NFL Draft 2012

dwid

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I don't think you would find many members that put a ton of stock in the 40 yard dash. The 40/shuttle/3 cone drill are merely there to back up we see on film. Tyler Shoemaker performed well and all of his numbers prove that. Jeremy Ebert also had the production to back up his 4.38 40 yard dash, good shuttle/3 cone drill etc. You are the one discriminating against Whites if they fall short in one area, like Jeff Maehl coming up short in the vertical. 33 1/2 is not bad, its not great but his change of direction was off the charts, you know shuttle tests explosion as well? not just change of direction but explosion AND change od direction, same with 3 cone drill. His broad jump was over 10 at his pro day. I would say anything under 30 would be terrible. Mark Ingram only jumped 31 1/2 inches but had a 1.54 10 yard split.

dwf= drunk white fans, fans that root for black athletes, love them and usually hate on White ones. I would say it is similar to uncle tom but its not. Many of these guys think lowly of black people in general but as long as they run fast and do stuff on the football field then they are okay by them! They are usually fat, pathetic and spend a ton of money on the NFL and usually think little of White athletic accomplishments because of their own shortcomings in the area.

As far as RGIII, I would put a late first round grade, early 2nd round grade on him based on upside, he has the arm but he is a little thin. His pocket presence isn't there, Todd McShay looked at the top 7 qbs in terms of when they got pressured, not just sacks but hurries etc, he graded out 4th and 5th in many of the areas, I think his worst was the ratio of pressures equaling sacks and hits, he doesn't have the feel for the pocket. His anticipation of throwing receivers open isn't there yet. These things can be worked on, don't know if he will live up to it and since this is a throwing league thats why I would reach in the late 1st for him. His gpa and all of that doesn't show that he is bright, but he does seem to be willing to put work in. Some guys can never get a feel for the pocket. I see a guy that will be inconsistent and will have some highlight plays but never win the big one. Brandon Weeden should go higher but it 28 years old, turning 29. I would probably take Ryan Tannehill as well, he has some of the same problems but has only started for one year, flaws are a little easily correctable as far as mechanics because its not locked in there as much. His pocket presence a little better, shows more understanding of progressions , athletic, can withstand more hits as well which is why he might go number 8 overall. Gotta run again, bbl.
 
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spiritofspook

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Lets not forget that the raiders were also one of the worst drafting teams of the last decade. Them going for Jamarcus Russel was greatly a result of that. Also, Russel was more a head case/addict than anything on field. I dont know if he started more than 10 games in his career. He is still a bust but not of the same ilk as other highly picked QBs that didnt pan out over time(David Carr, Andre Ware, Rick Mirer, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, etc).

RG3 seems to have a much better character set than Russel, Vick, and possibly Cam. He is more in the Donovan McNabb "grin and bare it" build which is important for Black QBs. Talent wise I actually agree with Dwid in that he is probably a late 1st rounder, but he IS a QB and they are never drafted where they are supposed to. RG3 is boom or bust. In Cam I see a guy who has such a huge ego that he refuses not to be good at what he does (Jerry Rice, Micheal Jordan... not to say he will be that good, but same competitive mentality). RG3 is of a different breed. He reminds me of UFC champion John Jones, he seems focused but also seems completely aloof detached and unconcerned. He is clearly not the typical "aflete" or whatever label you guys use here, but that is not necessarily a good thing.


As for these lesser known guys like with good measurables like Ebert and Shoemaker. It may be correct that these guys are not getting a significant look being white guys from small schools, but even when I look at their highlight tapes i still see a lot of drag routes and screens in pass happy offenses. They dont jump off the page much. When watching many 1st round recievers you see them jump off of the page or their measurables/size is impactful. They may or may not get drafted, but they will get shots like many other players.
 

Freethinker

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As for these lesser known guys like with good measurables like Ebert and Shoemaker. It may be correct that these guys are not getting a significant look being white guys from small schools, but even when I look at their highlight tapes i still see a lot of drag routes and screens in pass happy offenses. They dont jump off the page much. When watching many 1st round recievers you see them jump off of the page or their measurables/size is impactful. They may or may not get drafted, but they will get shots like many other players.
They will not get a fair shot. Please read post #43 by Jimmy Chitwood in the linked thread. It is apples to apples. Would you still say Shoemaker is getting a fair shot?

