Some black commentator, a guest on Dan Patrick's radio program, declared that Babe Ruth's 714 Home Runs were an "affirmative action" achievement because Babe did not play against Negro outfielders. The black pundit surmised that Babe may have gotten only "around 600" homers if he'd had outfielders like Willie Mays robbing him by jumping up and grabbing balls that were just over the fence.
Affirmative Action for Babe Ruth?
- Thread starter Deus Vult
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Deus Vult said:
The black pundit is a moron. Does he seriously believe more than 100 homers would have been snatched away by black outfielders? How stupid can this guy be? How often do outfielders rob hitters ofhomers? It doesn't occur regularly and I am sure over the course of a lifetime, Babe would have lost only a very few. By the way, I've also seen many white outfielders snag what looked to be apparent homers.So, are we supposed to believe all black fielders would perform at a high level? Most of them remind me of Reggie Jackson and Manny Ramirez. Oh, and one more thing.The vast majorityof his shots didn't just barely make the first row. He could hit the ball a loooong way. I saw many Braves games as a kid and witnessed many of Hank Aaron's home runs. He did not have great power, but was consistent. A lot of his shots were of the first, second, and third row variety.
Its interesting that he didn't make the same remark about any of Hank
Aaron's or Willie Mays' early home run totals, since there were few black
outfielders then too. Must have missed that angle with that huge, rocket
scientist brain of his. But I guess if anyone knows about the inferiority of
affimative action achievements, its probably him.
Aaron's or Willie Mays' early home run totals, since there were few black
outfielders then too. Must have missed that angle with that huge, rocket
scientist brain of his. But I guess if anyone knows about the inferiority of
affimative action achievements, its probably him.
Bear-Arms
Mentor
Blacks don't think white people are good athletes. They're just as racist as us.
From the JB Cash article addressing this very issue. (link below).
Whitewashing Sports History
Another attempt to revise history is to discredit achievements made before the wide-scale integration of sports. Bonds himself has promoted this revisionist history attempt by indicating Ruth's home run records are in some way illegitimate because they occurred before black players were allowed to play Major League baseball. The media has picked this up and repeated it over and over without any critical thinking about the issue. The claim is absolutely ridiculous and should anyone repeat it they should be challenged immediately.
First, the only black presence that would have affected Ruth's home run records would have occurred if there were black pitchers. Other players would not have made a difference to Ruth's career stats unless you figure that there would have been some "Barry Bonds" types of outfielders butchering easy plays and adding extra base hits to Ruth's already prodigious numbers.
The presence of black pitchers affecting Ruth's career totals is laughable! Who would that have been? There have been very few good black pitchers in the nearly 60 years since the sport was integrated. Quick, name the five best black baseball pitchers in the history of baseball  Bob Gibson, Ferguson Jenkins, Vida Blue, Don Newcombe and who? Satchel Paige? Okay, say Satchel Paige managed to get Ruth out a few times. That would mean that Ruth could clean up against the likes of Dontrelle Willis and any other black pitchers that would have somehow made their way to the big leagues.
Thus if there had been more black pitchers during Ruth's career, and since black pitchers are not historically very good, we can assume once again that Ruth's offensive stats would be greater then they are. Humorously, one can also say that Barry Bonds has benefited from not having to face black pitchers. What really good black pitchers has he had to face? By this logic Bonds' records should be suspect because there are so few American blacks playing Major League Baseball. What difference does it make if blacks are barred from the game due to segregation or don't play the game due to disinterest  the result is the same  none of all those (supposedly) superior black pitchers that would have deflated offensive stats.
Whitewashing Sports History
Whitewashing Sports History
Another attempt to revise history is to discredit achievements made before the wide-scale integration of sports. Bonds himself has promoted this revisionist history attempt by indicating Ruth's home run records are in some way illegitimate because they occurred before black players were allowed to play Major League baseball. The media has picked this up and repeated it over and over without any critical thinking about the issue. The claim is absolutely ridiculous and should anyone repeat it they should be challenged immediately.
First, the only black presence that would have affected Ruth's home run records would have occurred if there were black pitchers. Other players would not have made a difference to Ruth's career stats unless you figure that there would have been some "Barry Bonds" types of outfielders butchering easy plays and adding extra base hits to Ruth's already prodigious numbers.
