300/Christianity Debate

White Shogun

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It should be pretty obvious to even the casual reader of history that the Christian religion has never been a pacifistic religion, no matter what some say the Bible teaches in that regard (including myself.)
 

DixieDestroyer

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I'm a Christian ("backrow" Baptist) and I've never been, nor ever will be a pacifist. Quiet honestly, I don't believe God expects us to be 2nd class citizens. I believe we have every right to defend ourselves, our families, homes and country. Just my 2 cents worth!
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Solomon Kane

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It has been said that anything can be proved from the bible.  I suppose that is true. People can pick and choose verses they agree with and discard those that are not in line with their position.[/QUOTE]

That is why you need *more* than the Bible alone--namely Sacred Tradition and an Interpretative Authority: The Catholic Church.
 

White Shogun

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It has been said that anything can be proved from the bible. I suppose that is true. People can pick and choose verses they agree with and discard those that are not in line with their position.

Solomon Kane said:
That is why you need *more* than the Bible alone--namely Sacred Tradition and an Interpretative Authority: The Catholic Church.

Or, perhaps, the restored Church of Christ, also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. After all, they have apostles, prophets, bishops...

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White Shogun

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Should Christians use a gun?

Interesting article that ties the right of Christian self-defense to the 2nd Amendment and protection of the innocent. Good read for those of you who are interested in the ongoing discussion about pacifism in Christianity.
 

guest301

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Very interesting last few posts. Nice link that you found Shogun. It's nice to see the intellectual honesty you have to post a link that goes against your current postion. That proves that you seek the truth wherever it might lead.
I do have something to say personally that's off topic right now. After today, I will not be able to post at Caste Football for the next 7-10 days because of a personal health issue thats has suddenly appeared the last few days. It just something that's come up that a 39 year old man should not have to be dealing with but life is what happens while you are making other plans. I don't believe it's life threatening or anything like that but it's more of a quality of life issue at this point and I have to deal with it next week. For those of you who believe in prayer, I would appreciate a few said on my behalf. Got alot on my plate right now. I finally saw 300 last night. Respect and Honor.
 

Colonel_Reb

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I hope and pray everything goes well, 301.
 

White Shogun

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An interesting take on the 'turn the other cheek' passage in the NT, from a blog commentary:

In the Bible, Jesus is talking about the relationship between Jews, and other subjegated people, and Rome. Notice first that the blow Jesus is talking about, being struck on the right cheek, indicates that you got the back of your assailants hand, assuming him to be right handed. By turning your left cheek toward him you were forcing him to either slap you with the front of his hand or use his fist, both which were acknowledgements of equality. "Turning the other cheek" is an act of defiance, not submission.


Link
 

Triad

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Interesting point of view. My faith would be much stronger with more interpretations like that.
 

Solomon Kane

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White Shogun said:
It has been said that anything can be proved from the bible. I suppose that is true. People can pick and choose verses they agree with and discard those that are not in line with their position.

Solomon Kane said:
That is why you need *more* than the Bible alone--namely Sacred Tradition and an Interpretative Authority: The Catholic Church.

Or, perhaps, the restored Church of Christ, also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. After all, they have apostles, prophets, bishops...

smiley2.gif


Yes, the Mormons have "bishops", but none that go back to Christ Himself and His act of consecration.
 

White Shogun

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What about the Orthodox?

The Mormons of course believe that Joseph Smith was consecrated by Jesus Christ himself, to restore true Christianity which had been lost in the great apostasy, which of course occurred almost immediately after Christ's death.
 

White Shogun

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I can see where some of these things could be interpreted as acts of defiance, too. Even carrying a pack two miles instead of one, or giving your cloak as well as your coat, in a sense proves that person has no control over you. A person who does things willingly is not your slave or servant, but a free man, an equal.

Even suffering a martyr's death at the hands of Rome is an act of defiance; after all, did they not refuse to bow down and worship Caesar?

Both Moses and Jesus are described as meek, and neither of these were weak or ineffectual milquetoasts.

