2019 Winter Meetings Deals

Discussion in 'Baseball' started by Shadowlight, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    There have been two huge signings so far.

    The Yankees nabbed starting ace Gerrit Cole for a humungous long term contract. I still wonder if they are going to resign OF Brett Gardner and most rumors suggest they will. I sure hope so. he was a key player for them last season. The addition of Cole catapults the Yankees as preseason favorites to win the World Series.

    The Angels were also pursuing Cole but have redirected their energies and just signed a healthy 7 year contract with Nationals star 3B Anthony Rendon. This is a great addition to their lineup ( he is also a fine defensive player) and is a much needed addition to prevent teams from pitching around Mike Trout. The Rendon/Trout combo is the deadliest in the MLB now.

    The Angels still need pitching and my understanding is they are looking for a quality front line starter. But with Strasburg resigning with the Nationals and striking out with Cole the pitcher pool is shrinking although there are still a few very good pitchers out there for the taking.
     
  2. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Happy to report the Yankees signed OF Brett Gardner to a one year deal with an option for a second year. This is great. I get all the Yankee games where I live and keeping Brett keeps the Yankees from going nearly full hog caste.

    One of my favorite MLB players for years now Brett will be the only Yankee on the roster who has won a World Series. He was a part time player in 2009 when they won. He batted .270 and stole 26 bases and was only caught 5 times that year. I would love to write his biography. The ultimate underdog he came from a small college to become an MLB regular for the most famous team in all of sports.

    Without doubt the team leader he will be an MLB manager sooner than later but he also is still a viable and speedy player of worth. Last season he set a career high in home runs and had one of his best seasons. See below respectful article by The Daily News.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/...0191212-yf3f2navr5bcrf6rfch56kna2q-story.html

    This signing pretty much assures Gardner will retire as a Yankee which is nice. How often do teams stick with a white player, especially one who plays a "speed position" for over ten years who isn't considered a "star?" Known for his grit and hustle he is my type of player. Much like football star Julian Edelman. But unlike Julian, Brett won't be a Hall Of Famer. But that's OK I still root for him like hell.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  3. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    I did some research regarding the "uniqueness" of the long term Yankee/Brett Gardner partnership. Indeed it is really unique especially for a white outfielder who hasn't been considered a star.

    Brett reached the majors in 2008 and was a 3rd round pick out of the College of Charleston in 2005. Like a lot of mid level college talent types he wasn't some 21 year old major league prodigy. He was never considered a sure thing and most figured he could slip in as an extra outfielder. He was around 25 when he made his MLB debut. We aren't talking Mike Trout here.

    He won a Gold Glove in 2016 and was named to the All Star team in 2015. In 2011 he tied for the lead in AL stolen bases with 49. In 2013 he led the AL in triples with 10. Those awards and stats do not compare to outfield contemporaries of his that have stayed with the same team for years like Alex Gordon (KC) and Ryan Braun (Brewers) who were both top 5 draft picks. And Gordon has been an All Star at least 3 times and has won 7 Gold Gloves. Braun has been an All Star more times than that and won an MVP too. Charlie Blackmon of the Rockies has also been a mainstay for years but he too has been a multi year All Star. Not sure I should count him since he was originally drafted by the Marlins?

    Only two current players who I could come up with vaguely resemble Gardner. Kole Calhoun has been with the Angels for about 8 years and Kevin Kiermaier has been patrolling CF for Tampa Bay for about 6 years. Neither are considered stars although KK is considered a top flight defender and has won multiple gold gloves. But these two still have a ways to go to match Gardner's stay with the Yankees. KK won his 3rd Gold Glove this past season and Calhoun has won one in his career.

    At the end of the day it is very unusual for a team to stick with a white or perhaps even a non white outfielder like Gardner for over a decade, a player who isn't considered a certifiable star. He dedicated himself to a new nutrition/ workout offseason coming off a down year in 2018 and it paid off. He played in 141 games and set a career high in home runs (28) and RBIs (74) and didn't wilt at the end of the season which had been a problem in past years. He ended up with a solid .251 average but when you factor in his long at bats and walks, not all that bad. And he is still a speedster even at 36 years old! His defense is rock solid. His leadership skills have been pronounced and all of his teammates look up to him.

