White Shogun
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JGNYC said:
So, the 40 times are bogus, the Wonderlic scores aren't accurate and don't mean anything, what else? Why in the hell do they even have a combine?
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So, the 40 times are bogus, the Wonderlic scores aren't accurate and don't mean anything, what else? Why in the hell do they even have a combine?
It's funny how the 40 times are usually touted as incredibly meaningful (like when supposedly sophisticated businessmen throw extra millions of dollars at someone based on one tenth of a second), but they are almost simulaneously said, by the same people, to be overrated. They always use slower black guys like Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith as examples of why the 40 times are not imporant, but then in the next breath they gush over some black TE who never produced in college but ran a 4.5 at the combine. However, when the smoke clears, whether the "experts" say the 40 times and other combine numbers are important or not doesn't really matter. Either way, they still pick blacks over whites. When a black RB or WR runs a 4.4, he is a "world class sprinter," a "playmaker" and a "stud." When one of the handful of white RBs or WRs runs a 4.4., he has "deceptive speed" and will be earmarked for the slot, special teams or kick return duty. It wouldn't matter if somehow more white college RBs than black RBs showed up the combine one year; they would still pick the black RBs first (regardless of head-to-head combine numbers) and would still not give the white RBs any chance at starting in the NFL. We simply can't win.
Bear-Arms
Mentor
Was this posted yet?
INDIANAPOLIS - An otherwise standard NFL scouting combine took an odd twist Saturday and Sunday night, as conflicting information circulated about the Wonderlic test score of Texas quarterback Vince Young.
Late Saturday, two league sources present at the RCA Dome passed on a tip that spread like wildfire - Young had scored a six on his Wonderlic, the 50-question examination that's administered with a 12-minute clock and aimed at measuring an athlete's general intelligence. A score of six would be remarkably low for any combine invitee, but particularly for a quarterback - a position where most teams set their bar for scores in the high teens or low 20s.
But by Sunday afternoon, Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly insisted that Young's supposed score was erroneous.
"I have been told that's an inaccurate report from a very good source," Casserly said during a press conference with the media Sunday. "... Yes, I have been told it was inaccurate, by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it. Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it."
Casserly later said his source was National Scouting, the service that organizes the combine, administers the Wonderlic test and tallies the scores. Two other high-ranking sources in NFL front offices also disputed the rumors, and a third wasn't even aware of Young's supposed score. Even Mike Mayock, who is the draft expert for the league-run NFL Network, cast doubt on the report.
"I've been told by the NFL that it is not true," Mayock said.
Team officials aren't scheduled to get the Wonderlic scores until next week, but the rumor simply underscores the kind of combine Young has had.
He came into the week facing questions about his ability to adapt to an NFL offense, and now he might have lost his foothold as the No. 2 quarterback in the draft. Not only has the Wonderlic rumor cast a shadow - and you can bet Young's true score (whatever it is) will become public when teams get the results - but Jay Cutler's strong performance in Indy has elevated the Vanderbilt quarterback to the top of some draft boards, too.
"(Cutler) made a good case, and now we have to see how (USC's) Matt Leinart and Vince Young respond," one general manager said. "But don't forget - Cutler's going to have a pro day, too. Now he's got two chances to wow people instead of one, and I think that gives him a little bit of an edge right now.
"I know this - Vince Young really would have helped himself out if he had done his (drills) here. Maybe people would be talking about how great he looked instead of all this Wonderlic nonsense."
Source: Yahoo
INDIANAPOLIS - An otherwise standard NFL scouting combine took an odd twist Saturday and Sunday night, as conflicting information circulated about the Wonderlic test score of Texas quarterback Vince Young.
Late Saturday, two league sources present at the RCA Dome passed on a tip that spread like wildfire - Young had scored a six on his Wonderlic, the 50-question examination that's administered with a 12-minute clock and aimed at measuring an athlete's general intelligence. A score of six would be remarkably low for any combine invitee, but particularly for a quarterback - a position where most teams set their bar for scores in the high teens or low 20s.
But by Sunday afternoon, Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly insisted that Young's supposed score was erroneous.
