Gerhart at training camp for the first time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZmS_Vl8K_EEdited by: jcolec02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZmS_Vl8K_EEdited by: jcolec02
Great Toby Gerhart Video
- Thread starter jcolec02
- Start date
There's a bit of an arguement in the comments under this video. Did he time better than Dexter McCluster? McCluster is listed at 4.58 and is on the top performer list on the NFL.com site combine results. Everything I've read has Gerhart at 4.53 and yet he isn't on the top performers list on NFL.com. Anybody know what gives? From what I've read 4.58 is the fastest time McCluster ran and 4.53 for Toby.
Man, looking forward to the NFL season real games. With AP and Toby it should be the Pony Express 2010, if AP is able to hold on to the ball. Should be interesting. Farve should have a field day in a relaxed mode dumping and rifling balls to the recievers. Are there any white recievers on the Vikings?
Jimmy Chitwood
Hall of Famer
Kaptain Poop said:
you are correct in remembering those times, Kaptain. isn't it funny that McCluster is considered a "speedy" scat back, when he is actually slower than the much larger and stronger Gerhart. but it is Gerhartwho is considered slow ..."weird," huh?
after the draft, several of us were confused as to why Gerhart wasn't listed on the top performers list. to my knowledge, we neverfound a satisfactory answer.
FootballDad
Hall of Famer
Even Scott Wright at DraftCountdown averaged Toby's 40 out at 4.55, faster than McCluster's 4.58.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Does anyone know what Toby's 4.5 would average out to if he ran the 100m? I'm thinking it would be like 10.8 or so.
ToughJ.Riggins
Hall of Famer
It's hard to say WA33. The 40 yard dash is short enough that your burst (ie. 10 yard clip) is quite important to calculate the time. Toby has a good, but not eye popping 10 yard clip for a big back at 1.55.
If you want to look at some strange cases, look no further than Sam McGuffie. He had a PB in the 100 meter dash of 10.86 when he ran an electronic 4.32 40 (a 4.32 40 you'd think would put him at about 10.2 in the 100 meters). Wes Welker and Jacob Hester can run a 1.5 10 yard clip- despite running a 4.61 40 yard dash. I think Welker has even run a 1.48 10 yard clip before. Darren McFadden is a strange case b/c he runs a 1.5 10 yard clip- which is pretty good, but not phenomenal for a scatback, but then he runs a 4.33 40 which is absolutely phenomenal and then he runs a 10.8x 100 meter which is pretty good, but not great for a scatback. McGuffie now runs faster than McFadden over 100 meters with a PB of 10.70.
I think this points to McFadden having a pretty good burst, a phenomenal drive phase- and then pretty good, but not great top end speed.
Another strange case is Leon Washington who ran a 4.41 or 4.43 40 yard, but somehow ran a poor 1.6 10 yard clip for a scatback. I believe Justin Gatlin only ran a 4.4 flat 40 yard dash despite running a PB (albeit with the help of some special juice) of 9.77 in the 100 meters. Olympic 200 meter sprinter John Capel only ran a 4.41 in the 40. This leads me to wonder, if even Bolt would run faster than 4.2 at the NFL combine- if he trained for the 40 and partook in the combine. My guess is Bolt would run a 4.18, but we don't know for sure.
To rap up this rant- my guess is Toby would run the 100 in about 11-11.2 seconds. Toby has a pretty good burst and drive phase for a big back, but his top end speed is not at the level of a Steven Jackson or a Brian Leonard, although in my strong opinion, Gerhart is a better back overall than Leonard. Gerhart's top end speed is a little below average for a tailback in the NFL I think, but overall he could be a Steven Jackson type stud back if given enough carries. Gerhart is actually quite similar to Jackson, except Jackson has a bit of a top end speed advantage.
