Black Boxing Superiority

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Shogun, I didn't read the previous threads. I think that Gary thought that I chose that clip because Sanders is White. I happen to genuinely think that its a greatperformance set to an inspiring tune.I agree!The liberal establishment in the US has promoted Black athletes to the detriment of Whites.I alsobelieve that MODERN boxing is uniquelytailored to fit the limited range ofphysical advantages Blacks enjoy over Whites. Boxing became popular in the first place because it was a form ofcontest which pushed beyond the boundaries of athletic skill andintodeeper realms where the atheletefaced the possibility of death or permanent injury, now its much more of a sport.


The point I was trying to make was that modern White American boxers were possibly derogating their chances of victory by trying to fight in a style more suited to Blacks. I really would like to know if Black boxers are more vulnerable to body shots. This was the recieved wisdom of old-time trainers and boxers. These people were the experts, why would they just make something like that up?
 

White_Savage

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calvin said:
Interesting input. I wouldn't put all performance disparity down to environment. I think that Black atheletes dominate some sports like sprinting because of physical advantages. It seems to me that a higher than average proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres; faster reaction times; differences in the hip to shoulder ratio;,arm length and cranial morphology, must give Blacks an advantage in modern ten round big-gloved boxing.

Let me wade through some of this...

First of all, White reaction times, as measured by things like hitting a button as soon as it lights up, are faster than black reaction times. Asians have the fastest of all however-IOW, reaction time rougly correlates with average intelligence and general mental ability, which is not all that surprising. Numerous scientific studies have shown this. I site one in a thread on the "Happy Hour" forum, look it up if you don't believe me.

The fast twitch muscle thing has never been proven and is basically unprovable, as it would basically involve dissecting black and white athletes and microscopically examining core sections of their muscle. The black advantage in SPRINTING, which is why everyone thinks they "twitch" so fast in the first place, is quite easily explained by differences in body type-longer limbs, thicker thighs, narrower hips, and lighter calves. Nor do I think the white advantage in STRENGTH really has much to do with our muscles being somehow fundamentally different-shorter limb and a larger body size in relation to those limbs, a more bulky musculature esp in the upper body, and things like our "heavy" muscular calves, simply allow for greater strength. Whatever % of fibers you start out with, you add mass and strength to the fibers through your specific training methods.

IOW, if you haven't seen any lighting-fast non-black boxers, you haven't been watching enough boxing.

Hip to shoulder ratio? Punching power is a function of leg and body power transferred through your arm. IOW, wider hips bigger bodies, and stumpier, more muscular limbs if anything give the potential for MORE powerful punches, in the same way it's better for throwing such things as shotputs, javelins, and hammers. Marciano had the perfect build for what he was, one of the most powerful hitters of the HW division, even though he only weighed 185 lbs.

Your commentary about not trying to box in the "black" manner are 180 degrees wrong. How do I put this? It seems to me that blacks who are dabbling in boxing try to imitate Ali or Sugar Ray, while you'd think the Whites were trying to imitate Marciano (not a good a idea unless you are the Rock.) Your comments remind me of that scene in Rocky III where Creed is trying to train Rocky, and Pauly says, "He's a Bruiser, not a boxer" "Yeah, keep telling him that and that's all he'll ever be." If you take a boy and don't train him properly, he'll usually try to be a slugger-it's the most natural way to fight, but will only take you so far, unless you're born to be one. My strengths in the striking game have always been head momvement, hand speed, good defense and counterpunching-the very things that are supposed to be so darn "black". I do think their music, dance, and cultural movement pattern helps them lay the foundations for some of these things, such as footwork and head movement, at an early age.

Boxing btw, had been more or less integrated for 40-50 years when Marciano was champ. The Rock was not the first nor the last caucasian fighter to defeat the best of his black opposition. Nor has the "black-out" of champhionships ever been complete in anything but the HW division.

Now with arm length and possibly skull morphology, you have a point, but arm length is not the end-all be all of boxing, otherwise Kenyans would dominate boxing.
 

JD074

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Kaptain Poop said:
Is there any study that shows a black advantage in arm length? I have seen none. I don't think we should assume this exists without some evidence. One scientific study should do. Surely it would be an easy thing to study.

