Dirk Nowitzki

alln2

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Deadlift said:
Sorry daddy, but I knew full well the narrative that was going to erupt if Dallas defeated Miami... Good blacks defeating the EVIL blacks (Classic SEC football mindset), but you got NOTHING on me in regards to DeShawn.



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Maybe he could be your lovely neighbor in Romania?



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http://www.truthaboutit.net/2009/09/deshawn-stevensons-new-tattoos-and-abe-lincoln.html



Also, I find it very odd how Miami is suddenly treated as a team of ball-hogs when they've dished out a notable number of assists. In Game 6, going by memory, Lebron and Wade had 6 assists apiece and Chalmers had 7 assists! Oh, no, they are a team of "Kobes".. they are.. trust me.. they really are!



I'm almost glad that "das juden" will be making the documentaries about this NBA Finals and not you!! That's right. Yeah, and you took my specific view of DeShawn, and seemingly expanded it to every Mav of color.. lovely smear!



I strongly suspect that some of these posts will be deleted, but, let it be known, I didn't take this thread into the Twighlite Zone.

WTF are you talking about? Where did I smear you? where did I imply that you called all Mavs of color Ns? Talk about paranoia. You yourself claimed that there are good blacks and Ns. I gave my opinion where DeShawn and the other persons of color on Mavs roster stand on that clasification.

About DeShawn, well he did help Dirk get his ring and his MVP. If he shot like Peja did in these Finals, Dirk would still be ringless after this season. And thats the truth, whether you like it or not.

DeShawn is Dirk's locker room neighbour, not mine. I certainly dont want him as my neighbour.
Now that you attacked me and mocked me and my country, maybe I could do the same. We Romanians didnt fought for the marxists in the second world war, it was the idiots from the other part of the ocean who did.
Edited by: alln2
 

TwentyTwo

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No bursting my bubble...if there was a thug on the Mavs if was Stephenson...Udonis Haslem thought it would be cute to stick his sweaty arm pit in his face before timeout.. but he would have none of that. Stephenson had his little Rah~eye~sign when he hit three's...he ain't no choir boy!

I liked the way Marion & Terry got into Lebron's head talking serious smackwhile Dirk continued to inflict damage! 4th qtr Dirk 62 Lebron 18 in the series!!

Dirk was emotional after the game having a moment alone;nice consolation prize to have notto go say "good series" toLeBron & DWade...captain turnover for #6 with 6 turnovers for Lebron...then DWade's technical + dribble off his foot out-of-bounds...priceless after the flu taunt!
 

Don Wassall

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Here's Steve Sailer's article on Dirk and discrimination against White basketball players.
Dallas Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki And U.S. Basketball's De Facto Discrimination Against Whites

