2019 NFL Draft

Discussion in 'NFL' started by Extra Point, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. sport historian

    sport historian Master

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    The mid-60's Cardinals wouldn't have had a play called "n****** go deep." Their receivers, Wide outs Sonny Randle and Bobby Jo Conrad, and TE Jackie Smith, were white.

    I recall the expression though. It was in Dan Jenkins' 1972 novel, "Semi-Tough." Oddly, the protagonist of the novel, Billy Clyde Puckett, was a white running back with Jim Brown's physical talent. The character was from Jenkins' high school and college, Paschal High in Fort Worth and TCU.

    The reviewers of the time were either too stupid or didn't want to admit it, but there was a 60's white RB who fit the description, Joe Don Looney, who went to Paschal High. In a 1971 book, Fran Tarkenton said: "Joe Don Looney blew out of Oklahoma with the credentials to be another Jimmy Brown."

    Unfortunately, Looney was the Johnny Manziel of his day.
     
  2. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm sure you're right, "Semi-Tough" would be where I remember that play from.
     
  3. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    I'm not sure if the Cardinals are perpetual caste drafters because of a true philosophy or because the organization is very cheap when it comes scouting and retaining football management.

    If you look at the AFC equivalent to the Cardinals the Bungles it's also a family run team with a frugal bent to them. The Bungles run the team like a hot dog stand or the way NFL and AFL teams were run in the 60's because of low revenues and poorer owners. I know the Bungles literally have all of the family net worth tied into the team and as of a few years ago had no GM and the senior Brown he may be in the early stages of senility, he refuses to listen to any sense from anybody.

    If you aren't committed to analytics or thinking outside the box then your team will regard scouting service grades as the bible. As we have seen with the various busts over the years, these scouts are far from Moses atop Mount Sinai.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  4. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    It's official, everyone's favorite diminutive Heisman Trophy winning QB Kyler Murray is going the football route and declining to play minor-league ball for the Oakland A's. It shouldn't surprise anyone. Now the media can go all-in on the hype train for him. Prepare yourself for many gag-inducing puff pieces as they try to get Murray drafted first overall.
     
  5. Extra Point

    Extra Point Hall of Famer

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    The mainstream media made a big deal about Baker Mayfield's height and the system he played in.

    I'll bet they do the opposite with Murray. They'll minimize his height and argue it's not that important. They'll minimize the impact of the system he played in.
     
  6. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Normally all this wild hype surrounding this munchkin Murray, and believe me it is off the charts the past few days, would bother me but now that I am still basking in the Patriots SB win I can handle these matters with bemusement.

    I know this site is not seen as a "legitimate" sports source due to it's 'slant" ( which I would argue is a usually a good slant), it needs to be pointed out that I can't think of another sports media outlet that called his "baseball bluff" out earlier and more pronounced than myself and others here at CF.

    We figured right. No way was this media hound going to toil away in anonymity in the swampy pastures of the minor leagues although he could return to the scene of the crime if the NFL doesn't work out. A real possibility folks. Besides sports such as baseball, golf and tennis are the most difficult to master at the high end whereas football is the easiest.

    What is strange and a little surprising even for someone jaded like me is how Murray has suddenly mutated into a possible number one pick. Rumors are flying all over the place. Many think Gruden will bite if the Cardinals don't or some team will jump up to grab this risky player.

    For me he is too small all around but time will tell. But surely the consensus number one pick in the draft and still in my mind the best player in the draft, Nick Bosa, is the least talked about number one type pick I can ever recall. And it isn't because he is a DE either. We had to hear miles of hype surrounding Myles Garrett and J Clowney as recent examples of black "supermen." And frankly Bosa is to me a better prospect than those two overhyped specimens.

    But again as mentioned many times the media has a special place in their heart for fast athletic black QBs who "might" be able to pass too just witness the Lamar Jackson lovefest or going back to RG3 and especially Michael Vick. And for all the hype surrounding Mahomes The Chiefs ended up where they likely would have if much maligned QB Alex Smith was still with them.

    Meanwhile QB Josh Allen, who had so much less to work with I can't even begin to list them, isn't seen as one of the exciting new faces in the NFL?

    Once again the media gets a woody over another "potential" run/pass black QB I still won't let it ruin my post SB mood and I am especially looking forward to this draft. Based on the combine invites I am hoping this trend of loading up with all black and usually terrible defenses starts to ease. Including white DBs in the mix is another must do but we will have to wait for that day although I will comment on a white
    HS CB star who has caught my attention.

