Toby Gerhart

JReb1 said:

ToughJ.Riggins said:

I think the last comment should read we SHOULD be looking to help blacks and whites in poverty get more academic scholarships if they can cut it as students- and we SHOULD be helping white kids get equal opportunity when it comes to football and basketball.

Click to expand...

True. The fact is there are more poor White kids in American then black and Latinos combined, yet the majority of White people assume poverty is a non-white problem and we only have special programs for kids of color to get a free ride in college which is a disgrace. This is why the Caste system bothers me so much. So many deserving Whites with the talent to play at an FBS school that are denied scholarships and if they walk on they have to go through a million hurdles to ever play.

Click to expand...

Furthermore, no black affletes ever faced the discrimination that modern white athletes endure. Even back during the days when blacks could not play MLB and the NFL was a red headed step child to college football, blacks had their Negro baseball League and their black colleges where they alone were afforded opportunities. Today, it is just too bad out of luck, no where to turn, no one cares for many of today's white athletes. There are no white only professional leagues or white only colleges. Even at the lower levels in college like division II & III, the caste system still has some sway, while blacks still have their black colleges, and pro leagues like the NFL and NBA are defacto affirmative action leagues for blacks, while MLB is doing its best to implement more blacks as well as become an affirmative action league for Hispanics.

When MLB, mainstream colleges and the professional football did open up to blacks, then they had their equal chance to achieve at all positions with perhaps the exception of QB due to the belief that blacks were not smart enough to play the most cerebral position in all of sports. Ironically, today that stereotype still holds some truth, and blacks genuinely struggle as pro style passers much more so than whites do when given the chance in positions that whites are so-called unsuited to play such as RB and DB in football, SS and CF in baseball and PG in basketball. Despite chance after chance, Donovan McNabb is the only black QB in the past decade who has been above pedestrian for his career, while most have been simply atrocious or just short of terrible, with only a tiny handful otherwise having fleeting moments of basic success. Before him you have to go all the way back to Warren Moon to find a black QB who was anything to write home about, and Randall Cunningham who had a few brief moments of being a real QB in the twilight of his career. That doesn't hold true for positions in which whites have been, pardon the pun, "black balled" from. There have been plenty of good to outstanding white players in these positions over the years, and even in the modern era when the obvious order of the day is almost complete racial disqualification for whites in certain positions, when given the chance, our guys excel. They are then usually jerked around so that can't get entrenched and it appears to the untrained eye that the stereotypes against white players are true.Edited by: Bear Backer

whiteathlete33 said:

I see that idiot Brett Stephen is nothing more than a DWF.

Click to expand...

It's an interesting article that only scratches at the surface of the underlying racism involved in recruiting and drafting. The comments after are very telling about the clouded stupor that DWF's are in. This Stephens guy is in a dreamworld where color is overlooked, and in this 13% black country, the "supermen" rule.

It baffles me how anybody can watch an NFL game and not question the racial make-up.
The first time I saw an NFL game I wondered why all WRs, RB,DB, DL are black, but OL,QB,FB,TE,K,P are white. I mean if a white TE at 250 pounds can outrun a black LB at 250 lbs, then a white WR at 200 lbs can outrun a black DB at 200 lbs.
The entire league is ridiculous. Show it to a english/irish/french rugby player and he wouldnt understand it one bit.

chris371 said:

It baffles me how anybody can watch an NFL game and not question the racial make-up.
The first time I saw an NFL game I wondered why all WRs, RB,DB, DL are black, but OL,QB,FB,TE,K,P are white. I mean if a white TE at 250 pounds can outrun a black LB at 250 lbs, then a white WR at 200 lbs can outrun a black DB at 200 lbs.
The entire league is ridiculous. Show it to a english/irish/french rugby player and he wouldnt understand it one bit.

Click to expand...

That's exactly right. If blacks are supposedly so much faster than just about all Whites and pure straight line speed issomuch moreimportant than any other trait of athleticism when it comes to playing football, then by logical extension every single position should be as black as RB and CB except for the throwing position of QB and of course the kickers.

Let's look at the stats for Toby Gerhart. They are quite impressive for a slow white boy lol.