    Again good for him and here is hoping Brett squeezes out another good year or two. The fact that he will get to retire as a Yankee, the team that drafted him, is a good story.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  4. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    Madison Bumgarner and The Arizona Diamonds have apparently reached an agreement. 5 years, 85 million. Preliminary reports had the Dodgers very interested. That would have been interesting had he gone to LA.
     
  5. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    MadBum strikes me as a conservative, country living kinda man. Maybe he wanted to get out of the liberal cesspools of Commiefornia? In Arizona he can get a nice ranch outside of Phoenix and go hunting and fishing up north a bit. Plus he gets to stay in the NL and bat. Seems like a good fit.
     
  6. Bucky

    Bucky Master

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  7. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    After an MLB investigation the Astros got whacked for their cheating schemes in 2017 the year they won the WS. They were fined five million and lost their first round draft picks for 2020 and 2021. Manager AJ Hinch was suspended for a year as was their GM. Then the owner promptly fired both of them.

    Meanwhile Red Sox manager and media hero Alex Cora was heavily implicated but his punishment won't come down until they finish their investigation on the Red Sox of 2018 the year they won the WS. Cora was an Astros bench coach in 2017 before becoming the Red Sox manager in 2018.

    Bitter irony here is that the loser in each of those tainted world series match ups was the very white LA Dodgers.

    Word is Cora is going to get nailed pretty good so don't expect him in the dug out for the Red Sox this season.

    The odd thing is AJ Hinch wasn't actively involved and even expressed distaste for the electronic cheating but he never banned it. The creepy cheat Astro players ( heavily non black position player team) claim they would have stopped the cheating if Hinch had put his foot down, the old throw somebody under the bus routine. The players suffered no punishments.

    I am sure Truthteller will have something to say about this development.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  8. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    The Red Sox reading the tea leaves have said goodbye to Alex Cora anticipating his soon to be announced suspension.

    Someone pointed out the Astros have low first round draft picks so the "penalty" isn't all that severe and neither is the drop in the bucket 5 million dollar fine. And I guess fearing litigation Manfred and the boys decided to let the players go free. Instead they nailed management.

    Then there is the case of Carlos Beltran who was the only player mentioned in the report but was not punished because he also was a player. Like Cora he was knee deep in the cheating scheme. The "problem" however is he was named the Mets manager. So while MLB baseball won't punish Beltran will the Mets back off after these reports? I would be a tad surprised if that happened.

    MLB did not mess with the Astros "international drafting budget" which pretty much follows their anti white pattern. This is a sport that is actively trying to reduce the number of white players. And turning the other cheek to allow non white foreign players to beat the drug testing with new sophisticated methods. And the media in this case has been totally silent.

    And not for nothing the biggest losers in this cheating scheme is the Dodgers the whitest team in baseball. Good grief the anti white theme in MLB these days runs deep. We don't even know if MLB knew all about this cheating but were forced to react after a former white pitcher from the Astros became a whistle blower?

    For a sport that is most popular with middle class white folk MLB runs things like some demented crime syndicate. As bad as the NFL and the NBA are MLB goes that extra mile to screw things up beyond repair.

    Cheating in baseball is nothing new. It has been a staple of the sport for ages. The one positive I take out of this is maybe this electronic stealing of signs ordeal will be curbed after all this is done.

    Of course baseball is not to be trusted on any level. They own the company who makes baseballs and they had them "study" the juiced ball situation. That is like asking DuPont to fund a study on the negative affects of some chemicals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  9. La France Blanche

    La France Blanche Mentor

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    The Astros "won" the 2017 Series 4 games to 3 (against the white-friendly Dodgers). In Game 5, the Dodgers scored 12 runs without knowing what pitches were coming. The Astros scored 13. How many of those runs were because of the cheating? All it had to be was one, and that would have changed everything.