    I wouldn't get too rattled by all this hype noise surrounding Murray and other "black supermen." The Patriots won a SB with two starting white WRs and a significant back up white RB. Sooner or later this "white thing" might stick better now than in the past.

    Of course I am looking at everything with rose colored glasses at the moment and my mind could turn dark in an instant but for now I am watching things calmer than usual.
     
  7. Bucky

    Bucky Mentor

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    I've seen Murray mocked to Jaguars at Number 7 pick in countless mock drafts. At this point I just find it comical. Let the 5'8 180lb QB play. He quick,but he's one clean hit away from IR.

    The pressure is on for Andrew Wingard. Lone White DB invited to the combine. It would be awesome for him to run in 4.4 range, though mid 4.5 range is more likely. IDC though, based on tape he should be a lock as a 4-7th Rd pick.

    Wouldn't consider Rapp white, but I'll cheer for him. Along with Wingard, he's the only other actual diversity amongst the DBs invited to the NFL Combine!

    Chris Johnson should have garnered an invite. Tall and rangy Safety. Would have been interesting to see him run. Snyder, Gervase, Baldwin all ignored...
     
  8. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    One of the many rumors surrounding Murray is that Arizona will pick him at number one and trade Rosen, perhaps to New England.

    I actually hope they do pick Murray. Not only do I dislike the Cards, whose history has been much discussed here of late, I just think it is one of the dullest football towns out there. Tampa Bay and their awful pig swamp field, is another one and there are a few others. And I don't want DE Nick Bosa being stuck out there if they took him instead. It is too anonymous playing in Arizona. And if Arizona does tag Murray it allows the 49ers to grab Bosa, which would be a much better destination for him.

    Most cite the new Arizona HC anxious to make a big splash. Problem with that is the GM who picked Rosen is still there so that puts a damper on things.

    At the end of the day I would love to see the Cardinals grab Murray at number one and then after all the hype realize they made a fatal error and he ends up crawling back to baseball in three to four years and the Cardinals become the laughing stock of the NFL. And of course Murray becomes nothing more than a minor league chump.
     
  9. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Inevitably during the draft unknown black skill players (WR or DB usually) start getting their names called. What starts as a trickle ends in an avalanche. There are always a few 5'9" 178 black "speedsters" from back wood colleges that have the gurus salivating.

    Wouldn't it be refreshing if late round picks weren't just the same ole "close your eyes throw the dart at the black dartboard" routine but a well researched intelligent move to fill up a roster with a meaningful player?

    A perfect example of that is BC's Michael Walker the premier special teams return man available in this draft. These clowns make the NFL draft seem so complicated but in reality it is more a course in common sense, something generally lacking in today's NFL brass.

    You plug Walker in as a PR/KR and ST defender. Then as a bonus he might end up as solid WR to boot. Safe, intelligent pick even if the gurus are out there following some untalented black sap from nowhere. They want no part of Walker. An explosive white return man doesn't sit well with them it seems.

    Below is an interview with Walker. Will a team have the nerve to draft him? Probably not since cowardice wins out nearly every draft season but it is absurd that teams would ignore such a talented game disrupter. If I have posted this interview before I apologize in advance.

    https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2...aft-introducing-michael-walker-boston-college
     
  10. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    There are more than a few terrific white prospects who were not invited to the combine. Michael Walker above is one of them and so is WR Scott Miller, yet another versatile player than can play special teams. I am looking forward to seeing Miller's workout times. I expect very fast times. He has jet speed. The NFL has consistently left off many white speedsters off the combine invite list through the years and it seems deliberate.

    The pro day workout schedules, which begin March 5th, have been released and you will want to jot down a few key dates. Just a small sampling below.



    March 19- Bowling Green (Scott Miller)

    March 20 -BC ( Michael Walker)

    March 21 Cal- (Patrick Laird)

    If it was up to me which it isn't of course here is where I believe these players should get drafted.

    Walker-6th round

    Miller-6th round

    Laird-6th round

    One other so called "sleeper" prospect is NC LB Cole Holcomb who I had mentioned in an earlier post.
    Holcomb was very impressive during East West Shrine week. His pro day is March 25th and expect some eye popping numbers. His speed is off the charts and he is a first rate athlete at 6'1 235.

    Holcomb is another easy 6th round pick because beyond LB a team is getting a ready made ST player as well. Underrated and should have been invited to the combine but as is the case so often very fast white prospects are often left out of the combine.
     
  11. Deceptive Speed

    Deceptive Speed Mentor

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    I can't believe Patrick Laird hasn't got a sniff of interest from the NFL. At this point it looks like he might not even end up in a teams camp. It seems Laird seems is fine using his smarts at a job in the real world. His numbers alone should get him atleast a camp invite, but I feel his numbers may not have been crazy enough to get NFL coaches to look past his whiteness.