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...black-corners/page3?highlight=tyler+shoemaker
 

spiritofspook

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They will not get a fair shot. Please read post #43 by Jimmy Chitwood in the linked thread. It is apples to apples. Would you still say Shoemaker is getting a fair shot?

http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...black-corners/page3?highlight=tyler+shoemaker


Hmm. Thats a tough one. Based soley of the numbers yeah its hard to see why he wouldnt have been at least invited.

But then i looked at the tape. Between him and Pettis maybe you have a slight point, but with young the athleticism on field isn't even close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ppty5sNTU

With Shoemaker its a bunch of slants and crosses with a few decent looking catches but nothing as spectacular as you see with Young

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZZZTwFylw

Young looks like Desean Jackson. Pettis looks better as well but not by as much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZZZTwFylw

Now these are simply highlight reels. They are not conclusive, but they give an indication (espcially considering that Shoemakers reel is so underwhelming) Lets also not ignore that Pettis and Young both started over Shoemaker for 2 years. Lets also not forget that Boise State plays 3-4 real teams a year. So that is not top comp. Lets also break down that stat line. Against real/semi real competition (Georgia, TCU, Arizona state) Shoemaker had minimal production (10 catches 127 yards all together, 2-23 against GA).

So it sound just about what its supposed to sound like for this guy. He should get a late look but at least in the case of Young, there is a very clear distinction.
 

whiteathlete33

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Hmm. Thats a tough one. Based soley of the numbers yeah its hard to see why he wouldnt have been at least invited.

But then i looked at the tape. Between him and Pettis maybe you have a slight point, but with young the athleticism on field isn't even close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ppty5sNTU

With Shoemaker its a bunch of slants and crosses with a few decent looking catches but nothing as spectacular as you see with Young

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZZZTwFylw

Young looks like Desean Jackson. Pettis looks better as well but not by as much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZZZTwFylw

Now these are simply highlight reels. They are not conclusive, but they give an indication (espcially considering that Shoemakers reel is so underwhelming) Lets also not ignore that Pettis and Young both started over Shoemaker for 2 years. Lets also not forget that Boise State plays 3-4 real teams a year. So that is not top comp. Lets also break down that stat line. Against real/semi real competition (Georgia, TCU, Arizona state) Shoemaker had minimal production (10 catches 127 yards all together, 2-23 against GA).

So it sound just about what its supposed to sound like for this guy. He should get a late look but at least in the case of Young, there is a very clear distinction.

You are full of crap man! You have been exposed by many on this site yet you continue your nonsense! I did a write up on black receiver busts. Literally half of black receivers taken in the first round of the past 10 drafts are huge busts! What kind of bang for their buck are owners getting. Here is that information. Now go back to Blackathlete.com or whatever, stop trolling here. I don't go on your pro black sites and attack you. http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/10614-Black-receiver-busts?highlight=black+receiver+busts


 

celticdb15

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Small school Safety\Lb Ian Wild tore it up at his recent pro day. He's another physical safety in the mold of Harrison Smith. No surprises here his only offer coming out of high school was from Army...

Q&A with former Mercyhurst safety/linebacker/lacrosse star Ian Wild, who ran the 40-yard dash in 4.56 seconds at his Pro Day.


Northwestern H-back Drake Dunsmore tore up the NFL Combine yet still is only given a 7th round grade from Todd McGay. Lard ass Dwayne Allen from Clemson runs a 4.89 40 and is projected to be a 2nd round pick!

In-depth N.F.L. Draft Profile for former Northwestern tight end/H-Back Drake Dunsmore, who really impressed scouts at the Combine.

The tight end impressed NFL scouts with his workout at Lucas Oil Stadium, finishing first among tight ends in the 3-cone drill (6.73 seconds), 20-yard shuttle (4.03 seconds) and clocking in at 4.64 in the 40-yd dash. He also excelled in position drills, running crisp routes and standing out amongst a crop of talented future NFL tight ends.

