Draft

[SteveB]

SteveB, are you skeptical of that 4.33 time, or do you think it's legit?

Well, here how I see it. I know that in high school, Bush was a 10.6-10.7 100 meter sprinter. Based on past times, that would indicate a 4.4-4.5 second 40 time. I can't really say one way or another since I wasn't there, but yes, I am skeptical. Maybe he got faster in college, but I am not convinced. Tye Hill and Nate Soelberg are both great track sprinters with 10.4-10.5 100 meter speed and they clocked about the same time as Bush. Also, knowing that Zbikowski and Golden were able to run him down in a football game would tell me that they have equivalent speed, but their 40 times aren't 4.33 sec.

 

[lumsdenpower]

Justin Wyatt os a black cornerback who will draft..
He rans a 4.74 on the forty yards ..If a white conrnerback ran that time never he will get draft..

 

[SteveB]

I predicted in another thread a few months ago that Young would run a 4.6 if he ran at the combine, so I wasn't far off. My next prediction is that Reggie Bush runs a 4.48 at his pro day. It will also be a shock to the "experts" who say he is the fastest man in college football.

Well, I'll have to eat my words. Bush ran a 4.33 at the USC Pro Day. "Unathletic" Matt Leinart had a 37" vertical jump. Not bad.

It seems that there is some inconsistencies in the timing at the USC Pro Day. Makes you wonder if there is some foul play going on:

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3673241

Tailback Reggie Bush and safety Darnell Bing drew cheers for their 40-yard dash times during Sunday's Pro Day workouts at USC, but those marks are not being used by NFL teams for draft preparations.

Bush ran the 40 in 4.33 seconds, according to the electronic-timing system used at Cromwell Field while Bing ran it in 4.53 seconds.

NFL teams, who hand-timed the races, gave Bush times ranging from 4.41 to 4.44 while Bing was listed at 4.61.

"The NFL is not going to go by what was said over the loudspeakers," said an NFL coach who asked not to be identified.

"That might have been to make the crowd happy."

NFL scouts and coaches hand-timed the 40 times then gathered together to compare marks and agree on a time. Bush's time is considered irrelevant since the Houston Texans are expected to make him the No. 1 pick.

 

[JGNYC]

Reggis Bush is very fast.
He ran a 10.42 as a junior in HS to finish 2nd at the California HS Championship.
Matt Bruno won that race in 10.40.

 

[JGNYC]

correction:
Reggie Bush did run 10.42 as a HS junior, and did finish 2nd at the state meet...but he ran that time in the prelims, not the finals.

 

[Don Wassall]

This year's version of Maurice Clarett may be RB LenDale White of USC, who has the all-too common bad attitude found among affletes in spades. Here's some observations on White from NBCsports.com after USC's recent Pro Day:


Jason Cole, writing for NBCSports.com, reports USC RB LenDale White wore a loose-fitting warm-up suit during his Pro Day in an effort to not show much of his body. He drew audible groans from NFL scouts at the NFL Combine when he showed his chest. After seeing White at the NFL Combine, one NFL general manager said, "The guy needed a bra, it was ridiculous. You come to the combine looking like that and you want to be a first-round pick? Come on. The guy had obviously been doing nothing."


LenDale White is being mentioned in the same company as free agent RB Maurice Clarett. An NFL executive said, "We had one of our scouts go up and ask him what was going on (after White didn't run). The kid said his hamstring was tight or something like that. Then we tried to find out when he was going to run and he didn't know. It didn't even sound like he was going to run. What does this kid think?" A former USC offensive player who once was a teammate of White's said, "The guy can play, but he just gets by. He coasted in practice and he coasted in the offseason. He came in thinking he just had to put in his time and that's what you see now." The teammate added that the things White was able to do was because he played next to RB Reggie Bush and the other guys around him. He added that White would be amazing if he really worked at it.

 

[reclaimsocal]

Speaking of White Guys getting the shaft on draft day.... How come Dusty Dvoracek isn't getting more play at the DT position? The guy is over 300 lbs, ran a sub 5.0 40 and as far as I can remember was productive on the field despite a few problems off it. Most draft experts have him anywhere between 7 and 10 on the DT lists. I don't see how anyone can put Rod Wright ahead of him, yet almost all of them do.