    However the future still looks good for White RB's, with the 2020/2021 drafts looking better than ever. Our best prospect is WASH St's (Fr) sensation Max Borghi 5'10 195 who's already getting NFL hype! Not far behind him is Illinois' So. Mike Epstein 6'0 205 who's also getting NFL interest but to lesser degree!

    Then there's 2 "longshots" (as of right now) but should gain NFL traction as the season goes. First is WAKE's brusing Jr. Cade Carney 5'11 215 who rushed for 1000 yds this season, but needs to build on that to gain NFL attention. The other one is WASH So. Sean Mcgrew 5'8 185 who has talent and seems to be on track for sundays, but I still feel Washington might screw him out if carries because his size that some list 5'7 180....
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  12. chris371

    chris371 Mentor

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    That Laird has received no Interest is a joke....
     
  13. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Given Laird's production the past two seasons he deserved a combine invite no question's asked. Not only were his rushing figures top notch for a well below level talent wise offense he has caught nearly 100 passes the past two seasons and in this new NFL where RB versatility pays off big (see Rex Burkhead) it is ridiculous that Laird was shunned. Factor in his character which is top flight it really is shameful.

    And RB TJ Oullette, another versatile RB who put up huge numbers the past two seasons also deserved an invite.

    And even though I call the other players I mentioned above "sleepers" they really shouldn't be considered that. Michael Walker, Scott Miller and Cole Holcomb put up astounding stats the past two or three years. Combine that with their obvious athletic talent one would think they would be shoe ins for a combine invite.

    But the carefully controlled combine lists always ensures black skill players will shine and even though I am looking forward to it which starts this week, I know damn well I will have that sick feeling I get after every combine after the media goes into full caste drooling mode.
     
  14. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    The combine workouts start Friday.

    The combine is one of the caste central outlets in sports. It frames the debate each season by illustrating the "speed" superiority of black players, especially the DB/WR/RB nexus.

    You will often hear the term fastest players in the NFL and the basis they use is the well rested 40 yard dash. But who came down from the mount to proclaim the 40 yard dash is the end all when it comes to speed?

    In fact in the real world the fastest runners are determined by the 100 meter dash. One could possibly use the 100 yard dash as a substitute for sports like football. Hell even baseball uses the 60 yard dash.

    But no the media has decided that the 40 yard dash is engraved in stone when it comes to determining the fastest runners.

    This is an artificial number and doesn't relate to speed on the playing field as much as the media wants you to know.

    I have mentioned this before and although a few minor media outlets have questioned the 40 yard dash most just think that it is only true barometer of speed.

    I would do away with the combine because it seems to me it is designed to maximize black players in general and eliminates too many real football players which is why you have seen the quality of the game deteriorate.

    Some of the greatest players in the history of the game weren't "fast" 40 yard dash players.

    RB Emmitt Smith ran around a 4.6 plus and WR Jerry Rice was roughly 4.68. Tom Brady was turtle like in his 40 and Paul Hornung wasn't anywhere near a 4.4 or even a 4.5 time.

    So why did Jerry Rice run past so called 40 yard dash speedster CBs his entire career? The media had no answers other than his playing speed plays faster whatever the hell that means.

    How about he was faster than the CBs? Is that too difficult to grasp. I guess so since everyone has their heads so far up the 40 yard dash canal they can't see the light.

    So I look past the way they frame this 40 yard dash but of course I and others here hope the white athletes turn the tables and run fast 40 yard dash times. It helps to destroy the narrative they want to represent each go around. Believe me I will be on pins and needles when the white skill players run their 40 yard dash at the combine.

    But ultimately, if I were a scout, I just want to see a player stay within a reasonable time zone. Running Backs that run a 4.6 plus or even a low 4.70 shouldn't be cause for alarm. Many great RBs have run in the 4.6 plus range. It is mostly about vision, balance, power, agility and first step burst. Ideally you want Wide Receivers around 4.5 plus or faster but a sub 4.65 time shouldn't be a deal breaker either. Anything over 4.7 would be a cause for alarm though for Wide Receivers.

    Of course not all of the black skill players run great times and I could care less what some fat OL runs. But every year the fastest top ten times are dominated by black players. It helps their cause that every year several white speedsters are not invited which to me is no coincidence.

