Redskins reach NFL goal

Discussion in 'Washington Redskins' started by Burts, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. Burts

    Burts Newbie

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    Last week I read several articles in the Washington Post that described in great detail how poorly their high-paid defense has performed this season.
    The article pointed out that the Skins' defense had given up the most plays of 40-plus yards in the NFL. It quoted players and coaches, all quick to point out how the entire defense was to blame.
    With all of this blame to go around, one might surmise that several changes in defensive personnel were imminent.
    Sunday's game vs. Dallas revealed the sum total of the changes -- one. The change? The lone white starter on the defense, safety Adam Archuleta, the leader in solo tackles on the team, btw, was benched in favor of "youngster" Troy Vincent.
    Let me say that I am not a fan of the Redskins, in fact, I revel in their every defeat, but I think this has finally put me in the position of abandoning the Negro Football League for good. Though I quit watching the games years ago, I remained somewhat interested due to fantasy football. This will be my final season of particpating even in that.
    I guess the powers that be are most happy, now that the Redskins have come around to the proper way to field a defense.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The reason Archuleta was benched is because he is poor in coverage. He actually came into camp as the highest paid safety in the league.
    He's only been moved because he's had a pretty sub par season. It's not about discrimination against him because he's white.

    Well, at least this time, it isn't.
     
  3. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    I've heard this poor in coverage line several times now. How do you become the league's highest paid safety if you are "poor in coverage." Why would any team do that? Personally, I think that line is all BS. The latest line the talking heads and radio personalities have told us to repeat as if we knew it for fact. Archuletta was their leading tackler. That suggests a completely different football problem - the teams inability to stop the run. That responsibilty is the line and line-backers, yet it is the safety that is benched. How bout that fact that the team has recorded a whole 12 sacks this year? What lineman is getting benched for that?
    Futuregohan and others, how many of you can say that you have actually watched the redskins games closely or game film and based on that have concluded that Archuletta is "poor in coverage"? Let's be careful about the media lines that we so often repeat as fact. It's just the latest media excuse to bench whitey. Edited by: Kaptain Poop
     
  4. bigunreal

    bigunreal Mentor

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    When was the last time ANY white DB was said to be a strong cover man? Since the Caste System really took off back in the 1980s, and white DBs started disappearing as fast as the dinosaurs, the few who have been allowed to play have their every move scrutinized in great detail by drunk white fans and jock-sniffing "journalists" alike. If non-cover specialists like the Cowboys' Roy Williams were put under the microscope like EVERY white DB is, he'd be run out of the league very quickly, because he is horrendous in coverage (who can forget last year's Monday night "miracle" win by the Redskins over the Cowboys, which featured two long bombs to Santana Moss, both of them completed because Williams is a joke in coverage). When a white DB, especially the nearly extinct white CB, appears in a game, the opposing team will throw at him as much as possible. On the other hand, long time DBs with a great "reputation," even if it's media-created, as in the case of Deion Sanders, will get "respect" from the other team and often not be thrown on at all. It's pretty easy to be a great DB if you don't have defend any passes, and in the case of "Prime Time," can be terrible against the run as well, yet still be considered "great" because the lame, wannabe comedians on ESPN say you are repeatedly.
    Archuleta is very simliar to many, many hard-hitting black safeties whose strength is providing run support. One of them plays next to him in the Redskins' defensive backfield. Of course, Sean Taylor will never be criticized for anything, because he is an ignorant black thug who belongs in prison, and you can't have any better credentials than that in the Caste System.
     
  5. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    Just because Archuleta is getting a raw deal doesn't mean Roy Williams isn't a good safety. If Williams isn't a good safety, who is?

    What about guys like Michael Boulware, Corey Chavous, Mike Brown (Chicago)? Is Troy Polamalu overrated? Williams' performance is on par with all those guys, or better.

    I'd like to see a stat for DB's on how many passing TD's have been scored against them in coverage.
     
  6. C Darwin

    C Darwin Mentor

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    Troy vincent is also the union player rep.for the NFL. This may play a part in Archuleta's benching.
     
  7. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    I just wanted to add that I'm open-minded about who should be considered a good strong safety, and why. I'd like someone to articulate their ideas about what skills and traits make a good safety and cite some examples of players who meet those criteria, so I'll have something objective to go by, a measuring stick, if you will.
     
  8. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Well WS, that's the problem with the DB position. There is no one single stat that you can point to that decides who is good and who is not. It's based mostly on objective opinion and that is bad news for whitey. That's why we have so few white DB's. Baseball is full of stats that are unargueable. In football most stats depend on the team's scheme. Particulary when talking about DBs and offensive lineman. Football does have some stats that are more concrete and far less objective. For example, punting and kicking stats - notice the racial make-up? QB ratings are somewhat concrete. Other than that it's just a lot of opinion floating out there.

    With that being said, I would think that leading your team in tackles as a safety should be a stat that would keep you off the bench. If you lead the league in interceptions (Brian Russell) you should be able to keep your job. However, caste system disciples will always find a small stat, a catchy rumor, innouendo, or falty reasoning to bench an outstanding white player. Don't fall for their slick lines.
     