To get back to the strange top performer omission of Gerhart on NFL.com- Scott Wright who is pretty anti-white had Gerhart's average hand-time at 1.55. NFLdraftscout had Gerhart's best hand time at 4.5 and his worst at 4.61 and his average around the same as Wright. I'm not sure if NFL.com was using electronic times for their top performer list, but still- I think if McCluster's best handtime recording was 4.53- than his electronic would have been very similar to Toby. I certainly wouldn't completely rule out a conspiracy by NFL.com against Gerhart considering how anti-white the pathetic league is, but of course DWFs never care to research this stuff.
If you want to look at some strange cases, look no further than Sam McGuffie. He had a PB in the 100 meter dash of 10.86 when he ran an electronic 4.32 40 (a 4.32 40 you'd think would put him at about 10.2 in the 100 meters). Wes Welker and Jacob Hester can run a 1.5 10 yard clip- despite running a 4.61 40 yard dash. I think Welker has even run a 1.48 10 yard clip before. Darren McFadden is a strange case b/c he runs a 1.5 10 yard clip- which is pretty good, but not phenomenal for a scatback, but then he runs a 4.33 40 which is absolutely phenomenal and then he runs a 10.8x 100 meter which is pretty good, but not great for a scatback. McGuffie now runs faster than McFadden over 100 meters with a PB of 10.70.
I think this points to McFadden having a pretty good burst, a phenomenal drive phase- and then pretty good, but not great top end speed.
Another strange case is Leon Washington who ran a 4.41 or 4.43 40 yard, but somehow ran a poor 1.6 10 yard clip for a scatback. I believe Justin Gatlin only ran a 4.4 flat 40 yard dash despite running a PB (albeit with the help of some special juice) of 9.77 in the 100 meters. Olympic 200 meter sprinter John Capel only ran a 4.41 in the 40. This leads me to wonder, if even Bolt would run faster than 4.2 at the NFL combine- if he trained for the 40 and partook in the combine. My guess is Bolt would run a 4.18, but we don't know for sure.
To rap up this rant- my guess is Toby would run the 100 in about 11-11.2 seconds. Toby has a pretty good burst and drive phase for a big back, but his top end speed is not at the level of a Steven Jackson or a Brian Leonard, although in my strong opinion, Gerhart is a better back overall than Leonard. Gerhart's top end speed is a little below average for a tailback in the NFL I think, but overall he could be a Steven Jackson type stud back if given enough carries. Gerhart is actually quite similar to Jackson, except Jackson has a bit of a top end speed advantage.
To get back to the strange top performer omission of Gerhart on NFL.com- Scott Wright who is pretty anti-white had Gerhart's average hand-time at 1.55. NFLdraftscout had Gerhart's best hand time at 4.5 and his worst at 4.61 and his average around the same as Wright. I'm not sure if NFL.com was using electronic times for their top performer list, but still- I think if McCluster's best handtime recording was 4.53- than his electronic would have been very similar to Toby. I certainly wouldn't completely rule out a conspiracy by NFL.com against Gerhart considering how anti-white the pathetic league is, but of course DWFs never care to research this stuff.
Jack Lambert
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jcolec02 said:I'm still pissed that the Texans didn't draft this kid, he might have been a rookie of the year contender, now he's just a back up
Yeah, I think he would've gotten more work as a Texan. It's been pointed out on here by me and other members that white RBs always get drafted by a team that already has a starting calibre back.
Brian Leonard gets drafted in the 2nd round by the Rams, who already had a good RB in Steven Jackson.
Then, Jacob Hester is drafted in the 3rd round by the Chargers, after Tomlinson just came off one of the best years of his career.
Finally, last year, Toby was drafted by the Vikings, who inexplicably traded up to get a backup to Adrian Peterson in the 2nd round. The Texans then proceeded to select a RB with the pick they traded down from. Guess they wouldn't want whitey carrying the workload for them. Why do teams waste their high, "precious" draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on guys who are slotted to be backups?
