Really Bad Defenders

frederic38

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the thread from the last season: http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/13689-really-bad-defenders-2011-2012

european clubs currently have a tendency to buy black defenders for their phisicality, they tipically take a big black guy, put him a jersey on, and this is how they produce defenders

this is especially true in france, and a little bit in england (and USA i guess) but these "french" defenders often leave france and play in other leagues
for example there are many of them in england, and now there are some of them in italy (mobido diakité in lazio)

blacks make naturally bad defenders because they are not able to keep focused for 90 minutes, they have bad coordination (hence the goofy look), no intelligence (so no tactical awareness), no charisma (which is important to lead the defence), they are bad headers and they are worthless on set pieces, and they are (believe it or not) not as strong and powerfull as whites

another thing that make them stand out even more than that as bad defenders is that they are bought by european clubs for their physique, and not for their skills - that's one of the reasons why african blacks and european blacks are worse than south american blacks for this matter
it can be argued that some of these black defenders are not even soccer players

here are quotes from article or know coaches from france and other countries:

"The English league is a good league but compared with Spain, Germany and Italy it is not so good,"

"In Spain, Germany and Italy there is a big technical and tactical input in every match. "

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/jesus-says-devils-best-of-mediocre-premier-league-2941341.html

french coaches: http://www.castefootball.us/forums/threads/13607-French-Soccer?p=254729&viewfull=1#post254729

and a great article about the issue: http://www.worldsoccer.com/blogs/si...ill-served-by-europes-obsession-with-physique

a quote from karel brokken:

"Les Ouest-Africains sont généralement beaucoup plus imposants et plus physiques, et c'est ce que les clubs européens veulent. Le travail technique vient après.

west africans are bigger (he compares them to the south-african blacks) and that's what european clubs want
skill is secondary for them

but the central defence is the most important part of a team, it's fundamental

last year chelsea won the campions league with 2 white central defenders and a white goal keeper, while the other team in the final, bayern munchen, had a black central defender (a "european" one)

since the creation of the champions league, only 5 teams won with 1 central defender: marseille in 1993 (they were relegated for corruption the next season), benfica with a brazilian central defender in the 60's, bayern munchen with sammy kuffour helped by 2 white central defenders, barcelona with yaya touré as a central defender because there were a lot of injuried players, and manchester united with rio ferdinand

some very big teams like manchester city and manchester united were kicked out of champions league very early last year, because they had black central defenders, while chelsea and arsenal did better because they had solid white defenders

black defenders are also the number 1 reason why french clubs fail at champions league, while portugal won it in 2004 with a white defence

this is why i will once again monitor the black defenders playing in the european leagues
you can post videos, reports from websites or written by yourself of a bad match by a black defender

as a start, here is the first own goal of the new season, scored by a black defender from french ligue 1:

[video=youtube_share;Yxn5bxDhRes]http://youtu.be/Yxn5bxDhRes[/video]
 
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frederic38

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the best french club, PSG, played their first match with sakho as a central defender
they were down 2-0 at half time because of him, like last year where he was horrible too

on the first goal he made a mess out of the cross that he should have easily cleared, so the ball was deflected by the white brazilian maxwell in his own goal

on the second goal, he was so slow and unintelligent that i couldn't believe it:

white frenchman alliadere tried to get passed his defender (brazilian alex) and alex slighly deflected the ball

here you can see the moment when alliadere started his dribble, alex in front of him, and sakho 6 metres away:
1344857124-sakho-clown-lorient.jpg


sakho was 6 metres away, yet he managed to be totally beaten by alliadere's dribble

here is the goal:

[video=youtube_share;kIH2jQjb7_M]http://youtu.be/kIH2jQjb7_M[/video]

being 6 metres away from the player at the moment when he starts his move, and still being able to look totally out of place is incredible
usually that's the way you defend: one defender goes to the other forward (alliadere here) and another defender stays at a good distance in case the forward gets passed the defender
to get passed the defender you have to push the ball away from you (like alliadere did) so the other defender can easily take the ball after (it's hard to explain in english but i hope you understand)

PSG's main defenders should be lugano, tiago silva and alex
then if the coach is forced to play with sakho (because sakho is "french" and he put colour in the team), he should put sakho as a fullback, like every intelligent coach would do

here is the video that defines mamadou sakho: http://rutube.ru/video/9db7fcdc523cd28c3ed918fd205a8a5d/

