Draft Day 2007

voice

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For the record, I think Gonzalez passes the eye test for white.

I don't see any Negro or Indian blood coming through in any pictures. There were many Spanish people living in Cuba(and still are) so you can't label them non-white automatically.

We all saw the study at Cal-Berkeley last year where people self identify there race correctly 98% of the time backed by a genetic test to prove the study.

Hispanic is NOT a racial category. Haven't you noticed every time a leader for La Raza come on the TV they looked almost identical to spaniards? The ruling elite in Mexico is mostly white..

Nordics, Alpines and Mediterraneans are white caucasoids. Period.
 

White Shogun

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sal_paradise said:
white shogun-I was criticizing the use of pogrom because it IS ridiculous as used by Kaptain Poop. If nobody else is using it, then fine. Don`t get so worked up because I wasn`t addressing my comments to you or anyone else other than the Kaptain.

It's a message board. Anyone is free to comment on anyone else's posts, whether they are specifically addressed to that person or not.

Not everyone who criticizes a white person for making insensitive remarks will always criticize a black person for making similar remarks. Thanks for clarifying your position on the double standard in the examples I pointed out.

Your opinion on the caste system is that we should be for anyone who is 'not black.' Some will share your opinion. Others here specifically choose to support only white athletes, just like people of other races. That is their right. Hence, the sometimes heated discussion about who is or isn't 'white' according to the definition of those who want to know or are interested in such things. But to be perfectly clear, this is a message board dedicated to supporting WHITE ATHLETES, not those who are NOT-BLACK. Although the two purposes often coincide, especially in the case of sports, there is a difference between the two.
 
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Thank you, Sunshine. I thought something wasn't right earlier talking about athletic punters. It was Adam Podlesh I was thinking of who I figured would be running fake punts. When I saw the post on the other punter,I figured it was the same guy, since it's not known to be common that punters run 4.4s. I knew the punter went to Maryland, though. Podlesh will be a weapon, and why these speed demons aren't used at other positions is a joke. ToughJ.Riggins: David Ball was injured both times he ran his 40s. I believe he had injured quad muscles, which would obviously affect his speed. Whether he isfaster than Hass when healthy is just speculation I guess.
 

Bart

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sal_paradise said:
white shogun-I was criticizing the use of pogrom because itIS ridiculous as used by Kaptain Poop.


Nonsense.His use of the word in context of what he was trying to convey fit well. He didn't makea point by point comparison. I suppose his post will be flagged by the thought police pushing for more hate-crime legislation in Congress.
 

KG2422

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sal_paradise said:
Are you trying to say that the things discussed here are the equivalent of a pogrom as in an organized massacre of Jewish people?¡@

It always comes back to those loveable Jews doesn't it? And I would say there is an unorganized massacre or at least "ethnic cleansing" of whites going on in Zimbabwe and South Africa right now. It happened in Haiti. Don't think it couldn't happen again.
 

sunshine

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The punter with speed I couldn't think of is Toby Gowin. He used to punt for the cowboys and jets- may not be playing now. As for punters playing different positions--good punters are hard to come by and most teams settle with a guy and want to keep him there. sometimes punters are multi sport types ala Erstad so he had little time to learn other positions since he was a baseball player first and foremost. Practically every year or so you can find a college punter who runs in the 4.4 range.
It is ironic but Podlesh is the second white rb-so to speak in the draft. Leonard was first.
 

sal_paradise

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White Shogun- "this is a message board dedicated to supporting WHITE ATHLETES, not those who are NOT-BLACK."


That`s perfectly fine and, first and foremost, I want to see white athletes get a fair shake in football at the college and pro levels, instead of getting the shaft as they so often have the past couple of decades or so.


But with the changing demographics found in the U.S. over the past few decades, you are going to see increasing numbers of college/pro football players who are of mixed ethnicity-with many individuals whose family tree does not allow fora simple dividing line to be drawnbetween white and black. Why is this a problem?Whether guys from the2007 NFL Draft like Sepulveda, Gonzalez, Cameron Stephenson and others are truly white or not shouldn`t be of the greatest importance here because there will be even more guys like them in the coming years. The most important thing for people here should be that they are not black, and youngkids who are not black can have moreheroes to watch on thefootball fieldwho look just like them-ones that they can admire and try to emulate.


What some of you guys obviously want-I didn`t say all-is to support the efforts of athletes here who are absolutely, unequivocallyfrom a white European background. Fair enough to some extent-white athletes do need the unqualified support of people like those found on this site, because we know the majority of the mainstream mass media rarely does it, and the powers that be running the NFL and other major pro sports leagues have their own biased agendas as well.