By Steve Sailer

This year's National Basketball Association finals match up the Big Three of the Miami Heatâ€"LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Boshâ€"against the Big One of the Dallas Mavericksâ€"German seven-footer Dirk Nowitzki.
(As VDARE.com goes to press (post) on Sunday evening, Dallas is up three games to two, with the final game is 53-51 for the Mavericks at half-time, with Nowitzki, on an off night, going 1 for 12.)
The heroics of Nowitzki, who has averaged 28 points per game in twenty playoff contests this year, have the <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">New York Times[/I] worried about <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"a storyline that many African-American players for years have been sensitive to: the excessive glorification of basketball's Caucasian stars"Â[/B]. [<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">European Sheds Label as He Shops for a Ring[/I] by Harvey Araton, June 9, 2011]
Huh?
What "<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">excessive glorification"Â[/B] of which <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"Caucasian stars"Â[/B]? Who are these white NBA players who are taking all the endorsement contracts away from blacks?
The <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">NYT's [/I]Araton reminds us of the much-dreaded specter of white ethnocentrism:
<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"Peaking in the 1980s with Larry Birdâ€"with whom Nowitzki has been comparedâ€"the belief has been that the white star has been excessively mythologized for working harder and sacrificing more."Â[/B]
Oh, of <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">course[/I]â€"they are still upset about Larry Bird! Granted, Bird retired 19 years ago. And, granted, he was likely the most fun player in the history of the game.
But, the point is that Bird was a white guy and he was really popular, so, all these years later, that's still worrisome. Can't let that happen again!
When Bird was quoted in 2004 that ""¦ as we all know, the majority of fans are white America. If you just had a couple of white guys in there[in the NBA], you might get them a little excited," he was widely denounced by sportswriters as an inbred hillbilly bigot.
All this raises a number of questions that aren't likely to get asked anywhere else. <mso:p>
Has Nowitzki been excessively glorified because he's white?
To answer that, we have to answer two more questions.
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" =disc>
<LI style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1" =Msonormal>First: how good is Nowitzki? </LI>[/list]
Although Nowitzki gets compared to Bird in the press because they are both white, he is not the creative passing genius that Bird was.
Instead, Nowitzki is the BMW 760Li of basketball players: long, agile, and precise. He's likely the best jump-shooting seven-footer ever. (The mechanics of having long limbs mean they are inherently harder to control.) His career free throw percentage, 87.7 percent, is the 14th best of all time, and every player ahead of him is at least three inches shorter. This combination of height, hand-eye coordination, ceaseless practice, and European innovation (he often shoots his fall-away jumper off the <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"wrong"Â[/B] foot to make it unblockable) renders him extremely effective.
Nowitzki turns 33 later this week and is now in the decline phase of his career, having peaked at age 28 in 2007 when he won the NBA's Most Valuable Player Award. With the recent retirement of Shaquille O'Neal, Nowitzki now ranks as the third-leading career scorer among active players, behind only Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett. He also ranks third among active players in a more sophisticated metric of all-around play, Win Shares, ahead of Kobe and behind only Garnett and Tim Duncan. Nowitzki has made the All-NBA team for eleven straight seasons, four times first team All-NBA. In 123 playoff games, he has averaged 26.0 points and 10.4 rebounds, which are better than his regular season marks.
In other words, he may not be Bird, but he's really good.
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" =disc>
<LI style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1" =Msonormal>Second: how celebrated has Nowitzki been in the American media? </LI>[/list]
It turns out that, even after 13 years in the NBA, Nowitzki is relatively low in name recognition in the U.S. Cheryl Hall reported in the <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Dallas Morning News[/I] (June 1, 2011):
<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"No matter how things shake out with the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA Finals, Dirk Nowitzki is unlikely to become a highly pursued pitchmanâ€"even if he wins MVP honors. Nearly two-thirds of American consumers still don't recognize the Mavericks' superstar forward "¦"Â[/B]
This despite the fact that Nowitzki's English is good. In fact, by now his accent can sound, when he chooses, more Texan than German. He's quite popular in North Texas and in Germany (he carried the German flag in the opening ceremony of the 2008 Olympics). But he doesn't excite much interest in most of America. He's not the best-known player in the Finals, or even on his own team. Hall writes:
"Nowitzki is practically invisible compared to Miami Heat superstar LeBron James, who is recognized by eight of 10 consumers. Even Mavericks teammate Jason Kidd scores higher, with nearly half of consumers knowing who he is."Â
Not surprisingly, Nowitzki gets fewer endorsements than LeBron or Dwyane. Thus economist Patrick Rishe noted in <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Forbes[/I] on May 31, 2011: <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"Unfortunately for Dirk, based on <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Sports Illustrated's[/I] data, LeBron's endorsement income is 460% greater than Dirk's."Â[/B]
In short: the claim that Nowitzki is excessively glorified for being Caucasian would appear to be a complete myth.
Indeed, Nowitzki's not being black works against his popularity with blacks, with white liberals, and, in general, with the more immature sort of whitesâ€"the kind who hate Duke U. for playing a lot of whites. And Nowitzki's not being American tends to work against him with white conservatives. Overall, white Americans tend to be much more nationalistic than racialistic.
That doesn't mean, however, that Bird was wrong in saying that the NBA could benefit from some white stars. Specifically, it could use white <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">American[/I] stars. Compared to the National Football League, which features numerous homegrown white superstar quarterbacks such as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, the NBA is a less popular league. The NMRRP graphs I posted a couple of weeks ago in VDARE.com show that the NBA's fan base is much smaller than the NFL's or even college football's, and it severely lacks Republican fans.
So that raises other questions almost never discussed in public: What happened to the NBA's white American stars? Why are there so many more foreign white stars? Does this disparate impact amount to evidence of discrimination against whites in American basketball before they can reach the professional level?
We can quantify the shortfall of white American players relative to white foreigners by looking at the list of the 50 best active players in terms of cumulative career achievement as measured by Win Shares on Basketball-Reference.com.
There are nine white players out of the top 50, eight of whom grew up abroad: #3 is Nowitzki, #8 Steve Nash, #14 Pau Gasol, #22 Peja Stojakovic, #25 Manu Ginobili, #36 Andrei Kirilenko, #37 Zydrunas Ilgauskas, #47 Hedo Turkoglu.
Only one American white is in the top 50: #28, Brad Miller, a 35-year-old center. He's the last white American to play in two NBA All Star games, back in 2003 and 2004. It's perhaps worth mentioning that Miller went to high school in nearly all-white Maine.
Why are there so few white American players?
Is it height? Probably not. There are some countries in Europe that are taller on average than white Americans, most famously the Netherlands. But the Dutch, like most Northern Europeans other than Lithuanians, aren't that interested in basketball. Even with Nowitzki on their Olympic team, Germany only went 1-4 at the 2008 Olympics, demonstrating that basketball isn't a huge sport there.
Basketball has long been popular in Southern Europe, and with the increase in average heights in Mediterranean countries, the NBA is seeing more players from that area, such as seven-foot Gasol brothers, from Spain (technically Catalonia).
On the whole, while there are more whites outside the U.S. than in it, interest in basketball is much lower overseas. So it's hard to explain this 8 to 1 ratio in terms of the pool of contenders.
So what has caused the decline of the white American basketball player during the rise of the white non-American player? Why, as it appears, is it harder for a tall white kid to learn basketball in the U.S., the country that invented basketball, than in some place where ski jumping is considered a major sport?
My hypothesis: the difference is due to various forms of discrimination, some inadvertent, some overt, such as bullying by blacks.
One crucial change in American basketball over the last generation: the increased emphasis on finding and promoting the best athletes at young ages. Whites tend to mature physically later than blacks, so the acceleration of the selection process works against gawky young whites.
Relative maturity matters a lot in youth sports. For instance, Canadian professional hockey players are more likely to be born in January than in December because the cutoff date for age-group hockey leagues in Canada is January 1st. Boys born in January will go through their youth hockey careers nearly a year older than boys born in December, and will be more likely to be chosen for all-star traveling squads. December-born boys are more likely to get discouraged or get interested in another sport where they won't get pushed around by older boys.
Basketball has become a game for early-bloomers. LeBron James, for example, is only 26 years old. Nevertheless, people have lately been getting kind of tired of him, in part because he's been famous for almost a decade, since he was a 6'-8"Â 240-pound high school junior on the cover of <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Sports Illustrated[/I].
A further change in youth basketball also works against whites: the proliferation of showcase events outside of school sports. Rather than the lengthy traditional apprenticeship on school teams, the modern American game is all about identifying young prospects through AAU travel squads that compete in showcases for prospects. (For example, here's a highlight reel of 10-year-old A.A.U. phenom Tyrik Suggs.)
Michael Sokolove wrote in the <I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">New York Times Magazine[/I] in 2009:
<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"All youth sports now operate on fast-forward. Just about any kid with some ability takes road trips with his or her team by the age of 12, flying on planes and staying in hotels. That used to happen, if at all, only after an athlete was skilled enough to play in college. "¦ But basketball operates at a level beyond other sports "¦ and in recent years, the attention, benefits and temptations that fall on top high-school players have settled on an ever-younger group."Â[[/B]<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Allonzo Trier Is in the Game[/I], March 19, 2009<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">][/B]
Sokolove profiled one sixth grader who <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"is flown around the country by A.A.U. teams that want him to play for them in tournamentsâ€"and by basketball promoters who use him to add luster to their events"Â[/B]. He explains that "A.A.U. <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">"stands for Amateur Athletic Union but [/B][its]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> practices mock traditional definitions of amateurism."Â[/B]
The rise of travel squads independent of school sports has meant that games tend to segregate themselves racially. For example, you might have wondered why there have been so few Hispanics on recent U.S. World Cup soccer teams. One reason is that in the U.S., elite youth soccer takes a lot of parental investment in plane tickets, and thus tends to be a preserve of the affluent. Sokolove has argued that the system keeps the American World Cup team less skilled than it could be, but soccer parents don't seem to mind. They'd rather keep their children's game upscale and genteel.
But in contrast to soccer, the most glamorous basketball travel squads tend to be organized by inner-city hustlers with shady connections with college coaches and shoe companies. White parents are reluctant to get their kids involved in that kind of dubious enterprise.
And the white kids themselves aren't that crazy about playing in travel squad leagues where black ways are the norms. Extremely tall teenage white boys tend to be awkward and self-conscious until they finally mature. They're easy to bully, especially by black youths who take a racially proprietary view of the sport.
Moreover, until the 1970s, colleges expected basketball players to stay around for four years. In fact, athletes couldn't play varsity ball until they were sophomores. That gave college coaches an incentive to recruit players who might be long-term projects instead of the current emphasis on one-and-done prodigies.
An extreme example of the slow-maturing white guy: 7'4"Â 290 pound Mark Eaton. At age 24, after having spent three years as an auto mechanic, he was averaging only two minutes per game as the backup center at UCLA because he still looked dorky. But he went on to set a bundle of shot-blocking records for the Utah Jazz.
A more typical case: a seven-footer named Paul Mokeski. When I was in high school, Mokeski was the center for archrival Crespi High. As a junior, he was painfully uncoordinated. But when he was a senior, my school's team could barely get a shot off against him. By age 18, he'd started to figure out how to control his body. He went off to the University of Kansas and by the time he was a senior there he was a pretty good college basketball player. He then enjoyed a dozen years in the NBA as a backup center.
That's the kind of slow ripening impossible in today's turbocharged American youth basketball pipeline.
In contrast, Dirk Nowitzki grew up in a country where most basketball players don't see themselves as the leading representatives of a different, adversarial culture. Instead, they are just tall guys in a homogenous society.
Diversity (as we all know) is strength! It's also"¦some paradoxical, and perturbing, counter currents.
http://vdare.com/sailer/110612_nowitzki.htm</mso:p>
 

