Henderson and Rice make the Hall!

white is right

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Both Henderson and Rice made the Hall of Fame and Dawson and Blyleven fell short. Here is the AP story.....Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to Hall of Fame

By RONALD BLUM - 1 hour ago

NEW YORK (AP) â€â€￾ Rickey Henderson sped his way into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot Monday, and Jim Rice made it in on his 15th and final try. Henderson, baseball's career leader in runs scored and stolen bases, received 94.8 percent of the vote from the Baseball Writers' Association of America, well above the 75 percent needed.

Rice, among baseball's most feared hitters in the late 1970s and early 1980s, got 76.4 percent of the vote after falling just shy with 72.2 percent last year.

"The only thing I can say is I'm glad it's over with," Rice said. "I'm in there and they can't take it away."

The undisputed standard for leadoff hitters, Henderson became the 44th player elected in his first year of eligibility. Rice was only the third elected by the BBWAA in his final year, joining Red Ruffing (1967) and Ralph Kiner (1975).

The pair will be inducted into the Hall during ceremonies on July 26 in Cooperstown, N.Y. They will be joined by former Yankees and Indians second baseman Joe Gordon, elected posthumously last month by the Veterans Committee.

"I feel great about it. It's been a long time coming," said Henderson, who wanted to be a football star before excelling in pro baseball. "I was nervous, waiting."

Henderson spoke on a conference call before boarding a flight to New York. He was rushing right along, even on this day.

Only fitting.

Next up, his highly anticipated induction speech. Henderson has always had a unique way with words.

"It's really just an honor to me. I'm really just spaced out," he said. "I haven't really thought about what I'm going to say."

Rice knows exactly how he'll approach his speech.

"Believe me, it's going to be short and quick. I don't think you need to go there and talk for 15 or 20 minutes when you can get right to the point," he said. "I'm going to leave all the stories to Rickey."

Henderson was picked on 511 of 539 ballots and Rice was selected on 412, just above the 405 needed.

Rice received only 29.8 percent of the vote in 1995, when he appeared on the ballot for the first time. He initially topped 50 percent in 2000 and reached 64.8 percent in 2006 â€â€￾ the highest percentage for a player who wasn't elected in a later year was 63.4 by Gil Hodges in 1983, his final time on the ballot.

Some thought Rice's prickly personality and curt relationship with reporters during his playing career helped keep him out of the Hall all these years.

"I don't think I was difficult to deal with for writers. I think the writers were difficult to me," he said. "I wasn't going to badmouth my teammates. When you start talking about my teammates or what goes on outside baseball, I couldn't do that.

"I don't know why it took me so long. I don't even want to think about it," he added. "I'm just happy I'm in and that's what I'm going to cherish."

What did he learn all these years?

"Be patient and wait to the last out," Rice said. "I guess everything was just timing, because my numbers have not changed over the last 14 years."

Andre Dawson fell 44 votes short with 67 percent. He was followed by Bert Blyleven (62.7 percent), Lee Smith (44.5), Jack Morris (44.0), Tommy John (31.7) and Tim Raines (22.6). John appeared on the ballot for the final time.

Mark McGwire, stigmatized by accusations he used performance-enhancing drugs, received 118 votes (21.9 percent) in his third year of eligibility, down from the 128 votes he got in each of his first two tries.

Henderson, who played with McGwire in Oakland, said the slugger was one of the best people he's ever been around.

"He played the game the right way to me," Henderson said. "I feel he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame."

Henderson, the 1990 AL MVP, was a 10-time All-Star who swiped 1,406 bases, one shy of 50 percent more than Lou Brock, who is in second place with 938. Henderson batted .279 with 297 homers, 1,115 RBIs, 2,190 walks and 2,295 runs. He owns the modern-day season record with 130 steals in 1982, and the career mark with 81 leadoff homers. He played 25 seasons for Oakland, the Yankees, Toronto, San Diego, Anaheim, the Mets, Seattle, Boston and the Dodgers.

Henderson was with his family when he got the call Monday and pointed out that they have been with him through "all the glory and the headaches."

"They enjoyed it probably as much as I enjoyed it, probably even more," he said.

Rice, the 1978 AL MVP, was an eight-time All-Star who hit 382 home runs in 16 seasons with the Boston Red Sox from 1974-89. He had a .298 career batting average and 1,451 RBIs, and from 1977-79 averaged .320 with 41 homers and 128 RBIs.

He becomes the fourth Hall of Famer to have spent his entire career with the Red Sox, joining fellow left fielders Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski, along with second baseman Bobby Doerr.

