'10" 185
Vincent Smith: 5'6" 159

The jury is still out on the Rich Rod experiment. You may be right, maybe it won't fly in the Big 10. I hope it doesn't. I can't stand that offensive scheme, personally. Edited by: jared

 

[P-NutLane]

Look, the FACT of the matter is that Sam should get 25 carries a game. Or at least 20, with 3 0r 4 receptions. This guy is the best athlete on the team, and I doubt I could deal with the hatred aimed at him if I was in his shoes. We all just want him to rise to the top so bad. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IF HE WERE BLACKhed get 25 carries a game without question!Look at a guy like Maurice Clarret, Ohio State a few years back.

 

[johnnyboy]

I don't think you actually read the posts that I was referring to. If you did, you obviously glossed over THEIR provocative, response-inducing condescension.

You're new to the boards. They aren't. When someone comes in here and evokes a response in the manner in which you have, people tend to get worked up.

And no, me and Van_Slyke are in no way attatched. People who post on the same boards generally agree on the subject matter at hand.

Okay, that's fair. I apologize if I rubbed people the wrong way.

I guess I'll just stay in the background for a while.

dude, you made great points. no need to lurk in the background. i always appreciate reading well written, well thought out posts. keep posting.

cheers.

 

[celticdb15]

yeah no need to tuck your tail in between your legs osgood. Prove your worth express your opinnions!!

 

[jaxvid]

YAWN another newbie that knows more then everyone else here. It seems that if small backs excel in the SEC and PAC-10 and if Big 10 teams regularly get their asses kicked by teams from those conferences then a possible key to success would be to get the same type of smaller fast backs instead of the same ol' big guys that don't have success out of conference.

Michigan in particular has had all kinds of different sized backs, Mike Hart the career leader was 5'9" and only got up to 200 pounds by the end of his career. Jamie Morris one of Michigans best was also a small guy. Sure they have had some big fellas now and then, the point is that good backs come in all sizes. There is no reason Sam can't be a quality Big 10 running back.

A competitor for the RB job at Michigan, Micheal Shaw is the same size, is osgood_fan expecting him to transfer to a conference more suited to his size? Is there an expectation that all small backs in the Big Ten should leave??? What other backs in the conference are the "wrong" size and should immediately transfer to the SEC????

 

[Electric Slide]

YAWN another newbie that knows more then everyone else here.QUOTE]

While I disagree with some stuff and agree with some of what osgood said, I think we should definitely encourage many new posters here. We're not going to make a huge difference in society and people's perceptions of we just have a few good 'ole boys sitting around the campfire discouraging anyone else who wants to join.

Ideally we should have plenty of veteran posters, and plenty of new ones. We need MORE posters like jaxvid and Col. Reb, and MORE posters like Osgood. Even if you find them flawed in some way, they might have some valuable things to add, and they might get some new people to this site.

We need lots of view points, we need old-timers and we need teenagers. We need current athletes, and we need those don't play but keep on top of stats and things like that. Heck we could even use a woman's point of view (they still wear jerseys, watch games, and spread beliefs as well).

I usually avoid any riffs that happen on these boards, but the more people we have here the better, as long as they aren't promoting the caste system.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

I think that is what we are still trying to figure out; if Osgoodfan is promoting the caste system. The litmus test would be if you think the exact status quo NFL racial demographics are fair then you do not believe in the caste system. So what is your opinion Osgood?

 

[jaxvid]

YAWN another newbie that knows more then everyone else here.QUOTE]

While I disagree with some stuff and agree with some of what osgood said, I think we should definitely encourage many new posters here. We're not going to make a huge difference in society and people's perceptions of we just have a few good 'ole boys sitting around the campfire discouraging anyone else who wants to join.

Of course I want more posters here. I read nearly every message and generally welcome each new member. However when I see a potential troll I feel it is proper to point that out. This fella has made the following points in his posts here that I can remember off the top of my head: 1) several white basketball players are having rotten starts to their seasons, 2) a white high school sprinters speed was incorrectly measured and he's really a no-talent. and 3) this thread where Sam McGuffie is the only small back in the Big Ten that should transfer elsewhere and that Sam can't take a hit and that Sam's running style opens him up for big hits which have hurt his confidence.

Osgood_fan is a clever troll, the kind who comes on site makes a few generally white supportive comments while doing everything he can to run white athletes down. Don't be duped.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Good post jaxvid, and I agree. No sense in feeding them or allowing them license to spout anti-white garbage. After all,this isTHEONLY pro-white sports site on the net. Osgood can goply his trade at one of the dozens of pro-black sports websites.