2017 NBA Draft

Discussion in 'NBA' started by Shadowlight, Mar 23, 2017.

  1. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    I would prefer to start talking about the NBA draft after the NFL draft but I couldn't help notice that former Memphis and short lived Virginia star Austin Nichols has declared for the NBA draft. At nearly 6'10" Nichols is long and athletic but remains a mystery to me. Virginia Head Coach Bennett recently reiterated that Nichols was kicked off the team for good. Details were never made public which makes you think the infraction was very serious but I don't like all this murky stuff. Is Bennett protecting the player or is he just being a jerk about the whole ordeal? At this rate we will never know but Virginia sure could have used Nichols during the tournament where they got clobbered by Florida.
    Nichols was not NBA ready but had potential. His shooting range the last time I saw him at Memphis was not fully developed but had potential for improvement. He needed more strength too. The latest pics of him show a more mature NBA type body but you wonder about the two full years off from competitive basketball and of course the issues concerning his apparent problem at Virginia. I don't think NBA types are very patient with young white guys who might have character issues. A nice talent I hope he makes it. Who knows?
     
  2. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    The floodgates have opened. First Tyler Lydon and now Markkanen and Leaf have entered the NBA draft. Is Kennard maybe Zach Collins and even Grayson Allen next? I have made my feelings clear on this issue and suffice to say I am not happy about this turn of events. Then again what the hell is there to be happy about anymore? Life is a low down grind might as well accept it like the Brits with a stiff upper lip. Easier said than done.
    Obviously I will be rooting like hell for these guys to succeed but I don't think they fully realize they are entering the twilight zone.
     
  3. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Luke Kennard is going pro. Hard to evaluate. Not as quick as Reddick but a little more vertical. Does not in my mind have a huge upside due to speed issues and I think he is leaving a year too early. Solid NBA contributor down the road is a possibility though since he does have an intriguing offensive game and can nail the three. What makes this interesting is Duke next season. If Grayson Allen stays, which he should, Duke has 6'6" lanky shooting guard Alex O' Connell coming in. No he isn't listed as a top 50 player but he hovers between 60 and 75 but unlike Kennard he is a high flying athlete. As they say the kid has UPS. One of the best white athletes to ever commit to Duke in recent times so with Kennard leaving it opens up some playing time for this new kid on the block. As for Grayson Allen if he stays and behaves I think in general he will become a popular figure despite the usual white player Duke hating throng which has become an ugly and unfortunately media accepted tradition. All indications I have heard is he is a great guy who made a few boneheaded plays on the court nothing more. If he keeps his nose to the grindstone and improves his senior year a lottery pick for 2018 is not out of the question. And I have noticed the college basketball TV people are becoming more fond of kids who stick around instead of jumping to the NBA and for good reason. A guy like Allen gets TV ratings.
     
  4. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    Shadowlight, you have a valid point in regards to a lot of these guys leaving early is a mistake without refining their skills(McRoberts, Zimmerman, Joe Alexander come to mind). Kennard has good size for a SG, can shoot with the best of them and of course underrated leaper and athlete. He shocked a lot of people this year with his dominant play including us! Kid can ball.

    Plus I'd like to add 90% of the guys entering the NBA Draft are far from polished, explosive upside affletes that can't do the basics. Bounce pass, defense, free throws, etc. Growing pains for everyone.

    **100% agree with you on Lydon. He should have came back and worked on that jumper as should have Leaf who is more of a complete player but They would have been go to guy's on National Powerhouse Universities.. Damn. I can see the Big limber Fin Markannen having an immediate impact as a rookie, I was REALLY impressed every time I saw that Kid play, can really move and score for a 7footer.

    Guess it's next man up! 2017-18 NCAA will bring us new breakout stars to cheer for!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  5. Riggins44

    Riggins44 Master

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    I think Kennard would benefit also from another year, but he is more ready than Lydon. Lydon is a good athlete but his basketball skills are immature. He needs to add at least 20 pounds of muscle to be able to play the stretch 4. He was also not assertive enough on the offensive end last year. TJ Leaf should have stayed another year but he is more ready than Lydon. I really don't know much about Austin Nicholls so I can't comment on him. Markannen would have benefitted from another year but after a year or two in the league he may be a budding all-star, that kid is big and has serious skills. I'm not that worried about Kennard or Markannen. I am dissappointed about Leaf and Lydon.
     