The presence of black pitchers affecting Ruth's career totals is laughable! Who would that have been? There have been very few good black pitchers in the nearly 60 years since the sport was integrated. Quick, name the five best black baseball pitchers in the history of baseball  Bob Gibson, Ferguson Jenkins, Vida Blue, Don Newcombe and who? Satchel Paige? Okay, say Satchel Paige managed to get Ruth out a few times. That would mean that Ruth could clean up against the likes of Dontrelle Willis and any other black pitchers that would have somehow made their way to the big leagues.
Thus if there had been more black pitchers during Ruth's career, and since black pitchers are not historically very good, we can assume once again that Ruth's offensive stats would be greater then they are. Humorously, one can also say that Barry Bonds has benefited from not having to face black pitchers. What really good black pitchers has he had to face? By this logic Bonds' records should be suspect because there are so few American blacks playing Major League Baseball. What difference does it make if blacks are barred from the game due to segregation or don't play the game due to disinterest  the result is the same  none of all those (supposedly) superior black pitchers that would have deflated offensive stats.
Whitewashing Sports History
Baseball Fan
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Yeah Hank Aaron for all his homers, never hit more than 45 Homers in a season. He hit 45 in 1962 and that year he finshed second to Willie Mays. He led the league in homers only 4 times in 20 years.
I would have loved to see Ruth in an intergrated era against Black pitchers. He may of reached 1000 home runs with the intergrated pitching of today. The five best black pitchers the only one that was scary was Gibson. The one thing those five have in common is I beleive all of them had drug or alcohol problems at some point, Gibson was arrested not too far back for assaulting a Kansas State trooper. I guess if you don't want to count Satchiel Paige, you could put Pedro Martinez, Luis Tiant, or the early years of Doc Gooden. All of them except for Tiant burned out early in their careers.
I would have loved to see Ruth in an intergrated era against Black pitchers. He may of reached 1000 home runs with the intergrated pitching of today. The five best black pitchers the only one that was scary was Gibson. The one thing those five have in common is I beleive all of them had drug or alcohol problems at some point, Gibson was arrested not too far back for assaulting a Kansas State trooper. I guess if you don't want to count Satchiel Paige, you could put Pedro Martinez, Luis Tiant, or the early years of Doc Gooden. All of them except for Tiant burned out early in their careers.
Baseball Fan said:
Ruth may have had 2000 career homeruns playing today with improved nutrition and workouts.
Really Tiant wasn't that good, Juan Marachial was better. And Gooden? If he was good early in his career that only puts him in a catagory with about a million white pitchers, like Denny McClain, Dave McNally, Sam McDowall, Scott McGregor, just to name 4 white pitchers off the top of my head with names that begin with "Mc"
Black players with drug and alcohol problems? It might be easier to make a list of those that haven't had any.
Tired old White
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Black pitchers would have helped the Babe's home run total. if you do not believe it compare the number of home run per inning that the four decent black pitchers were tagged for versus any 4 top rate white pitchers. I did it once and the blacks get tagged with yard shots a lot more often. One factor may be nearly all good blacks are firballers. What pitch gets sent out more thatn any other?
Baseball Fan
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Oh my fault I forgot about Marichal he outdueled Warren Spahn once getting the complete game win. Tiant wasn't great but was more consistent than any other of the pitchers listed. Besides he was one of the first athletes to get a hair transplant.
As for Gooden his first two years in the big leagues can go down as one of the best of the modern intergrated era, especially 1985. Gotta give the devil his due. Despite his drug problem Gooden is probably in the top 10 of black pitchers that played in the intergrated era. Even if he didn't have drug problems he still would have blown out his arm,who knows maybe the cocaine kept him from feeling pain sooner? Stottlemyre kept trying to make him a ground ball pitcher after 85, but I can't think of one good black finese pitcher in the history of the game what makes you think Gooden is any different. Buddy Harrelson wrecked whatever was left in his arm and by the end of 1991 he was a hasbeen.
As for Gooden his first two years in the big leagues can go down as one of the best of the modern intergrated era, especially 1985. Gotta give the devil his due. Despite his drug problem Gooden is probably in the top 10 of black pitchers that played in the intergrated era. Even if he didn't have drug problems he still would have blown out his arm,who knows maybe the cocaine kept him from feeling pain sooner? Stottlemyre kept trying to make him a ground ball pitcher after 85, but I can't think of one good black finese pitcher in the history of the game what makes you think Gooden is any different. Buddy Harrelson wrecked whatever was left in his arm and by the end of 1991 he was a hasbeen.
