Pavlik vs. Taylor II: The Rematch

white is right · Feb 10, 2008

Kukulcan said:
Just saw the Countdown to the Pavlik/Taylor rematch on HBO. It was a great piece. It is a funny thing, I very much want Pavlik to crush Taylor. But at the same time I very much respect Taylor as a man. This coming from a person who holds most blks in contempt. I respect Taylor for his courage and respect of his opponent. Not too many men would want to seek revenge after being blasted out like he did in the first fight. I believe Taylor is a great person and good fighter. He is truely an exception to most black affelets. I will be watching this fight with great excitement. I suspect Taylor will be stopped in the 7th or 8th round. Also, Pavlik is an outstanding person and on his way to having a great career and income.

On a side note, caught the Quitana/Williams fight on HBO. Williams was a another blk fighter that HBO tried to hype into being the next great thing. He is a good fighter, but ran into a another fighter who excuted a great game plan and believed in himself. This was a somewhat major upset. Another blk lost his championship to a European fighter. And yes, Quitana passes the 'eye test'. He looks like he is a spaniard with only a splash of Tano blood that goes back four generations. It was a great fight and a great performance by Quitana.

Yeah I have the "Punisher" fight. He looked no where near as devastating has he looked rising up through the ranks. He isn't the athlete that they were hyping up. He's not as big a puncher and isn't as fast as a prime Hearns. As for Quintana he looks like has some black him in. I think in Puerto Rico he would be called morena which means brown.
Edited by: white is right

Amren.com · Feb 11, 2008

JD1986 said:
Amren.com said:

82 cm right?

Why is it sometimes 82" and Pavlik has a 25.5 inch reach? How do they measure?

Click to expand...

82 inches - measured from the tip of one hand to the the tip of other hand, with arms outstretched. It's also sometimes called "wingspan".

Reach is very important in boxing. Black people usually have a longer reach than whites in proportion to their height, giving them a natural advantage in boxing and basketball.

Sometimes arm length is also considered "reach" - hence the 25.5" reach for Pavlik. Pavlik has long arms for a white guy, and that hasn't hurt his boxing career.

edit:

There are actually two ways that are used to measure a boxer's reach. Traditionally, reach has been measured from fingertip to fingertip, with arms extended to the side. This actually determines "wingspan", and the measurement can be perverted by a boxer with a broad back, for example.

Recently, HBO has measured reach on the boxer's lead arm (jabbing hand) from the tip of the knuckle to the armpit, which is much more accurate.Edited by: Amren.com

Charles Martel · Feb 11, 2008

A black boxing fan, 'boxingknight' posted in boxingscene's "Non-Stop Boxing" today "The black community where I live is mocking Taylor..."

Look in the thread: Jermain Taylor: "This Time I'll Finish Pavlik"

It is very important that a brother not lose to a 'white boy' - they take great pride in being able to defeat any 'cracker'. He has suffered ridicule in his own community.

whiteathlete33 · Feb 12, 2008

I believe I mentioned something about that earlier in this thread Jd. However this talk is considered normal and not racist from a black. As I stated before I don't care what some on this site think about Jermain Taylor and about him being a good person or whatever. He is probably as racist towards whites as all the other black boxers. I really hope he gets knocked again.

lumsdenpower · Feb 14, 2008

PAVLIK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

whiteCB · Feb 14, 2008

Do you guys think Pavlik will have the enormous fan backing that had last fight? I mean the drive from Youngstown to Atlantic City, where the 1st fight was, is only like 8 hours. However, Las Vegas is so far away I'm worried many fans won't be able make the trip out there. Hopefully the MGM crowd will back Pavlik. All I know is I am way pumped up for this fight and want to see Pavlik remain undefeated!!! Go Kelly your Youngstown's and NE Ohio's pride!

JD074 · Feb 14, 2008

JD1986 said:
It was nice to see the much smaller Quintana defeat the overhyped black fighter who had such a reach advantage. Williams has a longer reach than Wlad Klitschko, 82" to 81", yet he fights at welterweight.

Interestingly, he only had a 1/2 inch reach advantage over Quintana. He seems to have very broad shoulders, so perhaps that makes his wingspan seem more impressive than his actual reach.

JD074 · Feb 14, 2008

JD1986 said:
Reach is very important in boxing. Black people usually have a longer reach than whites in proportion to their height, giving them a natural advantage in boxing and basketball.

"Natural advantage??" Careful, JD, somebody might accuse you of being "politically correct," or not sufficiently supporting white athletes!

Charles Martel · Feb 14, 2008

JD074 said:
JD1986 said:

It was nice to see the much smaller Quintana defeat the overhyped black fighter who had such a reach advantage. Williams has a longer reach than Wlad Klitschko, 82" to 81", yet he fights at welterweight.