Colonel_Reb

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Good article there by Sailer, I gotta give him some credit.
 

white is right

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Thrashen said:
Last evening was yet another abysmal, Jew-Quivering moment for the Caste System and it's disciples to endure.

An authentic white superstar (Nowitski) from Germany, in conjunction with a team of white role players (Barea, Cardinal, Stojakovic) and non-threatening blacks (Kidd, Terry, Chandler, Marion, Stevenson) conquests the most touted basketball team in NBA history"¦a squad featuring the pinnacle of Afro-narcissism, LeBron James.

As for JJ Barea, it's obvious that he has entirely white ancestry"¦light-brown hair, blue eyes, light skin and entirely white facial features.

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I don't know his socio-economic background but if his Spanish ancestry is recent it's easy to trace. It's White looking Puerto Ricans that can't trace back their lineage to Spain or other European countries that in many cases have some Black or Aboriginal ancestry. Ie J-LO or Marc Anthony, Jimmy Smits and others.

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Dirk is the best player in the NBA right now. And depending on what position he wants to play he is the best small forward (ahead of LeBron and Durant), the best power forward (ahead of Amare, Z Bo, and Bosh), and perhaps even the best CENTER. Dwight Howard is a better rebounder and shot blocker (one of the best in the league), but Dirk is pretty good in both categories and he is a MUCH better passer. His shooting touch and low post offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Howard and is automatic from the line unlike Howard. Dirk has another edge over Howard: he is probably a couple of inches taller than the Magic center.