  6. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Quick report on recent Nike Hoop Summit which pits an American team of under 19 players against a foreign contingent. The USA team was entirely black. What the hell else is new.The foreign teams of recent vintage have been moving in that blackish direction. There were three whites and all are frontcourt players. 6'9" Sedekerskis made no impression and I sense we will never see or hear about him again. 6' 11"Borisa Simanic is a rangy athlete but looked lost which often happens when you play with a bunch of black ball hogs I think he put his name in for the NBA draft but he would be better suited to attend college. Again I wouldn't think he will make any impact at least for a long while if ever. The true stand out was German 7'1" Isaiah Hartenstein. An active athlete he needs to polish up but I can see why many project him as a first round draft pick this year. Kind of like a slightly more advanced Zach Collins.
     
  7. Deceptive Speed

    Deceptive Speed Mentor

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    I wouldn't discard TADAS SEDEKERSKIS ( had to paste his name couldn't spell it lol) just yet. Draft Express still has him at pick 28 in the first round, although he may fall now from what you said is true. Also SF Rodions Kurucs 6'8 hails from Latvia and plays for Barcelona, is projected to go at pick 20. Alec Peters at pick 32, got injured at the end of the season but should bounce back.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  8. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Most experts had Kurucs going in the 2018 draft but I believe he declared and now this is talk whoever drafts him will stash him away in Europe for a couple of years. I have seen some footage of him and by most accounts he is very athletic and can shoot the three. He is one to watch no doubt about it. I also like Simanic's athleticism but he is not ready to step into the NBA. He needs time to develop and college would be a good thing for him but I think once you declare you forfeit the college route even if you are a foreigner?
     
  9. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Updates worth noting. Hartenstein, Simanic and Kurucs have not officially declared for the NBA draft. Cut off date is the 23rd. Also it appears Grayson Allen might stay in school but that is not 100%. I am almost positive Hartenstein is declaring.
     
  10. Carolina Speed

    Carolina Speed Master

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    For me, I think it depends if you think your stock will get any higher. I think McRoberts left after his freshman year. He really hadn't done a whole lot at Duke before he left. Where as someone like Tyler Hansbrough UNC, I believe, won just about everything and was like 23 years old as a junior in college. His stock was not going any higher after his junior year. He should have went on to the NBA after his junior year.
    Was Grayson Allen's stock going any higher than after his freshman year? He almost single handily won Duke the National Championship! Normally, I'd say no to a freshman, but as an athletic "white" player from Duke. The media and fans were just waiting for him to make a mistake and he did. It may have cost him. I would've told Allen to go after his freshman year, all things considered. With Kennard he was almost the ACC POY. Will his stock go any higher? Only if he wins it next year. He could get injured, the DWF's could demonize him, etc.. Kennard probably should go before his own race kills it for him. BTW, I think Kennard is a lot quicker and more athletic than Redick. Redick is great shooter, but was very flat-footed at Duke. That's not a shot at a white player, it's just the truth. To his credit, he has gotten better in the NBA.
    Bottom line, if your white and have an outstanding freshman or sophomore year as did Allen and Kennard, you better go.
    Gordon Hayward was a classic example. He left Butler after his sophomore year. He was the conference POY and had went to the National Championship and almost knocked off Duke. He hasn't looked back since.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  11. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Add Zach Collins to the list. This is unprecedented four white college underclassmen declaring and all are projected to go in the first round. I still think it is better for them and the caste world in general if these guys would stick around college for at least three years but like so many things in modern society today I can only sit back and watch it happen. Would much rather see them grab all the glory and media attention they would receive if they stayed in school and I fear this will leave a vacuum in college basketball the next couple of years simply because the 2017 and 2018 white prospects are for the most part down the totem pole and not likely to get drafted. The four front court guys that did declare were all pretty much rated in the top 20 except for Lydon who hovered around the top 50. We must also recognize they might not play much in the NBA for a while and that could stretch into three seasons. That said I am not a total Grinch and will enjoy the sight of white guys being announced on draft night. And I will be rooting hard for them to succeed of course. But I would prefer they walk into an NBA clubhouse with a college degree and more overall maturity who can stand up for themselves. They are chasing the security of the money but in the long run I am not convinced the early exit out of college is the best avenue for them as players and people.
     