It looks like the Texans are considering a runningback at the 20 spot. The article only focuses on Spiller and Matthews, but Toby has to be considered because theTexans already have a scat back in Slaton.So really it would be between Toby and Matthews.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6916451.htmlEdited by: celticdb15

What are his pro day numbers anyone know please post asap.

Apparently he decided to stand on his combine numbers which surprises me, but leads me to believe he got positive feedback from NFL personnel on his numbers and where those numbers put him in the draft.

I don't think Toby ran again on pro day.
Edited by: JReb1

For those of you who haven't seen Toby in his workout at the NFL Combine. Your in luck. Enjoy gentlemen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifPmTGeHyfcEdited by: white lightning

Does anyone think that if Toby ran at Pro Day and put up a faster 40 time it would help his draft stock even more? I wish he did because he would have a 4.4 time. He might not be the fastest back in the draft but he has very good speed for the position. In a fair league he would be a top 20 pick but it looks like he'll go in the second round.
Edited by: whiteathlete33

He has shown what he can do running the ball in college football, on a mediocre team, to great effect. He has showcased his speed, strength, agility and jumping and catching abilities at the laboratory that is the combine. In my opinion there is nothing he can do in terms of performance at the pro day to raise his draft stock. The only useful thing he can do now, that would have any beneficial effect would be to seach his family tree and try to find some evidence of an African American ancestor. Even if he were only one sixteenth black he could claim to be mixed race, and rid himself of this curse of being a white college running back. GM's and coaches would be releived of the burden of losing sleep each night wondering about what to convert him into in the NFL should they draft him - tight end, linebacker, fullback, long snapper? They would look at him with new eyes, the mist would evaporate, and they would finally see what had been staring them in the face for two years.

Gerhart is one of the few whites who have managed to slip through the cracks. Some colleges wanted him to play fullback in college yet he managed to avoid that situation. He put up outstanding numbers in a tough conference and there is only one more crack he needs to slip through and that is the NFL's filter system.

I got in the 11th comment at youtube.

Seems like the same old story, which I am getting tired of. I wish we could fast forward to next season with Toby getting a chance and showing what he can do to put an end to these type of articles.

Who is this guy? Stanford RB Toby Gerhart
Sporting News
Comments (4)More
Login or register to post commentsPrinter-friendly versionWednesday, Mar. 24, 2010 - 9:56 a.m. ET
NFL teams know big-time college production doesn't necessarily mean a player will be a great pro. For this prospect, the weeks left before the draft will be spent answering big questions about his identity.


SN's War Room rates Stanford RB Toby Gerhart as a second-round pick.Playmaking tailback or run-of-the-mill fullback?
It's not a statement about race and ability. It's a statement of fact: There hasn't been a white tailback of significance in the NFL in nearly a quarter-century.

So here is Toby Gerhart, Stanford's bruising running back with more than enough speed and athleticismâ€"and three years of impressive college game tapeâ€"to change the way we think of the position.

"I'm not trying to be the poster child for the white running back," Gerhart says. "But the reality is, you just don't see it."

The last time a white tailback was taken in the first round of the NFL draft was in 1974, when Penn State Heisman Trophy winner John Cappelletti was selected by the Los Angeles Rams. The last white player to rush for 1,000 yards was Craig James with the New England Patriots in 1985.

And the last time NFL scouts debated a 6-foot-3, 235-pound white tailback with 4.42 speed in the 40? How about never?

"He's not a plugger," says UCLA coach Rick Neuheisel, an assistant with the Baltimore Ravens before returning to his alma mater two years ago. "He'll change a lot of minds once he gets the ball in his hands."

At this point, Gerhart is used to the doubters. When he broke the California high school career rushing record, he'd hear skepticism from other players and fans. When he was listed as a fullback by most recruiting services, when the heavyweights in the Pac-10 passed on him , when those same teams first felt Gerhart coming through the hole, he heard the same things.

"I'd hear, 'You're not bad for a white guy,'" Gerhart says. "That doesn't bother me, but there's more to me than just that."