Not only is Dirk a top 15-20 player (should be top 10 by the end of his career) all-time he is currently the 3rd best forward behind Larry Bird and Tim Duncan he is also one of the best seven-footers ever surpassed by only Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Duncan. Olajuwon was closer to 6'10 and Bill Russell was around 6'9. He could pass Duncan on both lists if he wins another ring or two and if he plays at a high level for another five years. ... Kareem played for 20 years so why can't Dirk? Kareem's game mixed great size, length, shooting touch, fundamentals, finesse, a high basketball IQ, and leadership skills which are traits that Dirk currently possesses. If he played another 5 years (and not 7) he would retire just before his 38th birthday with around 30,000 points, well over 10,000 rebounds, 3,000 assists, 1,000 steals, 1,000 blocks, and 1,000 three pointers.
 

foobar75

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I scanned the web today, looking at various articles about the just concluded championship. The samples included the national media (ESPN, Foxsports, Yahoo, etc), Dallas and Miami markets, and even Cleveland.

There's a near universal theme regarding any piece written about Lebron James: Disdain, mockery, ridicule, and nothing but criticsm. The same was true of almost all the comments that followed said articles by the readers and fans. It's safe to say he's the most hated athlete in America today, and this shows me that even the jock-sniffing sports media and DWFs have a certain standard before they turn on you. It's refreshing to say the least. He has a small number defenders/apologists, but by and large, the great majority can't stand him.

On the opposite side, I have seen nothing but compliments and praise for Dirk Nowitzki, all of it 100% deserved. The significance of this achievement is now even clearer the day after. A White man from Germany was the cornerstone and superstar of his franchise, and led them to a championship in a black man's league, against 2 of the top 5 players in that league. Oh, and along the way, he also had mind-blowing performances against the Lakers and OKC, who feature 2 of the other top 5 players (Kobe, Durant).

So, in summary, Dirk and the Mavs eliminated 3 teams on their way to the championship, he faced 4 of the top 5 players along the way, all black (Dirk himself being the other member of that top 5), and he thoroughly outplayed each and every one of them, while establishing his legacy as an all-time great. It brings a big smile to my face every time I think about it.
 

j41181

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News of Dirk's triumph is spreading across borders and sports. Nice to see it gain some serious attention, especially in his home country of Germany. Whatever criticism and doubts there was on Nowitzki over the past 13 years, they have quickly faded into memory. IMO, comparisons to past greats (in particular Larry Bird and Hakeem Olajuwon) have become more reasonable, for Dirk has attained his OWN legendary status.

http://www.canada.com/Kaymer+while+prepping+Open/4942421/story.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/14/us-nba-nowitzki-germany-idUSTRE75D1RI20110614

http://tvnz.co.nz/basketball-news/martin-devlin-who-said-white-men-can-t-jump-4226962

pistol pete said:
If he played another 5 years (and not 7) he would retire just before his 38th birthday with around 30,000 points, well over 10,000 rebounds, 3,000 assists, 1,000 steals, 1,000 blocks, and 1,000 three pointers.

Time to bring out the stat freak in me...

If Dirk were to end his career with such a statistical feat, he will become the ONLY player in NBA history to do so. So far NO NBA player has done so... at least 1,000 in EVERY statistical category...

Games Played (Games Started)
Points
FG's (made & attempts)
3pt's (made & attempts)
FT's (made & attempts)
Rebounds (offensive & defensive)
Assists
Steals
Blocks
Fouls
TO's

His weakest stat is in STEALS, he'll need to make 40-50 steals per season in the next 4-5 years to reach 1,000 steals.

Another amazing milestone Nowitzki could reach is the 4,000th career post season plateau (currently has 3,214 career post season points). Another run to the NBA finals, and several deep playoff runs in the next 4-5 years will just do it.
 

j41181

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I know this seems a bit late, but I'll say it anyway...

Other big significances for the Dallas triumph is this...

THREE of the most accomplished WHITE Europeans ever to play in the NBA have won NBA rings... Peja Stojakovic, Pau Gasol, and Dirk Nowitzki (also Finals MVP). Tony Parker did win a Finals MVP in 2007, but his reputation has since been tarnished, thanks to the scandal of his infidelity (Brent Barry's wife) and divorce (Eva Longoria).

Gasol's triumph can't be overlooked, being the secondary superstar of the Lakers' back to back titles, and his 19 points, 18 rebounds, 2 blocks in Game 7 of 2010 Finals (vs. Boston) nothing short of Legendary.

Stojakovic was clearly non existent in the recent finals, but his contribution in the first 2 playoff rounds (Blazers and Lakers) is significant in itself, culminating with a 21 point (6-6 3pt's) effort in the series clinching Game 4 against the Lakers.

As for Nowitzki, well his tremendous performances against the Lakers, Oklahoma, and Miami is simply the stuff of legends. Several wins in COME FROM BEHIND fashion, 48 & 40 point games, a Game Winner, a FLU game, and lastly being Mr. 4TH QUARTER throughout the post season. All that ending with the 2011 NBA title & Finals MVP. It's been said many times over, but he's truly one of the Greatest Players in NBA history. So Larry Bird has (technically) gotten his wish.
 