  12. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Never hurts to mention these things even if it goes nowhere. Canyon Barry, son of the great Rick Barry, posted the best no step vertical at a recent mid level NBA camp of 38 and a half inches. I guess they stopped the regular vertical leap procedure. To translate Barry has a vertical leap of about 42 to 44 inches or more!! He also posted the fastest 3/4 court sprint at 3.11 which is impressive for a 6'5" player. Barry played for a small school before transferring for one season at Florida. Why wasn't he playing at a big school from the start? He showed flashes at Florida especially three point shooting and a dead eye underhanded free throw style just like his Pop. I do not see him listed in any draft charts including the second round but those are some ATHLETIC numbers that some of these top tier black dudes slotted to go in the lottery can't match. Again the people who make these decisions have to start taking flyers on guys like Barry. Heck he has the pedigree and he passes the so called 'eye test " so what the hell. Some NBA team should pick him in the second round. Show some balls for once in their lives. I am sick and tired of this robotic pick the black dude infestation that has infected the NBA and NFL for far too long
     
  13. Jack Lambert

    Jack Lambert Hall of Famer

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    I have to agree with this. As you guys know, I do a lot of scouting for our guys, and the highest rated white freshman in 2017 is #58!! 2018 is a bit better with Joey Hauser in the 15-30 range, and Wisconsin commit Tyler Herro and Iowa commit Joe Wieskamp in the 40-50 range. Still, it's not much, but you always have to take into account top Euro or Aussie players that may be ranked high. 2019 is a lot better, with a whopping three white guys currently in the top 20! I'm hoping we'll get some pleasant surprises in college ball next year. On it's face, we've got Grayson Allen as the lone "high-profile" white player returning. There are some options as to who could join him in the spotlight. The obvious choice is Ethan Happ, who should be in contention for a first team All-American spot next year. People seem to think Gonzaga's Killian Tillie will be a great player next year. Maybe Virginia's rotation could help, as Kyle Guy and Jay Huff, an explosive forward who's coming off a redshirt year, should be good. St. Mary's returns Jock Landale and Emmett Naar, and they'll get some recognition, and BYU's white Lone Peak trio returns, and Notre Dame gets Matt Farrell back. Kansas will get Mykhailiuk back, but will he finally be "the man?" One player who I could see getting a LOT of recognition is Donte DiVincenzo from Villanova, especially if Jalen Brunson turns pro. In terms of freshman, Butler's Kyle Young and Gonzaga's Corey Kispert could possibly be great players as freshman, as could Creighton's Jacob Epperson (especially with Justin Patton gone). Maybe Florida's wing Chase Johnson and Arizona's Alex Barcello as well, provided they don't over-recruit him with some 5-star point guard. So maybe it's not as bad as I first thought, but one of these teams will have to step up, or the NCAA tourney won't be very white-friendly after the first couple of rounds. Sorry for the big college post here.

    If you want another pointless decision, NC State guard Maverick Rowan plans to turn pro now too...

    I'm optimistic on draft night; with the white underclassmen as well as the few Euro players expected to go, there should easily be more whites drafted than what is currently projected in the NFL first round.
     
  14. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Nice primer for next year JL. You are a true fan and your posts are always welcome here so keep on plugging away. We see eye to eye on the leaving early syndrome ( again if a guy has done great things I don't have a big issue if they leave after their junior year ala Michael Jordan) but the NBA is setting the rules and I just don't understand why the NCAA has so little control over the situation. You are right about the class of 2019 and early reports are looking up for the class of 2020.
     
  15. itsme

    itsme Guru

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  16. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    This makes me think of that non fat yogurt episode of Seinfeld where everyone thought they were eating non fat yogurt but it turned out it wasn't non fat. At the end Newman was yelling at Jerry who broke the news saying "why did you have to spoil everything." In all seriousness I do appreciate you pointing out Hartenstein. I want to know these things. Though it pisses me off because he was the highest rated white Euro prospect this year. I should have known since Isaiah is not a common first name for white folks and I did wonder about it but the guy looks white. I will now adjust my files and go to H for Hartenstein = push delete. There it is done. And note to self be very careful from now on and don't assume anything. Whatever happened to the simple old days?
     
  17. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    Looks like it. Cases like this will continue to be more common and it will be harder and more difficult to tell who's who?!
     
  18. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    Wow! I knew he could get up when he swatted Khalil Iverson's(who is a known dunker&finisher) break away dunk in the Sweet 16! So he's 6'5 with a 40+ inch vert, Son of a Hall Of Famer, and still only 1 season at D1 level is pathetic. Makes you realize normal kids/young men have no chance when it comes to the anti white recruiting game and overall sports world.
     