 

[Guest]

The Jets, 49ers and Bears are all looking at John Syptak LB/DE from Rice.

 

[Don Wassall]

Neither Hass nor any other white WR makes McPaper's list of the top 15 receivers:


[url]http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-04-12-wid e-receiver-profile_x.htm[/url]

 

[Spooge]

Well I'm sure glad to be sitting down after reading that about Hass. If you look waaaaay back in some of my ealier posts I (without much doubt) predicted that Hass would go late. And after getting on a team, he sure would not start. Lets just wait and see. I'm a very big (used to live 20 minutes from Reser stadium where he played) Hass fan and wish him all the best, but he is up againts a cultural juggernaut that can not and will not be derailed!

 

[reclaimsocal]

There are 3 guys who didn't even play WR in college and 1 Black guy who ran a 4.8 40 on that list ahead of Hass, who dominated in a top notch conference.... How can anyone not see the blatant discrimination going on here? Sad.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

it constantly surprises me how far NFL talent "experts" go to prevent white athletes from being considered as such. take for example the following excerpts from nfldraftcountdown.com...

#14 WR Mike Hass: Is not very quick or explosive...Not much of a deep threat and won't stretch the field vertically...Will have trouble separating from pro defensive backs...Doesn't provide much in terms of running after the catch...Might have a limited upside...

the top receiver in the NATION ranks only 14th! Hass had 90 catches this past year averaging 17 yards per...how much more of a deep threat/yards after catch guy do they need?

#26 WR Jeremy Bloom: 40-Time: 4.52...Extremely fast...A great natural athlete...Has outstanding quickness...Explosive and a terror to try and tackle in the open field...

how can a "very fast" guy run a 4.52 40?

#31 WR David Anderson: 40-time 4.58...Does not have the ideal size you would prefer...Is more quick than fast and lacks elite timed speed...Not much of a deep threat and struggles to separate...Is not really much of a blocker...Upside and potential is probably limited at the pro level

they say all those things, and somehow they overwhelm the more important attributes you look for in a receiver, which THEY GIVE CREDIT TO HIM FOR!

Was very productive...Runs good routes and knows how to get open...Has reliable hands and good body control...Tough and fearless...Very smart and is a hard worker...Just has a knack for coming up big...

what more can anyone ask for?!? jeez!

the list goes on, but i'm getting pissed off. shockingly several of the players we've been talking about don't even make the list.

 

[SteveB]

I wonder what their assessment of Jerry Rice (4.6 speed) and Anquan Bolden (4.7 speed) would be.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

actually, the fastest 40 time jerry rice ever ran was a 4.7, and he only did that once.

somehow, though, despite coming out of tiny Mississippi Valley State (where i daresay the level of competition was not all that high) and running a rather pedestrian 40 and without possessing phenomenal size, rice was the 16th pick overall in the draft! imagine that happening today, or better yet imagine that happening to a white player!

the bottom line is that speed is just icing on the cake. you can have an awfully good cake with no icing, see the example of mr. rice. however, eating a lot of icing will give you nothing but a stomach ache. kinda like watching the NFL.

 

[reclaimsocal]

Speed is absolutely the most overrated quality to possess as a WR. Look at the top recievers (including RB's and TE's) of all time:

Pro Football Hall of Fame Top 20 - Leading Lifetime Receivers
(At the Start of the 2005 Season)

RankPlayer League Yrs. No. Yards Avg. TD
1 (1) JERRY RICE NFL 20 1,549 22,895 14.8 197
2 (2) Cris Carter NFL 16 1,101 13,899 12.6 130
3 (3) TIM BROWN NFL 17 1,094 14,934 13.7 100
4 (4) Andre Reed NFL 16 951 13,198 13.9 87
5 (5) Art Monk NFL 16 940 12,721 13.5 68
6 (6) Irving Fryar NFL 17 851 12,785 15.0 84
7 (12) MARVIN HARRISON NFL 9 845 11,185 13.2 98
8 (7) Larry Centers NFL 14 827 6,797 8.2 28
9 (8) Steve Largent * NFL 14 819 13,089 16.0 100
10 (9) Shannon Sharpe NFL 14 815 10,060 12.3 62
11 (10) Henry Ellard NFL 16 814 13,777 16.9 65
12 (17) JIMMY SMITH NFL 12 792 11,264 14.2 61
13 (20) ISAAC BRUCE NFL 11 777 11,753 15.1 74
14 (11) James Lofton * NFL 16 764 14,004 18.3 75
15 (16) KEENAN McCARDELL NFL 13 755 9,763 12.9 53
16T (13T) Charlie Joiner * AFL-NFL 18 750 12,146 16.2 65
16T (13T) Michael Irvin NFL 12 750 11,904 15.9 65
18 (15) Andre Rison NFL 12 743 10,205 13.7 84
19 (--) MARSHALL FAULK NFL 11 723 6,584 9.1 35
20 (--) ROD SMITH NFL 10 712 9,772 13.7 59