Click to expand...

Interestingly, he only had a 1/2 inch reach advantage over Quintana. He seems to have very broad shoulders, so perhaps that makes his wingspan seem more impressive than his actual reach.

No, he had a 10" reach advantage over Quintana!

BoxRec.com lists Quintana as having a reach of 72" and Williams as having a reach of 82". The difference was obvious when watching the fight, I was impressed at the way Quintana managed to get inside so quickly and land flush punches. Edited by: JD1986

Hockaday · Feb 15, 2008

One moment from the first fight replays in my head when I think of the rematch. It was after the second round, maybe the fourth or fifth, the fight was still up for grabs, and Taylor landed a nice combo on Kelly. Kelly tucked his chin in as his face darkened with anger and determination, and he fired right back with his own heavier punches to let Taylor know he was in for it. Kelly is a special breed of cat.

white is right · Feb 15, 2008

I just read on the internet that Pavlik vs Trinidad might happen in June if the money is right for both sides. Should be a fun fight with Trinidad going out on his shield. The Gardens could sound like a morgue again after the 10 count over Felix.......

Charles Martel · Feb 16, 2008

white is right said:
I just read on the internet that Pavlik vs Trinidad might happen in June if the money is right for both sides. Should be a fun fight with Trinidad going out on his shield. The Gardens could sound like a morgue again after the 10 count over Felix.......

I would much prefer to see Pavlik vs. Trinidad than Pavlik vs. Duddy, since the Irishman is not ready for a title fight. Trinidad is a bigger name, so the fight would make a lot more money and help Kelly become better known to the average sports fan.

Guest · Feb 16, 2008

If Pavlik beats Taylor, a Trinidad fight would make sense both in estblishing Pavlik's name and making money. Trinidad is a huge money maker. His last fight with Jones had over 300k buys! Big money for both. Felix was holding his own with Jones for six rounds. Pavlik will win but have to be on the alert for the left hook of Felix. JD1986 I agree with you.

Guest · Feb 16, 2008

Oh, like I said 4 1/2 months ago, this is another watershed moment where the myth of "blk affeletic" superiority is exposed! I predict that Kelly KO's Taylor in the 8th or 9th round. Taylor will leave it all in the ring and will be respected, but this is Kelly's time. Taylor is a man I respect, but race must rise above it. Go Kelly, can't wait!

Liverlips · Feb 16, 2008

Kelly should win again but will have to fight his fight. I have a feeling Taylor is going to try to box and move and not stay in front of Pavlik like last time. A KO is Kelly's best bet as black boxers always seem to get the gift decision when it is a close fight with a non-black.

JD074 · Feb 16, 2008

JD1986 said:
No, he had a 12" reach advantage over Quintana!

BoxRec.com lists Quintana as having a reach of 72" and Williams as having a reach of 82".

Nope! Wrong again! First of all, according to your numbers, that's a 10" advantage, not 12" (82-72= 10.) Secondly, you're referring to wingspan. I'm talking about reach. Before the fight, Quintana was listed as having a 25" reach, and Williams was listed as having a 25 1/2" reach. Really, it's Quintana who has the abnormally long reach for his height, not Williams. I think I posited a plausible explanation for this: Interestingly, he only had a 1/2 inch reach advantage over Quintana. He seems to have very broad shoulders, so perhaps that makes his wingspan seem more impressive than his actual reach.

The difference was obvious when watching the fight, I was impressed at the way Quintana managed to get inside so quickly and land flush punches.

Looks can be deceiving. He does look very tall and lanky, but, again, his reach was only 25 1/2".

Charles Martel · Feb 16, 2008

JD074 said:
JD1986 said:

No, he had a 12" reach advantage over Quintana!

BoxRec.com lists Quintana as having a reach of 72" and Williams as having a reach of 82".

Click to expand...

Nope! Wrong again! First of all, according to your numbers, that's a 10" advantage, not 12" (82-72= 10.) Secondly, you're referring to wingspan. I'm talking about reach. Before the fight, Quintana was listed as having a 25" reach, and Williams was listed as having a 25 1/2" reach. Really, it's Quintana who has the abnormally long reach for his height, not Williams. I think I posited a plausible explanation for this: Interestingly, he only had a 1/2 inch reach advantage over Quintana. He seems to have very broad shoulders, so perhaps that makes his wingspan seem more impressive than his actual reach.

The difference was obvious when watching the fight, I was impressed at the way Quintana managed to get inside so quickly and land flush punches.

Click to expand...

Looks can be deceiving. He does look very tall and lanky, but, again, his reach was only 25 1/2".

