2019 MLB Season

Discussion in 'Baseball' started by knightedsoldier5000, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    The MLB network will televise the Hall Of Fame Veteran's Ballot results this Sunday night. I have seen all of these players play and below is my ballot if you will.

    I have four categories.

    1-no

    2-close but no

    3-can't make up my mind

    4-yes

    1-no--Ted Simmons and Lou Whitaker. Simmons was just an average defender and while a great hitting catcher I just can't pull the trigger. Whitaker was a solid above average dependable player and teamed up with SS Alan Trammell to make a terrific double play combo. But Hall Of Fame? Come on.

    2-close but no--Dave Parker who I have very close and a tad less close Dwight Evans and Steve Garvey. Parker had a gun in RF and was an imposing figure but at the end he promised more than he delivered. Evans was as good as it gets in RF and he too had a rifle. He benefits for having his best batting seasons later in his career but to me Jim Rice and Fred Lynn were superior players and Evans just falls short. Lynn of course faltered but when he was on Evans couldn't compare. Garvey was a very good at times excellent player and had a keen eye but lacks the pizzazz we expect from Hall Of Famers.

    3-Can't make up my mind--Tommy John ( I probably could be persuaded) and Thurman Munson whose career was obviously cut short dying in a plane accident. Since I like real catchers who can defend and call a game Munson certainly qualifies. Like Fisk and Bench, Munson was a take command catcher. Munson was an excellent hitting catcher too. Blocking pitches and throwing out runners is still a very important staple for catchers which is why Johnny Bench is the greatest catcher to have ever lived. To go along with his defensive gifts Bench was a great power hitter. I just don't know if Munson was able to compile enough great years and this is coming from someone who favors quality over quantity. Tommy John had a long strange career. A crafty pitcher who relied on trickery rather than a blazing fastball he of course is best known for his elbow injury. His best seasons were later on but he was always difficult to hit and had a low ERA. On the fence but it wouldn't take much for someone to make a good argument and tip me over to the yes column.




    4-yes--Don Mattingly who was incredible for several years and was a top flight defensive player. Most question if he had enough great years to qualify? Legitimate concerns. Dale Murphy is my first pick out of this lot and he has already been discussed at length here. I would be shocked and very disapponted if he isn't chosen.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  2. Flint

    Flint Mentor Staff Member

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    I disagree on your quick dismissal of Lou Whitaker. Bill James rated him the 13th best 2nd baseman of all time ahead of Hall of Famers Billy Herman, Nellie Fox, Joe Gordon, Bobby Doerr, Tony Lazzeri, Johnny Evers, Red Schoendienst, Bill Mazeroski, and Bid McPhee.

    2nd base is not a corner outfield position and they shouldn't be compared offensively. Whitaker was a rookie of the year, won gold gloves, was in All Star games and was the premier 2nd baseman of the 1980's. He belongs in there with his keystone partner Alan Trammell.
     
  3. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    After doing my research, Dale Murphy without a doubt the most deserving. If he gets in, I wouldn't complain, but again, how far down does the line have to go. Because, as I've said, if Murphy gets in, then Dave Parker probably should. I like Munson as well, but yes his career was cut short.
    Many good players on the list, but it's not the Hall of good players. To me it's the Hall of the BEST/Greatest players. IMO.
     
  4. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    I don't think they should "adjust" things due to his position. As for being the premier 2B of the 1980's you are forgetting the Cubs Ryne Sandberg who in my mind was superior to Lou. 2B is a bit like left field, not the most important position on the field. Certainly SS and likely 3B pay a bigger role in defensive terms. Sandberg by the way is in the HOF.

    But I can appreciate Tiger fan's affection for Whitaker and there is a sentimental push so he can join his double play partner Trammell. Like Carolina Speed says though where do we draw the line?

    He could get in who knows. For me I just can't pull the trigger.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  5. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    This second baseman is the MLB leader in career HR's by a second baseman, 377, Won an MVP, scored 1320 runs, 2461 hits, 560 doubles, 1518 RBI's career .290 career BA, .500 career SLG. is NOT in the HOF.
    Who is he?
     