Westside

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I believe Dirk is now knocking on the door and about to step into the 20 all time great ballers in the NBA. He has a great 2011 and a another Championship plus Finals or Season MVP, now we are talking TOP 15 players maybe more.
 

Deadlift

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pistol pete said:
Dirk is the best player in the NBA right now. And depending on what position he wants to play he is the best small forward (ahead of LeBron and Durant), the best power forward (ahead of Amare, Z Bo, and Bosh), and perhaps even the best CENTER. Dwight Howard is a better rebounder and shot blocker (one of the best in the league), but Dirk is pretty good in both categories and he is a MUCH better passer. His shooting touch and low post offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Howard and is automatic from the line unlike Howard. Dirk has another edge over Howard: he is probably a couple of inches taller than the Magic center.

How is Bosh even in this discussion? He's only hyped because he could take shots in abundance while in Toronto (thanks to him being black and a lottery pick..). The "PPG" stat can be very misleading, and should never lead to instant annointment of anyone.

Al Jefferson, J.J. Hickson, Marcin Gortat, Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge are ALL better than Bosh. And, even though Jefferson and Aldridge have some of the same rebounding issues of Bosh, they are clearly superior to him on defense.

I am very thankful that Bosh didn't get a ring this year, because the media would have gone even more crazy for him, and say - "you can't take the ring from him, you can't deny the ring."


P.S. -- While in Toronto, I have no doubt that many opponents would allow Bosh to get his "numbers".. knowing full-well that Toronto would still likely lose anyways. Constantly feeding one guy the ball is usually a poor strategy in a team's quest to get Ws, and defenses know this. Or, in other cases, if a guard hogs the ball, like a Tyreke Evans or Brandon Jennings.
 

alln2

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Deadlift said:
P.S. -- ... Constantly feeding one guy the ball is usually a poor strategy in a team's quest to get Ws, and defenses know this...

Unless the time is clutch time, and the guy's name is Dirk Nowitzki. Then its the best strategy to get the W
smiley1.gif
 

white is right

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Deadlift said:
pistol pete said:
Dirk is the best player in the NBA right now. And depending on what position he wants to play he is the best small forward (ahead of LeBron and Durant), the best power forward (ahead of Amare, Z Bo, and Bosh), and perhaps even the best CENTER. Dwight Howard is a better rebounder and shot blocker (one of the best in the league), but Dirk is pretty good in both categories and he is a MUCH better passer. His shooting touch and low post offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Howard and is automatic from the line unlike Howard. Dirk has another edge over Howard: he is probably a couple of inches taller than the Magic center.

How is Bosh even in this discussion? He's only hyped because he could take shots in abundance while in Toronto (thanks to him being black and a lottery pick..). The "PPG" stat can be very misleading, and should never lead to instant annointment of anyone.

Al Jefferson, J.J. Hickson, Marcin Gortat, Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge are ALL better than Bosh. And, even though Jefferson and Aldridge have some of the same rebounding issues of Bosh, they are clearly superior to him on defense.

I am very thankful that Bosh didn't get a ring this year, because the media would have gone even more crazy for him, and say - "you can't take the ring from him, you can't deny the ring."


P.S. -- While in Toronto, I have no doubt that many opponents would allow Bosh to get his "numbers".. knowing full-well that Toronto would still likely lose anyways. Constantly feeding one guy the ball is usually a poor strategy in a team's quest to get Ws, and defenses know this. Or, in other cases, if a guard hogs the ball, like a Tyreke Evans or Brandon Jennings.
Bosh was always viewed as "soft". He was viewed as a compiler more than a true superstar. I think he has even been publicly punked by fellow NBA players. While he isn't more than a highly skilled complimentary player nobody can question his heart after this series he played about as hard as he could being the third option for Miami.
 
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Bosh had a pretty good playoffs and killed Boozer. Yes, Dirk was the best guy in the playoffs, and Z Bo had a great playoffs too, but Chris Bosh WAS the third best power forward in the playoffs. He is not as good as Love or Griffin but those two players didn't make the playoffs. LA is good on the Blazers and might be just behind Bosh. Pau had an off year this playoffs and I think he will get back on track next year as a top playoff big man (just behind Dirk) and one of the top 3 seven footers (Dirk, Pau, Howard). Bosh had a good postseason and wasn't the reason that the Heat lost.

Yeah, Dirk is top 15 easy now with a title and Finals MVP this year with a classic 48 point game and some buzzer beating layups. He also has another Finals appearance in 2006 followed up by an MVP in 2007. Great scoring numbers with great shooting stats and good rebounding and blocks numbers throughout his career.

Is he top 10 all-time? Maybe not yet, but he could be soon. Top 10 locks are Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, and Magic. Those are 7 guys. I would also put Kobe in there (5 titles, 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVP, 35 points per game in a season with an 81 point game). With the other two spots it's a competition between Duncan, Dirk, Olajuwon, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson. Duncan has 4 rings, Hakeem has 2, but the other guys have 1 (Robertson doesn't have a Finals MVP though). If Dirk wins another title then I think he passes West, Big O, and Hakeem on the list. I think he has passed Robertson since he got his only title with Kareem and Kareem was the Finals MVP.
 