    Also, it should be pointed out that if the situation were reversed (the white-friendly Dodgers cheating against the brown Latino Astros), this would be the biggest story in sports media, with endless sob stories about 'scriminayshun and uh-pression and Trump's fault, and the punishments would have been much harsher, likely with multiple white Dodger players/managers Pete Rosed (banned for life). But since it's brownie doing it to whitey, the sentence is modest, as is the size of the headlines.

    The players not getting punished - do the powers that be really expect us to believe that they all dindu nuffins?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  10. booth

    booth Mentor

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    For years sports teams and athletes have watch film to gain an advantage over their opponents. One of the best examples of this was the Louis vs Schmeling fight. Schmeling was a huge underdog in the fight, but he had seen a flaw in Louis's style and knock the negro out. Should Schmeling be punished for seeing something on tape he could use against Louis? Ever football, baseball, basketball team send scouts to games to see if they can pick up one thing to win the game, along with watching hours of tape. Why after all these years did MLB decide to take a moral stance on something that has been going on since the game was invented?
     
  11. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    In baseball trying to steal signs has always been part of the gamesmanship. But this was different. The Astros had a center-field camera fixed on the catcher's signs which was relayed to the dugout on a live-feed monitor. Once they figured out the signs, the pitch coming was relayed to the batter by banging garbage cans or whatever. A bit different than Louis vs Schmeling.
     
  12. booth

    booth Mentor

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    I guess what I was trying to ask was why did MLB decide now was the time to suspend and fined people for what has been going on forever and frankly has become part of the game. The stealing of signs is really a time- honored tradition in baseball. I have heard many ex-player talk about attempting to steal signs in their playing days. I will admit the Astros might have gone just a tad too far.
     
  13. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    MLB has nothing against the time-honored attempts to gain an advantage. The use of electronics to monitor and steal is what the violation is all about. And unlike the hit or miss (literally) nature of 1st and 3rd base coaches trying to figure out signs, a camera zoomed in while monitoring the pitches, and then relaying signs in from the dugout made it so that the hitters knew EXACTLY what was coming, no guessing required. That is a major cheat.
     
  14. Truthteller

    Truthteller Mentor

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    Booth, here is actually direct evidence of George Springer cheating and hitting a moonshot because of it. Poor, beleaguered Chris Flexen of the New York Mets, if the juiced balls and the rampant steroid abuse all around baseball isn't enough, he has to deal with slimy bench coaches like Alex Cora (Astros 2017) striking Trash Cans to signal his off speed pitches are on the way. Million kudos to Chicago White Sox pitcher Danny Farquhar for being able to realize the banging and cheating in real time, despite all the crowd noise....There is no way to spin this, what the Astros did was horrific, they basically rigged an entire season and cheated to win a World Series against a much better team. Also, think about the link above. George Springer is supposed to be a MVP caliber MLB player, a true "franchise player", yet he had to cheat against Chris Flexen, who recently left to play in Korea, after posting awful MLB stats for parts of the last three years? Why exactly did Springer need such an edge over Flexen?

    Booth, here is what an ex-Oakland A's player wrote in response to a question very similar to yours. This appears on a Dodgers message board. I think it's a great reply:

    As a former MLB player you are right. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. As long as you are doing it with your own two eyes from a position on the field such as a dugout or 2b. You see in baseball the players can police that. But when you are using technology to cheat it becomes something the players themselves cannot police and that my friend is not good for the game. I'm sad to see my former teammate caught up in this but he ****** knows better. He should have stopped it in its tracks.



    Great overall post Shadow. But to keep things brief, I'll focus on the point above. Yes, absolutely, MLB should've went after the Astros "international drafting budget" in a significant way. Perhaps barred them from signing foreign born players for one or two years, in addition to the draft picks being taken away?

