Joshua-Wladimir Klitschko April 29 London Wembley Stadium

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by Fighting Pride, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Wlad has a rematch clause I believe. If he wants this fight it could happen again. After two loses in a row many are convinced retirement is the best option. I think that he could clearly win a rematch and he has little to risk in way of his legacy and everything to gain. Part of the Klitschko problem was that they beat everybody. Strangely boxers seem to grow immensely in legacy if they come back from loses rather than never losing at all. How much would his legacy grow if he came back and beat Joshua and then pummeled Wilder at a ripe old boxing age?
     
  2. Fighting Pride

    Fighting Pride Guru

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    Maybe Wlad can switch trainers and have another go at Joshua. Wilder is not willing to fight anyone so that fight will never be made and Wilder should not be on anyone's radar.
     
  3. The Hock

    The Hock Master

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    In spite of the outcome I give Klitschko a decent chance in a rematch.

    Joshua was in bad shape in the sixth and I've seen fights waved off in similar situations.

    As an aside, I think Joshua annihilates Wilder.
     
  4. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    There is never a peep of praise about white men on Yahoo front page. There is never a peep about boxing on Yahoo unless it's about Mayweather. White stars have been beating the black of so many it is starting to get old. Lo! Mohammed gets a reg stoppage against Klitschko and suddenly this b.s. makes the front page:

    Anthony Joshua TKOs Wladimir Klitschko in 11th round in scintillating heavyweight bout
    https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/an...scintillating-heavyweight-bout-223312458.html
     
  5. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Fury (if in shape), Pulev and Potevkin are the only ones I can think of who are serious challengers to AJ. Does anyone know someone else?
    I was going to comment on the rancid Youqueer site for the same reasons explained by Ambrose, but I just said F it. Youqueer is the quintessential anti straight white male site followed closely by vile Huffpost site.
     
  6. Riggins44

    Riggins44 Master

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    It shows how so many Prole Eloi zombies don't have the intellect to connect the dots about the invasion of their homeland that is going on around them, the destruction of their culture, and the displacement of themselves.
     
  7. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Wlad was down by two points on two cards and up on another. Had he won 11 and 12 he would have gotten a split decision. When he had Joshua down and he was so tired I was sure Klitschko would win. Disappointing isn't the word.
     
  8. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    Pulev hasn't shown the power to win by decisive knockout and could never get a decision in U.K.

    Povetkin has been a big threat since Wlad's decline so he's been blocked from competing by accusations of having 0.000001% of something or another.

    Fury is the best in the world and will prove it again unless the witch doctors block him also with their drug accusations.

    Meanwhile Mohammed will continue to take all of the chemical help he can get unobstructed.
     
  9. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Trey Lippe-Morrison is a good 3 years away from realistically fighting in an eliminator or getting a title shot at even a splintered title. He's still fighting 8 round fights against journeyman and novice prospects.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  10. Rebajlo

    Rebajlo Mentor

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    Well, it appears I was wrong in stating that Joshua would fail to knock Klitschko out. That huge right uppercut which ushered in the Ukrainian’s round 11 demise wasn’t a lucky punch either. Therefore, I was wrong again. ;) However…

    My overall conviction that another display of hyper-hesitation would spell defeat for Klitschko most definitely was correct. After knocking Joshua down in round six, Klitschko failed to aggressively exploit his advantage, inexplicably opting to keep jabbing when he should have waded in and clobbered the clearly struggling Negro into a paste. That’s not what one would expect from a supremely experienced ex-champion and all-time great who suddenly had a dazed opponent 14 years his junior in a vulnerable position from which he could more than likely end the fight via stoppage. But there was that Klitschko hyper-caution once again. The Ukrainian had a wide open window of opportunity to end the fight by knockout - but stupidly chose to close it. One might imagine that a 41 year old boxer would instantly pounce on any opportunity to finish off an opponent in his twenties and thus avoid the disadvantageous prospect of fighting the full twelve rounds. Yet Klitschko stood back and allowed the chance to slip away.