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Bosh had a pretty good playoffs and killed Boozer. Yes, Dirk was the best guy in the playoffs, and Z Bo had a great playoffs too, but Chris Bosh WAS the third best power forward in the playoffs. He is not as good as Love or Griffin but those two players didn't make the playoffs. LA is good on the Blazers and might be just behind Bosh. Pau had an off year this playoffs and I think he will get back on track next year as a top playoff big man (just behind Dirk) and one of the top 3 seven footers (Dirk, Pau, Howard). Bosh had a good postseason and wasn't the reason that the Heat lost.

Yeah, Dirk is top 15 easy now with a title and Finals MVP this year with a classic 48 point game and some buzzer beating layups. He also has another Finals appearance in 2006 followed up by an MVP in 2007. Great scoring numbers with great shooting stats and good rebounding and blocks numbers throughout his career.

Is he top 10 all-time? Maybe not yet, but he could be soon. Top 10 locks are Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, and Magic. Those are 7 guys. I would also put Kobe in there (5 titles, 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVP, 35 points per game in a season with an 81 point game). With the other two spots it's a competition between Duncan, Dirk, Olajuwon, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson. Duncan has 4 rings, Hakeem has 2, but the other guys have 1 (Robertson doesn't have a Finals MVP though). If Dirk wins another title then I think he passes West, Big O, and Hakeem on the list. I think he has passed Robertson since he got his only title with Kareem and Kareem was the Finals MVP.
 
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Basketball-reference.com has Dirk rated 9th all-time just behind Tim Duncan and Oscar Robertson, and just ahead of
Kobe. Both are ahead of Hakeem, and Shaq. Their top five is MJ, Wilt, Magic, Kareem, and Bird. West and Stockton are ranked 13 and 14 on their list. Hondo is at 25, Nash is at 26, and Bob Pettit is at 28.

I thought that was neat. Check it out!
 

alln2

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Dirk is easy top 10. One of only 4 guys to put on average 25ppg and 10 rpg every playoff game.

He was robbed of a ring in 06, when dwhistle shot 97 FTs. Dwhistle hits Dirk and dirk gets called for the foul, thats how bad it was. As Phil Jackson said, paraphrasing, dallas couldnt even stare at Dwhistle without getting called for the foul.

All the locks in your top 10 did it with stacked teams, with other all-stars on their team. Dirk didnt had that in 06 or now.

Dirk vs Kobrick IMO Dirk + prime Shaq + refs = at least 2 rings. Dirk + Gasol/Bynum/Odom = at least 3 rings(last 3 years, maybe even 2008).

Dirk vs Duncan Dirk + Ginobili + Parker = at least 3 rings.
Dirk's second best teammate last years was Jason Terry, who put disapearance act after disapearance act in plenty of playoffs. Dallas centers before Chandler were Diop and Dampier, awful centers.

Dirk compared with other greats in the Finals. Even with the horrible first half of game 6, no player finished the NBAFinals with a higher plus/minus than Dirk (plus-55). Thats how important Dirk was to his team, and it showed in the regular season, when Dallas went 2-7 without Dirk, they wouldnt even made the playoffs without him.
While the Lakers without Kobrick. Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662

Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games) http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/lakers-cavs-records-without-kobe-lebron-1370997/
 

white lightning

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I agree. Before it's all said and done, he should be considered by most to be a top ten player. In my opinion, he is already top 15 at the least! He good is a basketball player when they throw the whole team at you and still can't stop you. Amazing talent!
 

j41181

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German Pride, baby!
smiley16.gif


http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,768393,00.html

06/14/2011

Fulfilling the Dream
Dirk Nowitzki Becomes the Ultimate German Star</font>
By Charles Hawley
AFP

Basketball star Dirk Nowitzki has accomplished what no other German athlete has ever been able to: He is now a bona fide American hero. And he has made it popular to love a German.

Timo Boll. Pascal Hens. Georg Hackl. It is a rare occurrence, but every so often in Germany, soccer stars do not grace the front pages of the nation's sports sections. And in recent years, whenever the "beautiful game" has been shunted aside, it has been for a rather odd menagerie of second-tier sports. Boll, for example, is a household name for his pingpong excellence. Hens excels in team handball. Hackl? Olympic luge. Martin Kaymer, who has made a splash in the US recently, is the next big thing in golf.

Germany's most recently crowned sports star, however, is different. Dubbed "Dirkules" by the gushing German media, Dirk Nowitzki -- together with his Dallas Mavericks teammates -- managed to become an NBA champion on Sunday evening in Miami after 10 straight fruitless trips to the playoffs. By vanquishing the detested Miami Heat -- and their star, LeBron James, one of America's most hated figures in sports -- Nowitzki became a bona fide American hero.

In doing so, Nowitzki arguably joined the pantheon of the best players ever to play the game -- and certainly became the best European ever. Perhaps more importantly, Nowitzki, as an undisputed team leader in a US-dominated sport, which often values individual attitude and toughness over the collective, fulfilled a uniquely German sporting dream. He made it popular to love a German.

There have, of course, been other cuddly German sports stars. Both tennis greats Steffi Graf and Boris Becker had legions of admirers in their day. Formula One driver Michael Schumacher likewise had plenty of fans. And Detlef Schrempf paved Nowitzki's way to the NBA.