  9. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    My experience is that white players are usually among the leading tacklers at their position and are also more consistent on a week to week basis. If Archuleta is leading the Redskins in tackles, that's pretty rare for a safety. The middle linebacker (or inside linebackers) is generally the leading tackler followed by the weakside LB. Many DBs go out of their way to avoid tackling; guys like Archuleta are valuable for that alone, but then again all white safeties are aggressive tacklers.


    Justin Smith leads the Bengals in tackles, which is astounding for a d-lineman. Kelly Gregg got an amazing amount of tackles each year as a nose tackle before the Ravens switched to a 4-3 this year, double the amount of Casey Hampton and other knee-jerk Pro Bowl picks. If you use IDPs in fantasy football, you rarely go wrong picking white players.


    Look at the puny tackle numbers put up each year by guys like Joey Porter and Lavar Arrington. All they have to do is make an "athletic" big play now and then to keep the media spin machine in full cycle.


    Because white defensive players are so rare in general, they are, as Bigunreal so aptly puts it, always scrutinized and criticized by drunk white fans trained to think that every white player other thanthe punter and field goal kickerisn't worthy of being out there.
     
  10. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    White Shogun wrote:
    that is a sensible request... and i agree completely. as WS and i have discussed on another thread, i feel that roy williams is a good safety and is very similar to Adam. however, the problem that i have with the whole deal around Arch is the double standard. Arch is a run-stuffing, physical presence whose talent shines brightest when he plays close to the line of scrimmage. the same is true with rw. but one guy gets routinely lambasted for his weaknesses and the other never does. there's the rub.

    Kaptain Poop wrote:
    i agree with this completely.
     
  11. backrow

    backrow Hall of Famer

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    i agree with that post completely. Adam has been making mistakes in pass coverages, but that's mostly because of Redskins scheme and Taylor's freelancing... some of that is his fault, sure... but to the point of getting benched in favor of someone on the verge of retirement?
    bullsh*t move by Redskins, Archuleta is thei best tackler and a very good and dynamic player.

    and yes, Vincent is a president of NFLPU... so that might be another thing, who knows...
     
  12. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    I agree that Arch is getting a raw deal. The fact that he is the one making all the tackles is evidence that the 'Skins D-line and linebackers aren't doing there job. In addition, the fact that he has to play so close to the line for run support is going to hamper his ability to get back in coverage, too, thus compounding the notion that he lacks 'coverage skills.'

    I agree that Archuleta has been benched despite having a skill set and abilities that exceeed many of his black counterparts at his position.

    But just because that's happening to Archuleta, it doesn't necessarily folow that all the black players at strong safety are worse than he is, or that they receive unfair praise. In a fair and objective world, Archuleta would be judged by the same criteria as guys like Roy Williams and Troy Polamalu, et al.

    Archuleta is a good DB.
    Roy Williams is a good DB.

    But Williams is the only one who gets credit for it. That's the sad thing.

    I am going to watch the Dallas game this weekend though, with special attention to Williams and his coverage. Some of the guys here have said he is a good DB, but lacks cover skills. I want to try and form a more honest opinion of Williams.
     
  13. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Adam is SS playing the FS position. His expertise is in run support and playing close to the line as well as blitzing. Williams scheme has him picking up slack in coverage because Taylor is also the same kind of DB but he gets to roam around, miss assignments and do whatever he wants putting more responsibility on Adam. Here is an exceprt from Draftdaddy on Adam


    "One more thing: If the Washington Redskins do cut ties with highly paid safety Adam Archuleta, who is being mis-used (needs to play closer to line more) in Washington and struggling a bit, don't be surprised if the former Arizona State star lands with the Cardinals, if Martz is hired. Members of the St. Louis media used to refer to him as "Adam Martz", as he was cleary a favorite of Mad Mike."


    Mike Martz needs to go to AZ.[​IMG]
     
  14. Matt_Bowen_Fan

    Matt_Bowen_Fan Guru

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    I'm a 'Skins fan, but Arch being benched has me pissed. I only ask for one, single, stinking white player on D. And they bench him. Keep in mind, they kept my boy Matt Bowen on the bench for a season then cut him after he got hurt in favor a smaller, slower, black player. This despite Bowen's first game in William's system, where he got a sack and a sack-fumble. He had a great five games before getting hurt, but never got to start after that.

    Arch has been playing free safety, because Carlos Rogers needs the help. Taylor has been up at the line, in the SS spot. I'm a big fan of Taylor, depsite his off the field troubles, but he's been close to the line because he bites on fakes a LOT. He also goes for showy tackles a lot, and sometimes misses. I feel he is a better cover man than Arch, and he's just as physical in run support. Arch is the victim of Springs having been out for half the season more than anything else; it meant he had to stay in coverage more, and he had to be deep to make TD saving tackles. I think another part of it too is that William's uses a lot of zone blitzes, and QBs are starting to find the zones where Arch was hanging back.
     
