Karmazin - Spinks

[Triad]

In the 154 pound division: Corey Spinks won a majority decision versus Russian Karmazin in Spink's hometown of St. Louis on Showtime.

Not a great fight - Spinks was too quick in the early rounds but he fatigued and slowed down late. Karmazin appeared to win all the later rounds but came up short on the scorecards.

Kamarzin was complaining about how the ref was quick to break the fighters on all the tie ups. And Spinks was literally running in the last 3 rounds. We have one less white champion in a controversial decision. The local sports writers had Karmazin ahead and the Showtime crew had it scored a draw.

 

[white is right]

I saw the fight and it was close. Spinks got the benefit of the doubt. While I wouldn't call it a robbery a foreign low profile guy like Karmazin wasn't getting that decision....

 

[Triad]

After the first six rounds, which Spinks won 5 of them, I thought the fight was out of reach. However, after round 10 the unofficial scorecards had Karmazin ahead on one, a draw on two, and Spinks ahead 96-94 on th Showtime card. Karmazin clearly won rounds 11 and 12 so I thought he had a chance at the decision.

The fight itself was not exciting. Spinks has a very good right jab that kept K off balance and K has an unorthodox style. Anytime K got close Spinks would grab him and the ref would immmediately break them. After round 6 Spinks was skating and holding until the end.

After Spinks entrance (a 4 minute choreographed rap and dance session with a local rap group) I was really wanting to see a beat down.

 

[JD074]

Another fighter dances around the ring in the 12th round. I can't stand that. Show some heart! I don't mind a little holding, but it can get excessive. The ref should've docked a point from Spinks eventually. Calzaghe was docked a point late in his fight against Lacy for holding, so why not? I guess holding is a bad thing only when a white fighter does it.

I wonder what would happen if referees simply didn't break up fighters when they hold, or perhaps just not break it up too quickly. That would be interesting.

 

[White_Savage]

I wonder what would happen if referees simply didn't break up fighters when they hold, or perhaps just not break it up too quickly. That would be interesting.

JD:
In the last 60 years or so, they have more and more tweaked the enforcement of the rules of boxing to lessen the chances for a shorter, powerful fighter against a taller, slimmer one (read: alot of fights between Whites and blacks, average body types being what they are), esp. when enforcing against White fighters. Marciano would have alot of trouble beating some of his opponents under today's rules. No bulling them into the corner/ropes, they'd just clinch and get the distance reset to that which is advantageous for the monkey-armed.

Of course, when a Wladamir Klitscko uses these same rules to his advantage, it's bad bad bad, so sayeth the Caste boxing announcers...

 

[white is right]

The sainted Ali used to grab all day and push down on Joe Fraziers neck. He never got called out for it. Wlad grabs and he is the second coming of Henry Akinwande. The rules of boxing have inadvertently favoured reflex and longer armed fighters. The reduction of the rounds hurt rugged physical type fighters. The more liberal stoppages have hurt the gritty fighter, who fights to the end. Most of the se innovations have hurt the caucasian fighter, but I don't feel that they were done for that reason as promoters have always preferred white American champions....

 

[White Shogun]

promoters have always preferred white American champions....

You are NOT serious, are you? You're kidding, right?

 

[white is right]

The biggest grossing fights in the history of boxing have always been promoted as black vs white(or black hero vs uncle tom). Why is that? Boxing is an inherently racist sport, if you deny that you have your head in the sand....

 

[White Shogun]

I do believe boxing is a racist sport, I just do NOT believe the promoters have always preferred a white champion. Especially not in the modern era. White fighters get no respect at all, at least not until recently.

 

[JD074]

No bulling them into the corner/ropes, they'd just clinch and get the distance reset to that which is advantageous for the monkey-armed.

And fleet-footed, like Spinks. Spinks was clearly quicker than Karmazin and used that to his advantage on the outside (at least during the first half of the fight.) If Karmazin was allowed to work on the inside, perhaps he could've nullified Spinks's speed advantage.

Of course, when a Wladamir Klitscko uses these same rules to his advantage, it's bad bad bad, so sayeth the Caste boxing announcers...

Exactly, well said. It's a mixed bag for us. Klitschko benefited from this against Peter, but it really hurt Hatton against Colazo and Karmazin against Spinks. What would happen to Klitschko/ Colazo/ Spinks if they couldn't get that "distance reset" (that's a good way of putting it) against Peter/ Hatton/ Karmazin? I'd like to see those results.

As much as I like Klitschko, if Peter was allowed to work out of those holds and throw bombs on the inside, he may very well have knocked out Klitschko. But overall we should benefit since there should be plenty of white fighters who are tough and strong but don't necessarily have advantages of speed and/ or height and reach.

Of course, these types of fights could be a lot more brutal. Could this be part of the reason why they changed the rules to emphasize fighting on the outside rather than inside? Edited by: JD074

 

[white is right]

Yes that was the reason, when they gradually changed the rules it was to reduce the UFC type boxing. John Ruiz aside I don't know anybody that fights close to that rugged turn of the century style.

 

[Hockaday]

I remember a fighter, from Philly I think, named Johny "Dancing Machine" Carter. This Spinks is a "Dancing Idiot," using up precious energy the day of a fight to rehearse his dance moves when he's going to face a pressure fighter later that day. I wonder if he understood that when he was running out of gas the last half of the fight. Probably not.

 

[Hockaday]

John Ruiz, rugged? Rugged? There's jab and grab, he's grab and grab. If that's how they fought at the turn of the century, thank God for progress.

 

[white is right]

Watch old photos of Sullivan vs Kilrain and their was alot of mauling. For all of Ruiz's faults, he is at least gritty(until he opens his mouth and whines)..

 

[JD074]

I'm not talking about allowing a fighter to constantly hold and punch, but rather allowing a fighter to work out of a hold. A referee could still dock points for holding and punching, but otherwise leave them alone. So now that I've thought about it a little more, I don't think it has to be that brutal.

(Of course, fighting on the outside can be pretty brutal. Just ask Chris Byrd.

)

I saw some of the Calzaghe/ Lacy fight again last night, and it's a great example of what I'm talking about. Calzaghe would grab Lacy's arm, then let go, then block Lacy's punches, and then fire back with a great combination. In other words, he was willing to fight on the inside. Why? I have to assume it's because his defense is better than these other fighters. Edited by: JD074

 

[Weltner]

After Spinks entrance (a 4 minute choreographed rap and dance session with a local rap group)....


Oh,JUDAS!!!!Watch such repulsive sleaziness catch on and become the norm.Now We have to brace ourselves for it whenever We watch any fight with a black "boxer".

 

[Triad]

Spinks' last fight in his hometown had a 7-8 minute choreographed rap entrance with Nelly. He got KTFU in that one. So he learned his lesson and went with the 4 minute entrance with a local rap group no one has heard of for his next fight.