Jimmy Chitwood
Hall of Famer
according to Sunday's sports page in the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, the fight is a done deal!
Go Kelly!
Go Kelly!
Kelly Pavlik vs. Jermain Taylor
- Thread starter Jimmy Chitwood
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Charles Martel
Hall of Famer
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I read that this fight will be televised on regular HBO (not PPV) and that's a wise move on their part. Kelly Pavlik is an exciting fighter who can help make the sport of boxing more popular, so the more people that see this fight the better.
This is the fight I had hoped for. Pavlik will beat Taylor and a new star will be born. If he KOs Zertuche, Miranda and Taylor in one year he will have to be named Ring's fighter of the year and be a top 10 P4P. Slowly but surely we are taking over boxing (just like we own UFC, Pride, MMA, wrestling ..etc)
lumsdenpower
Mentor
Finally, we got our chance to prove that we can dominate, that awesome, Calzaghe, Kessler, Pavlik and Bute are all recognised like great fighter. Lucian Bute fight friday, this guy is gonna be a champion for long time. He has ALL tools man, speed, power to KO, defense, chin, resistance.
WHITE NOISE
Mentor
Look for Jermy "Sad Intentions" Taylor to: get injured in training camp, get a viral disease, sprain a knee playing basketball, have managerial problems and any other mishap to avoid a fight with Kelly. I predict that " Sad intentions" will forestall this fight for up to a year and a half at least. Don't forget you heard it here first.
Taylor is really bad-mouthing Pavlik, apparently taking a page from that guy who bad-mouthed him, Edison Miranda:
He has a lot of nerve questioning Pavlik's heart, especially after his last two or three lackluster performances.
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=9250
He has a lot of nerve questioning Pavlik's heart, especially after his last two or three lackluster performances.
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=9250
Angelcynn
Guru
Jermains talking crap, whats new?
mrjohnnynofear
Guru
TheEnglishman said:
Actually that is quite new...Jermaine, until now, never talked bad about his opponents. Personally, I don't like it and it has never been his style. Pavlik has been nothing but respectful to his opponents even when Miranda was shooting off at the mouth. Oh well...
mrjohnnynofear
Guru
Per ESPN....
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=293032 0
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Jermain Taylor's reign as middleweight champion will end in September because he is moving to a new weight class, according to his coach and co-trainer Ozell Nelson.
Taylor, of Little Rock, who is close to signing a deal to fight Kelly Pavlik in Atlantic City, N.J., on Sept. 29, has had trouble making 160 pounds. He plans to move to super middleweight (168 pounds) after the Pavlik fight.
"We just can't make this weight anymore," Nelson told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. "We're not going to kill ourselves to make 160. This weight has been a problem for a long time. We've hired a nutritionist, done everything we can. I'm not going to make him do this anymore. It's time to move up."
Taylor was on a family vacation in Orlando, Fla., and could not be reached for comment.
There is a chance the Taylor-Pavlik fight happens at a catch-weight between 160 and 168 pounds. Taylor promoter Lou DiBella has approached Bob Arum, Pavlik's promoter, with an offer for the two boxers to fight at 168 pounds for the same money as the 160-pound title fight.
Pavlik, of Youngstown, Ohio, is the WBC's mandatory middleweight challenger. But Jack Loew, Pavlik's trainer, said his fighter has no interest in leaving the middleweight division without a title.
Nelson said Taylor will hire a nutritionist who will begin preparing a diet for Taylor.
Nelson said Taylor has had to make considerable effort to make 160 pounds ever since his fights against Bernard Hopkins in 2005. For his most recent fight, against Cory Spinks, Taylor had to shed nine pounds in the final three days before the May 19 bout.
Looks like Calzaghe-Kessler will get a crack at Taylor either way.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=293032 0
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- Jermain Taylor's reign as middleweight champion will end in September because he is moving to a new weight class, according to his coach and co-trainer Ozell Nelson.
Taylor, of Little Rock, who is close to signing a deal to fight Kelly Pavlik in Atlantic City, N.J., on Sept. 29, has had trouble making 160 pounds. He plans to move to super middleweight (168 pounds) after the Pavlik fight.