“He is versatile and catches the ball well. Like the (other Northwestern players), he’s a hard-working, competitive player and you appreciate how hard he plays the game. I gave him a seventh-round grade. He will have to contribute on special teams to pick.”
 
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Truthteller

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As for these lesser known guys like with good measurables like Ebert and Shoemaker. It may be correct that these guys are not getting a significant look being white guys from small schools, but even when I look at their highlight tapes i still see a lot of drag routes and screens in pass happy offenses. They dont jump off the page much. When watching many 1st round recievers you see them jump off of the page or their measurables/size is impactful.

Excellent insight genius. Since when are Northwestern (a member of the Big 10) and Boise State (Top 10 caliber BCS school) "small schools" in today's world of college football? Had you dubbed them "mid-majors" maybe I could agree for a split second, before saying what the F'...but "small schools"?

By the way, great insight. After all, you are black and "polite", so you have to be completely objective.


Just a reminder, here are Ebert's stats:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/381604/jeremy-ebert
 

spiritofspook

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You are full of crap man! You have been exposed by many on this site yet you continue your nonsense! I did a write up on black receiver busts. Literally half of black receivers taken in the first round of the past 10 drafts are huge busts! What kind of bang for their buck are owners getting. Here is that information. Now go back to Blackathlete.com or whatever, stop trolling here. I don't go on your pro black sites and attack you. http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/10614-Black-receiver-busts?highlight=black+receiver+busts




My presence here really seems to bother you...



Exactly how am i attacking you btw. Its an attack because I disagree? Are your ideals so fragile that the presence of someone who disagrees bothers you? Sadly your frustration hasnt made you any more logical. What does your thread prove exactly? Half most 1st round draft classes are busts. That is how the NFL works. Are you suggesting that IF white receivers were drafted in these spots they would not be busts? The draft is a crapshoot. Robert Gallery and Tony Manderich were two of the most "cant miss" prospects in the history of the draft. How did they pan out? The absence of logic and subjectivity on this site is astounding.

Are you even going to bother responding to what I said in the previous posts in looking at Shoemaker? Did you watch the films. Can you honestly say that Shoemakers tape is as impressive as Young's or Pettis's? Mostly, a few of you guys deflect, change the subject and and call me a troll. Or worse you throw out erroneous and superflous "research" that is supposed to prove... something when it hardly proves anything. Ive hardly learned anything from this site other than the sad state of delusion of some football fans. How do you ever expect your goals to gain traction if you cant manage to muster more than a name calling response to those who disagree with you?

I went and looked at a few sites like Walter football, NFL draft countdown, Draftek, etc. I cant find anything about Shoemaker. A few other white WRs are mentioned, but not much on Shoemaker.

Also to truthteller, My point was not to presume that Northwestern and Boise state were "small" schools, it was to point out that they were not top end programs/playing against top end competition. Boise is especially unspectacular in terms of their competition. Other guys mentioned on this site are often coming from smaller schools/lesser programs. My point was to say that the evaluation of these guys stats is smeared by that fact. However, someone did make the earlier valid point that these guys are often looked over as high school recruits which makes it difficult for them to break through the glass ceiling. Other than that point (which i have admitted several times) im still missing a convincing argument that there is some sort of purposeful and sinister plot to exclude white players from certain positions outside of history and experience telling them that white corners/recievers/running backs are a gamble.
 

Don Wassall

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Robert Gallery is still playing and starting. He hasn't had a Hall of Fame career but he's had a pretty good one; to group him with Manderich is way off the mark. In fact, a lot of your assertions are just plain off the mark.

Thanks for your participation here, but as the guidelines state, this is an opponent-free site.
 

whiteathlete33

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My presence here really seems to bother you...



Exactly how am i attacking you btw. Its an attack because I disagree? Are your ideals so fragile that the presence of someone who disagrees bothers you? Sadly your frustration hasnt made you any more logical. What does your thread prove exactly? Half most 1st round draft classes are busts. That is how the NFL works. Are you suggesting that IF white receivers were drafted in these spots they would not be busts? The draft is a crapshoot. Robert Gallery and Tony Manderich were two of the most "cant miss" prospects in the history of the draft. How did they pan out? The absence of logic and subjectivity on this site is astounding.