I'm not an expert on this stuff, hence the disclaimer "theoretical." Anecdotally (if that's a word,) when they show the "tale of the tape" before a boxing match, oftentimes the black fighter has proportionately longer arms than a white or non-black Hispanic opponent. Vitaly was taller than Lewis but Lewis had as long or longer arms. Wlad was four or five inches taller than Peter, but his arms were either 1.5 or 2.5 inches longer (forgot which one.) There also seems to be a lot of black basketball players who have long arms. That's not science, of course.

As for doing a scientific study, I doubt if too many researchers want to take the risk researching racial differences. You know the drill: if you claim one difference (say, arm length) it supposedly "opens the door" for claims of "politically incorrect" differences (namely, IQ and brain size.)

Edited by: JD074
 

JD074

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calvin said:
Couldn't it be argued that Blacks aren't attracted into MMA for the same reason they are not attracted into Rodeo?

That's a silly analogy. There are blacks involved in boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, and yes, MMA. There's nothing inhibiting their participation except their own talent level.

calvin said:
If you start saying that racial differences are not a factor in sporting achievement you are opening the door for the White liberal champions of Black atheletes to claim that Blacks would dominate tennis, cycling, equestrian and skiing, etc., if only they didn't suffer from social and cultural discrimination

I agree with Shogun, that would be faulty logic. First of all, we're talking about the "American Sports Establishment," not just liberals. Secondly, they already think that blacks would dominate those sports, regardless of what we say. And thirdly, if they truly didn't believe in racial differences then they wouldn't claim that blacks would automatically dominate any sport that they choose to participate in. But they do believe in black athletic superiority; they just don't say it outright because they're afraid of "opening the door" to discussions of other differences (like intelligence and crime rates.)

calvin said:
I think that maybe the East European fighters have the advantage of not trying to fight like Black fighters and not training like Black and Western boxers.

Of course, Wlad was being trained by Emanuel Steward while he was pummelling the Nigerian Nightmare.

calvin said:
The Soviet system produced hundreds of thousands of Russian atheletes who are now free to ply their trade in the West.

That's what we're talking about regarding the dropping of the Iron Curtain. Edited by: JD074
 
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WS - there is a difference, on average, in the percentage of muscle fiber
types between blacks and whites, but there is a large amount of overlap.
The real difference lies in what seems to be a higher percentage of blacks
who release a higher level of certain enzymes during muscle contraction.
However, the percentages don't add up with what is seen in sports in this
country. Again, there is a large overlap in enzyme release levels, but each
group has certain "tendencies". There are whites out there with sprint
talent, but in a smaller percentage than what you will find amongst
blacks, just as there are blacks who could compete in Olympic
weightlifting against whites, but they would be a very small percentage of
that population.

In terms of reactions, Asians had a slightly higher 'average' than whites in
terms of speed, but the absolute fastest reactions in tests have been from
whites. The people putting forth this info usually don't like to mention
this fact, but it's right there if you read the papers the scientists put
together. Things are so PC it's hard for anyone to say whites are best at
any damn thing. BTW, reaction time does tend to follow the trend in IQ,
Asians with a slightly higher average than whites, but with a much
narrower SD (standard deviation) than whites, which is why most top
creatives, geniuses etc. are white. There are also differences in the
structure of intelligence between groups, but that goes way off the beam
in this thread.

Blacks do tend to have longer limbs, on average, than whites. I have to
wonder if this in fact is possibly a disadvantage in NHB fights. Watch the
way some of the white fighters toss around blacks trying to use jabs, the
problems the blacks have with staying balanced while locked up by white
(and Asian) fighters. Look at highlights of Igor Vovchanchyn's fights in
his heyday. Black fighters seem lost against him. Their very builds
projected a disadvantage in those fights with Igor.

BTW - that's a good point about the "black out" in boxing. White champs
are ignored. Have been ignored, for decades. I can remember Mike
Rossman - and he surprised me when he said this for obvious reasons -
stated that the powers that be in boxing "... don't want white champions."
He was right.