You want more? Here's a guy who rushed for a school-record 1,871 yards and nation-leading 28 touchdowns last year while taking a 21-hour course load in management, science and engineering. He took two of his finalsâ€"he has his degreeâ€"in Orlando while participating in a college football awards banquet.

In the last two seasons, he rushed for more than 3,000 yards despite the fact everyone in the stadium knew where the offense was going.

He also started the last three years in center field for the Stanford baseball teamâ€"note to NFL scouts: You have to be able to run to play center fieldâ€"and led the Cardinal to the 2008 College World Series. He would've been a high pick in the MLB amateur draft had he decided to continue playing baseball.

"He's wired with gifts from God," Stanford coach Jim Harbaugh says. "It would be foolish for anyone to think he can't play that position."

â€"Matt Hayes

Related Links
Who is this guy? ND WR Golden Tate
War Room: Toby Gerhart scouting report
Mock draft: Gerhart No. 51 overall
.If John Riggins can do it ...
It's difficult to find a comparison for Toby Gerhart because, after all, it has been 25 years since a white tailback starred in the NFL. But Gerhart most resembles a modern-day John Rigginsâ€"he's a 230-pounder with deceptive speed, the power to plow over defenders and the bulk to absorb the punishment.

Former Redskins offensive lineman Mark May says: "Everyone makes the comparison to John Riggins. But why? Because he's a big back and runs downhill and he's Caucasian? Why not Gerald Riggs or George Rogers or Jerome Bettis? (But) John had a lot of natural speed in addition to his physical ability, much like what Toby has. If this were 1982, Toby would be a first-round pick because everyone in the NFL copies success. If Toby gets with the right team who wants to run some one-back (schemes), he'll have a very good career in the NFL."

â€"Matt Hayes

Scouting report
An NFL scout breaks down Gerhart's game.

What's to like: He's a physical, powerful running back who runs very well between the tackles. He gets to the hole quickly. He's ready to come into the league and play early. He has better athleticism than a lot of people give him credit for. He can catch the ball out of the backfield, and he's very good in pass protection.

What scares me: He's kind of a one-speed runner. The other thing I don't know about him is his genuine interest in football. Is he one of those guys who says, "You know, I was drafted in the second round; I can go make more money in baseball"?

Final verdict: Early second round.

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2010-03-24/who-guy-stanford-rb-toby-gerhart

Deceptive speed huh? That's a term used for white skill position players. Whoever the idiot is that wrote this thinks that there haven't been any white running backs because they aren't skilled enough. Well he can believe the myth.

At least they credit him with 4.42 speed, haha

DraftDaddy provided a link to a guy who finally compared Gerhart to someone other than John Riggins. i'll paste it below.

TOBY GERHART/RB/STANFORD/6'0/230 LARRY JOHNSON/REDSKINS

GERHARTs stock is rising these days thanks to his COMBINE work. His straight-line speed does not make him the next AP, but it could translate into a LARRY JOHNSON-style power runner, with long run speed and without the attitude and personal baggage of an LJ. For an NFL team that still utilizes a power running scheme GERHART could be a great bargain early in Round 2. He will surpass JOHNSON on the receiving side of things. He wasn't called upon to catch a lot of balls at STANFORD, but he shows comfort in space and ran down a lot of balls playing OF for the CARDINAL baseball team. I see GERHART as the good guy-alter ego of JOHNSON for some NFL team.

Click to expand...

Larry Johnson is a good comparison....

Been meaning to post the TSN article about Gerhart...I took from this more from ex-NFLer Mark May.....
"Everyone makes the comparison to John Riggins. But why? Because he's a big back and runs downhill and he's Caucasian? Why not Gerald Riggs or George Rogers or Jerome Bettis? (But) John had a lot of natural speed in addition to his physical ability, much like what Toby has. If this were 1982, Toby would be a first-round pick because everyone in the NFL copies success. If Toby gets with the right team who wants to run some one-back (schemes), he'll have a very good career in the NFL."


The article also mentions CJ Spiller "Speedy jack-of-all trades OR too-brittle back??