    But until they have the players run 100 yard dashes I take this whole speed thing with a grain of salt. Too bad the media swallows it whole and inevitably the black 40 yard dash specialists overtake the entire combine every stinking year. It is tough to take because it further piles on the narrative which is so deeply engrained you wonder if the fog will ever lift. And it becomes more corrosive each passing season.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  15. Leonardfan

    Leonardfan Hall of Famer

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    Good post Shadowlight. Honestly the 40 time is the only thing all the dwfs/draft "experts" and probably a majority of personnel people seem to emphasize. I would attribute the watered down product we see on the field as a direct result of years of obsessing over the 40. It's the only drill that is talked about - the agility and strength drills which whites score higher one are never mentioned or talked about - nor is the bench press. If a white player excels at the bench press it is because he has short arms. They always throw a caveat in there when a white athlete performs well.
     
  16. Extra Point

    Extra Point Hall of Famer

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    Yes they do. If a white athlete runs a fast 40 they'll say "he doesn't play to that speed." If he runs a good 3 cone they'll add he had a mediocre 40.

    They usually don't say something positive about a white athlete in a clear cut way.
     
  17. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    They are currently in the measurements stage at the combine and today it is the Saturday workout crowd of QBs, WRs and TEs. And like clockwork a lot of the black wide receivers have expansive wingspans as opposed to the shorter arms and wingspans of white WRs.

    Neither Renfrow, Isabella or even Cody Thompson measured with good length or hand size but who gives a flying crap. Unfortunately the guardians of the gate think this stuff is important so it will likely adversely affect their draft status which has been a running theme for white WRs for ages now. Scouts are enthralled with long armed black WRs even if they can't actually run proper patterns or catch the ball with regularity. All the more reason I hope the white WRs run fast 40 times.

    So as they measure the genital sizes--oops Freudian slip-- I meant height, weight, arm length, hand size etc. the moment everyone has waited for has arrived. They say Kyler Murray is 5-10 and 1/8 and 207 pounds. Plus his hand size is around average.

    I have always felt they often cheat when it comes to the 40 yard dash for "certain" black players so I can't rule out these measurements being a bit suspect either. Because he doesn't look that tall to me. I could have sworn he looks about 5'8" plus and less than 200 pounds?

    Be that as it may Murray will not throw or perform any of the drills at the combine. He will wait until his pro day to throw and presumably run but I caution all here that Oklahoma pro day times are the most notoriously inflated so if he runs a 4.3 you have to automatically add at least another .1 to that time. Trouble is the media won't and will take what he runs at face value. And the love affair will continue unabated.

    Since he "passed" the measurement test ( albeit he is still undersized) rumors will fly even more. I think it is possible that Arizona trades Rosen and grabs him at number one which to me would be a relief because I don't want Nick Bosa landing on that stale team. And let Murray sink in that caste hole Cardinals team. Another rumor is the Raiders will nab him at three which means Derek Carr is out but I think that is less likely.

    Other scenarios have teams trading way up to nab Murray.

    I am watching all this on the sidelines thinking which team will be the biggest sucker and that alone is interesting even though the caste mind set of the media at these combines is hellish to absorb. The drooling and hyping is unfathomable. And it will be especially awful this go around.

    There will be many black superheroes and one that is getting a lot of attention is bodybuilder/speedster WR DK Metcalf. The guy looks like he swallowed the entire steroid packet.
     
  18. Extra Point

    Extra Point Hall of Famer

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    If I were the Cardinals I would try to sign Nick Foles. They could afford to keep both Rosen and Foles.

    Then I'd draft Nick Bosa.
     
  19. northwinds

    northwinds Mentor

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    Just saw where Georgia RB Elijah Holyfield ran a blistering 4.78 forty at the combine............
     
  20. FootballDad

    FootballDad Hall of Famer

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    But he plays faster than his 40, has “burst” “wiggle” and other black-only non-measurables. Not to mention a room-brightening smile and mouth-watering upside.....
     
  21. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    he prolly have dat wrist flick, too, mane. LOL
     
  22. Bucky

    Bucky Mentor

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    Average RB 40 time was 4.58! Slow!
     
  23. TomIron361

    TomIron361 Guru

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    I love it that the two black qbs are being touted like they are. I hope they go in the top ten. Whatever teams take them will set themselves back 4-5 years or so. I'm just happy the Jets are set. Otherwise you know they'd be moving heaven and earth to get one of those losers - It's just what the Jets do.
     
  24. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    The captions around his name was son of the former heavyweight champion. I never saw future undersized blocking back, his drafting is the scouting bias in a nutshell, unless a White running back was 250+ he wouldn't get an invite with any time like that.

    Does anybody know what Ingold ran in the 40?
     
  25. Bucky

    Bucky Mentor

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    4.89 for Ingold
     

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