Europeans in boxing

[Guest]

Jeffries could'nt beat Jack Johnson in a million years he said so himself after the fight you aren'nt going to question the word of one of your hero's ?.

Well I hate to break this to you, but Johnson himself called Jeffries the greatest fighter of all time, and I know that you wouldn't doubt the word of one of your heroes. Johnson was lucky enough to come around later than Jeff, otherwise we'd have never heard of him.

No he did'nt Jeffries himself said after their fight that he could'nt have beaten Johnson in a 100 years look it up .

 

[Guest]

Johnson would have gotten beat by a host of white fighters. Quarry could have beat him, and Jerry never was champion!

Quarry

 

[Sean]

Jeffries could'nt beat Jack Johnson in a million years he said so himself after the fight you aren'nt going to question the word of one of your hero's ?.

Well I hate to break this to you, but Johnson himself called Jeffries the greatest fighter of all time, and I know that you wouldn't doubt the word of one of your heroes. Johnson was lucky enough to come around later than Jeff, otherwise we'd have never heard of him.

No he did'nt Jeffries himself said after their fight that he could'nt have beaten Johnson in a 100 years look it up .

Well...actually...yes, Johnson did say Jeff was the greatest, and since you will not go look it up for yourself, I have posted th link for you:
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jeff-hi.htm


It is the seventh one down.

And when Jeffris said he couldnt have won, he meant on THAT NIGHT. And yes, Quarry could hav beaten Johnson, after all, Marvin Hart did

 

[Sean]

By the way, godking, there is a good site you should look at, so you can actually find out about Jeffries. Here is an excerpt you might find interesting:

In 1904, when Jeffries was in his prime, Jack Johnson met with him trying to pressure Big Jeff into a title shot. Jeff, knowing the politics of the time, drew the color line. But he told Johnson in dead seriousness, "There's a cellar in the place. 'Tell you what I'll do. I won't meet you in the ring because you got no name and we wouldn't draw flies. But I'll go downstairs with you and lock the door on the inside. The one who comes out with the key will be the champ." Johnson refused and walked out (see McCallum p 12). That's the kind of rugged man Jeffries was though, a real fighter. A boxer, a wrestler, a street-fighter. He could do it all. [End Quote]


Edited by: Sean

 

[Gary]

Johnson was too small and weak to beat Jeffries in a brutal fight.Johnson couldn't take a body shot well,he went to the hospital after the Burns fight because of stomach pain-littleTommy was only 168 lbs. Johnson is politically correct today that is his real claim to fame-For all the talk of his wives and girlfriends.Johnson died childless. There was a big white fighter named Luther McCarty 6'4 205 who had he lived. He died at 21.Would have beat Johnson and Johnson knew it. So instead Jess Willard beat Johnson.

 

[Guest]

Johnson was too small and weak to beat Jeffries in a brutal fight.Johnson couldn't take a body shot well,he went to the hospital after the Burns fight because of stomach pain-littleTommy was only 168 lbs. Johnson is politically correct today that is his real claim to fame-For all the talk of his wives and girlfriends.Johnson died childless. There was a big white fighter named Luther McCarty 6'4 205 who had he lived. He died at 21.Would have beat Johnson and Johnson knew it. So instead Jess Willard beat Johnson.

Luther McCarthy

another half forgotten white hope . Jess Willard beat a 37 year way past his prime Johnson . If his victory is legit so is Johnsons victory over Jeffries.

 

[Guest]

By the way, godking, there is a good site you should look at, so you can actually find out about Jeffries. Here is an excerpt you might find interesting:

In 1904, when Jeffries was in his prime, Jack Johnson met with him trying to pressure Big Jeff into a title shot. Jeff, knowing the politics of the time, drew the color line. But he told Johnson in dead seriousness, "There's a cellar in the place. 'Tell you what I'll do. I won't meet you in the ring because you got no name and we wouldn't draw flies. But I'll go downstairs with you and lock the door on the inside. The one who comes out with the key will be the champ." Johnson refused and walked out (see McCallum p 12). That's the kind of rugged man Jeffries was though, a real fighter. A boxer, a wrestler, a street-fighter. He could do it all. [End Quote]

Jack Johnson said im no cellar fighter and he was right why should he fight in a cellar With Jeffries ??? . The guy was a pro boxer not a streetfigher . Jeffries ducked Jack Johnson in the Ring .