  19. Deceptive Speed

    Deceptive Speed Mentor

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    Don't be sorry! Intresting post.
     
  20. Deceptive Speed

    Deceptive Speed Mentor

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    upload_2017-4-24_11-25-46.jpeg
    Hold on Yall this is Hartensien's father im not even sure he is black. He looks a south east Euro. He's tanned and doesn't have much African facial features. Im not writing him off quite yet.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  21. Deceptive Speed

    Deceptive Speed Mentor

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    [​IMG]
    Another one
     
  22. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    This year more than ever you have white prospects showing the impatience to leap to the NBA that was traditionally mainly a black thing to do. 6'9" Lithuanian Arnoldas Kulboka has declared but most experts had him going in the 2018 draft. He is athletic which is always a plus.. but most everyone feels he is not ready yet but there you have it another chaser. At this rate the new batch of whites might be able to form a union called Bench Riders of America because I swear not one of them is truly ready. Which is not to say they lack talent. Most of them are oozing with potential. Still, recently Porzingas of the Knicks declined to meet with the Knicks for the standard end of year sign off. He is too young to start acting petulant like so many other black players. Not only is his game fashioned after "playground black" where he uses his impressive athletic skills that make you go WOW he also lacks a good feel for the game as well just like a lot of the brothers he patterns his game after. I want to see Porzingas grow up and learn the game better. He is a delight to watch but we are not talking Larry Bird here.
    And I wouldn't get to worked up over seeing so many white faces in this years draft, nice as it is don't get me wrong, but the general feeling is this rashness is unbecoming of white players and I just hate to see them settle for being bench followers rather than mature guys who want to be more polished and being more willing and more able to handle becoming more of a focal point for a team when they are good and ready rather than settling for being a twilight scrub who collects a paycheck. I hope they all mature faster than I anticipate and nobody will be rooting harder for them but the quick buck syndrome is playing a big role here. And after this years gold rush there aren't many white draft prospects to speak of for the next couple to few years.
    It is clear to me and I mentioned it as the season started the NBA desperately needs WHITE STARS not just a bunch of white guys filling up rosters. When you have guys like Stephen A Smith and Max Kellerman essentially agreeing whites don't have what it takes to become a big time NBA player you know we have problems. And who the hell poisoned Gordon Hayward last night, just what we need one of the few white stars gets taken out by some spiked up food? I want an investigation.
     
  23. Jack Lambert

    Jack Lambert Hall of Famer

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    I nominate BYU's Eric Mika for the dumbest decision regarding the draft this year. He declared for the draft, and opted not to return to BYU, which would've likely made the tourney with him coming back. He's a good player, but still needs a TON of work. No mock draft I've seen has him getting drafted. Mika's yet another example of a white player doing us absolutely no good in declaring early. He'll be languishing in the D-League or overseas for awhile. I'm not exactly sure what his thought process was, but it killed one of our potentially good teams next year in college.
     
  24. Shadowlight

    Shadowlight Mentor

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    Kulboka, Kurucs and Simanic, three Euro players with upside pulled out of the draft. Good move because not one of them is ready but by 2018 that status could change. After an NBA finals that I could not watch, the NBA feels like a wasteland to me these days and very little down the pike perks me up. Dreary is the word that comes to mind when I think of the NBA circa 2017 and beyond. Meanwhile the NBA Draft will be next Thursday and while it will be nice to hear some familiar white players called in the first round don't be fooled by that. It feels arranged but whatever the case it seems as if Golden State will dominate for a few more years now that they have Durant on board. Most of the other franchises will suffer in more ways than one and I imagine the 2018 season will be just another exercise in futility for nearly all the other teams. There will be the usual obnoxious blacks as superman theme just like this past season and so many others but we can only hope a few of the new white faces like Leaf, Lydon ,Collins etc. and young but established white players like Hayward, Porzingas etc. make some sort of impact but in total the NBA feels lethargic, scripted and half dead.
    But the draft will be worth tuning into this year.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
  25. Jimmy Chitwood

    Jimmy Chitwood Hall of Famer

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    Luka Samanic and Marko Pecarski are both rumored to be highly coveted by Gonzaga. with Samanic pulling out of the draft this year, hopefully that means there's a better chance for him to come stateside and play collegiately at a program proven to develop big men ...
     

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