"We just can't make this weight anymore," Nelson told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. "We're not going to kill ourselves to make 160. This weight has been a problem for a long time. We've hired a nutritionist, done everything we can. I'm not going to make him do this anymore. It's time to move up."
Taylor was on a family vacation in Orlando, Fla., and could not be reached for comment.
There is a chance the Taylor-Pavlik fight happens at a catch-weight between 160 and 168 pounds. Taylor promoter Lou DiBella has approached Bob Arum, Pavlik's promoter, with an offer for the two boxers to fight at 168 pounds for the same money as the 160-pound title fight.
Pavlik, of Youngstown, Ohio, is the WBC's mandatory middleweight challenger. But Jack Loew, Pavlik's trainer, said his fighter has no interest in leaving the middleweight division without a title.
Nelson said Taylor will hire a nutritionist who will begin preparing a diet for Taylor.
Nelson said Taylor has had to make considerable effort to make 160 pounds ever since his fights against Bernard Hopkins in 2005. For his most recent fight, against Cory Spinks, Taylor had to shed nine pounds in the final three days before the May 19 bout.
Looks like Calzaghe-Kessler will get a crack at Taylor either way.
Maple Leaf
Mentor
Since Taylor is talking black I suspect he's scared and wants to try and take Pavlik off his game plan. Imagine Taylor saying "if" Pavlik comes to fight. Taylor is the chump who didn't have the courage to mix it up with that skinny wimp Spinks who can't knock out a lightweight.
Taylor is actually not a defensive fighter per say. His defence is his jab and he moves backwards. Pavlik will counter jab him, back him up, and break him up. Pavlik has many more weapons. For example, Pavlik has a body attack, Taylor has his jab. Pavlik can fight either inside or out, Taylor has his jab. Pavlik has power in both hands, high and low punches, Taylor has his jab. I doubt Pavlik needs to be motivated for this fight.
Pavlik has the reach and height advantages in this fight. He has the height so he has the reach advantage. Taylor has almost exclusively fought shorter opponents throughout his career. That means Taylor has almost always been able to fight down. Fighting up is a different technique. Do you remember Virgill Hill against Thomas Hearns. Hill couldn't fight without the reach advantage. Do you see Taylor bobbing and weaving and stepping in for a body attack against Pavlik. I know he can't do that. Tayor will likely try the step in and out with counters method. It's not going to work.Edited by: Maple Leaf
Taylor is actually not a defensive fighter per say. His defence is his jab and he moves backwards. Pavlik will counter jab him, back him up, and break him up. Pavlik has many more weapons. For example, Pavlik has a body attack, Taylor has his jab. Pavlik can fight either inside or out, Taylor has his jab. Pavlik has power in both hands, high and low punches, Taylor has his jab. I doubt Pavlik needs to be motivated for this fight.
Pavlik has the reach and height advantages in this fight. He has the height so he has the reach advantage. Taylor has almost exclusively fought shorter opponents throughout his career. That means Taylor has almost always been able to fight down. Fighting up is a different technique. Do you remember Virgill Hill against Thomas Hearns. Hill couldn't fight without the reach advantage. Do you see Taylor bobbing and weaving and stepping in for a body attack against Pavlik. I know he can't do that. Tayor will likely try the step in and out with counters method. It's not going to work.Edited by: Maple Leaf
aussieaussie31
Guru
Go Pavlik. The only thing that concerns me is Taylor getting a gift decision if the mathc goes to the cards.
Pavlik is sure to be the aggressor in this one.
As to the following comment that Taylor made:
"Because I'm going to beat him, and I'm going to beat him bad. Especially if he comes to fight."
I think it is the other way around. If Taylor comes to fight he will lose by knockout. If Taylor comes to run an not open up at all he may survive the fight only to get a gift decision.
I was unaware that they had fought before. Does anyone know how their fight in the amateurs played out. Was there an age difference? A points decision? Someone fill me in if you can.
Pavlik is sure to be the aggressor in this one.
As to the following comment that Taylor made:
"Because I'm going to beat him, and I'm going to beat him bad. Especially if he comes to fight."