"I have been told that's an inaccurate report from a very good source," Casserly said during a press conference with the media Sunday. "... Yes, I have been told it was inaccurate, by a source good enough for me to stand up here and quote it. Otherwise I wouldn't get up here and just say it."
Casserly later said his source was National Scouting, the service that organizes the combine, administers the Wonderlic test and tallies the scores. Two other high-ranking sources in NFL front offices also disputed the rumors, and a third wasn't even aware of Young's supposed score. Even Mike Mayock, who is the draft expert for the league-run NFL Network, cast doubt on the report.
"I've been told by the NFL that it is not true," Mayock said.
Team officials aren't scheduled to get the Wonderlic scores until next week, but the rumor simply underscores the kind of combine Young has had.
He came into the week facing questions about his ability to adapt to an NFL offense, and now he might have lost his foothold as the No. 2 quarterback in the draft. Not only has the Wonderlic rumor cast a shadow - and you can bet Young's true score (whatever it is) will become public when teams get the results - but Jay Cutler's strong performance in Indy has elevated the Vanderbilt quarterback to the top of some draft boards, too.
"(Cutler) made a good case, and now we have to see how (USC's) Matt Leinart and Vince Young respond," one general manager said. "But don't forget - Cutler's going to have a pro day, too. Now he's got two chances to wow people instead of one, and I think that gives him a little bit of an edge right now.
"I know this - Vince Young really would have helped himself out if he had done his (drills) here. Maybe people would be talking about how great he looked instead of all this Wonderlic nonsense."
Source: Yahoo
White Shogun said:
Found at another site.
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<DIV style="FONT-STYLE: italic">Vince Young was a junior in college. That means he's passed THREE college level composition classes, 2 classes of laboratory science and at least College Algebra. Yeah right. </TD></TR></T></TABLE>
1. The athletic department has a full time staff that steer jocks to instructors that never flunk athletes.
2. Typical Jock transcript
Theory of Football I = A
Theory of Weight Training I = A
Theory of Coaching I = A
English = D
Math = D
Biology = Withdraw
Theory of Football II = A
Theory of Weight Training II = A
Theory of Coaching II = A
English = D
Math = Withdraw
Sociology = B
G
Guest
Guest
Anyone know the 40 times of Eric Smith and Scott Ware? I cant find them anywhere. I thought Jaxson Appel was invited but I guess he was not.
pittbc7 said:
Well, he supposedly ran a 4.62 going into college. I assume that was hand-timed and inaccurate, or else he hasn't gotten any faster over the last four years. I didn't expect much, but I was hoping he would at least get a 4.55. That number would've "looked better" on a superficial level. And we know how superficial these people are. Oh well. As one of the NFL Network commentators said, this reinforces the perception of him as a possession receiver. Right or wrong, that's what everyone in the league thinks. Our superstar collegiate receiver will most likely fade into anonymity in the NFL.
Edited by: JD074
From DraftDaddy.com and NFL.com:
A.J. Hawk
4.57 sec 40yd, 24 reps on bench, 40" vertical (6th among LBs), 3 cone drill 6.82 sec (3rd among LBs), short shuttle 3.96 sec (1st among LBs and faster than all but one of the DBs and WRs), long shuttle 11.06 (1st among LBs).
What's amazing is that he is 248 lbs and a lot of the guys he is competing against are 20-30 lbs lighter. What an athlete!!
One thing that I am noticing throughout the combine is the white guys do quite well in the agility tests (shuttle and 3 cone drills) which measure their quickness and ability to change directions. Makes you wonder why the black guys that run superfast 40s alot of times aren't very good in the agility drills.Edited by: SteveB
A.J. Hawk
4.57 sec 40yd, 24 reps on bench, 40" vertical (6th among LBs), 3 cone drill 6.82 sec (3rd among LBs), short shuttle 3.96 sec (1st among LBs and faster than all but one of the DBs and WRs), long shuttle 11.06 (1st among LBs).
What's amazing is that he is 248 lbs and a lot of the guys he is competing against are 20-30 lbs lighter. What an athlete!!