  15. Matt_Bowen_Fan

    Matt_Bowen_Fan Guru

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    I'm curious, but you really think Roy Williams is as good as Polomalu? As you said, there's no stat for DBs, but Polomalu seems Roy's equal in tackling and blitzing. But Polomalu is also an excellent cover man, which is William's most glaring weakness. I'm not knocking Roy, but I do think he falls a bit short of Polomalu. I won't hold the 'Skins win over Dallas in '05 against him, because bluntly, Santana Moss is that ridiculously fast, and every DB has been beaten at one point or another.
     
  16. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Ithink Polamalu and Adrian Wilson arethe two best safeties.
     
  17. Guest

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    I'm not saying that media excuses or whatever are nonexistant. However, i don't think that's the case here.

    Adam is a great safety, but he isn't great in coverage. He is best used when put up closer to the line. Tackling is what he's really good at. He's best used as sort of a 4th linebacker who can step back and cover a bit.

    What's happening is that he is being misused in Washington right now. They aren't really putting him up in the line like he normally is. He's being dropped back like a cover safety, which he isn't.

    This is why he's been benched.
     
  18. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    No, I personally don't think Williams is a better safety than Polamalu. There are those here who've commented before that even Polamalu was overrated. I wanted some opinions on other safeties in order to try and objectively rate Williams by comparison. Having said that, even though Polamalu may be a better safety, he isn't head and shoulders above Williams, either.

    Let's compare Polamalu and Williams:

    Polamalu has played in 56 games.
    Williams has played in 72 games.

    Polamalu has 273 tackles, or 4.8 tackles per game.
    Williams has 377 tackles, or 5.2 tackles per game.

    Polamalu has 65 assists, or 1.16 assists per game.
    Williams has 62 assists, or 0.86 assists per game.

    Polamalu has 6 sacks, or .107 sacks per game.
    Williams has 6.5 sacks, or .090 sacks per game.

    Polamalu has 10 INT, or .178 INT per game.
    Williams has 15 INT, or .208 INT per game.

    Polamalu has 1 TD.
    Williams has 3 TD.

    Polamalu has 26 passes defensed.
    Williams has 30 passes defensed.

    Polamalu has 4 forced fumbles, or 1 per 68 tackles.
    Williams has 9 forced fumbles, or 1 per 41 tackles.

    Williams averages more tackles, more INT, and more forced fumbles per game than Polamalu, while Polamalu beats Williams in assists and sacks. Both men defend passes at about the same rate.

    There are no stats for TD against or passes defensed vs completions against.

    Perhaps Williams has more tackles per game because he has to stop receivers after they make a catch against him. Or maybe he has more tackles than Polamalu because he has to play more run support in the Dallas D. Who knows? It would take a much more indepth analysis than I am capable of without reviewing mountains of film.

    At any rate, Williams statistically outperforms Polamalu in two areas I think are critical to safety play, namely tackles and INT.

    My earlier statment stands: Williams performance is on par with that of Troy Polamalu.
     
  19. Deacon

    Deacon Guru

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    Wash. Post

    As someone stated above Adam's strength is playeing near the line and now he may be able to do that.
     
  20. devans

    devans Mentor

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    I haven't seem him play this year. I saw him play a lot in St Louis Rams games and he could cover OK. He always picked up a few interceptions. I agree with Kaptain Poop, if he is the leading tackler on the team he must be trying (and succeeding) to help out others on defence and doing a lot of run support.
     
  21. gamecubedave101

    gamecubedave101 Newbie

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    Archuleta's treatment has me pissed too. He's not that bad. I remember last yearhe had a 80 yard INT for a TD against Steve McNair. That was awesome. Talking about safeties, what about Ed Reed? I think he's better than Polamalu and Williams.
     
  22. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    Reed was a dominant safety in '03 and especially '04, but was hurt most of last year and hasn't done a lot so far in '06. He's not getting a lot of tackles and his big plays have all but disappeared (other than the TD he scored last week by virtue of having the ball handed to him by McAllister as he was about to be tackled). I don't follow the Ravens closely enough to know if he's not completely healthy, has just tailed off, or if Baltimore's defensive scheme has changed his role. He used to roam all over the field like Polamalu does now.
     
  23. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    Sean Taylor had another terrible game but Arch remained on the sideline. i thought the loneliest guy on the team was supposed to be the kicker... but i'm guessing Adam is feeling pretty low on the totem pole right now. [​IMG]
     
  24. Bunnyman

    Bunnyman Guru

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    I live around DC so I listen to local sports talk radio. The one white guy on defense gets the blame. So they sit Archuleta and the defesne gets lit up like a Christmas tree against Philly. But no apologies to Adam. Now that Brunell is benched the Skins will start only 3 whites.

    Nice, huh?

    I'll be cheering very hard for Tampa on Sunday.
     
  25. Realgeorge

    Realgeorge Mentor

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    Howdy Burts! Amen to you! It's high time to abandon the black supremicist NFL

    It's the Daniel Snyder phenomenon of the Blackskins that has made me drop the NFL forever. So Good for you! Spend your Autumn weekends doing activites you like!
     

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