[URL="http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://photos.last-video.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mamadou-sakho-torse-nu.jpg&imgrefurl=http://photos.last-video.com/mamadou-sakho-torse-nu.html&h=400&w=300&sz=17&tbnid=PNeRDo47eHValM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=74&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsakho%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=sakho&usg=__u9hxg-JSkba3KKcpuANfLir2D_Y=&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=XhxHUID5BMa40QWr8YHABQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDoQ9QEwBA&dur=272"]

[/URL]
 
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frederic38

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also, a guy from saudi arabia saw that i liked black defender's mistakes so he sent me 2 videos from his country:

[video=youtube_share;_U625SI7uRA]http://youtu.be/_U625SI7uRA[/video]

http://youtu.be/4zEvEaVgxaw

the second one was in an international match involving saudi arabia, but i don't know where the first one comes from, it seems to be a club from saudi arabia vs an african club
 
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frederic38

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manchester city's black defense let southampton score 2 goals in their stadium, at one point they were leading 2-1

Manchester City had two new players on show. One was Jack Rodwell, right, spoiling his debut with the mistake that led to Southampton's second goal after a £15m transfer from Everton. The other was not technically foreign to this parish: Carlos Tevez 2.0, who is promising to be all the good things, and none of the bad, that any £250,000-a-week forward should be.

Mancini had been rather less effusive about the signing of Rodwell. On 67 minutes the midfielder suggested why the Italian has been keen to state that he has much to learn. From an attacking position just outside the Southampton area, Rodwell misplaced a regulation pass to Adam Lallana, who ran the length of the field before setting up Steve Davis's goal.

As he shook his head at this schoolboy error Rodwell could no doubt hear the Mancini soundtrack that has accompanied his arrival, which he repeated again in the programme notes: "We welcome Jack Rodwell to our squad. He is a good player and a versatile player who is just 21 years old. He is an England international with great potential and did well at Everton but he knows that he has improvements to make and hard work in front of him over the next few years."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...-city-carlos-tevez-jack-rodwell?newsfeed=true

black defender from ligue 1 "tie bi" offering the only goal of the match to baysse of brest in injury time: http://youtu.be/SiFkaDIZadE
 

frederic38

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remember sochaux's defender, yaya banana? i made fun f his name when they bought him
here is what he did today:

yaya-poteau-corner.gif


unfortunately he's not used to his full potential, he's a central defender yet he plays as right-back (imagine all the mistakes he would do as a central defender :eyebrows: )

the only goal of this match was scored by a black player, it was an owngoal, i will post it when i will have the video (the ligue 1 videos are posted on the official youtube channel sunday at midnight)
 

frederic38

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hoffenheim, the blackest team in the german league, was thrashed 4-0 by frankfurt with an owngoal by a black defender: Marvin Compper, of french (guadeloupe) descent

 

frederic38

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[video=youtube_share;RJbvPrxBqmg]http://youtu.be/RJbvPrxBqmg[/video]

Foderingham was at fault for the first Preston goal yesterday, hesitating over a clearance which then rebounded off Stuart Beavon into the path of Akpo Sodje to score.

After 22 minutes, with Swindon losing 2-0, Di Canio replaced Foderingham with teenager Leigh Bedwell.
Foderingham, clearly angered at the substitution, made his way straight down the touchline to the dressing room, taking his frustration out on a water bottle en route, before watching the second half of the game from the stands instead of the bench.
Following the game, Di Canio launched into a stinging criticism of the goalkeeper.
He said: "He was one of the worst players I have ever seen. He's another player like the others, why can't we change the goalkeeper? Because the goalkeeper has a different coloured shirt?
"I know my players, I know Wes - he was the worst player against Stoke in the cup in midweek - he was far away the worst player, he made a rubbish performance. But I covered for him because we won 4-3.
"What he did was not only the mistake, which can happen to anyone, but the arrogance when he started moaning to the other players - that was the worst thing for me.
"A player that doesn't recognise his mistakes which were clear from miles away, he started moaning to his team-mates. Out there he behaved as the worst professional, arrogant, ignorant athlete I have ever seen.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/wes-foderingham-says-sorry-to-paolo-di-canio-8102596.html
 

MilanClass

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remember sochaux's defender, yaya banana? i made fun f his name when they bought him
here is what he did today:

yaya-poteau-corner.gif


unfortunately he's not used to his full potential, he's a central defender yet he plays as right-back (imagine all the mistakes he would do as a central defender :eyebrows: )

the only goal of this match was scored by a black player, it was an owngoal, i will post it when i will have the video (the ligue 1 videos are posted on the official youtube channel sunday at midnight)

LOL...he slipped on a banana
 

frederic38

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[h=2]Viv Anderson says Patrice Evra is the weak link for Manchester United[/h]

Injuries to the likes of Jonny Evans (white), Phil Jones (white) and Rio Ferdinand (black) have left the side seriously lacking at the back, and their weaknesses were particularly shown against a rampant Marouane Fallaini as Everton beat the Red Devils in the opening match of the season.