Gerhart would have been ideal for the Texans one cut running system, just shows how even a relatively white friendly team will recoil from having too many whites.
The best revenge would be for Ben Tate to be a bust and Gerhart to be a star. Tate suffered from injuries at Auburn, only going over 1,000 yards in his senior season. Peterson was injury prone at Oklahoma but has been pretty healthy in the NFL; butgiven how he looked bigger and slower last year it wouldn't be surprising if he's injured this year. At any rate he didn't look very good the second half of '09, plus he had fumbleitis at crucial times.
The best revenge would be for Ben Tate to be a bust and Gerhart to be a star. Tate suffered from injuries at Auburn, only going over 1,000 yards in his senior season. Peterson was injury prone at Oklahoma but has been pretty healthy in the NFL; butgiven how he looked bigger and slower last year it wouldn't be surprising if he's injured this year. At any rate he didn't look very good the second half of '09, plus he had fumbleitis at crucial times.
Ben Tate will be a bust, mark it down. His combine numbers don't match up to how he plays on the field. He can run in a straight line, thats it, and you can't succeed in the NFL by only running to the outside. The only reason why he put up 1k his senior season was because of the new offensive coordinator's offensive system. He ran these crazy plays that had the "best defenses in college football" confused.
Look at 4:21 where the defender takes himself out of the play, he was in perfect position to make the tackle, then runs across the field, taking out another defender with him.
[TUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgcBPczLUI0&feature=player_embedded[/TUBE]
Pretty much all of his big runs came on plays like this, to the outside and those types of plays are only run a few times in an nfl game, if at all, running to the outside is not that big in the NFL. Rarely did I see him take it up the middle, like an NFL run (when he did it was a not impressive), you can see it on his highlights if you youtube it, its all runs to the outside. We have seen with Reggie Bush that running to the outside doesn't work in the NFL, and Reggie is faster than Tate. Tate has no vision, no ability to cut and hit the hole and when he does have to cut and hit the hole he is much much slower, which is what his draft analysis has said. He is the opposite of what type of runner you would want in the Texans blocking scheme. Very strange that they would pass on Gerhart and take Tate.
The system he was running in was really no different than the triple option on guessing who has the ball (except Tate pretty much always ran to the outside, triple option sometimes changes roles of players and where they go, so the coaches at Auburn knew his weaknesses and catered to it), and good defenses don't seem to have trouble with that. Missouri with first round linebacker Sean Weatherspoon were baffled by Navy's triple option and got destroyed in their bowl game, yet Paul Johnson's (master of the triple option) Georgia Tech got shut down by Iowa's defense with guys like Angerer and Edds, who imo are much better than Weatherspoon but not according to dwfs.
Adrian Peterson has declined every year, his ypc has gone down by a yard since he was a rookie, and in the postseason this year when it matters, he was averaging 3.6 ypc, you think with Favre and a passing attack to stop defenders from loading the box he would have had a great 09 season. He is getting worn down and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets injured.
So Don, your scenario of Tate being a bust and Gerhart doing great has a good chance of happening. Gerhart only needs to average about 65 yards a game to go over 1k. So all he would need is to avg about 12-14 carries a game. I don't think he will have a problem averaging around 5 ypc on the Vikings his rookie year.
Edited by: snow
Look at 4:21 where the defender takes himself out of the play, he was in perfect position to make the tackle, then runs across the field, taking out another defender with him.
[TUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgcBPczLUI0&feature=player_embedded[/TUBE]
Pretty much all of his big runs came on plays like this, to the outside and those types of plays are only run a few times in an nfl game, if at all, running to the outside is not that big in the NFL. Rarely did I see him take it up the middle, like an NFL run (when he did it was a not impressive), you can see it on his highlights if you youtube it, its all runs to the outside. We have seen with Reggie Bush that running to the outside doesn't work in the NFL, and Reggie is faster than Tate. Tate has no vision, no ability to cut and hit the hole and when he does have to cut and hit the hole he is much much slower, which is what his draft analysis has said. He is the opposite of what type of runner you would want in the Texans blocking scheme. Very strange that they would pass on Gerhart and take Tate.