 

[Kaptain]

Jack Johnson being considered one of the greatest of all time is a complete joke and done so only by history revisionists. During his heavy weight championship reign, Johnson knocked out only 3 fighters - all in later rounds - the earliest quickest was a 9th round knockout. He had a string of 4 or 5 years with only one title defense per year befrore being KO'ed by Jess Willard.Johnson was probably the most defensive fighter of all time. He boxing style was a boring - grabbing, holding, and wrestling around with his opponent. His title reign also included several no decisions. He had 14 no decisions and 14 draws.


Ketchel vs. Langford/ No decision. GK, since you don't understand no decisions let me tell you about them . No decisions were common at that time because in many states boxing matches weren't judged. They were decided by only by knockouts. Matches that went the agreed upon distance were no decisions. The belief of who won the fight was left up to the audience and press. Ketchel was determined to have won the fight and was reportedly was easily winning the end of the match. No doubt the crowd could easily determined who the better fighter was.

 

[Kaptain]

As long as were playing "who said who was a better boxer", Joe Louis himself admitted that he would not have been able to beat Rocky even in the prime of his career.Don't youbelieve the words of your hero?

 

[Sean]

By the way, godking, there is a good site you should look at, so you can actually find out about Jeffries. Here is an excerpt you might find interesting:

In 1904, when Jeffries was in his prime, Jack Johnson met with him trying to pressure Big Jeff into a title shot. Jeff, knowing the politics of the time, drew the color line. But he told Johnson in dead seriousness, "There's a cellar in the place. 'Tell you what I'll do. I won't meet you in the ring because you got no name and we wouldn't draw flies. But I'll go downstairs with you and lock the door on the inside. The one who comes out with the key will be the champ." Johnson refused and walked out (see McCallum p 12). That's the kind of rugged man Jeffries was though, a real fighter. A boxer, a wrestler, a street-fighter. He could do it all. [End Quote]

Jack Johnson said im no cellar fighter and he was right why should he fight in a cellar With Jeffries ??? . The guy was a pro boxer not a streetfigher . Jeffries ducked Jack Johnson in the Ring .

Jeffries offered him a title shot right then and there, and Johnson cowered away. It was only when Jeffries was six years out of boxing and well over 300 pounds that he finally got the guts to fight Jeff. And, anyway as I pointed out, Johnson himself rated Jeff the best of all time!

 

[Gary]

Hey Pudding prince-you avoided my question who is the next great black hope?

 

[dkr77]

I recently read about a fight between middleweight Billy Conn and heavyweight Joe Louis. It seems as though Conn boxed the ears off of Louis until he tried to exchange instead of box and was KOed. Anyone know the specifics on this fight and Conns career?

 

[Kaptain]

That fight is considered one of greatest in boxing history. Conn outboxed and outpunched Louis until the 13th round of a scheduled 15. I've seen rounds of this fight on national TV or cable (can't remember). Conn was much quicker than Louis - even on the inside. He didn't box and run as you might think. He actually was able to land many punches from the inside. He told his corner he was going to knock-out Louis and went out for the 13th and tried. They exchanged punches and Conn was unable to hurt Louis. He continued to try up until he hit the canvas. Not a smart move but it made for a great fight. A rematch was scheduled soon after but Conn broke his hand in a fight with his father in-law. He fought Louis much later (6 years I think) but was not the same fighter and lost easily. On one of my earlier post on page 4, I give a web site that tells conns story.

 

[Guest]

That fight is considered one of greatest in boxing history. Conn outboxed and outpunched Louis until the 13th round of a scheduled 15. I've seen rounds of this fight on national TV or cable (can't remember). Conn was much quicker than Louis - even on the inside. He didn't box and run as you might think. He actually was able to land many punches from the inside. He told his corner he was going to knock-out Louis and went out for the 13th and tried. They exchanged punches and Conn was unable to hurt Louis. He continued to try up until he hit the canvas. Not a smart move but it made for a great fight. A rematch was scheduled soon after but Conn broke his hand in a fight with his father in-law. He fought Louis much later (6 years I think) but was not the same fighter and lost easily. On one of my earlier post on page 4, I give a web site that tells conns story.