Are you even going to bother responding to what I said in the previous posts in looking at Shoemaker? Did you watch the films. Can you honestly say that Shoemakers tape is as impressive as Young's or Pettis's? Mostly, a few of you guys deflect, change the subject and and call me a troll. Or worse you throw out erroneous and superflous "research" that is supposed to prove... something when it hardly proves anything. Ive hardly learned anything from this site other than the sad state of delusion of some football fans. How do you ever expect your goals to gain traction if you cant manage to muster more than a name calling response to those who disagree with you?

I went and looked at a few sites like Walter football, NFL draft countdown, Draftek, etc. I cant find anything about Shoemaker. A few other white WRs are mentioned, but not much on Shoemaker.

Also to truthteller, My point was not to presume that Northwestern and Boise state were "small" schools, it was to point out that they were not top end programs/playing against top end competition. Boise is especially unspectacular in terms of their competition. Other guys mentioned on this site are often coming from smaller schools/lesser programs. My point was to say that the evaluation of these guys stats is smeared by that fact. However, someone did make the earlier valid point that these guys are often looked over as high school recruits which makes it difficult for them to break through the glass ceiling. Other than that point (which i have admitted several times) im still missing a convincing argument that there is some sort of purposeful and sinister plot to exclude white players from certain positions outside of history and experience telling them that white corners/recievers/running backs are a gamble.

Manderich was a bust but no way Gallery is a bust. He's nowhere near the star he was supposed to be but he's been decent and no one can deny that. My ideals are not fragile, it's the fact that you come back with nonsense and always change the subject. I'll say this again, how is Matt Jones a bust when he was only give a few seasons, never started until the last one, and would have had a 1,000 yard season if not for the suspension? He was learning a new position as well. Just because he was a fantastic natural athlete doesn't mean he would be a great receiver right off the bat. Like I said before, If he was black he'd still be in the league. Everyone knows that. The double standard exists. Name one white player whose been convicted of multiple felonies and is still in the league. The NFL is full of murderers(Ray Lewis) and all out thugs(Pac Man Jones). The bar is much higher for white players and they are shut out of the league for much, much less . Does every black first round receiver have a 1,000 yard a season? No, not even close. Crabtree has been very average yet he'll be a starter for 5 more seasons at the very least no matter what.

To answer your question yes the percentage of white receivers who bust is certainly lower than that of the black receivers.
 

dwid

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mostly slants and crosses, before it was all the White receivers ran were "screens and drag routes." The routes he ran are are what most of what wide receivers run in the offense and its what they asked him to run and he excelled. You want to throw most of the route tree in there and discredit it as well? He ran a variety of routes, more variety the typical college receiver because Boise has a complex offense.

What do you want? it all to be go and post routes? Offenses don't work like that, you can't get by running the same routes. Only Jordy Nelson and DeSean Jackson have gained 1k by mostly doing this, and Jackson will continue to decline if he is afraid to get hit, Nelson ran a variety of routes his first few years and isn't afraid to get hit, and even ran a more variety last year, just made killing on post routes, so its basically DeSean Jackson who is the only one who didn't run a variety of routes and gained 1k, and they broke his seasons down, he gets more yards from busted coverage than anyone in the league, he will become a gimmick decoy like Devery Henderson, run a few times a game to stretch the d.

Do you even know the difference between a drag route and the middle and deep crossing routes Shoemaker was running? (and no thats not all he ran), the shorter routes only continue to keep working like they did time after time if like Boise ran you have someone to run deep, you can do this by outmuscling someone or by speed. Last year Shoemaker was the deep threat and he used speed.

And before you go and discredit the receivers that run mostly underneath stuff "the screens and the drags", it works both ways, its a balancing act no different than saying a passing game needs a running game. Welker was the perfect compliment to Moss and helped him out, it worked both ways. Last year they actually switched up who the deep threat was, sometimes it was Gronkowski, sometimes it was Welker, but I guess since tight end is the more appropriate position for Whites you chose Rob as the "real threat" and Welker as the beneficiary. You can't have your tight end be the main deep threat.