"Obviously, Patrice Evra has to rediscover his form. He didn't have a great season last year and hasn't really been himself this term so far.

"He has to up his game and I think the presence of Alex Buttner (white) from Vitesse Arnhem will eventually bring out the best in Patrice again.

"He knows now if he doesn't rise to the challenge then there is a player who will take his place. Pat is in a vulnerable position at the moment but it is nothing sinister and you just have to react.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/381320/20120906/manchester-united-viv-anderson-evra-defence.htm
 

Arend

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Netherlands - Turkey: Bruno Martins Indi and Jetro Willems

Bruno Martins Indi (starting at 0:15): The cross from Gökhan Töre comes in and everything seems to be fine, as Tim Krul is ready to catch the ball with ease. But then Indi takes his heart and clears the towards the goal (!), creating a great chance for the Turks.
Willems: (starting at 1:00): Willems forgets for a brief moment that there are 11 Turks playing along and loses the ball to Arda.
Watch the whole show here:
[video=youtube;oQ4ixppW86A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ4ixppW86A[/video]
 

frederic38

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thanks for the post
netherlands seems almost as bad as france
i hope they won't qualify for the 2014 world cup, but they have an easy group

**"french" left back patrice evra, from manchester united, had once again an horrible match vs finland
and it's been this way for years, and every time he gets called again
here is roland courbis (former player and coach) destroying him: http://www.eurosport.fr/football/courbis-descend-evra_sto3416779/story.shtml

“Le jour où Evra sera bon défensivement, bon dans les fermetures, bon dans les distances de marquage, bon dans les interceptions, je serai le premier à le signaler. A Manchester, on utilise Evra sur ses qualités offensives mais les buts encaissés par les Mancuniens sont les mêmes depuis des années”

a translation, but it's hard because there are many technical terms:
"when evra will be good defensively, in the "fermetures" (can't translate), at marking his man, at intercepting, i will be the first to tell it
in manchester, they use evra for his offensive abilities but manchester gets goals scored against them the same way these past years (implying that evra is guilty in a great part of the goals scored against manchester united, something that goes the same way as the article i posted above)

eric di meco (former international player, he played left back like evra) once again said after the match vs finland that evra wasn't even good offensively


**also in the draw between bulgaria and italy (a huge upset, i hope that italy won't qualify to the world cup because of this):

ogbonna the black "italian" defender was playing and he was horrible
he got a yellow card
then prandelli did a substitution and the team had to play with 2 fullbacks (maggio and ogbonna)
seconds after this subsitution, bulgaria scored because Micanski got passed ogbonna way too easily
then ogbonna was immediatly substituted by a white fullback (peluso)

the goal was scored at the 67th minute, and ogbonna was substituted at the 68th minute

here is the goal:

[video=youtube_share;8Kan5pt3y18]http://youtu.be/8Kan5pt3y18[/video]

ogbonna looks like he is sleeping
 
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frederic38

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also there was a u-21 match between france and slovakia for the qualifications to the 2013 u-21 euro champs
france lost 2-1 and the defence was horrible (2 black central defenders + 1 black goal keeper)

ali ahamada the black goal keeper was very bad

but the most interesting thing is that raphael varane was horrible too
it's interesting because varane is very highly rated, he was bought by real madrid while he was unknown in france (he played a few ligue 1 matches, then his club was relegated i think, he was not titular)

he's so bad that mourinho decided to welcome a young spanish player from the youth categories of real madrid in the first team
he did this because he's not satisfied with varane i think, and he believes that it's better to have a spanish player as a subsitute than a bad french defender of the same age
http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/noticias/nacho-fernández-ficha-equipo-real-madrid-125609979--sow.html
 

Europe

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Ogbanna wasn't even playing in that clip. Italy doesn't have anybody else besides him?
 

frederic38

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Ogbanna wasn't even playing in that clip. Italy doesn't have anybody else besides him?

i don't really know the italian team but for the left back position i know criscito who plays for zenith saint petersburg (best russian club, so he plays champions league): http://sports.yahoo.com/news/criscito-hopes-resume-international-career-085952739--sow.html

and also antonini from ac milan, but i don't know if he's injuried or not, or if he plays regularly this season in ac milan
 

John

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Manchester City's defensive midfielder Jack Rodwell - another overrated, overpriced English half-caste. Here, he initiates Southampton's counter-attack. Beautifully played by Southampton and a great goal.

