Apathetic Christians Killing the USA?

Discussion in 'Happy Hour' started by DixieDestroyer, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. DixieDestroyer

    DixieDestroyer Hall of Famer

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    Another right on the money article by paleo-conservative/Constitutionalist Pastor Dr.Chuck Baldwin on the far too many milquetoast, head-in-the-sand, hide under the pew Christians. As a fundementalist Baptist, I can attest to the lack of awareness of the many threats to our Constitutional Republic on the part of many good Christian folks. So many Christians have been totally deceived by false-prophets (ie - Rick "CFR" Warren) & the Megachurch mindset (ie - Joel "Oscheme", "Prosperity" Gospel, etc.). Others are so focused spiritually, that they disregard politics (being truly informed, pro-active, etc.), OR have been NeoCON'd by Globalist Elite puppets disguised as "conservatives" (eg - "SkullnBones" Bush, Hucksterbee, etc.). I try to educate my fellow Church members & Christians who I think are intelligent & receptive enough to understand the truth (regarding the threat of the Globalist Elite agenda). I hope & pray my fellow Christians (& ALL Americans) will awake to the deception of the Globalist Elite!

    APATHETIC PASTORS AND CHRISTIANS KILLING AMERICA

    By Pastor Chuck Baldwin

    April 1, 2008
    NewsWithViews.com

    America's most celebrated jurist, Daniel Webster (himself a dedicated Christian man), said, "God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it." Obviously, Christian men down through our history have personally and collectively shown themselves more than willing to "guard and defend" our liberties. From Bunker Hill to the Alamo, Christian men stood tall in the defense of America's freedom. So, it is more than a little disconcerting to realize that there is a sizeable percentage of today's Christians who seem completely unwilling to "guard and defend" liberty in these United States of America.

    Oh, I know that almost all of our pastors and church leaders will laud and honor a young Christian man's decision to join our armed forces and go overseas to fight enemies abroad. But when it comes to opposing those within our own country who seek to dismantle constitutional government or the principles of liberty, their support for resistance turns to apathy and indifference. (The reason for this couldn't be because they simply don't want to do the hard work, could it? Please tell me it ain't so!)

    I have even had Christians tell me that we should not oppose any attempts to resist draconian developments within our country, because doing so would actually be resisting God. The reasoning goes something like this: "The Bible says things will get worse and worse. Therefore, all this 'bad' stuff happening is God's will, and if we try to prevent it, we are fighting against God's will." I know it sounds incredible, but we might be shocked as to the number of professing Christians that actually subscribe to such nonsense.

    Isn't it interesting, however, that these same Christians did not believe we were fighting against God's will when we sent hundreds of thousands of U.S. military forces (many of them Christians) to fight and destroy the evil regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq? If things are supposed to get worse and worse and we would be opposing God's will by resisting, why should we interfere in Iraq? Why should we send troops to Afghanistan, if we are not to resist evil?

    And, of course, the bigger question is, If it is right to resist evil in a foreign country half way around the world, why is it not right to resist evil in our own country?

    Furthermore, the same Christians that tell us we should not oppose any evil being perpetrated by those within our own government will scream about the importance of going to the polls in November and defeating the "evil" Democrats. But why? If Christians are not to resist evil, because the Bible says things will get worse and worse, why should we worry about who wins an election? In fact, it would seem that the best thing we could do would be to identify the absolute worst, most evil candidate we could find and vote for him (or her). After all, if God intends for things to get worse and worse, why don't we help Him out by assisting the efforts of evil people?

    I wonder if Christians actually think about what they are saying?

    When Jesus said, "resist not evil," (Matt. 5:39) did He mean that we should not oppose a would-be rapist or murderer? Did He mean we should not oppose those who would destroy our homes or country? I know a few honest pacifists. However, this is not the belief system of most Christians. Most Christians believe in lawful self-defense (including this writer).