    For all the high first round picks the Astros hit on last decade, fact remains they totally whiffed on two #1 overall picks (Appel & Aiken have never played in the Majors) and still built a World Series caliber team. Why should they fret merely losing two low first rounders and low second rounders that come out to like 70th overall, once compensation picks are added between round one and two?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  15. booth

    booth Mentor

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    If Logan Morrison is to be believe this was going on as far back as 2014 before Joey Cora was in the picture. He also threw the Yankees, Dodgers, and Phillies under the bus. This idea of using technology to steal signs supposedly came from Tony Larusso. Will MLB go after the two most famous franchises in baseball like they did Houston?
     
  16. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    That fake story on Trout has all the earmarks of a "let's change the subject" type of thing ( quick let's throw whitey under the bus to curb the damage) because there was some heat coming down on the "Latin connection" with this electronic cheating scandal. It was brought up that many foreign non white players had been lying about their ages and that a "pattern" of complete deception was developing. I wonder if more than a few people are aware of the new fangled way these Latin players are beating the drug system too? If more and more people catch on then they can easily discern the long pattern of deception going on here and that this new sign stealing scandal is but one aspect of it.

    Sadly MLB has been trying everything within it's means and then some to increase the number of non white foreign players so these kind of stories don't do them any favors. The quicker they change the subject the better for them. We still can't be sure if MLB knew this was going on at the time and let it go until a white whistleblower made it public? They knew about the steroids back when but let it ride since the money was flowing. They acted dumb after the floodgates opened but no one with a brain believes that. Yet they still put in ass plug Bud Selig into the Hall Of Fame. No hope folks.

    Granted cheating in baseball over the years hasn't just been made by foreign non white players but since the lynchpins in this case were Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran it stands to reason to follow the ugly rolling ball. And it doesn't lead to anything pretty.
     
  17. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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  18. La France Blanche

    La France Blanche Mentor

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    Fake news targeting the greatest baseball player of this generation. Trout is white and beloved by fans, therefore he must be attacked.
     
  19. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I didn't think Walker would get in but he made it in his last year of eligibility. He was without question a Hall of Fame talent but battled a lot of injuries, which makes him borderline to me, but he was Babe Ruth compared to the likes of Harold Baines so am glad he got in.

    Walker had a monster year in 1997, one of the very best seasons anyone's had since the days when there were .400 hitters -- 143 runs scored, 208 hits, 46 doubles, 33 stolen bases, 49 home runs, 130 RBIs, and a .366 batting average. He followed up that season by hitting .363 and .379 in '98 and '99, .309 in an injury marred '00, and then .350 in '01. His lifetime batting average is .313. A great hitter, fielder and runner, he could do it all.
     
  20. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    Once the bar was lowered with Rice and to a lesser extent Raines as last year candidates that were elected it seemed to be a no brainer to me that he should get elected and if he wasn't he was near lock to make it on the new seniors committee with Baines and friends making it.

    Baseball reporters talked about the Coors field statistical imbalance holding back some votes for Walker but I don't recall this being talked about much with Red Sox sluggers. Rice seemed to languish in purgatory because he fell off cliff after age 32 and had very borderline lifetime hitting stats and was a base clogger and stone glove in left field a position where weak outfielders are camouflaged by strong center fielders. Walker was a true 5 tool player that didn't take steroids (or if he did needed to sue his supplier.)....
     
  21. Freethinker

    Freethinker Hall of Famer

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    Really happy to see Larry Walker make the Hall as he was one of my favorite players to watch when I was growing up in the 90s.

    Walker really accomplished everything he could in terms of individual accolades but was never able to get that World Series Championship. He was traded to the Cardinals team that made it to the 2004 WS, but were unfortunately swept by Boston. This was a shame but really 1994 has to be thought of as the bigger “lost opportunity”.

    Recall that Walker was the best hitter, along with Moises Alou, on a Montreal Expos team which had the best record in baseball before the strike shortened the season. We’ll never know but if Walker finished up the season strong and Montreal finished with the best record, maybe he would have had a chance at the MVP, as well as a World Series title? Ironically the strike not only snuffed out Walker’s chance at a WS, it crushed any fleeting chance that baseball would remain in Montreal. The loss of revenue from a deep playoff run and fan excitement, coupled with a massive sell off of top players the following year, made their eventual move inevitable.
     