As far as slot receivers, why discredit them? I see many of those routes no different than a runningback receiving an extended handoff, you really think teams can just pass way more than they run without balancing it out some way? the shorter routes do that, an extension of the running game, and in the old wco days they had the backs run these concepts (underneath receiving threats). Do you know how many receiving yards Roger Craig had? almost 5k, 4500 with San Fran on 500 + catches, one season with 1k receiving. Were they useless yards? he still had to catch the ball, make people miss, weave in and out of traffic. Marshall Faulk expanded on this role, were his receiving yards useless as well?

Bill Bellicheck was obsessed with Marshall, and probably where he got Welker's role from, he could take handoffs if they wanted, but I am guessing he came up with the idea, why motion the back out to the slot and only have him run screens etc, when you can just put a guy with the ability of a runningback permantly in the slot and throw receiver concepts in there as well? (versatility is key, he merged many concepts together) and still have a back line up as running/recieving threat. Before this slot recievers would run the same basic routes, usually to the sticks and get smashed by a linebacker or safety, and teams didn't always have 3 receiver sets for the majority of the game, now its a staple. Its an important role but I guess when White guys do it instead of black ones, its not as important?. Do you realize how Bellicheck defeated the Rams? he realized the offense ran through Marshall, keyed in on Marshall and defense was the main key for the Pats.

Now teams have to balance it out, Martz didn't make the in game adjustment. But I am sure you will find a way to discredit a deep threat who is White saying he is helped by the underneath stuff, and a White guy who runs the underneath stuff by saying he is helped by the deep threat, or in the case of Welker where everyone is White, like I said, you chose the more appropriate position for Whites, the tight end and gave him props. However, the best way for it to work and keep balanced is your deep threats need to be able to run some shorter routes and your underneath guys need to be able to run some deep routes, Welker is capable of both, Moss looked average running shorter routes but still did it, got lazy after a few seasons though.

The difference with Shoemaker is the underneath guys were not that special last year for Boise, just enough to make do with.

Its safe to say in the case of the Patriots that the offense runs primarily through Welker, at least since 2007, when he hurt his knee Woodhead took over some of the concepts from the runningback spot and lined up in the slot as well. Edelman filled in before but is more of an outside guy and struggled to average more 10 or more ypc in the same role.

Its a copycat league and plenty of teams try to run something similar to what Bill does, but no one has done what Welker has done. Bess has come the closest but still isn't as consistent, which is evident by his lack of 1k seasons. Some teams still use the back in this role with no true slot receiver that consistently catches the underneath stuff, the Eagles with LeSean McCoy with Avant in the older slot receiver role that simply asks to move the chains with little yac. The Bears with Matt Forte etc. or you can be like the Jets and be old school smash mouth football and just have more runs, or you can be like the Saints and have a mixture of guys doing it with no guy excelling in one area, although in 2011 Sproles was used as the underneath guy quite a bit they mixed it up and he didn't have a role like Welker (before it was Reggie used part time) 2011 Sproles had the role Woodhead should have when he is healthy. Even the backs used in this role haven't consistently put up as many seasons as Welker as underneath threats, many fluctuatations.I would say Marshall came the closest as an underneath threat, 5 seasons with 80+ catches, but only 1 1k season, Welker has had 5 80+ catch seasons, 4 are 110+ catches as well as 1100+ but of course more concepts of a wideout thrown in.

The reason you don't see it as much is because you need a guy that can do the things a back can do after the catch but also be able to do the things a receiver can do. We have many White players versatile enough for this. Not as many black ones. Takes talent. Recognize it, appreciate it. I call it the dirty work since they do work hard like both a back and a receiver but don't get the props of either position. Its just a shame we have many guys that aren't used to their fullest ability (look at Welker last year when they let him run more deeper routes, his best season yet) and many others pidgeonholed into the role when they would be better suited as a protoytpical number 1 or number 2. I would say out of blacks the only one that could have done what Welker did is Marshall Faulk and he is one of the most talented to play the game.