But it seems to me thatthe only reason some people here would like to include guys in the white category for NFL draft numbers and other calculations found here is simply to give themselves an ego boostby believing the numbers are more satisfactory than they really are. One cannot have it both ways.
 

Kaptain

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sal_paradise said:
white shogun-I was criticizing the use of pogrom because it IS ridiculous as used by Kaptain Poop. If nobody else is using it, then fine. Don`t get so worked up because I wasn`t addressing my comments to you or anyone else other than the Kaptain 

The word "pogrom" means; persecution of a minority group. Whites are minorities in the NFL. Pogrom, like the word "holocaust", belongs to no one group of people. It's called a dictionary - look it up.

Of the discussion boards that tackle the issue of race, this board, in comparison to the others, is composed of some of the most intelligent and respectful posters I have seen on any board. It's interesting that one of your first posts is to cry about the rather mild use of the word "pogrom". Do you go on Jewish or pro-black websites and cry about how they choose to use their words? Didn't think so. Edited by: Kaptain Poop
 

sal_paradise

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Kaptain POOP-you are WRONG-the word "pogrom" isused to describe physical violence , death, rioting against a group of people for ethnic/religious reasons etc. "Mild" use of the word?Your usage of it belittles thedeathsof many people-and not just Jews-who died in pogroms. ProbablyWikipedia is up to your level of understanding so try searching there for the history behind the word.


I`ve never been on any "Jewish or pro-black websites," and your comments suggesting so are stupid.If you have trouble accepting some constructive criticism about the English language, too bad.


White guys getting screwed over by the system in college and pro football hardly equates with somesort of "caste pogrom," as you so erroneously put it before.This is a really good site, and a very necessary one as I said before.But cryingabout discrimination against whites at WR, CB and other positions on the football field as a"caste pogrom?"Thanks for a good laugh.
 

devans

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Sal_paradise.

Pedantic - look that up
 

White Shogun

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sal_paradise:
I'd venture to guess (I'm not a moderator but have been on the boards awhile) that you are close to being banned already. You have written six posts so far, and in everyone of them you have made desultory remarks: You've insulted other members; complained about use of a word that is neither derogatory nor an insult, which is not in violation of the guidelines; and lamented the motives of some members on this site, which you obviously could not know neither being a mind reader nor omniscient.

I'm not going to engage you in a debate about the merits of supporting white athletes. I'd encourage you to open your eyes and do further research before you complain about members of this site 'giving themselves an ego boost by believing the numbers are more satisfactory than they really are.' There is plenty of statistical and anecdotal evidence to back up the assertions made on this site that prove racial discrimination against white athletes in sports and the MSM, despite the fact that they outperform blacks, Samoans, Asians, and Hispanics (and whoever else you want to throw in the mix) in quantifiable tests of physical skills. For someone who says they've been reading these boards for awhile, you seem to be ignorant of the amount of data that proves such.
 
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Pogrom has its roots in Russian history. Widespread Jewish persecution was common throughout Europe and Russia was no exception. The Russians were at times especially brutal in their discriminatory ways however. The word and the connotation surrounding it is in fact beyond simply 'persecution of a minority'. It means mass destruction and death.

As defined by Dictionary.com:
n.An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews.

Emphasis added.
 

sal_paradise

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White Shogun-I`m sorry you feel so strongly against what I`ve said so far. However, it seems as if a couple of people hereare in agreement with at least some parts of what I`ve been trying to say.If another poster here hadn`t misused a certain word to grossly exaggerate theunfair situation white athletes have had to endure in recent decades, I never would`ve objected so much, and sark`s post further proves my point. I`ll shut up about this.


I look at thesituation about who is white and who is not perhaps from a different perspective than many here-not saying all-because of my experiences of living indifferent countries and being around so many different ethnicities. Iwant to support white athletes, but I think it iscounterproductive to belabor the issue of who is white and who is not in order to increase certain numbers of whites in sports-either do itas "whites only" or include anyone whois not black, because getting into half, white/black hispanic and others will never lead to any resolution of this issue.I`m entitled to my opinion here as much as others are-regardless of my status as a "newbie." Now I`ll shut up about this, too.