    The fact is, if it is right to oppose evil in Iraq (and I am among those who question the constitutional right and authority of the war in Iraq), it is right to oppose evil in America. If we Christians are willing to send our fellow believers to fight and die in opposition to tyranny half way around the world, it is right that we should be willing to fight and even die in opposition to tyranny right here at home. It is absolute lunacy for Christians to flippantly dismiss their moral, spiritual, and civil obligation to resist the tyrannical tendencies of corrupt political powers in these United States.

    Christians are plainly commanded to resist the Evil One (James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:9). When Abraham's nephew, Lot, was taken captive by an alien army, did Abraham say, "Things are going to get worse and worse and there is nothing we can do about it"? Or did he gather his own army and attack the invaders and deliver his nephew (see Genesis chapter 14)?

    During the dark days of Israel's captivities, did not God raise up deliverers to stand against the evildoers? When David saw Goliath, did he say, "Things are supposed to get worse and worse"? Or did he gather his sling and stones and march out to face the pagan?

    The history of the early church in New Testament times is one continuous example of resistance to tyrannical authority. The apostles repeatedly refused to submit to the dictates and demands of both Jewish and Roman authorities. Every apostle, save John, was killed for resisting carnal authority.

    Throughout church history, martyrdom was common. Some such as Huss and Tyndale died passively at the hands of various religious and political elements, while others such as Zwingli died on the battlefield resisting corrupt and tyrannical governments.

    The fact is, for more than two thousand years of Church history--from John the Baptist to John Witherspoon--Christians have repeatedly and consistently resisted evil authorities. How dare pastors and Christians now say that we should not resist the evil, tyrannical tendencies of powerful politicos? How dare they suggest that it is "God's will" that we allow evil to triumph in our land?

    Worse still is the apathy and indifference that many Christians display toward the great freedoms and liberties into which they have been born as Americans. We enjoy these great liberties, because our forebears (many of them Christians) were willing to fight and die to bequeath them to us. We do not enjoy the rights and freedoms enumerated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights and announced in the Declaration of Independence by chance or luck. These freedoms were secured by the blood, sweat, and tears of brave Americans who chose to fight evil in our own country.

    America has enjoyed the blessings of liberty, because, as Webster said, our fathers and grandfathers were willing to "guard and defend" it. Will this be the generation that refuses to "guard and defend" liberty? Will this be the generation that permits the evil machinations of powerful, but corrupt, authorities to steal liberty from our posterity?

    Reference article...Edited by: DixieDestroyer
     
  2. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    Zwingli, Huss, and Tyndale might have resisted, but they didn't fight.

    The New Testament examples provided, as well as the example of Jesus, was one of resistance without resorting to actual warfare or fighting.

    I personally do not accept this matrix and believe the right of self-defense is our right as living beings. But I can't say it's 100% supported by Scripture, especially in the NT.

    We had a thread going about this subject a while back, but I can't remember the thread title. I think it was another hijacked thread. [​IMG]
     
  3. Tom Iron

    Tom Iron Mentor

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    White Shogun,

    I'd say the Calvinists weren't afraid of a bit of mass murder and warfare.

    Ever hear of the Roundheads? Prayers were a must before and after battle.

    Of course, the Catholics didn't take a back seat to anybody in this regard, as we know.

    For the most part, many of these "ministers and priests" that we have today, in no way represent Chistianity as it was meant to be.

    Tom Iron...
     
  4. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    Yes, of course. But the article didn't mention Calvinists, Roundheads, or Catholics, it mentioned Huss, et al, and the NT specifically, which is why I left my remarks to those examples.

    As we know, one can prove almost anything from Scripture if you look hard enough, lift verses out of context, argue about translation, hypothesize about what the author 'meant' to say... but I think one is still hard-pressed to show from the New Testament itself that believers are enjoined to make war against the unrighteous. On the contrary, Christians are called to make disciples of the unbelievers, through love and not the sword.