With the Shoemaker highlights, its all game footage. Young ran alot of the same routes with a ton of screens thrown in, stuff you bash White receivers for, half of the youtube footage on him, I can't tell what route he is running because of some weird angle, but Ive watched Boise for the past 4 years. He has some highlights against the same competiton , one post route against Wyoming and he is the next DeSean Jackson? I wonder where you got that idea, probably because at the beginning of the video it flashed "the next DeSean Jackson", subliminal messages must work easily on you, which is probably why you are so brainwashed in the first place. One go route against Brandon Hardin, and I don't really put that on Hardin because that ball was perfectly placed, Hardin was on him the entire time like glue, it wasn't athleticism that was the problem there, more of an awareness problem which can be fixed, he came close to knocking it out but he maintained possession while being pushed out of bounds. If Hardin was truly a not athletic enough to play corner in the league, then he wouldn't be able to stay with Titus Young on a go route, a guy that is now an NFL receiver.

The Shoemaker hl is much longer, more to dissect, maybe it doesn't stand off the page because its not flashy, as in fancy camera angles, because I don't have access to that. I wish I did, put some stupid rap song, cut the highlights down to 4 minutes, 1 min talking about how great the guy is flashing stats everywhere, then you just see the ball floating in the air and the receiver come down with it. However, I would still make it similar, the reason to make it like that is because people will say I am trying to hide something. You get to see it how it is. Its not coaches film but college cameras do see more of the field than NFL. I don't see any hard teams on Young's highlights except Oregon State, and that was one catch and a return. I already explained the go route against Hardin. The only other go route looked to be against an FCS team, maybe they were FBS. Just checked, Idaho? The only top team they really played that year was Virginia Tech, they limited his big plays but he ate them up with screens for 80 yards (apparently a bad thing that you can just write off that takes no talent whatsoever), only 2 other games with reception going lower NEW MEXICO STATE, UTAH STATE and UTAH. Only Utah and VTECH have somewhat tough defense out of all the teams they played in 2010. Btw, Moore rarely throws it into double coverage unless you have a mile of separation because of weak arm, Young benefited from having Pettis and vice versa to help maintain single coverage, not to mention Shoemaker was there as well.

Like I mentioned Shoemaker didn't have anyone great to do this, maybe the guys they have will develop into something special, because I remember a time when I thought Dane Sanzenbacher was nothing special back when Brian Hartline was playing, he developed nicely. Back to Shoemaker, he beat double teams quite a bit on tape but Moore checked down to someone with single coverage and most of his downfield passes have to be in the middle because its harder for him to reach the outside, obviously because it has to travel much farther, the exception were roll outs etc which is why all 3 of those guys had mostly deep passes on some type of route that called to be closer to the middle.


If you want to break it down by competition you can do that for any receiver. Who does Oklahoma St really play? Big 12 doesn't have any tough defenses. Nebraska used to be the toughest defense and the fell off the last year they were there, and they are big 10 now. Blackmon still had 4 games with under 10 ypc. Only 2 with it significantly higher, one was Louisiana Lafayette with 18, and the other was Stanford with 23 ypc, who don't have corners who can cover worth a crap because they refuse to recruit Whites at the position and all of the black kids who meet academic requirements can't cover worth a damn. I remember in 2009 when Notre Dame they literally held every deep play just to get 15 yard penalties (in college its 15 I am sure you are aware, not a spot foul), this was when they had Tate and Floyd. Speaking of which who did Michael Floyd play against? yeah Notre Dame plays a few tougher teams but Floyd had FIVE games last year with a ypc under 10, with a 6th one sitting right at 10 against Maryland. He boosted it up by having 20 ypc against NAVY.