    As I said earlier in the thread, Klitschko and his camp must surely have realised that the probability of a 41 year old achieving a close points victory at Wembley against a young “British” Negro who is viewed as the “future” of boxing was virtually negligible. At least, they should have figured it out. So Klitschko’s lack of urgency in pressing for a knockout was probably one of the worst errors of judgment he has ever made, even if one removes his own eventual knockout from the equation.

    Klitschko was never going to “win” the final two rounds and get the decision unless he really opened up and dished out some major damage. Given the course of the later rounds, anyone can see that that wasn’t about to happen.

    Klitschko should retire and never return to the ring. Everyone who says that he should fight a rematch might perhaps take the time to consider the following points.

    Six or seven months is an awfully long time for a boxer above the age of forty. We’re not talking about hockey here. This is the heavyweight division of a punishing fight sport. Klitschko isn’t going to get better, nor will he maintain his current levels of speed, power, and - most importantly - stamina. He will simply decline even further. Does anyone wish to see Joshua knocking out a previously dominant, long-time White champion and all time great again several months down the track? I don’t. But I’m sure the media Jews would love it…

    Klitschko took some big head shots during round eleven. This was exactly the kind of heavy punishment he wished to avoid by adopting his extra cautious approach. At his age, Klitschko would be mad to risk suffering additional cerebral and osseous damage by continuing his career beyond its “use by date”.

    Now that the “Klitschko Era” has come to a close, I expect that heavyweight boxing shall suddenly return to prominence in the media.

    The Alexander Povetkin enthusiasts should probably keep in mind that he will turn 38 in a few months time.
     
  11. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    Spot on! Rebajlo. Wlad's time has gone. Enjoy his family and maybe train a new White champ. But man, it was there for his taking yesterday. Oh well, he has his brains and wealth. Enjoy it.
     
  12. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    Round six...

     
  13. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    Full fight

     
  14. Westside

    Westside Hall of Famer

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    In looking at that replay, Wlad did try for the KO, but he could never connect on the KO blows. Father time wreaking havoc on him.
     
  15. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    "If Wlad will not throw punches maybe he throws fights?"


    Do you think he deliberately didn't finish off Joshua? That was about the worst finishing job I've ever seen in boxing. After Wlad knocked him down and he was standing there on queer street for the rest of the round and the next few rounds Wlad was missing his sparseley thrown punches so wide he looked like a golden glove sub novice. Look at the early KO artist Wlad by way of contrast.
     
  16. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    Look at how Usyk finishes fights! He doesn't just hang out like a nerd waiting around for another lucky shot. Usyk could turn heavyweight, but they have superheavyweights running the heavyweight division now - and boxing needs an extra super heavyweight division!

     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  17. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    He did say he could have done more but he thought that Joshua was finished at that point, and just about everyone watching the fight thought the same...but here is how Wlad used to finish fights:

     
  18. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    Luis Ortiz: "I feel more than ever that I will KO Joshua within 8 rounds - but I also feel that after Klitschko dropped Joshua with one punch that Eddie Hearn will never let Joshua get in the ring with me. To me Klitschko let him off the hook. I wouldn't have. I would have had him out of there in that 6th round," said Ortiz to BoxingScene.com."



    Absolutely right. Wlad had him dead on his feet in round six and on queer street for the following rounds. Joshua would never have seen the seventh round against a younger Wlad.
     
  19. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    Had Wlad made blitzkrieg thereafter the outcome would have be conclusive.

    Did he throw? I can't say for certain. But I do know that Wlad now is more than a boxer, and that he works both in and out of the ring. And a man that works both sides of the fence can't be trusted.
     
  20. Rebajlo

    Rebajlo Mentor

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    Westside -

    Yes, after flooring Joshua in the sixth round Klitschko went for a knockout but he did so by sitting back and carefully trying to set up his right, allowing Joshua ample time to rally his scrambled faculties and flagging strength. There was something like 1:40 left in the round when Joshua got up off the canvas. The Negro looked wobbly and could barely clinch yet Klitschko persisted in his attempts to end the fight with a clean right hand. I'm of the opinion that if the Ukrainian had instead swarmed straight in and unloaded sustained barrages of frenzied shots the unsteady Joshua would have crumbled - both physically and mentally - inside 30 seconds or so.