€19 million for Rodwell, €28 millon for Lescott - what a joke.

[video=youtube;Ali6WJ3k-Tk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ali6WJ3k-Tk&feature=plcp[/video]
 
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frederic38

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i said it since last year, manchester city's defenders are way over-rated
in the premier league they regularly gift goals, and in champions league they get humiliated
yesterday against real madrid kompany was exposed
he looked very slow compared with higuain, cristiano ronaldo and the others

he got the worst rating of the match here:
Vincent Kompany
Started badly when turned by Ronaldo inside the opening 10 minutes, the City captain found life much tougher than in the Premier League. Ducked when Ronaldo shot for the winner, leaving Hart exposed. 5

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-City-2-player-ratings-from-the-Bernabeu.html

like mentionned here, he is responsible on cristiano ronaldo's last minute goal, he ducked while he should have blocked the shot, letting joe hart no time to react

media_l_5172569.jpg
media_l_5172594.jpg


this clown is very often rated as one of the best central defenders in the world, yet he didn't play any big competitions with his national team (belgium) because each time the fail to qualify, and manchester city's defence gets humiliated in champions league

and yet mancini tried to avoid this humiliation because he put a white central defender next to kompany while joleon lescott (black) usually starts for manchester city
hey mancini, next time , try with 2 white central defenders

a comment that summarize what i would like to say if i had enough vocabulary:

Vincent Kompany had a laughable performance, got ripped apart by Ronaldo on more than one occasion and for all his solidarity seemed to crumble at the biggest stage of them all. Especially since being team captain and all even that 5 is quite generous.
 
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Matra2

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Agreed. Vincent Kompany was responsible for the winning goal. His priority should've been ensuring Ronaldo did not get a clear shot on his right foot even if it meant giving Ronaldo a chance to shoot on his left foot which would've been at an angle on the left side of the penalty box. In the first half Ronaldo nearly scored on two occasions coming in from the left side of the box shooting with his right foot but Hart made a couple of good saves.
 

frederic38

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Agreed. Vincent Kompany was responsible for the winning goal. His priority should've been ensuring Ronaldo did not get a clear shot on his right foot even if it meant giving Ronaldo a chance to shoot on his left foot which would've been at an angle on the left side of the penalty box. In the first half Ronaldo nearly scored on two occasions coming in from the left side of the box shooting with his right foot but Hart made a couple of good saves.

here is one of the occasions you aree referring to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3JWfh8_C1I&feature=g-u-u#t=0m52s
kompany gets humiliated here, and great save by hart
then just after that on a shoot by ronaldo higuain deflects the ball and another save by heart
whithout such a good goalkeeper there would be 6 goals scored against them each match
kompany also did a bad foul at the end of the match on ronaldo: http://youtu.be/o3JWfh8_C1I?t=7m18s
 

frederic38

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today in the 2-2 draw between chelsea and juventus in champions league:

A poor pass in the defensive third of the field from John Obi Mikel gave possession back to Juventus. The midfielder then stood and sulked as Claudio Marchisio found Fabio Quagliarella running through the Chelsea defense, and the substitute pulled his side level.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1340576-chelsea-vs-juventus-score-highlights-and-grades

the way he was standing still after missing his pass was disgraceful:

[video=youtube_share;_-4JCqEXXnQ]http://youtu.be/_-4JCqEXXnQ[/video]

it's not the first time that obi mikel does this: http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...ders-2011-2012?p=232849&viewfull=1#post232849
what is even funnier is that like many african players he is suposed to be a playmaker but the top teams use him only as a defensive middlefielder - classic story ( http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...n-talent-trawl?p=253183&viewfull=1#post253183 ) yet he often gift the ball to the other team like this
 
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frederic38

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an owngoal in europa league by the black defender hutchinson:

[video=youtube_share;CVbgUa5lp2g]http://youtu.be/CVbgUa5lp2g[/video]

he's canadian, and he plays for PSV in holland
in the dutch eredevisie there seems to be quite a lot of american players (compared to other leagues)
 

Europe

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today in the 2-2 draw between chelsea and juventus in champions league:



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1340576-chelsea-vs-juventus-score-highlights-and-grades

the way he was standing still after missing his pass was disgraceful:

[video=youtube_share;iTaMWmQU-ZE]http://youtu.be/iTaMWmQU-ZE[/video]

it's not the first time that obi mikel does this: http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...ders-2011-2012?p=232849&viewfull=1#post232849
what is even funnier is that like many african players he is suposed to be a playmaker but the top teams use him only as a defensive middlefielder - classic story ( http://www.castefootball.us/forums/...n-talent-trawl?p=253183&viewfull=1#post253183 ) yet he often gift the ball to the other team like this

If you look at the 18 second mark Mikel just let the ball be passed right by him. He got out of the way of the pass. That's odd.