Do Young's highlights stand out? yes, anymore than Shoemakers? no. Do Pettis highlights stand out? yes but he draws some red flags, I still think he can be a solid number 2, you probably only said they didn't because he failed to do much last year. He had to use physicalness to gain separation too much which drew the red flags which will lead me to the next receiver. Do Justin Blackmon's highlights stand out? yes, but he relies too much on physicalness as well (although against a little tougher competition) to get separation, whether it be outmuscling a db to get a jump ball or stiff arming a guy after a short route, or just fighting off a db when running deep, he often has to use his hands to slightly push off, the amount of the times he did that, he should be waiting until the pros to being doing it at that level and reserve it for the tougher dbs. We saw Michael Crabtree, he was much more physical in college and he has struggled in the pros. I would say Blackmon is a poor man's Mike Hass, and that isn't dissing him, Hass had the tools to be a great receiver if given the chance, he relied less on outmuscling guys (although he could) and more on speed and quickness and don't try to analyze some youtube hl of Hass, you won't find any with decent angles, and don't act like you have seen him in a game in college. I have some old tapes that I gathered and will put some clips together when I get some time one day.. I would say Blackmon has more speed and quickness than Pettis though. Who stands out the most? Michael Floyd, but he gets lazy in his route running and and has off the field issues, I would have him ahead of Blackmon. Shoemaker stays in the top 5.

Shoemaker has the speed, quickness, he can use physicalness to gain seperation if he has to, this was evident mostly in the redzone when he ran out of real estate, and he does hold Boise's single season td record. He had some drops but not enough to draw a red flag. His route running is better than Young or Pettis, Moore had more trust on where he would be and there was just better timing there, which is so many accurate passes, he would throw the ball well before Shoemaker made his break. There were a few times he had to slow down to catch the ball/make adjustments though, usually the deeper it got. (usually the deeper routes were more in the middle of the field to keep it easy on Moore). In the NFL he will have a qb that can let it rip. Will he get the chance? past experience says no, but I try to remain optomistic. Nelson finally got his chance, Welker got his. Cooper shined for a little bit, hopefully he gets a real chance as well, as well as Durham etc.
 
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Thrashen

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apparently the Chiefs are very interested in moving up to grab Left Tackle Matt Kalil. That would work out great for Hillis, never impressed with Albert as a LT.

I was never sure about Matt Kalil’s ancestry until I dug a little deeper. Sometimes, he looks white, and sometimes, he doesn’t. With jet-black hair, jet-black eyes, and easily-tanned skin, I always thought that he was mixed (Mexican, Polynesian, etc)…

Kalil_Matt2.jpg

CAPTION: Kalil Looking Non-White

Kalil-Morris-Trophy-thumb-500x666-23057.jpg

CAPTION: Kalil Looking White

I know the last name “Khalil†is a very common surname among Arab vermin. Matt Kalil’s father, Frank, was an offensive lineman for the Bills in the 1980’s. He looks fully white, but I’ve read that he is of Lebanese decent...

kalil85team.JPG

CAPTION: Frank Kalil

Kalil’s mother, Cheryl, is of white Mexican decent. She was Miss California in 1981…

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CAPTION: Cheryl Kalil

Kalil’s brother, Ryan, is an offensive lineman with the Panthers and is indistinguishable from a white person…

200px-Ryan_Kalil.jpg

CAPTION: Ryan Kalil

In conclusion, I would say that Kalil should be considered white. Unfortunately, when in uniform, his sometimes-tan skin gives him the appearance of a light-skinned black.
 

white is right

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I was never sure about Matt Kalil’s ancestry until I dug a little deeper. Sometimes, he looks white, and sometimes, he doesn’t. With jet-black hair, jet-black eyes, and easily-tanned skin, I always thought that he was mixed (Mexican, Polynesian, etc)…

Kalil_Matt2.jpg

CAPTION: Kalil Looking Non-White

Kalil-Morris-Trophy-thumb-500x666-23057.jpg

CAPTION: Kalil Looking White

I know the last name “Khalil” is a very common surname among Arab vermin. Matt Kalil’s father, Frank, was an offensive lineman for the Bills in the 1980’s. He looks fully white, but I’ve read that he is of Lebanese decent...

kalil85team.JPG

CAPTION: Frank Kalil

Kalil’s mother, Cheryl, is of white Mexican decent. She was Miss California in 1981…

thumb.php

CAPTION: Cheryl Kalil

Kalil’s brother, Ryan, is an offensive lineman with the Panthers and is indistinguishable from a white person…