What we see today in many sports is an artificial situation, a situation
reinforced by the brainwashing conducted by the media and academia.
All part of a war. A war against whites, specifically against white males.
 

White_Savage

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BTW, if anyones interested, the single best example of a how fast a White man can be can be found on the Dog-Brothers Real-Contact Stickfighting instructional video series. Eric Knaus's fluid,fast, functional footwork, snake-like speed in striking with a heavy stick, and amazing ability to parry shots again and again from bokkens or staffs moving at blurring speed is something to behold.

Cal: If you're still interested in the body shot topics, it's like I said, smaller-waisted, thinner bodied fighters are more vulnerable to them. Also, blacks not only tend to have narrower waists, but tend to be "flatter" in body front to back, as opposed to Whites who tend to have a deeper, more "barrel chested" ribcage.
 

Gary

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Calvin you may or not be pignuts-as pointed out the spelling has improved. Don't use the word "challenge" toward me or any of the posters here-it's not very manly since any of us could be anybody. We don't need any keyboard "Tigers". Reach is important in boxing BUT Marciano had the shortest reach ever and never lost. Can blacks take a better punch? Well Tom Sharkey, George Chuvalo, Tex Cobb and Marcaino had the best chins ever. Floyd Patterson could get knocked down by a feather. As for athletic ability. The Soviet Union at one time or another had the World's Fastest Human, World's Strongest Human, Gold Medals in Basketball, Ice Hockey, Pole Vault, Shot Putt, Gold Medals in Wieghtlifting, Boxing, Wrestling, Etc, Etc. What nation in Africa can produce so many top athletes? So a look at the facts based on the record books, Eastern European men are far better athletes then blacks! It's a Fact the Records Prove it. By the way we on this website will not let you or anybody else come on here and tell us that blacks can beat us at anything except maybe tap dancing.
 
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WS - the comment on the "ribcage" differences is a good note. I can
remember a boxing trainer, a Mexican guy with quite a few top notch
fighters working with him, telling me he instructed his fighters when
going against blacks to concentrate the attack on the body, specifcally
the "low" sides of the rib cage and the sternum (!). He told me he was
convinced that they couldn't take constant pounding in those areas. He
also told me that he felt white fighters handled body shots best of all -
but of course he told me he felt Mexicans were the best boxers. He was
sticking up for his own, which I can respect. He felt blacks were
overrated and got away with murder in the ring when it came to running
and avoiding a real fight in many situations.
 
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Guys! That's a lot of information to ponder. I can't fault the logic of Callan and Savage.


Gary you are an *******! I'm sorry if that gets me banned, but it needs saying. First off you come on all macho with the insults and contempt, and then when your macho bluster is identified for what it is, aggressive penis display, used in higher primates to innitiate combat, you have so little immagination that you simplyturn the same accusation ofmachismoagainst your putative victim. You seem to be blissfuly unaware thar warning me off by saying, "don't use words like challenge here" is just more of the same keyboard bravado you accuse me off. If you want to test your manhood, get into a street fight, don't bring it to a discussion forum.
 

jaxvid

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Gentlemen please, some civility.

I think the intent of calvin's original posts were mis-interperted. He has since agreed with our general point of view. Any further discussion is merely debate of some of the finer points of the issue.

I would hate to see the site so unwelcoming of newcomers that we lashed out at anyone who was not in complete agreement with us upon arrival.

Let's put out a welcome mat for anyone who wishes to be peaceably received.
 

Bart

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calvin said:
Gary, I considercalling me "pignuts" to be in the nature of a challenge. Why are you issuing a challenge to combat in an arena where that challenge cannot be met? For all you know I might be the heavyweight champion of Scotland. In any case there is virtually no chance of two random forum posters ever coming face to face and you know it.


I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Am I missing something here? Gary may have been mistaken regarding your identity but he didn't issue any sort of challenge other than to disagree with your viewpoint.
 

Gary

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Calvin[?}-Don't get excited! If we ever did meet I'd want some of the guys here to be present to make public the results. As I posted don't talk tough-nobody likes a keyboard champ-save your tough talk for the kid with the thick glasses behind the counter at McDonalds when you get your Happy Meal. You posted some nonsense about blacks being better fighters then whites-I set the record straight. Get over it and learn a lesson-You cheer for blacks and I'll cheer for the men from Europe and we'll see who wins.
 