EDIT: This was in response to a post that was deleted before mine was posted. Sorry for the confusion. Edited by: White Shogun
 

White_Savage

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Come on man, I deserve better than this. What, I'm a new Castefootball villian for not meeting a post quota?

I hope you are kidding about my post in the Tiki Barber thread, my point was every group has some "good guys" in it...but focusing on a few good apples does not fix a rotten bunch, nor is it an appropriate activity to laud members of a group that are at war with yours.

I thought this thread was about a movie, and I haven't been reading it. The only thing I will say is that Christianity has alot of different intepreations, the Bible has alot of contradictions, and Christian notions have historically run the gamut from practical to asshat. Our ancestors were Christians, yet many of them were decidely not Jew worshipers, pacifists, multicultural weenies, or wierdos. Christianity has changed for the worse for many because society has changed, and religion INEVITABLY changes in reaction to society, no matter how ancient and pure anyone tells you there religion is. So I don't blame Christianity so much as I blame modern Christians, although one thing I do think Whites might be more racially concious if their faith was more ethnocentric (Like Judaism, Shinto, or Hinduism) rather than universalist.


Bart said:
jaxvid said:
Where's White Savage at? Don't these Christian discussion threads bring him out of Valhalla or where ever he hides out just so he can go off on guest301?


White Savage posted in the Tiki Barber tribute thread recently.   He related the story of a compassionate Jap fighter pilot who mercifully spared the lives of passengers on a plane that were frantically waving at him.  The next day in Virginia a South Korean went postal and shot half a hundred people.  What is the lesson here?  Wave at slant-eyed yellow people who have you in their sights-- you may be spared.
Edited by: White_Savage
 

Bart

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White_Savage said:
I hope you are kidding about my post in the Tiki Barber thread,


I saw some irony and humor in the post. I'm sure Jaxvid was playing around too.
 

Solomon Kane

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White Shogun said:
What about the Orthodox?

Orthodox bishops are valid but illicit since they refuse to recognize Peter (or his successors) as having supreme jurisdiction over the Church.
 

jaxvid

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Bart said:
White_Savage said:
I hope you are kidding about my post in the Tiki Barber thread, 


I saw some irony and humor in the post. I'm sure Jaxvid was playing around too.

Sure we all love White Savage's posts! It's too bad he doesn't chime in more.

There WAS some irony in his post and then having that asian f*cker shoot up VT.
 

Solomon Kane

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OK, since I finally saw "300", I thought I'd put in my two cents.

Basically, I liked it. A good fantasy version of Leonidas' epic defence of the pass at Thermopylae. I liked the battle scenes immensely and the sense of comradeship.

*And from a white pride perspective, you can look at it as the maximum instance of white solidarity--an elite phalanx of proud , brave and well-trained Europeans looking out for each other against a horde of dusky third-worlders with a lot of bling.*

Ok, here comes the smart-aleck history major in me now.

A number of times, the Spartans present their cause as the cause of "Reason." But historically Sparta scorned reason (except as an aid to military organization and tactics) which is why, I believe, we have only one or two items of their literature remaining. In terms of culture, architecture, virtually nothing remains of Sparta. Athens represents reason and Greece. What do you think of when you think of Greece? The Acropolis--Athens not Sparta.

This Spartan "Reason" is contrasted with Eastern "fanaticism and mysticism." But both Spartans and Persians were religious peoples (though it's true both were far from having a conception of the one true God). (You could also say the Spartans were one up on the Persians inasmuch as they at least conceived of their gods in the form of men rather than animals).

In the movie, Leonidas scorns "oracles" and only seeks them out as a concession to old-fogey mystical traditionalists. But oracles were believed in by all the Greek city-states. (See the importance of oracles in the Peleponnesian Wars, esp. during the Syracusan expedition--Thucydides).

"Fanaticism"? there was nothing more fanatically totalitarian, cruel, and unreasonably tough than Spartan society (which, for example, threw out weak babies after birth--a fact which the movie to its credit portrays).

(However, at least the Spartans did not try to impose the "Spartan way" on other peoples. They were fanatical towards their own people, and basically wanted to have as little to do with foreigners as possible).