"That's I think one of the biggest accomplishments," Rice said.

AP Baseball Writer Mike Fitzpatrick contributed to this report.
 

bigunreal

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While it's not likely that Major League Baseball will ever top the NFL's horrendous selection of Charlie Sanders to its Hall of Fame recently, voting Jim Rice in comes pretty close.

The Hall of Fame long ago lost any remaining luster, when it started enshrining every good player in modern times, and compounded their error with some good but never great players from the 40s-50s (Joe Gordon and Bobby Doerr being the latest examples in that category). It is debatable whether Rice is now the least deserving player in the HOF; Orlando Cepeda probably will always hold that honor. However, he is a terrible selection. While his .298 lifetime batting average is par for the course for more modern day outfield selections, his 382 lifetime homers are not. He opens the door for similar good but never great outfielders like Andre Dawson, but probably not Dale Murphy, who has something "different" about him.

It's also hard to stomach the selection of first class jerk Rickey Henderson, although his lifetime totals (other than the pedestrian lifetime average of .279) are hard to deny. That guy was unfriendly and arrogant, even by the standards of modern day athletes. The jock sniffers are already declaring him one of the very best outfielders of all time. Ugh.

And Pete Rose remains outside the Hall of Fame, becoming more pathetic by the day. Incredible; Cepeda and now Rice enshrined in the HOF, while the all-time leader in base hits is not. Lesser lights from those same Big Red Machine teams like Joe Morgan and Tony Perez (at least I think they voted him in- I lose track of all these outrageously bad selections) in, but the biggest star on that team forever banned. Finally, no Mark McGwire, who got even less votes than last time. He is likely to join Rose in the permanent "shunned" category, along wih Roger Clemens. Hmm. What is it that they all have in common?
 
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A slight surprise to me that Jim Rice was voted in. In the last several years of his career, he was downgraded because of the many DP's he hit into along with his general surliness.
 

Don Wassall

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If Rice belongs then so does Dale Murphy.


Rice was a power hitter who could hit for average, but little else. He was a poor fielder and was a slow base runner. Rice ended up with 382 home runs, including one season of more than 40and four of more than 30. Murphy finished with 398 home runs, including one 40+ season and six of more than 30. Murphy was a five tool player who won two NL MVP awards. Rice was a limited player who won one AL MVP.


But Murphy received but 11 percent of the vote. He'll never get in. Instead, the next player to be "force-fed" into Cooperstown will be Andre Dawson.


I'll at least look forward to Rickey Henderson's induction speech this summer. There should be an over/under on how many times he refers to himself in the third person during it.
 

white is right

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bigunreal said:
While it's not likely that Major League Baseball will ever top the NFL's horrendous selection of Charlie Sanders to its Hall of Fame recently, voting Jim Rice in comes pretty close.

The Hall of Fame long ago lost any remaining luster, when it started enshrining every good player in modern times, and compounded their error with some good but never great players from the 40s-50s (Joe Gordon and Bobby Doerr being the latest examples in that category). It is debatable whether Rice is now the least deserving player in the HOF; Orlando Cepeda probably will always hold that honor. However, he is a terrible selection. While his .298 lifetime batting average is par for the course for more modern day outfield selections, his 382 lifetime homers are not. He opens the door for similar good but never great outfielders like Andre Dawson, but probably not Dale Murphy, who has something "different" about him.

It's also hard to stomach the selection of first class jerk Rickey Henderson, although his lifetime totals (other than the pedestrian lifetime average of .279) are hard to deny. That guy was unfriendly and arrogant, even by the standards of modern day athletes. The jock sniffers are already declaring him one of the very best outfielders of all time. Ugh.

And Pete Rose remains outside the Hall of Fame, becoming more pathetic by the day. Incredible; Cepeda and now Rice enshrined in the HOF, while the all-time leader in base hits is not. Lesser lights from those same Big Red Machine teams like Joe Morgan and Tony Perez (at least I think they voted him in- I lose track of all these outrageously bad selections) in, but the biggest star on that team forever banned. Finally, no Mark McGwire, who got even less votes than last time. He is likely to join Rose in the permanent "shunned" category, along wih Roger Clemens. Hmm. What is it that they all have in common?
The thing that typified Henderson in my mind was his whining one year about money and his teammates gave him a jar full of singles and fins and the greedy idiot mugged for photos with the jar and kept it.
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I guess you can be as low as a WWE heel but god forbid if you gamble or shoot roids.....
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Edited by: white is right
 