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Boxing is being 'ignored' in a fashion by the media in a way that hasn't
been seen since the late 1950's/early 1960's - until the arrival of the
sport's 'saviour", Cassius Clay and his mouth that supposedly brought the
sport back. More likely, he was just the negro needed to advance 'the
agenda'. Anyway, the sport is getting less attention - at least in the
heavyweight division - because of the emergence of the all the
dominating white fighters. They are not sending the correct message.
The treatment these guys are receiving is proof enough that the media
definitely is not looking for the "Great White Hope". It never was. The
smaller latin fighters are getting a fair amount of press, of course, and
guys like Mayweather will suck up the rest of the pub. NHB is totally
ignored because of the dominance of whites. If blacks or mestizos ruled
the roost, then it would get a lot more air time and print coverage in the
'mainstream media'.

I think it's safe to say the hunt is on for the "Great Black Hope" in the
heavyweight division. One way to get rid of the inevitable chicanery that
is going to occur is to wrest control of the boxing commissions from the
horribly corrupt latins, blacks and usual suspects that are pulling the
strings. Things would move a lot faster without their maneuvering and
stalling.
 

Gary

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Colonel Callen-good post-good points-I read today that Vitali Klitschko is the first World Heavyweight Champion with a Ph.D and he speaks four languages! For most of my life the "champs" were guys that could barely read or write and had criminal records a mile long. These men from Eastern Europe are very good for boxing, if the PC media wasn't so full of hate they could see that. Most of these men are good role models for the youth. I'd much rather have my sons grow up like Vitali then Mike Tyson.
 

white lightning

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Come on Gary,you mean you don't want your kids to grow up to be thugs,rape women,and get tatoos on their faces.
Ha.ha.ha.I totally agree.I love the boxers from Europe.It is so nice to watch a match and actually enjoy the interviews afterwards.It's really funny because alot of minorities at my work and around here,just can't stand all of these white champions.They are finally getting a taste of their own medicine.
 

Gary

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White lightning-your a good poster-The thing that I think is very hypocritial about the PC media is that they cry about "diversity" but now there is "diversity" in boxing they don't like it. Can it be "diversity" is only good if it works in there favor? These bleeding hearts talk of " victims" of the past. Tell me who could be considered more "victims" then the Eastern Europeans?No Black, No American Indian, No Mexican living in the USA could be more of a "victim" then people from Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Etc. The wars, lack of food, lack of basic civil rights, murder by there own governments, the list of hardships could fill a big book! Now they get a chance and the liberal press who are always looking for a "victims cause" to cry about, say nothing! Could it be they are the wrong color! Could it be these men from Eastern Europe are smashing there "hero's" in boxing and Olympic basketball?
I'm no commie, I was born and raised in Ohio and that's about as American as you can get, but I do respect what these men have done in about 10 short years in boxing!! I HOPE THEY KEEP WINNING!!!!
 

JD074

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Gary said:
Can it be "diversity" is only good if it works in there favor?

Exactly. It just means "less whites, more non-whites." Same thing with "tolerance." It only means that we conservatives have to tolerate all their politically correct garbage (like homosexuality.) It doesn't mean that the libs have to tolerate us.

These bleeding hearts talk of " victims" of the past.

Same thing there. Only non-whites can be "victims." That's why this site exists. Whites cannot be victims in the Sports Establishment. Only black college football head coaches can be discriminated against, not white running backs.
 