Anyway, with the respect to these themes, you clearly see an attempt by the producers to link the Persians with "islamo-fascism/religious fanaticism." I hope we are not being primed for another war.

In the movie, the Spartans make a joke about Athenian homosexuality. In reality, it was the Spartans who were more known for this vice. (In the account of Herodotus--Spartan lovers are combing each others' hair before the battle).

And of course, and understandably, the movie avoided the issue of Spartan cruelty towards their conquered "helot" peoples. Part of the ethic in which every Spartan was raised was to pactice continual warfare and duplicity against the helots, "to keep them down". (Eventually, thank God, the helots rebelled and triumphed over their oppressors).

The Spartans' totalitarianism makes them the antithesis of the free society, so the movie theme of "Freedom" versus "oriental despotism" won't wash.

However, the theme of *Independence* from foreigners was great! I'm all for that--Sparta for the Spartans, Greece for the Greeks, Persia for the Persians!

And the courage, simplicity, self-control, plain speech of the Spartan was brought out well. (The word "laconic' comes from Lacaedaemonian=Spartan).

That's what we should remember the Spartans for. Speak well of the dead.

OK, sorry for the vain historical pontifications.

Anyway, it was good movie.
 

guest301

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Colonel_Reb said:
I hope and pray everything goes well, 301.

Thanks Reb. Well I am back to posting now and I regret that it took me more than the 7-10 days I said I would be gone for health reasons. I had a issue with a nerve around my right eye that was causing me lots of problems and a couple of other health related issues I had to take time out and deal with. I am ok now and I have alot of catching up to do around here.
So in the three weeks I have been gone, CF has had to endure a NFL Draft/Disaster and my favorite athlete Dirk Nowitzki and Mavs being drummed out of the playoffs in the first round. Of course Dirk is getting savaged by the media for it while Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett get free passes, not to mention Shaq and Wade's poor performances in their sweep by the Bulls. They say that bad things tend to happen in three's, so what happens next...will it be something minor like Mike Haas being cut from the Bears or will it be the worst possible tragedy...Rampage beating Chuck Liddell in a couple of weeks. I shudder to think of the implications of a Liddell loss in that fight. Here's hoping that Rampage isn't to Chuck what Golden State is to the Mavs! Some teams and some people just have your number. That being said, I still think Chuck knocks him out late in the first round. Glad to be back. Got alot of posts to catch up on.
 

White Shogun

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I don't know, Americans seem to be more against the war now than ever. If 300 was intended to do what Duke asserts, it failed.
 

Alpha Male

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Kaptain Poop said:
Here is David Dukes take on the movie which I agree with:

300 duke's take


I agree as well. I especially like his take on Jared Diamond's book, "Guns, Germs, and Steal." I was required to read this propaganda upon entering my freshman year of college; and even before I discarded the shrouds of liberal propaganda, I noted the book's biases.
 

Alpha Male

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White Shogun said:
I don't know, Americans seem to be more against the war now than ever. If 300 was intended to do what Duke asserts, it failed.

One of my Jewish students put it plainly: "We are torn. We hate Bush, but we support Israel."
 

Triad

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Kaptain Poop said:
Here is David Dukes take on the movie which I agree with:

300 duke's take

His usual eloquent, educated self.

I agree the producers intent was probably anti-Persian; however, after watching it the story is too good for this.

The real story that emerged was European forces, with their backs against the wall, fighting to defend their families, culture, and nation against both a multicultural army and treasonous acts from their own greedy politicians.
 

Kaptain

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What evidence is there that the Persian army at this historic time was multi-racial? Iran actually means "land of the Aryans." King Darius professed himself to be the leader of a racially superior Aryan race. I doubt any "multi-racial" nation would have been able to give any challenge to the Greeks or any civilization. Multi-racialism has never worked.

The story is a great story that should have been told in theaters years ago. It's too bad that the story was pimped out for Jewish supremacists purposes. When was the last time hollywood made the evil bad guys black and the good guys white? Think there was an agenda behind it? They think that we are so easily fooled. Are we?Edited by: Kaptain Poop
 
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