    But like I said, I don't accept that personal philosophy myself. Anything other than the right of self-defense must be a misinterpretation of the text. [​IMG]
     
  5. Sean

    Sean Mentor

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    Great post! Great article!

    I myself am a born-again Christian, and I'm tired of the phoney's making Christianity out to be a weak religion.

    BTW, Zwingli actually died on the battle field, fighting for Zurich (among other pastor who fought at this battle).

    We are told in the Bible that God is unchanging. He told his followers to fight in the OT. It's true that fighting is not much mentioned in the NT, but since God is unchanging shows that there are still times righteous people must fight to protect themselves.

    This is not to say forcefully convert people as some other religions do (that is why Jesus speaks of loving your enemy, etc.). The first goal of Christians are to try to save the lost. But the NT says nothing about not defending yourself.

    Jesus said occupy until he returns, not get shoved arround!

    In fact, Jesus himself you may recall made a cord into a whip and drove the money lenders out of the temple forcefully.Edited by: Sean
     
  6. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    I was a part of the old hijacked thread that Shogun was referring too several months ago. Don't want to revisit the issue but let's just say I am in agreement with Sean on this one. [​IMG]
     
  7. darthvader

    darthvader Guru

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    As far as I'm concerned all religion is pure fiction and fairy tale. It's like when you were a kid and your parents told you about the bogeyman. I don't know if jesus ever existed and died for our sins. Frankly I don't care. Millions of whites have perished throughout centuries in the name of religion. They died for nothing as far as I'm concerned. If whites don't get their head out of their asses over this pure scam (that's what all of it is)then more will even perish. I always say let nature take it's course and let it weed out the weak and stupid.
     
  8. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    So apparantly darthvader wants us to all come over and "join the dark side" with him. No thanks. Nothing personal.
     
  9. White_Savage

    White_Savage Mentor

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    I hate to play "Angel's Advocate", being a heathen, but I think any interpretation of Christianity that requires you to be an ant-racialist doormat is more modern hogwash. Certain Christians are preaching certain stoooooopid stuff in their churches, but the culture got stupid and then people started trying to justify it in Church, not the other way around.

    Honestly, there are more racialists who are Christians and at least somewhat hostile to our Feral government and more Atheists who are race-traitor socialists than the other way around.

    P.S.

    My thoughts on Star Wars and the "Darkside":

    "Fear leads to the Darkside, Anger leads to the Darkside, Hate leads to the Darkside, making the beast with two backs with your girlfriend leads to the Darkside, transfat leads to the Darkside"...Just WTF DOESN'T lead to the Darkside there Yoda?!??!? All this non-attachment to anything, yeah, that's an easy way of life for a nine-hundred-year-old sexless midget made from green beef-jerky to follow.(Too bad few in the West understands real Buddhism, which Jedi "philosophy" more or less apes. Buddhism's assumptions and its goal are actually incredibly pessimistic and depressing.)

    Its pretty sad when the value system expressed by the "good guys" in a film is so incredibly lame that it makes you sympathize with a whiny teenage pseudo-goth**** character that insists on going around dressed in black all the time....
     
  10. Sean

    Sean Mentor

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    A lot of modern "Christianity" is not true Christianity at all. All of this tolerance of everything and such reflects a weakening culture, not the words of the Bible. In the Bible, things that are called sins will forever remain sins. Now you have basically a lot of false prophets changing what is sin and adding their own beliefs in where they don't belong. Now it's okay, God understands, etc. That is totally false.

    The Bible does not preach diversity. Of course all people are able to get to heaven if they accept Jesus, but on earth it says nothing of mixing races. In the OT, God doesn't want his people mixing with others. Whenever that did happen, catastrophy soon followed. There was no diversity among Jesus' disciples either. Like I said above, all this weakness in modern "Christianity" is not true Christianity.
     
  11. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    Thanks for the correction. I should have double-checked before posting that from (false) memory.