Weltner
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Blacks are the most overrated pitchers in MLB history.
foreverfree
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Baseball Fan said:
Baseball Fan, I have my 2007 Sports Encylcopedia: Baseballon my lap, open to 1971. That year, Bad Henry hit 47 dingers, second to Willie Stargell who had 48 for the World Champion Pirates.
Jaxvid, I hope in this era, the Babe would be content with suds, not steroids.
John
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Your correct John, must of missed that one.
Or Bob Gibson. Gibsons career is almost identical to Marichal. They are within a few wins and very close ERA of each other. Jenkins won a few more and had a higher ERA. They are the only 3 black pitchers to put together good careers. All of the others had much shorter careers Vida Blue, Newcombe, etc. Tiant pitched a long time but wasn't considered a great pitcher.
Gibson's life story was interesting he was born Pack Gibson, after his father who died 3 months before his birth, Gibson changed his name to Robert when he turned 18. Despite a childhood filled with health problems, including rickets, asthma, pneumonia, and a heart murmur, he was active in sports as a youth particularly baseball and basketball. After a standout career in baseball and basketball at Tech High in Omaha, Gibson won a basketball scholarship to Creighton University.
In 1957, Gibson received a $4,000.00 bonus to sign with the Cardinals. He delayed his start with the organization for a year, playing with the Harlem Globetrotters, earning the nickname "Bullet" Bob Gibson (his nickname in baseball was "Hoot", after Hoot Gibson, the cowboy and silent movie star). Gibson resigned from the Globetrotters to play baseball because he could not stand the clowning.
A black athlete given a nickname held by a famous white guy.....those were the days!
Gibson's life story was interesting he was born Pack Gibson, after his father who died 3 months before his birth, Gibson changed his name to Robert when he turned 18. Despite a childhood filled with health problems, including rickets, asthma, pneumonia, and a heart murmur, he was active in sports as a youth particularly baseball and basketball. After a standout career in baseball and basketball at Tech High in Omaha, Gibson won a basketball scholarship to Creighton University.
In 1957, Gibson received a $4,000.00 bonus to sign with the Cardinals. He delayed his start with the organization for a year, playing with the Harlem Globetrotters, earning the nickname "Bullet" Bob Gibson (his nickname in baseball was "Hoot", after Hoot Gibson, the cowboy and silent movie star). Gibson resigned from the Globetrotters to play baseball because he could not stand the clowning.
A black athlete given a nickname held by a famous white guy.....those were the days!
Tired old White
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I f Babe ruth had enjoyed the advantage of facing black pither hwe would have hit 1006 carrerr home runs and the single season record would be 85. To make it short and sweet a black pitcher is 41% more likely to give a home run in 9 pitched innings than a white pitcher.
Here is the math.
racepitcher& nbsp; IPHR &nb sp; HR per IP
caucasianMaddux &nb sp;4621.2319 &nb sp; 0.0690 .621
caucasianRyan  ;; ; 5386321 &nbs p;0.0600.536
caucasianFeller &nb sp; 3827224 &n bsp;0.0590.5 27
caucasianKoufax &nb sp;3170.1225 &nb sp; 0.0710 .639
totals4  ;; ; 17004.31089& nbsp; 0.0640.576
NegroGibson& nbsp; 3884.1257 &nbs p;0.0660.596
NegroJenkins 4500.2 484 &nb sp;0.1080.96 8
NegroNewcombe  ;; ; 2154.2252 &n bsp;0.1171.0 53
NegroBlue&nb sp; 3343.1263&nb sp; 0.0790.708
totals4  ;; 13881.61256& nbsp; 0.0900.814
ratio1 to 1.41
Edited by: Tired old White
Here is the math.
racepitcher& nbsp; IPHR &nb sp; HR per IP
caucasianMaddux &nb sp;4621.2319 &nb sp; 0.0690 .621
caucasianRyan  ;; ; 5386321 &nbs p;0.0600.536
caucasianFeller &nb sp; 3827224 &n bsp;0.0590.5 27
caucasianKoufax &nb sp;3170.1225 &nb sp; 0.0710 .639
totals4  ;; ; 17004.31089& nbsp; 0.0640.576
NegroGibson& nbsp; 3884.1257 &nbs p;0.0660.596
NegroJenkins 4500.2 484 &nb sp;0.1080.96 8
NegroNewcombe  ;; ; 2154.2252 &n bsp;0.1171.0 53
NegroBlue&nb sp; 3343.1263&nb sp; 0.0790.708
totals4  ;; 13881.61256& nbsp; 0.0900.814
ratio1 to 1.41
Edited by: Tired old White
J.B. Cash wrote a great line a while back. It went something like, Jackie Robinson's numbers shouldn't have counted because he only played against inferior white players.