One thing that I am noticing throughout the combine is the white guys do quite well in the agility tests (shuttle and 3 cone drills) which measure their quickness and ability to change directions. Makes you wonder why the black guys that run superfast 40s alot of times aren't very good in the agility drills.Edited by: SteveB
G
Guest
Guest
Jerry Rice ran a 4.6...40's really dont mean anything for a WR. If a team drafts Mike Hass he will get a chance to prove himself and I am confident in his abilities. He is a smart WR and will exploit holes in defenses and prove he is worthy to be a starting WR in this league.
white tornado
Mentor
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A safty from texas ran a 4.85 so at least Hass can beat him.
Edited by: white tornado
Depressing results for the most part at the combine. Everything went according to caste form as the speedsters were all black. Did any white player run a sub 4.5? I think the pro days might feature some fast guys like Soelberg of BYU and Gregory at Syracuse and a few others. But we cannot avoid the facts. Everything is still at a rot level. Until white skill athletes start tearing up the 40 at the combine I am afraid we will all still be living in our caves.
Which isn't to slight the good players who showed up at the combine. A J Hawk? Who wouldn't want him. And Ryan Lacasse of Syracuse ran a 4.5 40 which is real good for a DE. And a few others ran pretty well but overall I feel sick. I am so sick of this trend. When are white athletes going to realize that running speed is the most premium area in sports? Take a gander at high school track and field sprinting trends and you will realize most whites have all but given up.
Which isn't to slight the good players who showed up at the combine. A J Hawk? Who wouldn't want him. And Ryan Lacasse of Syracuse ran a 4.5 40 which is real good for a DE. And a few others ran pretty well but overall I feel sick. I am so sick of this trend. When are white athletes going to realize that running speed is the most premium area in sports? Take a gander at high school track and field sprinting trends and you will realize most whites have all but given up.
Your right sunshine, the 40 yard dash is the combine equivilant to the home run in basball, the dunk in basketball, and the TD in football. That's why white guys stil get respect in baseball becuase they can hit it out of the park. It's those stats that get the glory and fame of the media and then the public, just like the 40 at the combine. I mean look at what a great 40 time did to Matt Jones. It practically shot him up to the 1st Rd. Before Jones even ran that 4.37 40 I know myself and alot of other people didn't even know who he was. Though because of that 40 and all the attention and media hype it drew, it made Jones that much more high profile. In the combine its all about the 40 yard dash and thats it.
Whites more than held their own in the 40 at LB, DL and OL. Of course you guys are right that it's the "speed" positions that people notice. Hinkel ran a very respectable 4.50. Bloom would have done better than 4.49 if he'd had time to prepare. But all the other whites who might have put up sub-4.50 times weren't invited. Bergeron, plus just about all our best safeties and the few CBs we have weren't allowed to mingle amongst God's Chose Athletes at the RCA Dome.
David Anderson ran a 4.54 (finally found it!) and the Bronocs are interested in him:
[url]http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRM N_23918_4504725,00.html[/url]
[url]http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRM N_23918_4504725,00.html[/url]
hedgehog
Mentor
I also read that the Bronco's were interested in Jeremy Bloom. Maybe the coach is going to experiment with a bunch of white receivers again. Unfortunately I think Anderson will end up a special teams demon, as the draft gets closer I expect comparisons to Steve Tasker.
reclaimsocal
Guru
I think its interesting to note that another caste position is starting to push Whites down the draft board, offensive Tackle.
Eric Winston, Andrew Whitworth, Jeremy Trueblood & Darryn Colledge were all going backwards on draft boards pre-combine while guys like Winston Justice, Marcus McNeill, Jonathan Scott and Rashad Butler were all moving up. Its already taking hold in the NFL where the gold standard for Offensive Tackles has been Ogden, Pace and Walter Jones regardless of their play.
If I'm an NFL GM and I need a solid OT prospect in this draft I wait until the end of the 2nd or early 3rd and take Whitworth or Trueblood because in a few years the aforementioned Blacks will be busts.