    As for what the Bible says or doesn't say, about non-violence, race mixing, or anything else, I'll refrain from engaging in that debate. No need to add to another of 33,830 Christian denominations already in existence.

    Interestingly, I came across a statistic that said that Christianity at the beginning of the 20th century consisted of 81% white people. It ended the century at 45%.



    Edited by: White Shogun
     
  12. Sean

    Sean Mentor

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    [​IMG] Yes, I don't want this discussion to spiral into any negativity either.

    My only point is, non-believers should not base their thoughts on Christianity off of the modern day version, which is not usually real Christianity at all. I don't like Christians being thought of as weak, effeminate, girly men. All I know is that many great men through history have given their lives, fought in defense of, and spread he word of the Gospel, and I have great respect for these men. They were willing to die or fight for their beliefs. Can you picture many modern day "Christians" (who allow gay ministers, same sex couples, defend outright sins) to die for the Bible, which they CLEARLY do not believe in?

    Again, I mean no negativity towards you White Shogun, you are one of the best posters on Caste. I'm just tired of the same media that portrays Whites as weak, stupid, etc. doing the same thing to Christianity. In a way it's the same fight. Both confident whites and TRUE Christians are being replaced by self hating whites and false prophets. [​IMG]
     
  13. White Shogun

    White Shogun Hall of Famer

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    Thank you for the compliment, Sean. I took nothing you wrote personally, and actually I agree with you. I can't stand the weak, effeminate, religion that Christianity is or has become today, either. It makes me sick when I think that men like Charles Martel, Charlemagne and the warriors of Europe fight and died to preserve Europe from the Muslims and now their descendants are giving it away for free, with benefits no less.

    The same thing that is happening today in North America, except the invaders are Mestizo instead of Muslim.

    The modern day Christian faith is not strong enough or deep enough to fend off foreign invasion, and in fact is part of the reason we are so accepting of it. Christian evangelicals have a faith strong enough to fight being absorbed but they are being eaten away from the inside by the 'Emergent' church movement and fluffy-Gospel purveyors like Joel Osteen.

    I don't know what the answer to this dilemna is, but one thing for sure, secular humanism is not it.
     
  14. Lance Alworth

    Lance Alworth Mentor

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    I dont think its apathetic Christians that are killing the USA, but rather fanatical neo-con types like John Hagee that wish to see the US bogged down in some illegal war in order to hasten armageddon and of course, the "rapture"

    I'm a Christian, (Orthodox to be exact) but I am very aware of Pentecostal hucksters (there are heretics and apostates in every denomination but Pentecostals seem to be represented the most in this faction) like Hagee, Oral "give me 8 million dollars or I will die" Roberts, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, etc.. telling us about all this "end times" nonsense. If it does happen, I believe it will happen when GOD wants it to, not when one of these men do. Not to pick on any part of the country or anything, but you'll notice that most of these Christians that follow the likes of Hagee are those that are from the South and maybe some of the plains states. There are very few people from the Northeast or in Europe buying into this nonsense.

    Unfortunately, due to our controlled media, they would never allow someone like Chuck Baldwin to receive any air time whatsoever, but they're more than happy to do so for neo-con establishment types like Hagee. Hagee can spout any sort of self-serving trash he can dream up, and then he says, "God told me this!" And if someone questions or doubts, well, that person is just showing that he's not really a Christian, because if he really were a good Christian, he wouldn't doubt the good Reverend Moneybags. This sort of unbiblical psychological pressure causes people to leave their brains at the door when they enter pentecostal churches. It's all about feeling. They don't believe in worshiping God with their heart, soul, strength, and mind. It's all about the feelings.

    Anyway, thats my little rant on neo-con establishment type "Christians"
     
  15. jaxvid

    jaxvid Hall of Famer

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    Chuck Baldwin is writing great stuff, he's regular on VDARE.com one of my favorite sites. It would be great if he becomes the new "Falwell" and representative of the "Religious Right".
     
  16. LabMan

    LabMan Mentor

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