Football Equipment Thread

[Colonel_Reb]

I am starting this thread for purely selfish reasons. Many of you know I am an equipment junkie, and I wanted to have this thread as a centralized ranting place when it comes to my strange interest. Feel free to add anything about any team here, or ask any questions. I can't promise an answer, but at least we can get more people looking into things.

As far as equipment goes, there are big things happening in college football these days. Instead of everyone wearing cookie cutter facemasks, I like to think that there are still some individualists out there who break the mold. Well, in recent weeks, I have found what I believe to be 3 of those guys. One I posted on last week. Ohio State WR Ted Ginn Jr., who wears a kickers facemask, most assuredly for better vision. Here is the pic for those who didn't see it.

Second up is a guy I have been wondering about for some time now, but have no difinitive proof to support my theory. It appears as though Pittsburgh QB Tyler Palko has been wearing a 2 point chinstrap this year, or at least a 4 point strap with the snaps lined up on it. I tried to figure it out during the West Virginia game, but couldn't for sure. I did see a couple of unpostable pics of him with what appeared to be a 2 point strap. Anyway, if someone has a pic of him from this year with a clearly visible 2 point chinstrap, I'd love to see it.

Last, but certainly not least we have Louisiana Tech QB Zac Champion, who does, without a doubt, wear a 2 point chinstrap. I saw it last night during the Fresno State game, they even zoomed in on him at the end of the game. I did notice it wasn't a factory piece, but a low-mount 4 point piece with the back attachments cut off each side. If anyone has a pic of Zac, please post it as well. I could only find non-postable pics of him.

I am almost certain that a Houston punter about 2-3 years ago wore a 2 point chinstrap. I saw it during a game one night, but never found any picture of it, and I don't remember his name either.

You may wonder why all this chinstrap talk is a big deal to me. Well, I'll tell you. Its because, in order to prevent helmets from flying off and more injuries, the NCAA required the use of 4 point chin straps beginning with the 1976 season. As far as I know, that hasn't changed. If it has, that would be a big deal to me, but since I don't have a copy of the monstrous rulebook, I don't know for sure. What amazes me even more though, is that if the rules have not been changed, and 2 pointers are still illegal, why are the refs letting players wear them? I can tell you that depending on the case, an old suspension helmet (the typestill fairly commonin 1976) might or might not stay on better than a new padded helmet (dominant fromaround 1980 on). If they are thinking that the new helmets stay on better, which I am not yet willing to accept, then maybe that is a reason they are letting them slide. I can also say that a 2 point strap is much more comfortable than a 4 pointer, if your helmet fits right. Often, there is little pressure on your chin when you have a correctly fitted helmet. Either way, it is an interesting phenomena, especially when considering the no-tolerance for rule breaking policy of the modern NCAA.

Have any of you noticed things such as this, or any other players wearing "non-standard" equipment? Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Well, I now have definitive proof showing that Tyler Palko does indeed wear a 2 point chinstrap as I thought. It is a modified hard cup model, different from the modified standard type Riddell soft cup that Zac Champion has. Now if I just had a pic of Zac and that Houston punter!

Palko

Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I just looked through the pictures of Zac Champion and it looks as though he switched to the 2 pointer after the 7th game of the season, against Utah State. Ever since the North Texas game, and possibly the San Jose State game which they have no pictures of, he has been wearing it. Can you believe their website charges $60 to download one of their pictures? Unreal! Maybe when they play New Mexico State next week they will put some free pictures up. The 4 pointer he was wearing must have been irritating him or something. It was a different design as well, like the one Tyler Palko currently wears.

 

[Bronk]

Reb, I like your facination with equipment. I have one as well but more with uniform design ...

Anyway, you stated that the suspension helmet was still commonly used in 1976. I was playing high school ball that year, and I can tell you that the suspension hat was long gone by then. We were wearing waterpack helmets in those days (along with 4-point chinstraps), and before that, we were wearing full interrior padded helmets. The suspension helmet was going out by the late 1960s.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

It's good to know that I'm not alone on the equipment Bronk!