Conn still lost and P4P was not better then SRR.

 

[Guest]

By the way, godking, there is a good site you should look at, so you can actually find out about Jeffries. Here is an excerpt you might find interesting:

In 1904, when Jeffries was in his prime, Jack Johnson met with him trying to pressure Big Jeff into a title shot. Jeff, knowing the politics of the time, drew the color line. But he told Johnson in dead seriousness, "There's a cellar in the place. 'Tell you what I'll do. I won't meet you in the ring because you got no name and we wouldn't draw flies. But I'll go downstairs with you and lock the door on the inside. The one who comes out with the key will be the champ." Johnson refused and walked out (see McCallum p 12). That's the kind of rugged man Jeffries was though, a real fighter. A boxer, a wrestler, a street-fighter. He could do it all. [End Quote]

Jack Johnson said im no cellar fighter and he was right why should he fight in a cellar With Jeffries ??? . The guy was a pro boxer not a streetfigher . Jeffries ducked Jack Johnson in the Ring .

Jeffries offered him a title shot right then and there, and Johnson cowered away. It was only when Jeffries was six years out of boxing and well over 300 pounds that he finally got the guts to fight Jeff. And, anyway as I pointed out, Johnson himself rated Jeff the best of all time!

What titleshot dumbass the title does not change hands in an UNOFFICIAL fight.


Jack Johnson Toyed with Jeff and finally destroyed him when they eventually did fight an official match.

 

[Kaptain]

Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion. why don't you answer the tough questions people have been asking you to answer. Who is the great black hope? What do you have to say of your overrating of Lewis and Jack Johnson?

 

[Kaptain]

The Boxing writers association voted him the greatest lightheavy weight of all time. The Associated press voted him in the top ten fighters of the century. If the liberal media gave him these awards that says a lot. Strange many people have not heard of Conn but we hear of the Welterweight great SRR instead.

 

[Guest]

The Boxing writers association voted him the greatest lightheavy weight of all time. The Associated press voted him in the top ten fighters of the century. If the liberal media gave him these awards that says a lot. Strange many people have not heard of Conn but we hear of the Welterweight great SRR instead.

Pleazze everybody who is is not a casual fan of boxing has heard of Conn. And yes Conn was an alltime great but SRR was the best P4P of alltime. Conn was'nt even the best LHW in my opinion Gene Tunney Archie Moore Micheal Spinks Bob Foster where all better at LHW then Conn.


And at WW SRR was truly the best of alltime SRR did not lose at WW in91 fights thats more fights then Conn had.


And no Lewisis not overrated neither is Jack Johnson.


Lewis had on of the best carreers of alltime


Johnson was the best Defensive fighter of alltime and him being able to win the title in the times that he lived in is a pretty big acomplishment in its own right.Edited by: godking

 

[kevin]

most people believe that willie pip was the best defense fighter of all time.

 

[Guest]

most people believe that willie pip was the best defense fighter of all time.

Thats Pep and you are right Pep was the best overall Jack was the best at HW in defense

 

[Sean]

By the way, godking, there is a good site you should look at, so you can actually find out about Jeffries. Here is an excerpt you might find interesting:

In 1904, when Jeffries was in his prime, Jack Johnson met with him trying to pressure Big Jeff into a title shot. Jeff, knowing the politics of the time, drew the color line. But he told Johnson in dead seriousness, "There's a cellar in the place. 'Tell you what I'll do. I won't meet you in the ring because you got no name and we wouldn't draw flies. But I'll go downstairs with you and lock the door on the inside. The one who comes out with the key will be the champ." Johnson refused and walked out (see McCallum p 12). That's the kind of rugged man Jeffries was though, a real fighter. A boxer, a wrestler, a street-fighter. He could do it all. [End Quote]

Jack Johnson said im no cellar fighter and he was right why should he fight in a cellar With Jeffries ??? . The guy was a pro boxer not a streetfigher . Jeffries ducked Jack Johnson in the Ring .