A Bit of Pride and Flag Waving

Nowitzki-mania, though, is different. He is the most recent example of a national awakening which began during the 2006 World Cup. It was an event that proved to the world -- but more importantly, to the Germans themselves -- that a bit of pride and flag-waving was acceptable. It showed that Germany, after decades of striving to remain in the background and to be the perfect European team player in atonement for its past, was ready to tentatively and constructively assert itself.

Even better, whereas the German national football team has gained sympathy points for being young, precocious and an accurate reflection of Germany's multi-cultural diversity, Nowitzki did it by imposing his brand of German middle-class reserve and perfectionist preparation on a game full of egos.

"I just think this is a win for team basketball," Nowitzki said in a post-game interview. "This is a win for playing as a team on both ends of the floor, for sharing the ball, for passing the ball."

Such platitudes, of course, could easily be discounted as being typical sporting fare. Yet coming from Nowitzki, they ring true. While the entire basketball world was focused on LeBron James' massively hyped decision last summer as to where he would "take his talents," choosing the Miami Heat over the Cleveland Cavaliers, where he starred for seven seasons, Nowitzki quietly signed a contract extension with the only NBA team he has ever played for. His father Jörg-Werner, who still lives in Dirk's Bavarian hometown of Würzburg, didn't even make the trip to the finals because a co-worker was on vacation and his painting company couldn't do without him.

Nowitzki's own career has been a reflection of that ethic. When he first arrived in Dallas in 1998, he was a gangly player with a deadly accurate shot and admirable ball-handling skills for a seven-footer. But he was not the kind of explosive athlete that generally excels in the NBA, and he was easily pushed around by more muscular American players. Indeed, despite establishing the Mavericks as one of the best teams in the league over the last decade, Nowitzki was labeled "soft" by his detractors. His team's loss to the Miami Heat in the 2006 finals seemed to cement that image among American sports writers.

The Ultimate Success

But Nowitzki continued to work. When his shot wasn't falling, he would call in his personal trainer Holger Geschwinder from Germany for late night shooting sessions. He worked hard on his passing and on his defense. And he stayed modest. He became, in short, exactly the kind of sports star that Americans love -- except that his team never quite managed to achieve the ultimate success.

Germany's 2006 World Cup effort, of course, also fell short -- as did the 2010 campaign last year. One wonders if the team, had it won, would have been quite as universally liked as Nowitzki is now. Germany, after all, has a history of imposing its will on global football. But the domestic and international popularity of the German national team surely testified to a country slowly leaving decades of soul-searching behind.

Dirk Nowitzki now represents the culmination of that development. He had plenty of help, to be sure. LeBron James' pre-season boasting combined with his triumphantly celebrated arrival in Miami last year made him into arguably the most hated figure in American sports. By vanquishing him, Nowitzki instantly became America's favorite player. The toughness, leadership and exquisite play he displayed on the court didn't hurt either.

And Germany finally has what it has wanted for so long: an indisputable global sports star as popular in America and internationally as he is at home. An admired representative of the new, post-World Cup Germany. A legitimate hero. The country can now leave the lugers alone.
 

j41181

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If Dirk were to end his career as of now, this would be his All-Time Great placing from a "mainstream" perspective:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Larry Bird
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Jerry West
13. Moses Malone
14. Elgin Baylor
15. Julius Erving
16. John Havlicek
17. Karl Malone
18. Bob Pettitt
19. Scottie Pippen
20. Kevin Garnett
21. Charles Barkley
22. John Stockton
23. LeBron James
24. Bob Cousy
25. Isaiah Thomas
26. Rick Barry
27. Dirk Nowitzki
28. Dwyane Wade
29. David Robinson
30. Jason Kidd

He could crack the Top 10 by winning another NBA ring/Finals MVP, and by bringing his regular season/post season career scoring past 25,000 and 3,500 points respectively.

He's currently a 10-time NBA All-Star and selected to 11 All-NBA teams (4 First teams). At least 3 more of each will boost his All-Time standing also.
 

DixieDestroyer

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Congrats to MVP Dirk for leading the Mavs past overhyped "Queen LeBrown" inc.! :)
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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pistol pete said:
Bosh had a pretty good playoffs and killed Boozer. Yes, Dirk was the best guy in the playoffs, and Z Bo had a great playoffs too, but Chris Bosh WAS the third best power forward in the playoffs. He is not as good as Love or Griffin but those two players didn't make the playoffs. LA is good on the Blazers and might be just behind Bosh. Pau had an off year this playoffs and I think he will get back on track next year as a top playoff big man (just behind Dirk) and one of the top 3 seven footers (Dirk, Pau, Howard). Bosh had a good postseason and wasn't the reason that the Heat lost.

Yeah, Dirk is top 15 easy now with a title and Finals MVP this year with a classic 48 point game and some buzzer beating layups. He also has another Finals appearance in 2006 followed up by an MVP in 2007. Great scoring numbers with great shooting stats and good rebounding and blocks numbers throughout his career.

Is he top 10 all-time? Maybe not yet, but he could be soon. Top 10 locks are Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, and Magic. Those are 7 guys. I would also put Kobe in there (5 titles, 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVP, 35 points per game in a season with an 81 point game). With the other two spots it's a competition between Duncan, Dirk, Olajuwon, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson. Duncan has 4 rings, Hakeem has 2, but the other guys have 1 (Robertson doesn't have a Finals MVP though). If Dirk wins another title then I think he passes West, Big O, and Hakeem on the list. I think he has passed Robertson since he got his only title with Kareem and Kareem was the Finals MVP.