I could have been a little more accurate about the years when padded helmets took over, but I was thinking more along the lines of colleges and pro teams switching to them as opposed to high schools. Yes, high schools were using padded helmets by that time, and some with fluid or air cells as well. By that time, high schools were usually the first to get newer style helmets, although this wasn't always the case. There were several manufacturers of helmets in the 60s and 70s that aren't around anymore and they were making padded helmets before 1970. Archie Manning used a really nice MacGregor fully leather padded model in 1970. The biggest brand, Riddell, were the ones who started the move to padded helmets when they came out with the Micro-Fit model in 1970, which was the first truly modern padded helmet using different kinds of cells and padding inserts. Until 1978, there were at least 2 different kinds of Riddell suspension helmets on the market. After that, you would have a hard time finding one. Most colleges and pro teams of the 1970s didn't want to spend a lot of money on new equipment each year and usually bought the cheapest things they could, so suspension hats stayed around longer there than they did at most high schools. They also didn't have to pass strict recertification tests as they do now. Another reason they lasted a long time is that players, especially pros, didn't like adjusting to the added weight of padded helmets and kept wearing suspension models through the early 80s. There were several suspension/padded hybrid designs that were in common use during the mid-70s though, and a lot of NFL and college players wore these for many years. Thats why I said padded helmets didn't really take over until around 1980. At the high school level though, there had been enough time for most schools to update their helmets at least once by 1976 since the introduction of the Micro-Fit 6 years earlier. As strange as it seems, high schools were more worried about safety than colleges or pro teams and were quicker at changing to the different padded models. Anyway, I hope that clears it up a little better. By the way, during the 1990-91 year, I wore a Riddell air cell helmet that was made in 1976. I went to a very rural and poor school that had all kinds of old helmets for the junior high players to wear, including Nokona's. The high school helmets were almost new though. We used to go into the high school locker room and look at them wishing for one.

 

[Bronk]

Wow. You do know your stuff. Interesting.

We wore MacGregors at Robert E. Lee High School in Baytown. As a result, I could always spot a McGregor made skullbucket from way off. They had this nice high curviture in the back that exposed the rear head pad.

I made varsity my junior season and during two-a-days I had my helmet split from the earhole to the crown. I had to leave the pratice field with a manager and go up into the equipment room. While the manager was looking for a helmet that would fit, I came across a Dungard facemask and had him attach it to the helmet. This was the result:

When the season was over, I wrote my name on some of the cells inside the helmet and made absoloutely sure that I was re-issued THAT helmet in both the spring and next summer for the start of fall workouts. That kind of devotion for a piece of equipment from a high school kid, I thought, was a bit extreme. Then I discovered that many pros refused to change helmets through a 10-year career.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Nice picture and momento Bronk, and you are absolutely right about equipment loyalty! A bunch of pros wore antiquated pieces for years, often until retirement. The last vestiges we see of this in the present day NFL are with veteran kicker's facemasks and 2 point chinstraps still being preferred. Much like the racial practices of the league, even these small acts of non-conformity are being relegated to the history books, as the single bar facemasks and direct mount Dungard masks such as yours have been illegal for several years now. The only way guys like Morten Andersen and Scott Player can use theirs are because of a grandfather clause, which to me proves that it really isn't that big of a safety issue as the NFL makes it out to be. 2 point chinstraps are still legal, but for how much longer? There are several examples I could give you of pros who wore odd or old pieces of equipment. The one that sticks out in my mind more than any is that of Walter Payton. He wore a Wilson leather padded helmet throughout his whole career. Wilson quit making helmets in the early 80s because of high insurance costs, so the Bears bought a bunch of them for Payton to use. An equipment manager ruined one in a washer and several others were split or were damaged and tossed aside. When he retired, there was just one or two left. I figured I'd include this picture of your Dungard DG120 as a modern reproduction. You can get one for the low price of $100.

By the way, I like the look of those MacGregors too.