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Gary, permit me to quote from you, "Calvin[?}-Don't get excited! If we ever did meet I'd want some of the guys here to be present to make public the results. As I posted don't talk tough-nobody likes a keyboard champ-save your tough talk for the kid with the thick glasses behind the counter at McDonalds when you get your Happy Meal"


"Don't tough talk nobody" Sorry! but I think that any tough talking being done here is being done by you. Take a look at your above statement and then go look up the word oxymoron in a dictionary. I come from Scotland, but I've been to the US. It seems to me that all of the fighting done in the States is done by Mexicans and Blacks, and it usualy involves ballistic weapons. In my country the population is 97% White and we don't have guns. Our biggest city is the most violent city in Europe. If you are a working class Scot you will have fought with your fist on the streets on at least a couple of occassions. Since you are fond of accusing me of machismo, let me how it is, I'm notafraid of any lardass, steroid monkey yanks. If we ever had a fight you would have a beer glass in your face whilst we were still smiling and shaking hands about the dispute we had online. You are fond of boasting about the men from Eastern Europe. You see these people as your champions. These people have more respect for the Black fighters they compete against. The Klitschko brothers support Yushenko!!!!!!???????? For people like you, racial pride is all about what other people can do on your behalf. Getting the White race of of its knees entails every individual White person standing up on their own. Its not about patting other people on the back Gary.
 

Gary

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Hey Cal-I've been to Scotland-some sissies, some tough ,by the way you talk I can only guess what class your in. We on this site root-cheer for White Males or did you even bother to read the guidelines.
I was stationed for 2 years at Holy Loch by the River Clyde. One of my sons was born in Bellshill. If you want to talk boxing then talk boxing-don't talk about hitting me in the face with a beer-that's sissy talking- Talk about Jim Watt, Walter McGowan or Ken Buchanan that is the tough Scots we can be proud of or Forbes Cowan the Strongman.
Don't talk tough on the keyboard it's a dead give away the guy's most likely a punk. It there has been a misunderstanding get over and get on with life. As far as far "steriod monkey yanks" these Yanks saved your skinny behind during WW2 and the Russians took the big hits from Germany you could never have taken.
Now you want to talk boxing or do you wnat to play the punk and tell us how tough you are{which none of us believe anyway]?
 

jaxvid

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I see you guys took my suggestion to be more civil.
 

White_Savage

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Just out of curiousity, what traits in his opinions make Mexicans the best boxers?


Colonel Callan said:
WS - the comment on the "ribcage" differences is a good note. I can
remember a boxing trainer, a Mexican guy with quite a few top notch
fighters working with him, telling me he instructed his fighters when
going against blacks to concentrate the attack on the body, specifcally
the "low" sides of the rib cage and the sternum (!). He told me he was
convinced that they couldn't take constant pounding in those areas. He
also told me that he felt white fighters handled body shots best of all -
but of course he told me he felt Mexicans were the best boxers. He was
sticking up for his own, which I can respect. He felt blacks were
overrated and got away with murder in the ring when it came to running
and avoiding a real fight in many situations.
 

White_Savage

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calvin said:
Gary, permit me to quote from you, "Calvin[?}- You are fond of boasting about the men from Eastern Europe. You see these people as your champions. These people have more respect for the Black fighters they compete against.

 

I really wonder if this is so. They can't say much openly if they want a career, but no one who deals with blacks day in and day out can avoid noticing a thing or two, even if they never vocalize on it. And of course, I think White fighters hate the "Great White Hope" label simply because it's usually applied to people who loose. As Vitali said "I don't want to be the hope, I want to be the Champ."

Anyway, here's what Vitali had to say about Tyson, if that's any indication of his real attitude:

PB: Why do you think a guy like Mike Tyson has found himself in physical altercations somewhat regularly -- while you manage to avoid them?
VK: There's a difference between animals and humans. Animals use just physical power. God gave people intellect. God gave people language. And we try to use what God gave us. That's why we don't have to fight in the street. We can find compromise.
 

White_Savage

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Cal, I've tried to stay out of this boondoggle, but cannot since you insist on commenting on American Whites as a group.

You seem to be making the claim that Whites in Scotland act like ******** in-well, every country that has ********. That's kind of a dubious honor to aspire to, IMHO.
 

Bart

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White_Savage said:
PB: Why do you think a guy like Mike Tyson has found himself in physical altercations somewhat regularly -- while you manage to avoid them?
VK: There's a difference between animals and humans. Animals use just physical power. God gave people intellect. God gave people language. And we try to use what God gave us. That's why we don't have to fight in the street. We can find compromise.


Excellent answer!
 
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