I like your all time great lists, other than that I think you're being a little too generous to Shaq. Now mind you I'm more of a football analyst- and I have a bit of a bias against him, b/c he got all the calls against the Kings in 2002 (when Vlade did a spectacular job guarding him).

I will take back what I said by putting Bill Walton ahead of Shaq- as that doesn't really make sense. I believe Bill would have surpassed Shaq- in my mind- if he could have stayed healthy and played longer, but he did not. When I look at Shaq I see a great player, but one who would have struggled through foul trouble (mostly offensive) in his career if the officiating was better like it used to be in the old days. I will say that Shaq started to change his game later in his career as the officiating seemed to tighten up on him a bit. By the 2006 NBA finals with Miami his footwork had improved to avoid ramming into the post defenders and he was making nice spins and improved his game making more shots out to 10-12 feet. Of course it could have just been that Dallas didn't have a Vlade to stop him lol.

As for J41181's list, I'm guessing you're predicting by the end of their careers? That may be possible, but no doubt Dirk is way ahead of Lebron now. Garnett got his title with two other great players and wasn't "the man" on that Celtics team. I'd put Dirk ahead of Garnett. Of course Lebron and Garnett got the head start on Dirk both jumping to the NBA straight out of H.S. Karl Malone and Duncan are in the discussion to be ahead of Dirk at PF, but I believe Dirk will surpass them both by the end of his career!


"By the end of their careers" here's my prediction of the top 7 all time centers:
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Hakeem "the Dream".
5. Dwight Howard
6. Shaq
7. Bill Walton

I'm not too aware of some of the much older greats games/ styles like Bob Pettit, George Mikan? did he play center? George Mikan was ages ago for someone my age lol.
Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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Oh j41181, sorry I missed the "mainstream" perspective part. I will say that I think most fans realize that Dirk is better than Lebron "this year". Heck, Charles Barkley called Dirk "the best player in the NBA this year" "BEFORE THE FINALS STARTED". According to some posters Barkley is too hard on certain white players- so that says a lot of Dirk's recognition by media and fans this year.
 
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ToughJ.Riggins said:
pistol pete said:
Bosh had a pretty good playoffs and killed Boozer. Yes, Dirk was the best guy in the playoffs, and Z Bo had a great playoffs too, but Chris Bosh WAS the third best power forward in the playoffs. He is not as good as Love or Griffin but those two players didn't make the playoffs. LA is good on the Blazers and might be just behind Bosh. Pau had an off year this playoffs and I think he will get back on track next year as a top playoff big man (just behind Dirk) and one of the top 3 seven footers (Dirk, Pau, Howard). Bosh had a good postseason and wasn't the reason that the Heat lost.

Yeah, Dirk is top 15 easy now with a title and Finals MVP this year with a classic 48 point game and some buzzer beating layups. He also has another Finals appearance in 2006 followed up by an MVP in 2007. Great scoring numbers with great shooting stats and good rebounding and blocks numbers throughout his career.

Is he top 10 all-time? Maybe not yet, but he could be soon. Top 10 locks are Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, and Magic. Those are 7 guys. I would also put Kobe in there (5 titles, 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVP, 35 points per game in a season with an 81 point game). With the other two spots it's a competition between Duncan, Dirk, Olajuwon, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson. Duncan has 4 rings, Hakeem has 2, but the other guys have 1 (Robertson doesn't have a Finals MVP though). If Dirk wins another title then I think he passes West, Big O, and Hakeem on the list. I think he has passed Robertson since he got his only title with Kareem and Kareem was the Finals MVP.

I like your all time great lists, other than that I think you're being a little too generous to Shaq. Now mind you I'm more of a football analyst- and I have a bit of a bias against him, b/c he got all the calls against the Kings in 2002 (when Vlade did a spectacular job guarding him).

I will take back what I said by putting Bill Walton ahead of Shaq- as that doesn't really make sense. I believe Bill would have surpassed Shaq- in my mind- if he could have stayed healthy and played longer, but he did not. When I look at Shaq I see a great player, but one who would have struggled through foul trouble (mostly offensive) in his career if the officiating was better like it used to be in the old days. I will say that Shaq started to change his game later in his career as the officiating seemed to tighten up on him a bit. By the 2006 NBA finals with Miami his footwork had improved to avoid ramming into the post defenders and he was making nice spins and improved his game making more shots out to 10-12 feet. Of course it could have just been that Dallas didn't have a Vlade to stop him lol.

As for J41181's list, I'm guessing you're predicting by the end of their careers? That may be possible, but no doubt Dirk is way ahead of Lebron now. Garnett got his title with two other great players and wasn't "the man" on that Celtics team. I'd put Dirk ahead of Garnett. Of course Lebron and Garnett got the head start on Dirk both jumping to the NBA straight out of H.S. Karl Malone and Duncan are in the discussion to be ahead of Dirk at PF, but I believe Dirk will surpass them both by the end of his career!


"By the end of their careers" here's my prediction of the top 7 all time centers:
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. Hakeem "the Dream".
5. Dwight Howard
6. Shaq
7. Bill Walton

I'm not too aware of some of the much older greats games/ styles like Bob Pettit, George Mikan? did he play center? George Mikan was ages ago for someone my age lol.

Bob Petit was a forward, not a center. I saw him play on TV.
 
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