  6. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Arrogant bastard that I am that is a layup question. I got in on first guess. Jeff Kent. Is he HOF material? That is another question altogether.
     
  7. icsept

    icsept Master

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    I never thought of Jeff Kent as a hall of famer. But, his offensive numbers are better than Joe Morgan’s .271 BA, 2517 hits, 268 HRs, and 1113 RBI. Kent played in the “steroid era” when everybody’s numbers were inflated compared to the 1970s and 80s. Another reason Dale Murphy should be given extra credit.
     
  8. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    Well I'll be damned. The results are in and they inverted my picks practically to a tee. In other words the two players I picked, Mattingly and Murphy received the fewest votes. Also the other two picks I couldn't make up my mind on were also sitting at the bottom of the barrel vote wise (John and Munson).

    Meanwhile my definite no Ted Simmons was the only player to be selected. Marvin Miller was selected too but I have no skin on that pick.

    Dave Parker came the closest along with Dwight Evans. Lou Whitaker was right behind them.

    Obviously I disagree with these results although I do agree players like Parker and Evans should be thought of as close.

    Just one more reason I have lost most of my respect for MLB. In my mind it is laced with fraud and to think Dale Murphy was the least thought of in this group? They even have a so called "character clause" but apparently the fools that voted are just plain clueless in my book.

    There was so much positivity surrounding Murphy going into tonight. What the hell happened? Some commentators are baffled. Can baseball do anything right anymore?

    Harold Baines anyone?
     
  9. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    None of them should make it. If they didn't get in when they were eligible they shouldn't keep getting chances, including Murphy who I'd love to see make it. What's next, participation trophies?
     
  10. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    I agree. I said the same thing many posts ago.
     
  11. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Master

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    All I know is Dale Murphy didn't get his "kiddie trophy" and Ted Simmons did.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  12. white is right

    white is right Hall of Famer

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    This new voting is as strange as ever, Marvin Miller who was long overdue to be in will go in with his urn attending the ceremony and Ted Simmons who never got even 5 percent to stay on the ballot for one year is in.

    About Mattingly baseball writers seem to punish players that have truncated careers due to injuries, if Don Mattingly were an NFL running back you could argue he was similar to Davis and at his peak his hitting was similar to Sayers' running ability. Even hockey and basketball have admitted injury plagued superstars like Lindros and Bure and McGrady and Ming.

    If you had me selecting Munson would be a better pick than Simmons as he was a team leader on the great late 70's Yankee's teams. It's not a coincidence that when he suddenly died in plane crash the Yankees 79' season tanked hard.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  13. Don Wassall

    Don Wassall Administrator Staff Member

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    So a player that never received even five percent of the vote when he was eligible is now a Hall of Famer??? Ridiculous, well beyond ridiculous. As I used to post every year, the Veterans Committee or whatever it's called now, should have been disbanded when it achieved its original objective of enshrining players from the early 20th century before the Hall began in 1936. But it's like a bureaucracy or other government agency, it can never go away, it always expands and becomes more annoying and purposeless. A perfect microcosm of what went wrong with the American Experiment of limited government turned totalitarian, world-straddling empire while everyone pretends it still has connections to the original Constitution.
     
  14. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    Jeff Kent, I believe was a strong proponent for steroid testing. At 6'1: 185, I don't think Kent was ever bloated up like Barry Bonds. Bonds went from 185 to 228. Kent was more than likely stronger than Joe Morgan who was 5'7, 160 lbs. What makes his numbers even more impressive is, he put up most of his big numbers while playing in San Francisco. Not exactly a hitters ball park.
    Kent was said to have not taken any crap off of Bonds and they got in to it a few times. He was also not a friend of the press, and not the best defensively, which has hurt his chances as well.
    As an MVP and the all time HR leader, 377 among second basemen. Along with all of the other offensive numbers Hard to believe he's not in the HOF.
     

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