white is right

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sport historian said:
A slight surprise to me that Jim Rice was voted in. In the last several years of his career, he was downgraded because of the many DP's he hit into along with his general surliness.
I wasn't that surprised it seems that if you score about 65 percent+ one year. The writers that are on the fence about your selection suddenly wake up and look at your stats. Or maybe they magically change..
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The next to turn into hall of famers will be Dawson and Blyleven. I agree about Murphy who was a five tool guy and aged rapidly in his early 30's like Rice did.Edited by: white is right
 

jaxvid

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I don't have a problem with the selections. I don't think the Hall of Fame should be only for a select few. But Don's right, if Rice is in so should Dale Murphy be. McGuire has no business being left out. It will be interesting to see what happens when Bonds is eligible. Will he recieve the steroid protest? Don't bet on it. Only white men pay the price for wrong doing in commie Amerika.
 
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Don Wassall said:
If Rice belongs then so does Dale Murphy. 


Rice was a power hitter who could hit for average, but little else.  He was a poor fielder and was a slow base runner.  Rice ended up with 382 home runs, including one season of more than 40 and four of more than 30.  Murphy finished with 398 home runs, including one 40+ season and six of more than 30.  Murphy was a five tool player who won two NL MVP awards.  Rice was a limited player who won one AL MVP. 


But Murphy received but 11 percent of the vote.  He'll never get in.  Instead, the next player to be "force-fed" into Cooperstown will be Andre Dawson.


I'll at least look forward to Rickey Henderson's induction speech this summer.  There should be an over/under on how many times he refers to himself in the third person during it.

This was the last time Rice could be voted in directly by the writers. They seemed to realize this and made sure he was elected to the HOF. Andre Dawson will certainly be voted in during the standard period of eligibility. Dale Murphy's batting average went down in the latter part of his career. This will keep him out, or will be the excuse.
 

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Dale Murphy belongs in the Hall of Fame! So does Roger Maris. If Jim Rice goes into the Hall of Fame then Steve Garvey should go also. Mickey Vernon should also be in by now.
 

Gary

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If Jim Rice can get into the baseball Hall of Fame then lets consider these very good ball players. Gil Hodges, Ted Kluszewski, Jim Kaat, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Ron Santo, Mickey Lolich, Mickey Vernon, Jackie Jensen and Thurman Munson.
 

bigunreal

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As the previous post by Gary demonstrates, the election of totally unworthy players like Rice to the Hall of Fame opens the door for countless others who are no more unworthy.

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be reserved for the greatest players in Major League history. Instead, it has opened its doors to numerous players that played long enough to accumulate huge career stats, without ever producing a single great season. Luis Aparicio and Eddie Murray are primary examples of this. Henderson falls into the top end of this category. While I won't quibble too much with his selection, since he ended up having the most runs scored and most walks in Major League history, I don't for a second think he was a great player. In fact, I don't think he had a single great season. A .279 lifetime average for a leadoff hitter is barely above mediocre. Rice falls into the category of not deserving in any way, shape or form. He didn't post impressive career numbers, and never was a great player in any given season. Orlando Cepeda and Tony Perez are primary examples of this kind of completely undeserving player.

There in no way that Rice, Cepeda, Murray, Perez, etc. are in the same class as Ruth, Cobb, Walter Johnson or Honus Wagner. Maybe they ought to come up with a "Super" wing of the Hall of Fame for those who were truly the greatest players.
 

jaxvid

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Gary said:
If Jim Rice can get into the baseball Hall of Fame then lets consider these very good ball players. Gil Hodges, Ted Kluszewski, Jim Kaat, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Ron Santo, Mickey Lolich, Mickey Vernon, Jackie Jensen and Thurman Munson.

Good point! Certainly every one on the list except maybe Jensen and Boyer IMHO deserves it as much as Rice.
 

Bart

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jaxvid said:
Gary said:
If Jim Rice can get into the baseball Hall of Fame then lets consider these very good ball players. Gil Hodges, Ted Kluszewski, Jim Kaat, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Ron Santo, Mickey Lolich, Mickey Vernon, Jackie Jensen and Thurman Munson.

Good point! Certainly every one on the list except maybe Jensen and Boyer IMHO deserves it as much as Rice.


One huge problem.Black ball players on thefringewill have the media with it's legions of reporters, writers, talk show hosts, and commentators beating the drums for their induction, white guys have only a few vocal fans in their corner, and most of them are posters at Caste Football.
 