I`m well awareof the fact that whites often outperform other ethnic groups in various sports-including overall medal performances at the Summer and Winter Olympics.I take as much pride in the accomplishments of white athletes as anyoneelse here, I bet.Finally, you misunderstood my "ego boost" comment, but I`ll shut aboutthis as well.


I like this site, and I`ll comeback again another time to take part in the discussions when I have time. Feel free to have the last word here if you like.


Kaptain poop-I strongly disagree with you here, but after reviewing my last post to you, I realize I shouldn`t have wordedsome parts of it the way I did. Sorry about that.
 

White Shogun

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sal_paradise:
You're more than welcome to hang around and post. Get to know some of the posters here and you will find that your thoughts on the 'who is white' question mirror that of many others here. The posters on this site are not monolithic in their beliefs by any stretch of the imagination. We're all simply united by our support of white athletes. Everything else is debated and argued, but rarely does anyone resort to name calling and out right insults.

You'll find, despite the rough going initially, that this is one of the most polite and well-behaved forums around. I hope you will find further discourse on these topics more to your liking.
smiley1.gif
 

KG2422

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How about these rape stats for a "pogram".

The Truth of Interracial Rape in the United States
By Lawrence Auster
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 3, 2007

Like Ahab's search for the Great White Whale, liberals' search for the Great White Defendant is relentless and never-ending. When, in 1988, Tawana Brawley's and Al Sharpton's then year-old spectacular charge that several white men including prosecutor Steven Pagones (whose name Brawley had picked out of a newspaper article) had abducted and raped the 15 year old was shown to be completely false, the Nation said it didn't matter, since the charges expressed the essential nature of white men's treatment of black women in this country. When the Duke University lacrosse players were accused of raping a black stripper last year, liberals everywhere treated the accusation as fact, because, just as with the Nation and Tawana Brawley, the rape charge seemed to the minds of liberals to reflect the true nature of oppressive racial and sexual relations in America.

To see the real truth of the matter, let us take a look at the Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005. (Go to the linked document, and under "Victims and Offenders" download the pdf file for 2005.)

In Table 42, entitled "Personal crimes of violence, 2005, percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, based on race of victims, by type of crime and perceived race of offender," we learn that there were 111,590 white victims and 36,620 black victims of rape or sexual assault in 2005. (The number of rapes is not distinguished from those of sexual assaults; it is maddening that sexual assault, an ill-defined category that covers various types of criminal acts ranging from penetration to inappropriate touching, is conflated with the more specific crime of rape.) In the 111,590 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was white, 44.5 percent of the offenders were white, and 33.6 percent of the offenders were black. In the 36,620 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was black, 100 percent of the offenders were black, and 0.0 percent of the offenders were white. The table explains that 0.0 percent means that there were under 10 incidents nationally.

The table does not gives statistics for Hispanic victims and offenders. But the bottom line on interracial white/black and black/white rape is clear:

In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.</font>

What this means is that every day in the United States, over one hundred white women are raped or sexually assaulted by a black man.

The Department of Justice statistics refer, of course, to verified reports. According to the Wikipedia article on rape, as many as half of all rape charges nationally are determined by police and prosecutors to be false:

Linda Fairstein, former head of the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit, noted, "There are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.... It's my job to bring justice to the man who has been falsely accused by a woman who has a grudge against him, just as it's my job to prosecute the real thing."
No wonder there was such absolute belief in the guilt of the Duke students among the leading sectors of liberal America. A drug-addled, half-deranged, promiscuous black stripper accused three young white men of raping her. There are virtually zero rapes of black women by white men in the United States, and half of all rape charges against specific individuals turn out to be false. But in the gnostic, inverted world of liberal demonology, the white students had to be guilty.

Meanwhile, in the real America, week after week, the newspapers report the rapes of white women by black menâ€â€￾though, of course, without ever once using the words, "a white woman was raped by black man." Just last week in the New York Post there was a story about a serial black rapist who invaded women's apartments on Manhattan's Upper West Side; you knew the rapist was black from a police drawing accompanying the story, and you knew the victims were most likely white from the neighborhoods where the attacks occurred. But even when news media's reports of black on white rape make the race of the perpetrator evident (which the media only does in a minority of instances), no explicit reference is ever made to the racial aspect of the case. Each story of black on white rape is reported in isolation, not presented as part of a larger pattern. There is never the slightest mention of the fact that white women in this country are being targeted by black rapists. In the inverted world of liberalism, the phenomenon does not exist.

Edited by: KG2422
 

Triad

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KG2422,
Sounds like a pogrom to me. Those stats are repeated every year.