    Joshua’s troubles had begun not long after he knocked Klitschko down in the fifth round. The Ukrainian admirably responded to the setback with the kind of aggression he should have displayed throughout the fight. He hit Joshua with a couple of head shots which halted the Negro’s lumbering and ineffective “closing out” onslaught before landing a really juicy hook plum on the ear. That blow took the starch right out of Joshua, leaving him visibly stunned. Klitschko proceeded to take the initiative and hit Joshua with a series of methodically precise punches, including an uppercut that Joshua disastrously ducked straight into. The Negro looked panicked as hell and his defence had almost evaporated in a manner eerily reminiscent of Frank Bruno. Yet Klitschko was unable to finish Joshua off because at that point in the round his 41-year old constitution couldn’t muster up the required energy

    One thing is certain: had Klitschko been 38 or 39, he would definitely have stopped Joshua in that fifth round.
     
  21. chris371

    chris371 Mentor

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    Wlad continues to fight tall exclusively. He (almost) never uses the fundamental boxing shell (both temples and chin protected). His style is suitable for smaller opponents, but against those with equally long reach one cannot rely solely on distance and evasion. A shield from which one can quickly return fire is required. His hands are often in no mans land (not protecting his head or landing on his opponent's head). I believe that wlads refusal to incorporate this basic strategy is a big factor in his last two losses against tall men. Conversely, Pulev lost against Wlad exactly because his hands were in no mans land. Ive often noticed that elite athletes such as Wlad often neglect basic fundamentals, perhaps out of confidence. And that confidence is necessary to become an elite boxer, but maybe it sometimes gets out of hand.

    Im speaking from personal experience- i have fought against tall and short guys, and its intuitive that one cannot use the same approach against smaller and equal reach guys.

    What I mean is he never uses the following: Shell up, allow your Opponent to Punch your guard (Glove/forearm) and then from the guard immediately hook/straight Punch as soon as it lands.
    This Video Shows it being done repeatedly:


    As a tall fighter i learned that when im dont have my usual reach Advantage, i cannot rely on distance to stay safe. The solution is head movement, footwork to achieve angles and sometimes bunkering down behind my Hands. Bunkering down just has to be done sometimes. It shouldnt be the whole strategy, but it is very hard to NEVER use it.



    Here is Pulev losing because of this: his Hands are in no mans land: neither attacking nor defending. Thats just pointless.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  22. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    I think you mean he fights with a low guard? This is true, but it is only on his jab hand. He does this because it makes his jab more versatile and adds stealth. A low jab is harder to see and it can curl into a hook. Wlad knocked Pulev out doing this.

    I'd say a bigger problem is he never goes to the body. And I don't mean hooking to the body which exposes the chin. If you watch Kovalev, he jabs so hard to the body he knocks opponents out with it. When Wlad had Mohammed hurt, had he jabbed hard he'd have forced a guard drop which opens up the chin; Wlad didn't, and hit arms or missed. Mohammed went into the fight knowing he only had to protect his chin so it made the fight much easier to plan for.
     
  23. werewolf

    werewolf Hall of Famer

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    "I'd say a bigger problem is he never goes to the body."

    Good observation. And yeah when Joshua was in trouble like that that would have been just the ticket. Did Wlad ever throw body shots? I don't recall him ever going to the body, just head hunting, but could be I just forgot.
     
  24. Ambrose

    Ambrose Master

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    I think it was against Thompson he threw a double left hook: left to liver and left to head. Thompson fell over. The only body shot I can remember in all of his fights.
     
  25. chris371

    chris371 Mentor

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    Well, you make a good Point. However, what youre talking about is a general offensive strategy, I was saying he almost never uses the traditional guard even when he is on the defensive. There are times when the opponent is clearly attacking and Wlad is "playing defense", but he never uses a conventional guard. I understand that he isnt an orthodox fighter, but even then, one must occasionally Wall up behind ones guard (if you are out angled, trapped against the ropes, tired etc).

    Also the "Hands low" Approach is usually only good against smaller guys and if your are athletically superior. In his last two bouts he was 40 and had a reach disadvantage. The result is clear.
    Also Pulev lost because his Hands werent protecting his head. thats a defensive fail.
     

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