I have a Nokona youth helmet made in 1979 that has padding and suspension and it has an odd facemask too. Its like a 2 bar Riddell with a center bar attached like yours. I have thought about making a replica college helmet out of it, but it is cracked and dinged up.





Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Bronk, Here's a picture of my Sibley (Louisiana) High School Raiders helmet, well, actually a replica of it.

I found a brand new 1993 AIR helmet that had been in storage and in the correct red color on ebay a while back and I couldn't resist. I bought decals just like our old ones and a new facemask and low mount chinstrap like I had, so now I have one just like the one I wore in 1993 and 1994. By the way, we were the Indian kind of Raiders, not the Confederate kind. You know what they say, you can't always get what you want.

Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Bronk]

That's a pretty tough looking helmet. it has so many bars on it it looks like the plumbing for an apartment complex!

I've managed to scrounge a few old football helmets some of which I fixed up and now sit on the bookshelf of my oldest son's room. The rest languish in the garage, waiting for me to refirbish them.

When I played, I was always a fiend about my equipment. I had to have certain things or I just didn't feel right. Had to have (wrist) sweatbands and elbow pads and I HAD to wear Puma Rockets. Baytown Jr. High and REL had a grab bag of Spot-Bilt shoes at which I thumbed my nose. Since I first started to play ball I wore Puma Rockets with the white soles and never stopped. Once I hit size 11 I had to find them in Houston but I managed to wrangle a pair.

Edited by: Bronk

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Uh oh Bronk, the pic didn't work. Yeah, I know the facemask was intricate. Actually, that may not be the exact one I used. To be honest, because of its intricacy, I don't remember exactly what it was like, but I know that one is close. My next project is finding a white Riddell PAC-3 from the mid-70s to make a replica of my junior high helmet, but that may be a while in happening.Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[backrow]

that's the facemask that i used as well, Don.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

backrow, did you mean Bronk?

 

[backrow]

no, your Raiders helmet.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

ah, ok. My classmates always wanted to have my facemask because they thought it looked tough. What years did you play backrow?

 

[KG2422]

We were the Raiders too Reb. Our school colors were columbia blue and red, like the Houston Oilers. I wore a quarterback's facemask so I could see as well as possible. My avatar is of an away game.

Hey Bronk, I was in Baytown last friday watching Nederland and #4 Lamar Consolidated play each other. Micah Mosley rushed for 258 yds. in a losing effort. Small world.... Edited by: KG2422

 

[backrow]

ah, ok. My classmates always wanted to have my facemask because they thought it looked tough. What years did you play backrow?

late nineties. incidentally, i had the very same mask when i played a little bit here in Madrid last year, some of the equipment these boys here have dates back to 80s!

PS the helmet i used was also AirEdited by: backrow

 

[Colonel_Reb]

When I was in Junior High, we had Bike's, Nokona's, Riddell's, and probably a Wilson and Schutt or two. We had old castoff stuff from the high school teams. I remember seeing helmets made in the early 70s between 90-92. The high school team I played for was brand new and got all new helmets in 1992 when they organized the team. So mine was a 1992 Riddell, but there were a bunch of AIR's as well. I never liked any of my helmets much. They never fit quite right.

Backrow, the facemask on my helmet in that pic is the same one Urlacher uses. Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Bronk]

KG: Stallworth Stadium, site of my high school gridiron glories! I go back to Baytown from time to time. What HS did you play for? They had a great color combo.

 

[KG2422]

KG: Stallworth Stadium, site of my high school gridiron glories! I go back to Baytown from time to time. What HS did you play for? They had a great color combo.

Lumberton High School. It's just north of Beaumont. Yeah, I really like the design of Stallworth Stadium. I don't really care for turf though.

 

[Bronk]

Oh, I have been through Lumberton several times. They always seemed to be having some kind of parade when I drive through there.

Stallworth is unique in that it has that dugout beneath the stands that allows you to truly see games at "field level."

I saw their new field turf, why don't you like it?