Thanks fellow CF members for improving my vocabulary this week.

pe·dan·tic[puh-dan-tik] -
-adjective 1. ostentatious in one's learning.
2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching.
 

Bart

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sal_paradise said:
Kaptain POOP-you are WRONG-the word "pogrom" isused to describe physical violence , death, rioting against a group of people for ethnic/religious reasons etc. "Mild" use of the word?Your usage of it belittles thedeathsof many people-and not just Jews-who died in pogroms. about the English language, too bad.


Iguess we had better clean up our language around here.We should restrict the customary usage of words which deviate from the narrowest of definitions. We have offended people needlessly. Sports message boards are the worst. I will no longer write that a losing team was slaughtered, massacred, butchered,annihilated, mowed down, destroyed or had their heads handed to them. In doing so, we trivialize horrific incidents of the past. A player should not by any stretch be considered a warrior, assassin or stone cold killer. Let's ask play by play commentators to discard terms like blitzkrieg,and jail break.How insensitive we have become. Sigh.
 

jaxvid

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Bart said:
sal_paradise said:
Kaptain POOP-you are WRONG-the word "pogrom" is used to describe physical violence , death, rioting against a group of people for ethnic/religious reasons etc. "Mild" use of the word? Your usage of it belittles the deaths of many people-and not just Jews-who died in pogroms. about the English language, too bad.
  


I guess we had better clean up our language around here. We should restrict the customary usage of words which deviate from the narrowest of definitions.  We have offended people needlessly.  Sports message boards are the worst.  I will no longer write that a losing team was slaughtered, massacred, butchered, annihilated, mowed down, destroyed or had their heads handed to them.  In doing so, we trivialize horrific incidents of the past.  A player should not by any stretch be considered a warrior, assassin or stone cold killer.  Let's ask play by play commentators to discard terms like blitzkrieg, and jail break.  How insensitive we have become.  Sigh.

Thanks for your sensitivity Bart! Words like "pogrom" are certain to hurt those of the Jewish persuation and we must be especially sensitive to them as they have it so rough in life what with them all being in the upper 5% of income in this country and in control of virtually all forms of media. Remember that a hundred billion of them were burned and gassed for no reason at all which is something we are all guilty of (including slavery) so we should all be sensitive due to our well deserved guilt.
 

Freedom

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"pe·dan·tic[puh-dan-tik] -
-adjective 1. ostentatious in one's learning.
2. overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, esp. in teaching. "

It means unimaginative or shallow normally too.
There is a pogrom or purge of white athletes in the NFL. It a perfectly fine way to describe how white athletes have disappeared. White athletes are dying.

It's just a figure of speech. He's not comparing actual death and suffering to not playing in the NFL.
 
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Bart said:
sal_paradise said:
Kaptain POOP-you are WRONG-the word "pogrom" is used to describe physical violence , death, rioting against a group of people for ethnic/religious reasons etc. "Mild" use of the word? Your usage of it belittles the deaths of many people-and not just Jews-who died in pogroms. about the English language, too bad.
  


I guess we had better clean up our language around here. We should restrict the customary usage of words which deviate from the narrowest of definitions.  We have offended people needlessly.  Sports message boards are the worst.  I will no longer write that a losing team was slaughtered, massacred, butchered, annihilated, mowed down, destroyed or had their heads handed to them.  In doing so, we trivialize horrific incidents of the past.  A player should not by any stretch be considered a warrior, assassin or stone cold killer.  Let's ask play by play commentators to discard terms like blitzkrieg, and jail break.  How insensitive we have become.  Sigh.

Are you Tom Knott in disguise? I read your column every day...
smiley36.gif
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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Sal Paradise, to debate your question, I came on this board mostly because I was outraged by the pro-black caste-system in sports. However, when scrutinizing my thoughts I realized that it is actually less offensive to be pro-white than it is anti-black. Yes, I am against the pro-black caste-system and do enjoy seeing Asians etc. make it in the NBA. However, I realized it is intellectually dishonest to say that I am on this site without a soft spot in my heart for the white athlete.

Yes, I do admit to looking forward to Chase Budinger's career more so than Yi Jianlian's the new Chinese PF prospect. I do want to see other race's get a chance and I want sports to become completely fair in evaluating talent. However, I am going to cheer for Caucasians, that are closer related to me than other groups more. I think the more you post here you will see that there is lots of debate between us being an anti-black's owning a monopoly in sports site and a pro-white one. Both will of course be considered very taboo from the mainstream media.