I think it is the other way around. If Taylor comes to fight he will lose by knockout. If Taylor comes to run an not open up at all he may survive the fight only to get a gift decision.
I was unaware that they had fought before. Does anyone know how their fight in the amateurs played out. Was there an age difference? A points decision? Someone fill me in if you can.
dkr77
Guru
Pavlik has too much in his arsenal for Taylor. I don't see it going the distance. Pavlik by TKO within 9 rounds.
WHITE NOISE
Mentor
Taylor's trainer will do a McGirt and toss the towell before he lets " Sad intentions" imbarass himself on national television. Taylor's " style" defies boxing logic: he fights over his feet, leaning way out in front. Backs straight up, uses very little lateral movement and holds his hands at almost waist level. Pavlik by a KO, TKO or towell toss!
I think it's interesting that Taylor is bad mouthing Pavlik. After the Miranda fight, Taylor had nothing but praise for Pavlik. Maybe he is trying to add some hype to the fight, which is not neccesary.
Odd that he chose to question Kelly's heart, since that is usually the knock on Taylor....a skilled boxer who either ducks certain opponents or does not go for broke (like with Spinks) once he is in the ring.
Will not be an easy fight, but if Kelly can keep up the pressure, he has the power to take him out.
Odd that he chose to question Kelly's heart, since that is usually the knock on Taylor....a skilled boxer who either ducks certain opponents or does not go for broke (like with Spinks) once he is in the ring.
Will not be an easy fight, but if Kelly can keep up the pressure, he has the power to take him out.
Charles Martel
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pt.guard2 said:
This will be a tough fight for Pavlik. I think Kelly will win because he has more heart than Taylor, and won't slow down his relentless pressure in the later rounds.
Unless Pavlik receives a bad cut from an "accidental" head butt, he'll likely win a late KO or TKO.
I agree that it will be a very tough fight and can go either way.
I think Taylor (and Emanuel Stewart) is confident that his experience, speed and defensive skills will be too much for Pavlik, which is why he took this fight, after apparently ducking Joe Calzaghe for a long time.....Joe C. has the expereince and hand speed to dominate Taylor, but Kelly has the power to knock him out....hope he can get close enough and avoid cuts to do it.....
I think Taylor (and Emanuel Stewart) is confident that his experience, speed and defensive skills will be too much for Pavlik, which is why he took this fight, after apparently ducking Joe Calzaghe for a long time.....Joe C. has the expereince and hand speed to dominate Taylor, but Kelly has the power to knock him out....hope he can get close enough and avoid cuts to do it.....
Charles Martel
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I wonder if the media will give Kelly Pavlik recognition if he wins? It will be interesting to hear how people like Dan Wetzel, Teddy Atlas and Max Kellerman comment on it - you can be sure Pavlik will be discredited by those guys.
I hope we'll have Larry Merchant instead of Kellerman doing the commentary on HBO.
I hope we'll have Larry Merchant instead of Kellerman doing the commentary on HBO.
mrjohnnynofear
Guru
Kellerman only does Boxing After Dark. Merchant does World Championship Boxing. They are both in Pay-Per-Views but Merchant does the play-by-play there. This Pavlik-Taylor matchup is WCB so Merchant (thankfully) will be doing the call with Lampley and most likely Lennox Lewis since Manny Steward will be in Taylor's corner.
Maple Leaf
Mentor
This is it. The real how and why prediction for this fight. With a week to go we must state our cases now.
Pavlik is going to bring his best fitness ever into this fight. He is trimming down to 160 by pushing his fitness -he is not trying to melt off shmaltz in the shwitz. Pavlik will be ready to fire 1200 shots of cannon fire at Taylor. 100 shots per round. Taylor has never seen that before. In Taylor's fight with Winky Wright he saw 100 shots after 4 rounds! Can you imagine the difference. A 50-60% evasion rate makes a fighter look like a"defensive genius", but what about the other 50-40? They connect. Pavlik is going to connect with Taylor. Taylor does not have the ability to move laterally for 12 rounds and even if he tried he does not have the fitness. Taylor fires 30-50 shots per round comfortably. More than that and his fitness will be pushed further than he is comfortable with and he will tire.