  22. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    At the end of the day I don't have a huge problem with Walker getting in but I am not going to be in the front row cheerleading either. Colorado's home park is a huge problem one has to sift through. In roughly equal amount of at bats Larry batted .348 at Coors Field and .278 away from home for his career. That is a huge .60 point difference and any way you slice it that is a revealing margin.

    As noted up above Larry had some big years and was one of the better all around athletes in the game when he played. He was also a true five tool player and for a spell was easily one of the top players in the game. I would have put Dale Murphy ahead of him but I've beaten that horse to death. But that said I would have voted Walker in.

    Another player who just missed getting in was P Curt Schilling. Because he received a 70% vote and there aren't a lot of slam dunks coming up in the next several years most experts figure he will get in as soon as next year. As I have mentioned before here I think he is a slam dunk candidate. He had a long and strange career ark but hell what a gutsy and tough winner.

    I couldn't stand SS Derek Jeter but I can't argue with his induction. But Jeter goes down in history as one of the most coddled athletes to ever suit up in the Big Apple. The media fawned over him to the point of nausea and now that that he fell one short of a 100% vote there are rumblings. How could someone do that has been the talk of the town today?

    But if character does matter for sure on the field Jeter was a leader and all that jazz and was a winner. I am not going to sit here and say otherwise. But off the field this lecher was out prowling around banging every supermodel type chick known to man. Obviously I am no prude( ha) and coming from me this may sound rich but even though most men would "secretly" like to have been in his shoes there was something unseemly about the way the NY media portrayed Jeter as some sort of Saint when in reality he was just another very shallow horn dog. He never went out with a chick who wasn't near the "10" category ( hell even Joe Namath slept around with a few non gorgeous types) and I don't know it just rubbed me the wrong way. I cannot recall a NY athlete who was worshipped as much as Jeter except perhaps LB Lawrence Taylor. Taylor by the way was one of the biggest jerks on the planet. And as it turned out a real creep.

    Among others 3B Scott Rolen didn't come close to the 50% mark and I don't believe he deserves to get in. He had some injury issues but when he was on he was a hell of a player with lightening quick reflexes and was just an overall terrific player with a quick bat. I was a big fan of his but he falls short. Rolen won seven gold gloves. He could pick it with the best of them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  23. booth

    booth Mentor

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    There are 331 players in the hall of fame. Only one was voted into the hall of fame unanimously, Mario Rivera which I disagree with. It just that I can't see a part- time player should be voted in unanimously when the greatest players ever played was not from Cobb to Mantle to Babe Ruth. I certainly believe pitchers belong in the hall but not the first year of eligibility and not a relief pitcher especially one voted into the hall unanimously. The great Christy Mathewson once said, "A pitcher was not a baseball player."This is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.
     
  24. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Another huge move. I can't stand him but admit he is a hell of a five tool talent the Red Sox have traded Mookie Betts to the Dodgers. I do not believe the Dodgers had to part ways with their young stud IF Gavin Lux who is penciled in as their starting 2B this season.

    I can't recall a recent off season where so many big name players have switched teams. This move is startling. Although because Betts is a FA next year the rumors have suggested the Red Sox will move Betts for payroll reasons ( he is going to ask for a fortune next year) I am still a bit shocked they would trade such a popular player. It reminds me of the time the Red Sox parted ways with CF Fred Lynn and then C Carlton Fisk. Two ultra talented highly popular players who were hugely popular that were shockingly given the heave ho. Hell Fisk was a fellow New Englander.

    Baseball is a tricky sport to predict before the season but it sure seems like the Dodgers and the Yankees are on a collision course for the World Series.

    I think the Dodgers parted ways with OF Alex Verdugo, a good player but no great loss but I don't know the rest of the details of the trade.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  25. Johnny Tightlips

    Johnny Tightlips Guru

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    Mookie Betts and David Price to the Dodgers for a haul of players that more than likely includes Alex Verdugo
     

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