I am one of the more moderate posters here and am offended by the continuous posting of black crime statistics and frown upon the word negro because I think it causes this site to be taken as a biased site by many moderate lurkers who may find the site by asking the same questions as I did. Why is there not one white RB in the NFL? Why was Jesse Lumsden undeservingly cut by the Redskins? Posting black crime statistics is not going to gain anything for us. America will never be re-segregated if thats what some hope for. Let us fight the right fights.

And to answer your question Gonzalez is white. Hispanic is a term for Spanish speaking person form the Greater American continent it is not a race. Anthony Gonzalez has light brown hair and blue eyes. He is absolutely of Spanish (from Spain) stock. I find it ridiculous how Spanish people who are not Native American or black at all can still get the benefits of minority status. I think we should be past the point of anyone getting special status but Anthony Gonzalez is a white Hispanic. Check a U.S census and it will say white Hispanic and non-white Hispanic.

And speaking of Jews. Most Jews of today are also white. They are of Turko-slavic decent mostly. There are few Jews today that are mostly Semitic. In fact that is one of the biggest Arab arguments against Israel. I did a paper on Arab and Islamic Nationalism. Palestinians and other Arab's think that the Jews should have been given land in Europe as reparations for the Holocaust. Bacon the first prime-minister of Israel was actually a terrorist Zionist. The Jews only won the initial battle in 1948 because they lived in organized cohesive communities and the Palestinians were disorganized. I have a friend who is Jewish and I told him how it bothers me how Jews don't consider themselves white.

Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

Bart

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ToughJ.Riggins said:
Bacon the first prime-minister of Israel was actually a terrorist Zionist.


Not to be a nitpicker, but I don't recall a Prime - Minister named BACON? That would be a great name for a Jewishhead of state.
smiley36.gif
You're thinking of Begin of course, but he wasn't the first, it was David Ben Gurion.
 

sal_paradise

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ToughJRiggins-I enjoyed reading your comments. It seems as if we have a lot in common concerningthe issues under debate here. I know Gonzalez is white. I was just trying to get a feel for how peoplewould respond. But in a country that allows you to check every boxon employment forms etc. concerningyour ethnic background, I feel that endless discussion about who is white and who is not when it comes to quite a few Hispanic athletes is a waste of time because there is such a "gray area" between white and black in this case. But everyone is entitled to their opinion....


It seems to me that if we want more white guys to get a legitimate chance to perfom at certain skill positions in the NFL, we have to look more closely at how college football recruits and develops players. (I know, many herehave discussed this over the years, I`m simply expressing my ownopinions for the first time.) What I want to say is this: If there are only a handful of Brock Forseys/Luke Staleys at the RB position each year coming out of college, and a few Eric Weddles/Dustin Foxes at CB, then it stands to reason that theNFL is going to have slim pickinings to choose from in looking for the next Mike Alstott or Jason Sehorn. I mostdefinitely am not excusing the NFL from the blame withwhat we are all concerned about here, but white guys have to be given a chance in college in sufficient numbers at various positions, or the situation as we see it in the NFL isn`t likely to improve.


Like you, I don`t see how bringing up black crime statistics is going tohelp us make any headway with this problem. We alreadyknow there are too many punk black athletes out there who are committing crimes at a shameful rate and have been for years. (I saw the other day that Robert Traylor is in big trouble, for example.)Anti-Jewish stuffdoesn`t make any sense, either.


Yeah, I get a big kick out of Jeremy Wariner smokin` the field in the 400mand identify with him rather than a Chinese guy blowin` brothers away in the 110m hurdles. But at the same time, I`m happy to see anyone who is not black being given an equal opportunity in many sports that we know has not been the case so often for many yearsnow. I try to be open-minded with this due to my experiences living overseas for so long. When I see athletes in so many other countries-white, Asian, Hispanic etc. being given chances to perform as equals in sports that many in the U.S. have long given upexpecting more than a token white face or two, I envy those countries and their people. For example, noone that I know from Australia or NZ thinks that only black players can performin rugby, and no one in Japan is expecting blacksto come here and take their positions on the country`s national track and field team.


I guess I`ll be one of the moderates when I have the time to get involved in further discussions here, but I will not change my opinions and how I express them simply because I`m a newbie. Other posterswho don`t like my opinions can feel free to criticize them as they like, however, keep your threats of being bannedfrom this board to yourself. That is at thediscretion of the moderators, not the business of some veteran members.&nbs p;
 
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