Both fighters stand orthodox, Pavlik with both hands high, Taylor with his left at his rib level and he swings it from left to right. Pavlik aligns his torso evenly on both of his feet with a wide stance. Taylor's torso leans over on his lead foot and he swings his weight from lead to rear foot. This is just the way they stand and it is not suddently going to change for this fight.
Taylor may seem to have faster hands than Pavlik because he flicks his punches out in order to punch more and faster. When Pavlik "pushes" his punches also, his speed greatly increases but he prefers to throw with his body behind them and that is why he has so much more power than Taylor or any other middleweight for that matter.
Pavlik does not have any particular area in his technique that Taylor can attack and score big on. Pavlik's hands are always high and his blocking is extraordinary. In fact, his blocking is so extradinary even that loathsome Kellerman had to compliment Pavlik for his blocking ability after the Zertuche fight. Taylor's team probably view Pavlik as somewhat of an immobile big gun with long range and armour piercing capability. Taylor's mission will be to try and act like a sniper and pick off the pilot of that big gun. What I mean is Taylor will try and use lateral movement and speed and try to attack Pavlik's flanks and hit him with counter shots as he tries to hit Taylor. It will not work.
Taylor will not stand in front of Pavlik trying to step in and counter Pavlik's shots. He may try early on but Pavlik will land some big stuff and Taylor will simply try to stay on the outside, with his shorter reach, and try to survive by throwing multiple jabs and some straight rights.
Winky Wright closed Taylor's left eye with right hooks thrown up close. Hopkins cut and closed Taylor's left eye with lead rights. Both of those fighters were low output fighters (defensive fighters with low punch output). Pavlik will likely not get the chance to close Taylor's left eye or cut it. It will likely happen like this: Taylor, with his left hand at his ribs, will get hit with straight rights from Pavlik and will simply get knocked out via the right hand. It may appear that the follow-up punches from Pavlik's left hand knocked Taylor out but the punch that won the fight will be Pavlik's right hand. Pavlik by K.O. of Taylor at 2:15 of the 9th round.
Edited by: Maple Leaf
Pavlik is going to bring his best fitness ever into this fight. He is trimming down to 160 by pushing his fitness -he is not trying to melt off shmaltz in the shwitz. Pavlik will be ready to fire 1200 shots of cannon fire at Taylor. 100 shots per round. Taylor has never seen that before. In Taylor's fight with Winky Wright he saw 100 shots after 4 rounds! Can you imagine the difference. A 50-60% evasion rate makes a fighter look like a"defensive genius", but what about the other 50-40? They connect. Pavlik is going to connect with Taylor. Taylor does not have the ability to move laterally for 12 rounds and even if he tried he does not have the fitness. Taylor fires 30-50 shots per round comfortably. More than that and his fitness will be pushed further than he is comfortable with and he will tire.
Both fighters stand orthodox, Pavlik with both hands high, Taylor with his left at his rib level and he swings it from left to right. Pavlik aligns his torso evenly on both of his feet with a wide stance. Taylor's torso leans over on his lead foot and he swings his weight from lead to rear foot. This is just the way they stand and it is not suddently going to change for this fight.
Taylor may seem to have faster hands than Pavlik because he flicks his punches out in order to punch more and faster. When Pavlik "pushes" his punches also, his speed greatly increases but he prefers to throw with his body behind them and that is why he has so much more power than Taylor or any other middleweight for that matter.
Pavlik does not have any particular area in his technique that Taylor can attack and score big on. Pavlik's hands are always high and his blocking is extraordinary. In fact, his blocking is so extradinary even that loathsome Kellerman had to compliment Pavlik for his blocking ability after the Zertuche fight. Taylor's team probably view Pavlik as somewhat of an immobile big gun with long range and armour piercing capability. Taylor's mission will be to try and act like a sniper and pick off the pilot of that big gun. What I mean is Taylor will try and use lateral movement and speed and try to attack Pavlik's flanks and hit him with counter shots as he tries to hit Taylor. It will not work.
Taylor will not stand in front of Pavlik trying to step in and counter Pavlik's shots. He may try early on but Pavlik will land some big stuff and Taylor will simply try to stay on the outside, with his shorter reach, and try to survive by throwing multiple jabs and some straight rights.