No, BoxRec lists Williams as having an 82" reach and Quintana as having a 72" reach. Please, check this out before responding. I know you really like black boxers JD074, and you don't want to believe a simple truth about Williams and many other black athletes, which is: they are not really more athletic than whites, it's just that many (not all) of them have proportionately longer arms and legs, giving them an advantage in running, basketball and boxing. Longer legs make it easier to cut off an opponent in the boxing ring. Interestingly, I've had this same conversation with a black boxing fans on other websites and they don't deny the fact that blacks usually have longer arms and legs and that gives them an edge in certain sports.

Paul Williams

Carlos Quintana

Your insulting and aggressive arguing and your trolling my posts like this is not good for this website, JD074. Please, give it a rest. Try and understand the bigger picture. Edited by: JD1986

Amren.com · Feb 16, 2008

JD074 said:
JD1986 said:

Reach is very important in boxing. Black people usually have a longer reach than whites in proportion to their height, giving them a natural advantage in boxing and basketball.

Click to expand...

"Natural advantage??" Careful, JD, somebody might accuse you of being "politically correct," or not sufficiently supporting white athletes!

I don't see the problem with pointing out that blacks have advantages in boxing over whites because of their thicker skin, flatter noses, thicker skulls and longer arms. It helps dissolve the myth that the races are the same except for different paint jobs.

Alpha Male · Feb 16, 2008

Jesus, do we always have to hear about natural black advantages? What about the stereotypical white advantages we never hear of: power, strength, & endurance. Plus, how do you measure toughness - the most important quality a boxer must have. Let's just forget these "natural" advantage stereotypes -because for all they're worth, they haven't stopped the white resurgence and dominance in boxing.Edited by: Alpha Male

Amren.com · Feb 16, 2008

Alpha Male said:
Jesus, do we always have to hear about natural black advantages? What about the stereotypical white advantages we never hear of: power, strength, & endurance. Plus, how do you measure toughness - the most important quality a boxer must have. Let's just forget these "natural" advantage stereotypes -because for all they're worth, they haven't stopped the white resurgence and dominance in boxing.

What advantages are more important in boxing? If we were talking about weight lifting, we would be talking about white natural advantage.

Charles Martel · Feb 16, 2008

Alpha Male said:
Jesus, do we always have to hear about natural black advantages? What about the stereotypical white advantages we never hear of: power, strength, & endurance. Plus, how do you measure toughness - the most important quality a boxer must have. Let's just forget these "natural" advantage stereotypes -because for all they're worth, they haven't stopped the white resurgence and dominance in boxing.

You're absolutely right - on average, white men have greater upper body strength, and often more power and endurance.

And many Eastern Europeans have proportionately longer arms and legs too - it think it may have something to do with evolving in dry, open grasslands like the Ukraine and some parts of Africa. And unlike many black boxers, the Slavic fighters don't lack those other qualities you mentioned.

My prediction for tonight is Pavlik by KO, rounds 4 to 9.Edited by: JD1986

Alpha Male · Feb 16, 2008

Amren.com said:
Alpha Male said:

Jesus, do we always have to hear about natural black advantages? What about the stereotypical white advantages we never hear of: power, strength, & endurance. Plus, how do you measure toughness - the most important quality a boxer must have. Let's just forget these "natural" advantage stereotypes -because for all they're worth, they haven't stopped the white resurgence and dominance in boxing.

Click to expand...

What advantages are more important in boxing? If we were talking about weight lifting, we would be talking about white natural advantage.

I don't know what advantages are more imporant,or if the differences we've mentioned are more individual than group (black or white). All I know is this: your stereotypes about black athletic superiority - the same ones responsible for the cast system in football and basketball - are meaningless because whites dominate boxing.Edited by: Alpha Male

Van_Slyke_CF · Feb 16, 2008

I don`t care about these generalizations about white and black bodies. All I care about is that Kelly Pavlik wins this fight. If the unthinkable were tohappen, then all we would hear from blacks and wiggerswould bethat his first brilliant win was a fluke. I expectanother KO win, but a clear win is absolutely necessary in the continuing drive to get whites a fair shake in most of the sports this site is about.

mrjohnnynofear · Feb 16, 2008

I didn't feel like paying $50 or going to a bar to watch the fight so I am getting the sopcast and watching it for free. I'm not sure if anyone may be interested but just go to a google.com search and type in sopcast download. Go to any site that will let you download it and follow the instructions. Once it's installed just go to 6002 on the channels and there is the fight...I am watching the undercard right now and the quality and stream is excellent. The only problem is that it is in Cantonese not English. But since it's free, I'm not complaining...

Liverlips · Feb 17, 2008

Anyone care to do a round by round?

Pavlik vs. Taylor II: The Rematch

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