The system he was running in was really no different than the triple option on guessing who has the ball (except Tate pretty much always ran to the outside, triple option sometimes changes roles of players and where they go, so the coaches at Auburn knew his weaknesses and catered to it), and good defenses don't seem to have trouble with that. Missouri with first round linebacker Sean Weatherspoon were baffled by Navy's triple option and got destroyed in their bowl game, yet Paul Johnson's (master of the triple option) Georgia Tech got shut down by Iowa's defense with guys like Angerer and Edds, who imo are much better than Weatherspoon but not according to dwfs.
Adrian Peterson has declined every year, his ypc has gone down by a yard since he was a rookie, and in the postseason this year when it matters, he was averaging 3.6 ypc, you think with Favre and a passing attack to stop defenders from loading the box he would have had a great 09 season. He is getting worn down and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets injured.
So Don, your scenario of Tate being a bust and Gerhart doing great has a good chance of happening. Gerhart only needs to average about 65 yards a game to go over 1k. So all he would need is to avg about 12-14 carries a game. I don't think he will have a problem averaging around 5 ypc on the Vikings his rookie year.
Edited by: snow
Jimmy Chitwood
Hall of Famer
snow said:
snow, the offensive coordinator you're talking about is Guz Malzahn. i don't want to de-rail the thread by going into detail, but suffice it to say the man is a genius when it comes to football offense. i can share more with you, if anyone is interested.
now back to the topic ...
Toby Gerhart is awesome!
Here we go again:
"Coach Brad Childress confirmed that Adrian Peterson will play a bigger role on third downs this season.
This has been a subject of speculation since Chester Taylor's exit, but it's nice to see confirmation from the head coach. Peterson already doubled his career-high in receptions last year, and he should see another uptick in 2010. Once considered a much better value in standard scoring leagues, Peterson could flirt with 50-55 receptions this season. Toby Gerhart will be utilized as a more traditional backup"
"Coach Brad Childress confirmed that Adrian Peterson will play a bigger role on third downs this season.
This has been a subject of speculation since Chester Taylor's exit, but it's nice to see confirmation from the head coach. Peterson already doubled his career-high in receptions last year, and he should see another uptick in 2010. Once considered a much better value in standard scoring leagues, Peterson could flirt with 50-55 receptions this season. Toby Gerhart will be utilized as a more traditional backup"
Highlander
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It's too bad we almost have to "hope" another player gets injured so that a more (or, at least equally) deserving White player can actually get a chance to play. It shouldn't come down to this, but the current Caste system (itself an institutionalized "injury" (hurting White players) system) leaves few alternatives, unfortunately.Kaptain Poop said:
white lightning
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That is why I'm a little worried about him going to the Vikings. It seems like no matter what, our guys always get screwed. Toby should be a number one back. Why the hell did San Diego not take him. Just our luck. The NFL has ruined more white football players careers than I can even count. It just makes me sick to my stomach. Hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
Jimmy Chitwood
Hall of Famer
the piece written by our own J.B. Cash sums up the scenario very, very well, i think.
The Strange Case of Misplaced White Running Backs
The Strange Case of Misplaced White Running Backs
JReb1
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Even if AP gets injured the Vikings wouldn't let Toby carry the load. They would just say that Toby is to green and they're to close to winning a championship to have a rookie RB learning (with the media agreeing) on the job and then they'd sign or trade for a past prime afflete RB to carry the load until AP gets back. At best Toby gets an Alstott role but the odds are he's going to be used like Hester, Hillis and Leonard...
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Gerhart was the best back in all of college football last year. Almost every time the best running back in college gets drafted he ends up starting in the NFL. The best college back gets stuck behind a top 3 running back in the NFL. What a coincidence.