Honestly, I don't know if you can compare eras. Ruth swung a 60 ounce bat supposedly, in an era where many games were fixed. I think few pitchers threw in the mid nineties in the 1920s. I don't think the caliber of play, especially pitching, is comparable to today until the 1950s, or post WWII. After WWII, you can start to compare. A big change was after 1919, when Landis had the ball's core changed.
Honestly, I don't know if you can compare eras. Ruth swung a 60 ounce bat supposedly, in an era where many games were fixed. I think few pitchers threw in the mid nineties in the 1920s. I don't think the caliber of play, especially pitching, is comparable to today until the 1950s, or post WWII. After WWII, you can start to compare. A big change was after 1919, when Landis had the ball's core changed.
Freedom said:
???? Everyone knows about the 1919 World Series, but I wasn't aware of other game fixing.
Freedom said:
A 60 oz. bat would be nearly twice as heavy as many of the bats used today. I read somewhere that his heaviest bats were 42 - 44 ozs.
In searching for more information on Ruth, I found an interesting book mentioned at Wikipedia.
Bill Jenkinson's 2006 book, The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs, is a detailed examination of each of Ruth's 714 career home runs, plus several hundred long inside-the-park drives and "fair-foul" balls that would have been ruled fair after a 1931 rule change. The title comes from Ruth's stellar 1921 season, in which the author concludes that Ruth would have hit that many if modern rules and field dimensions were in place.
Edited by: Bart
Babe Ruth would absolutely dominate today. The competition is obviously watered down, considering there are over twice as many major league teams than when he played. This is especially true of pitching; there are very few dominant pitchers today. While the players today are bigger, stronger and faster on average than they were when Ruth played, they are also nearly all sorely lacking in fundamental skills. In other words, they are not as good at playing baseball.
bigunreal wrote: "The competition is obviously watered down, considering there are over twice as many major league teams than when he played."
Yeah, but the US population has tripled since 1915. Prior to post WWII, only small town kids played lots of baseball. Very few city kids played actual baseball(though they played stickball.) Until people moved to suburbs, where it was possible to play baseball every day, I don't think most American city kids played baseball a lot, although they wanted to play.
My father played baseball every day in the summer as a kid, but my grandfather barely played baseball ever.
The fielding probably has gotten worse in general, not to say that there aren't great fielders today. Edited by: Freedom
Yeah, but the US population has tripled since 1915. Prior to post WWII, only small town kids played lots of baseball. Very few city kids played actual baseball(though they played stickball.) Until people moved to suburbs, where it was possible to play baseball every day, I don't think most American city kids played baseball a lot, although they wanted to play.
My father played baseball every day in the summer as a kid, but my grandfather barely played baseball ever.
The fielding probably has gotten worse in general, not to say that there aren't great fielders today. Edited by: Freedom
From another Blog
This question is usually asked as a rhetorical question, being that everyone is supposed to agree that blacks are somehow better than whites at sports.
Our response to this question should always be "Even MORE"
This question is usually asked as a rhetorical question, being that everyone is supposed to agree that blacks are somehow better than whites at sports.
Our response to this question should always be "Even MORE"
C Darwin said:
Yeah, it's a really dumb argument. The better argument would be this one: if the league was integrated, there could have been some black players who could have played at roughly Ruth's level, more or less. I guess that's too hypothetical for them.
Not satisfied with diminishing Babe Ruth's exploits on the field, the media clowns are now claiming he was quite the scoundrel. Michael Wilbon was a guest on ESPN's afternoon show and tried to deflect criticism away from black athletes on to the Bambino. After recitingGeorge Herman's alleged sins and deeds of misconduct, Wilbon boldly asserted that Babe Ruth could be considerd as the Pac-Man Jones of his day. Well, I was aware of his lusty appetites, the drinking, boozing, skirt chasing , and curfew violations, but to compare him with PM Jones is a huge stretch, I would think. Did Dan Patrick say anything in response? Did hequestion Wilbon's assertion in any way? Did he think it was outrageous or at the least an exaggeration? Uh uh. Nary a peep.