Jeffries offered him a title shot right then and there, and Johnson cowered away. It was only when Jeffries was six years out of boxing and well over 300 pounds that he finally got the guts to fight Jeff. And, anyway as I pointed out, Johnson himself rated Jeff the best of all time!

What titleshot dumbass the title does not change hands in an UNOFFICIAL fight.


Jack Johnson Toyed with Jeff and finally destroyed him when they eventually did fight an official match.

Well, lets see if I can explain this to you. Jeffries was the champ, he told Johnson they couldnt fight in a ring, because no one would come to see a black in a title fight. Jeffries then offered to fight Johnson in his cellar, and the winner would be the champion. Comprende?


And Jeffries was old when they fought, you know, the being old excuse counts for more than just Louis.


IEverything you say is based on opinion. You've yet to show a fact yet!

 

[Kaptain]

No, GD wrong again. Most casual fans only know Conn as the guy who almost beat Louis. I suspect you fit in that category as you were quick to rip on him despite his accomplishments at lightheavyweight.Willie Pep is another guy who is little known to today's casual fan - in comparison to SRR who everybody knows. I thought all-time greatest list meant what they actually did in the ring - not their political impact of the time (Jack Johnson). In that case I vote for Vitali Klitschco for the greatest of all time for marking the return of the Europeans/Russians to dominance in the HW division. By the way, weak defense of Lewis's record.


Again, who is your great black hope?

 

[Gary]

Conn was better than Robinson.Tunney was a better defensive boxer then Johnson-but Johnson was a very good defensive boxer Choyenski taught Johnson well.Dempsey would have walked right though Johnson however.Clay had some good Irish blood without that he would have been like Buster Mathis.

 

[Sean]

The Boxing writers association voted him the greatest lightheavy weight of all time. The Associated press voted him in the top ten fighters of the century. If the liberal media gave him these awards that says a lot. Strange many people have not heard of Conn but we hear of the Welterweight great SRR instead.

Pleazze everybody who is is not a casual fan of boxing has heard of Conn. And yes Conn was an alltime great but SRR was the best P4P of alltime. Conn was'nt even the best LHW in my opinion Gene Tunney Archie Moore Micheal Spinks Bob Foster where all better at LHW then Conn.


And at WW SRR was truly the best of alltime SRR did not lose at WW in91 fights thats more fights then Conn had.


And no Lewisis not overrated neither is Jack Johnson.


Lewis had on of the best carreers of alltime


Johnson was the best Defensive fighter of alltime and him being able to win the title in the times that he lived in is a pretty big acomplishment in its own right.

So since Johnson won the title in what some consider a biased era, that makes him the greatest? In thatcase, Klitschko should also be number one, since he won the title in a very biased era.


Lewis is not overrated, neither is Johnson? Where are your facts? Rahman beat Lewis, MCall beat Lewis. True he beat them in the return, but if he's so great, why did he lose at all? Same with Johnson. It only took three rounds for 160 pound Choynski to KO him. Had it not been for Choynski teaching him to fight in jail, no one would have ever heard of him. Besides, its already been shown that he didnt exactly fight the greatest crop of fighters. They were great middleweights, great heavyweight years out of their prime, and one or two average fighters.

 

[Guest]

No, GD wrong again. Most casual fans only know Conn as the guy who almost beat Louis. I suspect you fit in that category as you were quick to rip on him despite his accomplishments at lightheavyweight.Willie Pep is another guy who is little known to today's casual fan - in comparison to SRR who everybody knows. I thought all-time greatest list meant what they actually did in the ring - not their political impact of the time (Jack Johnson). In that case I vote for Vitali Klitschco for the greatest of all time for marking the return of the Europeans/Russians to dominance in the HW division. By the way, weak defense of Lewis's record.


Again, who is your great black hope?

Compare the records of Conn and Pep to SRR and then coma back to tell me why you think they are greater