Eric Winston, Andrew Whitworth, Jeremy Trueblood & Darryn Colledge were all going backwards on draft boards pre-combine while guys like Winston Justice, Marcus McNeill, Jonathan Scott and Rashad Butler were all moving up. Its already taking hold in the NFL where the gold standard for Offensive Tackles has been Ogden, Pace and Walter Jones regardless of their play.
If I'm an NFL GM and I need a solid OT prospect in this draft I wait until the end of the 2nd or early 3rd and take Whitworth or Trueblood because in a few years the aforementioned Blacks will be busts.
white lightning
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David Anderson and Jeremy Bloom both playing for the Broncos would actually make me watch them again.I haven't enjoyed watching them much since J.Elway left.
Good point about the offensive lineman.Hopefully this is only a temporary trend.These guys are so overrated and given star status despite being very mediocre players.
Good point about the offensive lineman.Hopefully this is only a temporary trend.These guys are so overrated and given star status despite being very mediocre players.
pittbc7 said:
I am confident in Hass, but not in the Caste System that screws talented white athletes at every turn. The Caste System doesn't want "smart" white players, it wants fast black ones (heck, even slow ones.)
Thanks for posting Anderson's 40 time, Don. I was going to ask about that. 4.54 is solid, not mind-blowing, but solid. The difference between 4.62 and 4.54 may be trivial in reality, but as we all know, it's not about reality. It's about perception. And Caste System perceives a white WR who runs a 4.6 40 as "slow."
G
Guest
Guest
Can anyone post Eric Smith and Scott Ware's 40 times...i cant find them anywhere
Jaxon Appel, the Texas A&M safety who should have been invited to the Combine but wasn't, ran a 4.54 40 at A&M's Pro Day. Here's how DraftDaddy describes Appel:
"We've always thought very highly of Appel, who was clearly one of the better college safeties in America the last few seasons. 344 career tackles and 11 career interceptions is outstanding production. Pound per pound, Appel is as tough as they come and he'll play through injuries.....The knock on Appel has been his speed and size (5' 11", 200), but if yesterday's showing is any indication, he is faster than most expected he would be and no one should question his toughness.....Yesterday's workouts may have put him in a position to be drafted in the latter rounds. At the very least, it gives him a chance as a very high priority free agent."
"We've always thought very highly of Appel, who was clearly one of the better college safeties in America the last few seasons. 344 career tackles and 11 career interceptions is outstanding production. Pound per pound, Appel is as tough as they come and he'll play through injuries.....The knock on Appel has been his speed and size (5' 11", 200), but if yesterday's showing is any indication, he is faster than most expected he would be and no one should question his toughness.....Yesterday's workouts may have put him in a position to be drafted in the latter rounds. At the very least, it gives him a chance as a very high priority free agent."
White Shogun
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All that praise... to "give him a chance as a very high priority free agent."
Why, thank you!
Why, thank you!
DraftDaddy undoubtedly knows how the NFL works and is being realistic. All the other sites and experts in the NFL Draft Industry will have Appel as solid water boy material and no more.
G
Guest
Guest
Hey Don, did u check out the little piece on Nick Turnbull? He is a prime example of the caste system. On DD they quoted on scout saying something along the lines that he was suprised Turnbull did not go to a major universtiy like Miami.
Regarding Appel, the guy is a player and warrior. I believe he played all year injured and still put up good numbers. I hope some team takes a chance on him. Scott Ware, Eric Smith,Reed Doughty and maybe Tunrbull are the only other DB's i can think of that have a chance of getting drafted. Than again it is like that every year pretty much.
Regarding Appel, the guy is a player and warrior. I believe he played all year injured and still put up good numbers. I hope some team takes a chance on him. Scott Ware, Eric Smith,Reed Doughty and maybe Tunrbull are the only other DB's i can think of that have a chance of getting drafted. Than again it is like that every year pretty much.
pittbc7 said:
Pitt, I read and hear these quotes a lot. I'm sure you do too. These guys are just playing dumb or else they're incredibly naive.
The Combine sure didn't want white safeties or cornerbacks, which is going to make it tough on all of them to get much of a chance in the NFL. Same old same old. . .