Edited by: TwentyTwo

This guy compared Toby's running style to Larry Johnson! Bout time people wake up!
http://www.pigskinpaul.com/Pigskin_Pauls_Place/Home/Entries/2010/3/20_NFL_Draft_Talk.html

<H2 itxt="1">Who is this guy? Stanford RB Toby Gerhart</H2>
<DIV ='itxt="1"'>
<DIV ="author" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-s" itxt="1">
<DIV ="updated" itxt="1">Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2010 - 9:56 a.m. ET
<DIV ='itxt="1"'>
<I itxt="1">NFL teams know big-time college production doesn't necessarily mean a player will be a great pro. For this prospect, the weeks left before the draft will be spent answering big questions about his identity.[/I]
<H4 itxt="1">
<DIV ="_marker_right" itxt="1">
<DIV style="WIDTH: 231px" ="article___border article___border_right" itxt="1">
<DIV ="article__" itxt="1">
<DIV ="article__caption" itxt="1">SN's War Room rates Stanford RB Toby Gerhart as a second-round pick.Playmaking tailback or run-of-the-mill fullback?</H4>
It's not a statement about race and ability. It's a statement of fact: There hasn't been a white tailback of significance in the NFL in nearly a quarter-century.
So here is Toby Gerhart, Stanford's bruising running back with more than enough speed and athleticismâ€"and three years of impressive college game tapeâ€"to change the way we think of the position.
"I'm not trying to be the poster child for the white running back," Gerhart says. "But the reality is, you just don't see it."
The last time a white tailback was taken in the first round of the NFL draft was in 1974, when Penn State Heisman Trophy winner John Cappelletti was selected by the Los Angeles Rams. The last white player to rush for 1,000 yards was Craig James with the New England Patriots in 1985.
And the last time NFL scouts debated a 6-foot-3, 235-pound white tailback with 4.42 speed in the 40? How about never?
"He's not a plugger," says UCLA coach Rick Neuheisel, an assistant with the Baltimore Ravens before returning to his alma mater two years ago. "He'll change a lot of minds once he gets the ball in his hands."
At this point, Gerhart is used to the doubters. When he broke the California high school career rushing record, he'd hear skepticism from other players and fans. When he was listed as a fullback by most recruiting services, when the heavyweights in the Pac-10 passed on him , when those same teams first felt Gerhart coming through the hole, he heard the same things.
"I'd hear, 'You're not bad for a white guy,'" Gerhart says. "That doesn't bother me, but there's more to me than just that."
You want more? Here's a guy who rushed for a school-record 1,871 yards and nation-leading 28 touchdowns last year while taking a 21-hour course load in management, science and engineering. He took two of his finalsâ€"he has his degreeâ€"in Orlando while participating in a college football awards banquet.
In the last two seasons, he rushed for more than 3,000 yards despite the fact everyone in the stadium knew where the offense was going.
He also started the last three years in center field for the Stanford baseball teamâ€"note to NFL scouts: You have to be able to run to play center fieldâ€"and led the Cardinal to the 2008 College World Series. He would've been a high pick in the MLB amateur draft had he decided to continue playing baseball.
"He's wired with gifts from God," Stanford coach Jim Harbaugh says. "It would be foolish for anyone to think he can't play that position."
<I itxt="1">â€"Matt Hayes[/I]
<H4 itxt="1">
<DIV ="related_s_marker_left" itxt="1">
<DIV ="related-s-" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block related-s-s-" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-vl" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-vr" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-ht" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-lt" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-rt" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-hb" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-lb" itxt="1">
<DIV ="node-block-rb clear-block" itxt="1">
<H3 ="node-block-title" itxt="1">Related Links</H3>
<DIV ="node-block-" itxt="1">
<UL ="node-related-s" itxt="1">
<LI ="0 first" itxt="1">Who is this guy? ND WR Golden Tate
<LI ="1" itxt="1">War Room: Toby Gerhart scouting report
<LI ="2 last" itxt="1">Mock draft: Gerhart No. 51 overall</LI>[/list]If John Riggins can do it ...</H4>
It's difficult to find a comparison for Toby Gerhart because, after all, it has been 25 years since a white tailback starred in the NFL. But Gerhart most resembles a modern-day John Rigginsâ€"he's a 230-pounder with deceptive speed, the power to plow over defenders and the bulk to absorb the punishment.
Former Redskins offensive lineman Mark May says: "Everyone makes the comparison to John Riggins. But why? Because he's a big back and runs downhill and he's Caucasian? Why not Gerald Riggs or George Rogers or Jerome Bettis? (But) John had a lot of natural speed in addition to his physical ability, much like what Toby has. If this were 1982, Toby would be a first-round pick because everyone in the NFL copies success. If Toby gets with the right team who wants to run some one-back (schemes), he'll have a very good career in the NFL."
<I itxt="1">â€"Matt Hayes[/I]
<H4 itxt="1">Scouting report</H4>
<I itxt="1">An NFL scout breaks down Gerhart's game.[/I]
<B itxt="1">What's to like: [/B]He's a physical, powerful running back who runs very well between the tackles. He gets to the hole quickly. He's ready to come into the league and play early. He has better athleticism than a lot of people give him credit for. He can catch the ball out of the backfield, and he's very good in pass protection.
<B itxt="1">What scares me: [/B]He's kind of a one-speed runner. The other thing I don't know about him is his genuine interest in football. Is he one of those guys who says, "You know, I was drafted in the second round; I can go make more money in baseball"?
<B itxt="1">Final verdict:[/B] Early second round.
<I itxt="1">â€"As told to Dennis Dillon[/I]Edited by: celticdb15