 

[backrow]

Col, clean up your pms, lol!

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I cleaned them up and now have room for more pm's. I've been so busy I didn't realize it was full. Hopefully I can avoid it from now on. It was cool to see Palko again last week wearing his 2 pointer.

Bronk, you mentioned uniforms as being your area of interest. Do you have any pictures from specific teams that would allow you to make a recent timeline of changes? Just curious, as I am into uniforms too, at least in regards to a couple of teams.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Here's some LSU helmet factoids for you. We have mentioned that LSU was the last SEC team to integrate in 1973 before, so I thought I'd post a picture of the helmet the Fighting Tigers used from 1972-76.
Here's the standard repop.

Here's a reproduction of Bert Jones' lid.

Here is a picture of the 1997 Independence Bowl helmet. That was the only game LSU ever used these in. I was there and have some pictures of Abram Booty catching a TD pass right in front of me with this one on. I also have some slides I have to get made into pictures. Maybe I can get them scanned and post them over the Christmas break.

Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Ole Miss uniform changes between 1994 and the present.



Prior to the 1995 season, red and white Ole Miss jersey shoulder stripes had no navy stripe outlines to them, as seen here in a 1962 Cotton Bowl program picture. Besides material changes, Ole Miss uniform looks changes little between the late 1950s and 1999. These were the visiting jerseys.

This is the 1970 All-American offensive team. Of course, besides a lot of white faces, you can see Archie's jersey.

Fast forward to 1989. Even in this black and white pic you can see the big number jerseys with lack of stripe outlines, and the traditional 2 stripe pants worn by Chucky Mullins.

John Avery showing his navy jersey stripe and number outlines in the 1996 Egg Bowl-I was there.

Here's a pic from the 1999 Independence Bowl that clearly show the outlines.

Here's the front view of the numbers with outlines in Eli's 1999 Freshman picture.

As far as I know, no blue jerseys have ever had outline stripes on them, and they didn't use the blue jerseys from 1994 until the 1999 Alabama game, which I attended. Here's DE Shane Elam getting the best of Andrew Zow while wearing his blue jersey in 99.

In 2000, Ole Miss totally changed their uniforms, the only exception being the helmet, although chinstraps began to be colored Navy instead of the standard white. They switched uniform manufacturers from Russell to Nike as well, thus giving them a different look. Gone were the over the top old shoulder stripes, and along came the 3 stripe pants. The number style was changed as well, with number added on the top of the shoulders as well. Nobody liked the new duds. I was an Ole Miss student that year and it was really sickening.

LB Chad Cook shows off the new, but(t) ugly, duds.

Here's Eli with the same jersey on.

Those threads lasted until the 2002 season, when the shoulder stripes were brought back, as here where Eli shows us the transition, but still with the 3 stripe pants.

The visiting jerseys changed in 2002 as well, to a much better design that matched the new pants. This is WR Bill Flowers.

In 2003, the numbers on the shoulders of the jersey are taken off. Eli shows us the much more 1994 like jerseys. The numbers are still different though, as are the pants.

Kicker Joshua Sheen shows a couple of weeks ago, that the numbers are now the 1999 style, although a bit smaller, and they still have an outline, now red on the blue jerseys. The 3 stripe pants are apparently here to stay, but since I'm not an Ole Miss fan anymore, and since its not the Ole Miss I grew up loving anymore, I'm not too worried about it.

Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I have seen 2 guys wear this facemask in the NFL, so it isn't popular, but I thought I'd post on it because some of you besides myself and Jimmy Chitwood may have seen a Cowboy defender wearing it last night. Anyway, Jimmy, strangely enough, commented that it reminded him of a bulldog. Well, I looked up the model and it is called the Schutt DNA Bulldog! I think its as ugly as homemade sin, but I'm adding this pic because some people want this thread to be about odd equipment as well as old fashioned equipment, and I'm not convinced that its a bad idea, but if you don't like it blame Jimmy Chitwood.

Edited by: Colonel_Reb