LabMan

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Last week on espn radio the caste fools mike and mike belittled and made fun of Bert Blyleven because he was critical of some recent hall of fame inductees,they even produced a jingle trying to make him out as a whiner,as we all know,they would never do this to a non-white,the old double standard in play again!
 

white is right

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Gary said:
If Jim Rice can get into the baseball Hall of Fame then lets consider these very good ball players. Gil Hodges, Ted Kluszewski, Jim Kaat, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Ron Santo, Mickey Lolich, Mickey Vernon, Jackie Jensen and Thurman Munson.
The biggest omissions from the Hall from players that are no longer on the ballot are Hodges(because you could argue his managing the"Miracle Mets" to a world title further cements his borderline case). Munson has to be considered because he died in the prime of his career. If Puckett is in why not Munson? Also I think Colavito has weaker case and I know he is hated but Dick Allen should be a hall of famer.
 

Freedom

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What a joke! Who cares about the HOF anymore now? Once mediocre talent goes in, baseball fans will come out. Ricky Henderson was one of the most overrated players that I remember. Gary mentioned Ken Boyer. His brother Clete has a restaurant in Cooperstown.

Notice that Jim Rice is in the HOF, but his counterpart, Dwight Evans is not. This, despite the fact that they had comparable offensive numbers and Evans was a much better fielder.
 
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Freedom said:
What a joke! Who cares about the HOF anymore now? Once mediocre talent goes in, baseball fans will come out. Ricky Henderson was one of the most overrated players that I remember. Gary mentioned Ken Boyer. His brother Clete has a restaurant in Cooperstown.

Notice that Jim Rice is in the HOF, but his counterpart, Dwight Evans is not. This, despite the fact that they had comparable offensive numbers and Evans was a much better fielder.

I read a piece by Bill James many years ago in which James wrote that Dwight Evans would eventually make the HOF. In comparing stats, Rice had bigger seasonal numbers, while Evans ended up with similar career numbers through longevity. His fielding will probably be what helps put him in the Hall if Evans makes it.
 
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Freedom said:
What a joke! Who cares about the HOF anymore now? Once mediocre talent goes in, baseball fans will come out. Ricky Henderson was one of the most overrated players that I remember. Gary mentioned Ken Boyer. His brother Clete has a restaurant in Cooperstown.



Notice that Jim Rice is in the HOF, but his counterpart, Dwight Evans is not. This, despite the fact that they had comparable offensive numbers and Evans was a much better fielder.
That's one of the big reasons why many, including me, rarely follow baseball these days. A bunch of no-names making the HOF. Mark McGwire deserves to be there.
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Edited by: indianwhite
 

Solomon Kane

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This decision is I believe erroneous, but not outrageous.


This is why the HOF will soon be the HOVG: Hall of Very Good Ballplayers. then later it will just be the HOG : Hall of Good ballplayers.


Don't have anything against this guy, who was a very good ballplayer.


but This is what comes of sentimentality and the continual watering down of standards.


(Some whites have benefited from this watering down: rizzuto for instance.)


here though the pro-black agenda also helped him.


I think Evans will get in though. No steroid issues good fielder 400+ homers, played in a big baseball town (this counts for a lot--see rizzuto).


Bert blyleven should be in...great pitchers ahead of great batters.
 

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Solomon Kane said:
I think Evans will get in though. No steroid issues good fielder 400+ homers, played in a big baseball town (this counts for a lot--see rizzuto).


Bert blyleven should be in...great pitchers ahead of great batters.


Evans was dropped from the Hall of Fame ballot in 2000 for failure to get 5% of the vote.


Blyleven has a good shot to get in. I don't think any of the other white players mentioned do though.
 

white is right

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Don Wassall said:
Solomon Kane said:
I think Evans will get in though.  No steroid issues good fielder 400+ homers, played in a big baseball town (this counts for a lot--see rizzuto).


Bert blyleven should be in...great pitchers ahead of great batters.


Evans was dropped from the Hall of Fame ballot in 2000 for failure to get 5% of the vote. 


Blyleven has a good shot to get in.  I don't think any of the other white players mentioned do though.
The dropping of Evans is the worst mistake the voters have ever made. He was a player that peaked late and had maybe the best arm of his era. Dave Parker hangs around the ballot but Dewey doesn't?
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jaxvid

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indianwhite said:
As for Blyleven, it's up to those stupid voters.

Jack Morris should go in before Blyleven, Morris was a much more dominant pitcher. I'm sure any player from that era would rather have faced Blyleven then Morris.
 
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