200px-Ryan_Kalil.jpg

CAPTION: Ryan Kalil

In conclusion, I would say that Kalil should be considered white. Unfortunately, when in uniform, his sometimes-tan skin gives him the appearance of a light-skinned black.
I always thought he was half Samoan/quarter Samoan, the name sounds Polynesian. But I assumed he was White because nobody on this board disputed that. Doug Flutie and his brother Darren are at least partially Lebanese on their paternal side. They both look fully White, most Lebanese people that came to North America were Christian and people have speculated that they can trace their ancestry to crusaders.
 

backrow

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The Raiders, Broncos, and Seahawks have shown interest in Beloit WR Derek Carrier.

The three-sport (basketball, track) star clocked a 4.49 forty while posting a 40-inch vertical at 6'3/238 in what was described as a "great workout" at his pro day. He was also productive last season with 75 catches and 12 TDs. Although the competition was weak and Carrier often plays stiff, he's in line to become the first Beloit player to be drafted into the NFL since the 1950s.
 

Hawkeye2

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Bill Parcels was talking about the draft and he said the biggest sleeper on day 2 was going to be white WR/KR Cody Pearcy of Huntington College in Alabama. Parcells praised his number 4.31 40, 44 vertical, 3.76 short shuttle, and 6.67 3 cone drill. I'm sure they will try to compare him to Wes Welker.
 

Tom Iron

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Gentlemen,

Let's not split hairs here. Matt Kalil is White enough to get a beating in a black neighborhood if he found himself there on foot and alone a summer evening about 2AM,

In the book, "Hitler's Table Talk," even Hitler shook his head when Himmler went off on one of his tangents about who was more, or less Aryan than someone else.
Let's not get to that point.

Tom Iron...
 

Westside

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Gentlemen,

Let's not split hairs here. Matt Kalil is White enough to get a beating in a black neighborhood if he found himself there on foot and alone a summer evening about 2AM,

In the book, "Hitler's Table Talk," even Hitler shook his head when Himmler went off on one of his tangents about who was more, or less Aryan than someone else.
Let's not get to that point.

Tom Iron...
On a side note, one of Hitler's.best buddys was Emile Morese. He was half Jewish. I guess dodging bullets and fists during the attempted beer hall coup gets a Jew a pass from Adolf. He was SS Member No.2. Hitler being No. 1. LOL
 

FootballDad

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Here's a story on the "worst" first round picks for each team ever. Predictably, the list is top-heavy with white players for some unknown reason:frusty:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...958779.html;_ylt=AsPuirXepJ9q9RnFdUa84vJDubYF

One that stood out as I quickly scanned the page was the Ravens' Kyle Boller. Sure, he's no Aaron Rodgers, but he's not horrible, and certainly not the Ravens worst first round pick. Anybody remember Duane Starks, taken at number 10 by the Ravens in 1998? I didn't think so.
 

FootballDad

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Another quick one is the Colts and their worst ever, Jeff George. Sure, Jeff was/is a bit of a head case, but he was very talented and won quite a few games. He's better than virtually every black QB that's ever been drafted. He's a bigger bust than Marlin Jackson, taken at #29 in 2005?
 

FootballDad

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Such a fun list! And white QB's are the easiest target. Broncos "worst" was Tommy Maddox? Sure, he didn't do much for the Donks, but was pretty decent (and really really hated) for the Steelers in replacing QB legend, Kordell Stewart. A colossal bust? No, but it's not hard to find a first round bust for the Broncos. Ever heard of Willie Middlebrooks, CB taken at #24 in 2001? Now that's a bust.
 

FootballDad

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Of course, Mike Mamula is bashed yet again. Below expectations? Maybe. Hated? Definitely. Of course, this is the criteria used:

......but it wasn't what was expected of him when was taken seventh overall, either.

If that's the criteria, then why wasn't Corey Simon the "worst Eagle bust ever"?? Drafted at NUMBER 6 in 2000, he only wishes he had a career as good as Mamula's. Oh, right, he's still got upside.:afro:
 
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