I can't figure out why he plays all the time. A few weeks ago the announcer during a Chelsea game was saying he doesn't do much and it just a workmanlike player, but then he backtracked and said that is what he is supposed to do. They can't get an English player to do that?



Look at the great skill of the black Juve player that kicked it right into Mikel.

I saw Essien started for Real against Man city.
 
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Matra2

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If you look at the 18 second mark Mikel just let the ball be passed right by him. He got out of the way of the pass. That's odd.

I can't figure out why he plays all the time. A few weeks ago the announcer during a Chelsea game was saying he doesn't do much and it just a workmanlike player, but then he backtracked and said that is what he is supposed to do. They can't get an English player to do that?



Look at the great skill of the black Juve player that kicked it right into Mikel.

I saw Essien started for Real against Man city.

Mikel was also the guy who gave the ball away to Juventus in the first place. It's funny how after he realises his mistake in letting the pass go through he puts his arm up to claim offside.:icon_lol: Incidentally, the commentator I was listening to seemed to suggest that John Terry was out of position and therefore at fault for the equalising goal. The same commentator said nothing about Mikel.
 

frederic38

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I can't figure out why he plays all the time. A few weeks ago the announcer during a Chelsea game was saying he doesn't do much and it just a workmanlike player, but then he backtracked and said that is what he is supposed to do. They can't get an English player to do that?



Look at the great skill of the black Juve player that kicked it right into Mikel.

I saw Essien started for Real against Man city.

look at the pattern in the 3 african players you mentionned: they all play in top european clubs
essien is mainly a defensive middlefielder and can play as fullback
mikel is a defensive midlefielder
asamoah (the black in juventus) is a defensive middlefielder and is used as fullback by juventus

it's so obvious that they are just on the team to have an african player
defensive middlefielder is typically the position where you could use a local player who could make up for his lack of skills with a bigger heart (that's why they put the african players in this position, except that the african players don't care about the club, and you can see on this video that mikel is clearly not a defensive player - he is a playmaker actually, but who would want an african play maker? no top european clubs would want an african play maker)

here is an article about mikel:

One of my greatest frustrations as a fan of African football has been seeing the way in which Mikel John Obi has been cruelly transformed from potential Zidane into Makelele-lite. Six years ago Mikel was one of the stars of the World Youth Championship. An elegant, nimble-footed creative midfielder always looking to play the ball forward, he guided Nigeria to the final and finished with the Silver Ball as the tournament’s second-best player, pipped at the post only by a certain Lionel Messi. At the time Mikel’s promise seemed virtually limitless. After my previous post it does perhaps seem a little disingenuous to argue that on the basis of a fantastic set of performances at a youth tournament the young midfielder was destined to blossom into one of the best of his generation in his position. However my grievance is very much based on the fact that throughout his career in England Mikel has not played in his genuine position. He has instead been shunted from the apex of the midfield to its base.

I am not convinced. I feel that Mikel was the victim of a tendency in European football over the past decade to look at footballers of African descent in purely physical terms. We see West Africa as the source of the genes of most top sprinters and heavyweight boxers and think therefore that that is where we must go if we want a player who is extremely quick, extremely strong, or both. Even reputable sources such as the BBC fall for such facile arguments.

you can read the rest here: http://luxuryplayer.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/mikel-john-obi-africas-misplaced-diamond/

obi mikel might be a very talented african player, but compared with european players (white players) and south americans he's nothing
so if he wants to play his best position, he should play in africa (there are clubs there, mainly in south africa and in northern africa)

by the way the comparison between mikel and zidane is very very funny, but he also mentions makelele because he was the first to create this trend of black defensive midlefielders, but as i told you in another thread, when he played in french ligue 1, makelele was an offensive middlefielder, kind of like zidane, but he started playing defensive midlefielder in spain

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by the way i was watching the juventus vs chelsea match with my brother but when we saw the black fullback playing for juventus look so poor (losing frequently the ball like in the video i posted, like you said) we stopped watching it

by the way here is another owngoal by a black player scored in premier league against arsenal last week:

[video=youtube_share;shoBPRH-9xg]http://youtu.be/shoBPRH-9xg[/video]
 
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