Next in Line:
Players active in 2004 who rank the closest to a Top 20 ranking: KEYSHAWN JOHNSON (673), TERRELL OWENS (669), and RICKY PROEHL (641).


With the exception of Andre Rison, I would not place any of the others in the category of "speed reciever". When I get time I'll try to track down the 40 times for each of the above.

Edited by: reclaimsocal

 

[SteveB]

With the exception of Andre Rison, I would not place any of the others in the category of "speed reciever". When I get time I'll try to track down the 40 times for each of the above.

I agree, with the exception of James Lofton. He was a guy who was considered fast since he was a 4 time track All American in college. Lofton is still tearing it up as one of the top ranked Masters Track athletes in his age division.Edited by: SteveB

 

[JGNYC]

Issac Bruce was also a track guy..a 9.2 or 9.3 100 yard guy.
I think Tim Brown was also a 'speed' receiver, but your point is well taken - most of these guys were not 4.3 speed demons, which seems to be the only thing that coaches look for these days.

 

[Guest]

NFL | Former Arena League player works out for NFL scouts
Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:00:41 -0700

Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, reports former Arena League Football WR Troy Bergeron (Georgia Force) ran for NFL scouts outdoors March 23 at a high school on a rubber track. Bergeron (6-1 1/8, 197) was clocked at 4.48 and 4.49 in the 40. He had a 33-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-9 long jump, a 4.35 short shuttle and a 7.25 three-cone drill.

 

[ocaamikedm11]

Hopefully Troy will get a shot on some team... I don't think this WR class is particularly any good so I think he will get drafted by someone on the 2nd day...

 

[Poacher]

Just saw an article over on USATODAY that purported to name the top wideouts of this years draft. Notice a certain name missing?

[url]http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-04-12-wid e-receiver-profile_x.htm[/url]

 

[Don Wassall]

Mel Kiper just put out a four round mock draft, and Hass is nowhere to be found. It just keeps getting a little more ridiculous every year.

 

[Guest]

Two of the players at WR that really get me angry that they are listed ahead of Hass are Jason Avant who ran a 4.8 at his proday with a cast on and 4.62 without one a few weeks later. Hass ran faster than him. Greg Lee is another one who should not even be considered until the 6th round yet he gets more praise than Hass. I will be very upset if Hass is not picked on day one. He was the Biletnikoff winner. It is so frustrating. I really am hoping that Hass,Bloom,Anderson and Hinkle get drafted. That would be a great improvement over past years. Hopefully Bergeron will get drafted too, Adrian McPherson was a criminal and was drafted based on his AFL experiece. I think bergeron will get drafted late.

 

[Poacher]

It's amazing how little respect white backs and receivers get by the so called experts. This guy won the award for being the top receiver in the country and he's treated like the paper boy. Same thing happened to Luke Staley. He won the Doak Walker award (?) and was pretty much snubbed. God I wish I owned an NFL team.

 

[white is right]

Hass should be no worse than a late day 1 pick. He is too productive. It's not like he was playing in the Ivy league or the Mac putting up those numbers. I just hope he gets a fair shake by the coaching staff of the team that drafts him.......

 

[Freedom]

All the successful teams win by giving low round picks opportunities. Indianapolis has Stokely, who was a fourth round draft pick. Pittsburg had the blocking of undrafted rookie Dan Kreider. New England has...TOM BRADY. 6th round draft pick who miraculously made the Patriots in 2001, beating out Michael Bishop who was traded that preseason. Never heard from Bishop again.