Winky Wright closed Taylor's left eye with right hooks thrown up close. Hopkins cut and closed Taylor's left eye with lead rights. Both of those fighters were low output fighters (defensive fighters with low punch output). Pavlik will likely not get the chance to close Taylor's left eye or cut it. It will likely happen like this: Taylor, with his left hand at his ribs, will get hit with straight rights from Pavlik and will simply get knocked out via the right hand. It may appear that the follow-up punches from Pavlik's left hand knocked Taylor out but the punch that won the fight will be Pavlik's right hand. Pavlik by K.O. of Taylor at 2:15 of the 9th round.
Edited by: Maple Leaf
Good analysis, Maple Leaf.
And even if it's less than that. If Kelly only lands, let's say, 30% of his punches, that's still a lot of really brutal punishment.
Steward is banking on the idea that Taylor will be too quick and "coordinated" for Pavlik. But even if Taylor is quicker, does that necessarily make him elusive? I haven't followed his career very closely, but I don't remember him being particularly elusive. And how elusive will he be after being pressured by a big, well-conditioned, high-volume power puncher all night, especially if Kelly can tag him to the body?
Yeah, his defense is underrated. And his offense serves as defense as well.
Hey, if Wright can punch one eye shut,
Pavlik should be able to punch two eyes shut!!
Maple Leaf said:
And even if it's less than that. If Kelly only lands, let's say, 30% of his punches, that's still a lot of really brutal punishment.
Steward is banking on the idea that Taylor will be too quick and "coordinated" for Pavlik. But even if Taylor is quicker, does that necessarily make him elusive? I haven't followed his career very closely, but I don't remember him being particularly elusive. And how elusive will he be after being pressured by a big, well-conditioned, high-volume power puncher all night, especially if Kelly can tag him to the body?
Yeah, his defense is underrated. And his offense serves as defense as well.
Hey, if Wright can punch one eye shut,
Charles Martel
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This is a huge fight...two titles, Ring Champion, and whoever wins will be the universally recognized middleweight champion!
Taylor's been saying Pavlik's an average fighter, and has been overhyped, and will be an easy fight for him. He's looking past Pavlik, talking about going to Britain to fight Calzaghe next year.
Maybe we'll see on Saturday night that Taylor's been the overhyped, overrated boxer.
Taylor's been saying Pavlik's an average fighter, and has been overhyped, and will be an easy fight for him. He's looking past Pavlik, talking about going to Britain to fight Calzaghe next year.
Maybe we'll see on Saturday night that Taylor's been the overhyped, overrated boxer.
A little racial tension leading up to this fight:
[url]http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070926/SPORTS/10926010 2[/url]
And some additional scathing criticism from Taylor:
And some strategy:
[url]http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/mcneil/index.ssf?/base/colu mns-0/1190522877166930.xml&coll=1 [/url]
[url]http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070926/SPORTS/10926010 2[/url]
And some additional scathing criticism from Taylor:
And some strategy:
[url]http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/mcneil/index.ssf?/base/colu mns-0/1190522877166930.xml&coll=1 [/url]
What a surprise -- Pavlik being attacked for being white. Kelly is right -- it will be even sweeter when he KOs Jermaine Taylor, the racist.
The other middleweight champs (Abraham and Sturm) are also white. So why are they making such a big deal out of Kelly having the wrong skin tone?
At least in the combat sports they give us a chance despite our white skin. If Pavlik were a wide receiver he would be on the practice squad ala Mike Haas. If he were a running back he would be scoring touchdowns in the CFL ala Jesse Lumsden. But Kelly is a fighter so he can take the racist caste system and knock it the F*** out!
Pavlik KO 9.
The other middleweight champs (Abraham and Sturm) are also white. So why are they making such a big deal out of Kelly having the wrong skin tone?
At least in the combat sports they give us a chance despite our white skin. If Pavlik were a wide receiver he would be on the practice squad ala Mike Haas. If he were a running back he would be scoring touchdowns in the CFL ala Jesse Lumsden. But Kelly is a fighter so he can take the racist caste system and knock it the F*** out!
Pavlik KO 9.