Check out this Ross Tucker article on Gerhardt, rolle and preconcieved bias. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ross_tucker/03/22/stereotypes/index.html

here's fixed link to the article that Animalmuther mentioned, in case it didn't work for you guys (it didn't for me).


Ross Tucker&gt; INSIDE THE NFL

Gerhart, Rolle will try to overcome stereotypes to make it in the NFL Story Highlights

Toby Gerhart is trying to be one of the few white RBs to make it in NFL
Some might downgrade Myron Rolle for having non-football interests
Author overcame the stereotype of being an Ivy Leaguer playing in NFL

Stanford's Toby Gerhart finished second in Heisman Trophy voting last season.
AP

Stereotypes are prevalent in our society, and the NFL is no different. I know. I was one of the few Ivy League graduates trying to make a living as a professional football player when I signed with the Washington Redskins in 2001 as an undrafted rookie free agent. For the next seven years, not a single day went by in which I didn't feel as if I had to overcome the stereotypes that players, coaches and management had about me as a Princeton guy playing in the NFL.

Some people assumed I grew up in a life of privilege. I didn't. Others didn't think football was as important to me as it was to the others. They were right -- it was more important to me. Maybe some of it was just my imagination or the sizable chip I had on my shoulder, but I carried that stereotype with me and tried to combat it, whether that meant getting in a fight every time I went to a new team or spending more time than anyone else breaking down tape.

This year's draft class includes two well-known prospects who have already been typecast. On one coast, we have the stud from Stanford trying to overcome preconceived notions regarding white running backs in the NFL. On the other coast is the Rhodes Scholar who may be too smart or diverse for NFL standards. Toby Gerhart and Myron Rolle are two of the most intriguing stories in a draft class loaded with them. As these guys will soon find out, their NFL journey is going to be even more difficult than the typical rookie's.

The White Running Back
Gerhart's college numbers and game film show he is an elite runner. The Heisman Trophy finalist was one of the best players in college football last season. At the NFL Scouting Combine, he answered questions about his athleticism by running a 4.53 40-yard dash and recording a 38-inch vertical jump, while weighing 231 pounds. He is projected as a late second-round pick.

Still, questions about his ability to be a starting tailback in the NFL remain.

Why? There aren't any true white feature backs in the NFL and there haven't been any in a long time. Heck, it's an absolute rarity for a white running back to become a starter at the NCAA Division I FBS level.

I don't believe the people who doubt Gerhart can make it in the NFL are racist or prejudiced in any way. In talking with a number of coaches and scouts at many levels of football, I found the prevailing wisdom to be that it is more of a subconscious bias based upon simply not seeing it happen in a long time. The same would hold true for a white player at cornerback in the NFL, where there hasn't been a consistent starter since Jason Sehorn in the 1990's. It is only natural for people to be skeptical that Gerhart will bust a stereotype that has been building momentum for years.

But can we please think outside the box when trying to compare him to other players? The John Riggins and Mike Alstott comparisons grow a little tiresome.

"I was talking with [longtime NFL safety] John Lynch, and joking around that he was in the same situation as a safety," Gerhart said. "We're often only compared to other quote-unquote white guys that play our position. ... I'm color blind. I'm a running back. I'd compare myself to the running styles of Eddie George and Corey Dillon."

Now all Gerhart needs to do is go out and prove it for the next five or six years so that the next great white running back won't have to answer all of the same questions and face such an uphill battle. Although if Gerhart does succeed, the next "great white hope" probably will be endlessly compared to Gerhart.

The Rhodes Scholar

Myron Rolle did not play football in 2009, instead studying for a year at Oxford.
Icon SMI
At least Gerhart is a player whose on-field production and passion for the game speak for themselves and have never been questioned. Former Florida State safety Myron Rolle should be so lucky.

Rolle, you may remember, passed up his senior season of athletic eligibility at Florida State -- not to enter the draft, but to accept the prestigious Rhodes Scholarship and study for a year at Oxford. It wasn't exactly the typical career path for an NFL hopeful who was once the top-ranked high school player in the country. But Rolle, a projected sixth-round prospect, is anything but typical. He's probably the only NFL prospect who wants to be a neurosurgeon when his playing days are over.

The irony, of course, is that his outward admission of said goals may contribute to him being able to pursue those opportunities a lot sooner than he would like. Unlike Gerhart, Rolle did not run particularly well at the combine and he is not coming off a particularly productive college career.

He also carries two big strikes in the minds of some NFL people, though no one would ever admit it publicly: He is smarter than most of the coaches and he has other serious interests outside of football. That may seem laughable, but neither one of those is a particularly valued quality in the NFL.

Coaches are an insecure. They don't want players who could potentially question them or their philosophies, even if said players would never actually do that out of respect for the coach-player relationship.

They also are inherently skeptical of somebody like Rolle, who has other interests or opportunities outside of football -- as if that reality somehow means the player is less committed to football.

I was a little hesitant to have offseason internships during my career because I didn't want to perpetuate the whole Princeton stereotype. Ultimately, though, I decided I couldn't sit around every afternoon in the offseason playing video games like a lot of the other guys, especially when I knew football was just a temp job. And as I once told Bills general manager Tom Donahoe, putting on a suit and tie and going into the Merrill Lynch office in downtown Buffalo was unbelievable motivation for me to play football for as long as I possibly could. Besides, I was still spending more extra time at the facility than anyone else, so I don't think they really cared.

Ultimately, I think I was able to overcome the stereotype people had of me. Hopefully Rolle and Gerhart can do the same.

Thanks BR. For some reason I can't hyperlink to anything like I used to.

Have cold fusion errors as well.

One of the more telling observations which I read to mean as coaches/scouts/owners are socially engineered to think that blacks are superior athletes..."I found the prevailing wisdom to be that it is more of a subconscious bias based upon simply not seeing it happen in a long time. The same would hold true for a white player at cornerback in the NFL, where there hasn't been a consistent starter since Jason Sehorn in the 1990's. It is only natural for people to be skeptical that Gerhart will bust a stereotype that has been building momentum for years."

I think Tucker sees it but has to remain PC as hell to retain his job at SI.

Isn't the "subconscious bias" the reason the NFL has the Rooney rule? If there is one (subconscious bias) than it needs to be addressed because as good as Toby is, there have been many White RB's just as good if not better that still haven't gotten a chance and it's beyond unfair to White athletes.

IMO, Luke Staley, maybe even Travis Jervey were better RB's, but Luke was a White RB that could never be converted into a FB so he was doomed from the start of his NFL career as was Jervey. Hester could be just as good as Gerhart (both are better than the average starting RB currently starting in the NFL) IMO if he's ever given a fair opportunity. Leonard and Woodhead could also succeed be better than average if given a fair chance.
Edited by: JReb1